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Friday, April 6, 2012

SL Letter of the Day: Monogamous Week, Day 5

Posted by on Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 5:12 PM

I'm sure you'll be getting letters from monogamous couples that have been together for decades, but you look at relationships of all makes and ages, so why not share my story? I'm a 25 year old straight guy engaged to a 25 year old straight girl. We've been together for more than 5 years and have never cheated on each other as far as I know. (I trust her completely, but of course you can never be fully aware of someone else's life.)

While we've been monogamous, I feel confident saying that aspect of our love falls pretty low down the list of why we still work as a couple. I would list our senses of humor, friendship, mutual respect, and complimentary personalities as the main reasons we’ve been successful. We just get each other. When we first got together we were both pretty vanilla, and the concept of monogamy was just kind of a given—we wanted to date, so of course we would be monogamous. As time went by we explored sexual situations that were new to either one or both of us—handcuffs, blindfolds, role-playing, sex in public, and our most recent conquest, anal.

With our wedding date approaching, she asked me (after several glasses of wine) if I wanted the chance to sleep with another woman before getting married. I hadn’t given it much thought recently, but it bothers her that she slept with double the number of people that I had before we got together. I got over that minor detail in 2007. We have discussed the idea of threesomes before but we've never acted on them. I fantasize about being with her and another woman, she likes the idea of two men going to town on her. I honestly don’t expect a threesome offer to ever come our way, or come to much if one did, but I love the fact that it could. Still, monogamy has worked for us so far, but to paraphrase Prince, "[Marriage] means forever and that's a mighty long time." I feel relieved and inspired that as we move on to the next step, no door is closed and we’ll be able to discuss and explore our sexuality as it changes and matures.

Racy Intercourse, No Guilt

 

Comments (39) RSS

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balderdash 1
Yeah, these are still b... nah, you know what? Have a good weekend, everybody.
Posted by balderdash http://introverse.blogspot.com on April 6, 2012 at 5:40 PM
2
I want to be as nice and open-hearted as balderdash up there, but I can't be the only one whose alarm bells are set off by this letter. It kind of seems like one of those our-relationship-is-so-amazing! proclamations that tend to precede a nasty breakup.

Maybe reading too much Dan has made me overly jaded or superstitious. Still...

- They got together in their late teens... that's young...
- ...and after five years, she needed several glasses of wine in her to ask a question like that?
- he lists "sense of humor" and "complimentary personalities" at the top of the list of reasons for compatibility. That's romantic-comedy fodder, not real life - people change.

Seems like a lot of the stuff they're doing is just to be "adventurous" and "crazy". Ten to one he'll be one of those guys writing you six years in to say his wife used to be more adventurous back when she was up for some (gasp) ROLE-PLAYING.

OK, I'm definitely too jaded to be out in public today. RING, don't let me shit all over your beautiful relationship. May you have many happy years together.
Posted by dchari on April 6, 2012 at 6:09 PM
Lilliable 3
Isn't he sort of saying that non-monogamy isn't completely off the table as a possibility in the future? This seems to have been a theme in a lot of the pro-monogamy letters and, I would think, the opposite of what these letters were supposed to represent.
Posted by Lilliable on April 6, 2012 at 6:14 PM
4
Monogamish and monogamous success week has been great. At some point, probably not right away, but someday, it'd be cool to have polyamorous success week. (Monogamishness is not really the same thing as polyamory, since there is still emotional monogamy there.)

Successful poly stories might look a bit different than other success stories because they're not just about one relationship that has made it through. One person might describe themselves as successfully poly if they have a long term triad or quad. Another person might look at it as having had one or two long term relationships, while having had other transient relationships. Some might be single but consider their life to be an example of successful poly because they have enjoyed and learned from every relationship they've been in.
Posted by Brie on April 6, 2012 at 7:19 PM
Swell 5
Wow, boring.
Posted by Swell on April 6, 2012 at 7:36 PM
6
it does seem, if these letters are representative, that happily monogamous couples either are open to the possibility of becoming monogamish someday, and/or have matched, high libidos and great communication skills. i'm willing to bet there isn't a single convincing letter in dan's inbox that says, "my spouse and i have mismatched libidos, and we're both equally committed to and happy with monogamy for the rest of our lives."
Posted by martarose on April 6, 2012 at 7:41 PM
Fred Casely 7
I hope monogamy is less tedious to practice than it is to read about.
Posted by Fred Casely on April 6, 2012 at 7:44 PM
8
Ring,

Humor is a great cornerstone. Complimentary personalities are great. If I have any advice it is: expect change. Expect change in yourself and your partner (and everything else) and work to maintain intimacy; physical, mental, and emotional intimacy.

You're young, with the complete gauntlet most likely ahead of you. Check out day 4, #50 Brother Bob, not to be scared, but rather to be aware of the kind of things that can draw you apart, or weld you together. We've (my wife and I) been through most of that list, but most of it drove us together (the major exception being the inheritance and step mother relations debacle after my dad died). A good sense of humor can make all the difference.

Another suggestion would be to remain frugal: live within your budget AND live to have fun. Money problems (as mentioned on previous days) are killer, so don't be afraid to ask for advise and help in planning from people around you that know better.

Personally, I would take your SO's offer for sex with another, and plan a short sex break (vacation/getaway/standing order to kill anyone that bothers you for a couple of days while you live in bed) for the 2 of you, and fuck each other's brains out. You (both) may be on the monogamish side of things, but for now work with what you've got (woohoo!).

Peace.
Posted by Married in MA on April 6, 2012 at 7:58 PM
Noadi 9
@6 I don't know why you had to add the "high" to matched libido, I'm pretty sure matching that at any level (or at least being similar enough that the difference doesn't matter much) would be beneficial. I think the open communication though is the real important thing that nearly all the couples have mentioned. If you can't talk openly and honestly to your partner about things that matter then regardless of how closely matched you are on libido, interests, personalities, etc. your relationship is likely to end up in serious trouble.
Posted by Noadi http://noadi.net on April 6, 2012 at 10:30 PM
OutInBumF 10
@6- "my spouse and i have mismatched libidos, and we're both equally committed to and happy with monogamy for the rest of our lives."
You nailed my same thoughts all week with that statement. I agree there's not a one of those letters to Dan, or if there were, they did nothing to make monogamy sound desirable or successful.
Posted by OutInBumF on April 6, 2012 at 11:39 PM
11
I really don't think it makes anyone less monogamous to admit that they have considered am open relationship. Saying monogamy is what works for me and it's how I choose to live isn't negated by the realization that maybe someday things could be different. Admitting that someday things might change is an important part of choosing. Let's face it, monogamy is a choice. For many people like me it is the default position but the fact that I realize that I could one day be too ill to perform or find myself with some one is doesn't make me any less monogamous. Would I only fit the monogamous title if I say never ever open under any circumstances?
Posted by PenguinGirl on April 7, 2012 at 1:23 AM
12
It's complementary, not complimentary. Unless they spend their entire lives giving each other compliments.
Posted by Optimal Cynic on April 7, 2012 at 4:36 AM
13
@11 That's exactly what I've been trying to say in previous threads. Me and my boyfriend are happily monogamous, at the moment. We haven't always been monogamous, and we might not always be monogamous, we're keeping the dialogue going and are open to change in the future, but that doesn't mean we're not monogamous right now, and have been for the past three years.
Posted by Friendstastegood on April 7, 2012 at 5:27 AM
14
@12 Optimal,

You're correct, but it's best if it's both.

Sometimes when you don't get an error from autospell, your eyes just miss things.

Peace.

PS: it's funny complement (as in the biological system) also describes a non-self defense (system).
Posted by Married in MA on April 7, 2012 at 5:57 AM
jenniferjane 15
Who has sex in public before trying anal? Is it just me or does anal seem like the bridge to sex in public, not the other way around? Or, differently put: a more natural/less risky thing to try first? Wow, 25 is young...
Posted by jenniferjane http://morningbikeporn.blogspot.com/ on April 7, 2012 at 7:09 AM
16
@15 Yeah, that thing about "conquering" anal jumped out at me as well.
Posted by sadini on April 7, 2012 at 7:22 AM
17
This is a subject that gets discussed a lot on other boards I frequent, and the letters run here this week don't reflect at all what I'm hearing there. For most of those people (a very different group than Dan's readers) monogamy is about commitment, and the very idea of opening up the relationship would constitute betrayal. Just *talking* about it would be devastating enough to shake the marriage. The vast majority of those people can't even think about the idea of sex outside a committed relationship. A recent discussion about porn had roughly a 50/50 split on whether it constituted betrayal.

Thing is, most of them are in long term - 20+ year - marriages, and they are happy. I've been chatting with many of them online for years, and I don't think many of them are lying - over the years we've admitted worse things to each other than a little stray thought. Now, most of them are women, and we don't hear from their husbands, so there's that. But there does seem to be a large pool of happily monogamous couples out there who are doing fine with it, who would find, not comfort in the idea of possibly opening the relationship somewhere down the line, but threat. Didn't Dan get any letters from any of them?
Posted by agony on April 7, 2012 at 7:30 AM
18
@17--Dan probably gets letters from their husbands that fit his regular theme. 'I'm in a long-term relationship, I love my wife, but...'
Posted by Beth on April 7, 2012 at 8:58 AM
Helenka (also a Canuck) 19
We're been together for more than 5 years and have never cheated on each other as far as I know. (I trust her completely, but of course you can never be fully aware of someone else's life.)
This less than ringing endorsement is setting off some different (warning) bells for me.

His concept of monogamy is entirely based on assumption. "AFAIK" ... really? The LW is so unenthusiastic about the relationship and yet the progression of their sex life seems intended to incite awe and compliments. Wow, just imagine: all the way to anal sex in five years!

I may not have been bored before, but this letter did me in.
Posted by Helenka (also a Canuck) on April 7, 2012 at 9:59 AM
20
@6 wrote, "i'm willing to bet there isn't a single convincing letter in dan's inbox that says, "my spouse and i have mismatched libidos, and we're both equally committed to and happy with monogamy for the rest of our lives."

I've never written to Dan Savage, I imagine most of us happy with our relationships do not, but that describes my spouse and I.

Over the course of 25 years, we've worked it out. It's just part and parcel of being us. At first we both had sky high libidos but mine has gone down with the birth of our child and then a chronic illness.

We talk about it, we try different things, we get mad and sad and sick to death of talking about it and trying different things. But we keep going, together, just the two of us...equally committed to and happy with monogamy.
Posted by Sailoreic on April 7, 2012 at 12:07 PM
21
@19 Helenka,

Don't forget some people will never get to anal (At least amongst the monogamy only types).

Peace.
Posted by Married in MA on April 7, 2012 at 12:37 PM
22
I think this letter was just run so Dan can get his jollies. Otherwise, it's just a poster child argument for " you are just way the fuck too young, and also, please don't get married."
Posted by SaraJean12 on April 8, 2012 at 12:12 AM
23
Does anyone find these useless stories dumb as fuck? I mean Dan I know you have a lot going on but either DO your column or DON'T do your column. Who the fuck cares about people's success stories in relationships? There's a specific reason the greatest books on earth don't end "and so we're open to anything and communicate great, our life will be happy together since we work so well"
Posted by anal smith on April 8, 2012 at 8:21 AM
24
And anyone who commented on this with anything but, 'who the fuck cares' is an asshole.

me too, me too
Posted by anal smith on April 8, 2012 at 8:22 AM
GhostDog 25
I expect at the end of one of these letters to see a note from Dan.

"Are you not entertained!?!?"
Posted by GhostDog on April 8, 2012 at 10:33 AM
26
Y'all are MEAN today. Why shit all over someone else's happiness, even if it seems boring to you? I mean, I don't like pepperoni pizza, but you're welcome to it.

@2: I met my husband in my late teens, and we're still going strong 15+ years later. It's rare but it happens.

@15: Some people just have more trouble with anal than others. I've heard friends describe it as "just sliding in" when they get excited enough, whereas for me it took over 10 tries and a lot of work. I definitely would have used the word "conquered" to describe anal after the first time we achieved full penetration. It's a good word to describe a challenging situation.
Posted by jeccat on April 8, 2012 at 10:50 AM
27
@2 "It kind of seems like one of those our-relationship-is-so-amazing! proclamations that tend to precede a nasty breakup."

Um, that's what I tend to think about those couples who write in and say, "We have sex with other people but that's NEVER going to mess us up!" Nonmonogomous marriage seems like playing with fire, and it doesn't seem possible that people could do it without jealousy causing serious problems. But I keep my ears open. If I'm right, then sooner or later we'll hear about this kind of crash and burn.

Sure, these two twenty-five year olds might self-destruct six years in. Or they might be the two eighty-year-olds writing to sex columnists in 2067 about how great things have worked out.
Posted by DRF on April 8, 2012 at 6:59 PM
shurenka 28
@24
Well I'll oblige... Who the fuck cares? If you don't like it, don't read it.

@1
Find it boring? Don't read it. "Monogamous Week" is in the title. Avoid those posts if you must. Also, every happy relationship is boring. Would you really find it that much better if these stories included the sentence "And sometimes we fuck other people"?
Posted by shurenka on April 9, 2012 at 1:36 AM
shurenka 29
@6

These letters certainly aren't representative. There's an obvious sampling bias. I don't think it's that mindblowing to think there are some people out there who are monogamous for monogamy's sake -- people who prioritize stability or their religious/secular values over their sex lives, even if their libidos are mismatched. People who can go without, or make do with masturbation. Those people are probably older and/or more conservative though, and less likely to read (let alone write in to) a sex advice column written by someone who is openly gay.

The sorts of monogamists who read SL are more likely to be socially liberal -- more likely to entertain quasi-monogamish activities like watching strippers, flirting with other people, or talking about threesomes.

I too have complained that those sorts of people aren't really monogamous in the traditional sense. But it just comes down to a difference of definitions -- does monogamy refer only to how many sex partners you have, or to how many you're willing to have, theoretically, if you could?
Posted by shurenka on April 9, 2012 at 1:52 AM
samanthaf63 30
They're a little young yet to judge much. Stay together 10 or 15 years and then tell me you're still monogamous and then I'll appreciate it more.
Posted by samanthaf63 on April 9, 2012 at 5:33 AM
AFinch 31
Gah...yeah, well, I don't find these boring and I have enjoyed reading them - whether or not they are representative (a non-selective sample).

While I think a lot of people who really aren't capable of happy monogamy might feel these are some kind of invalidating demonstration proof (see, hon, you should be able to go without satisfying sex and remain faithful, all these people do), I think that really misses the point.

A lot of these people were open to having an interesting, varied and mutually satisfying sexual relationship. I think GGG goes a long, long way. If it's ok to tell your partner you're hot/excited for so-and-so (not your partner) and then go home and take out your excitement on your partner, it goes a long way to diffusing the 'itch'. Talking about threesomes, sharing porn, etc, all are a way of including 'other' and variety into a monogamous sex life. This kind of relief valve seems to me to be key. It's not "I'm all you'll ever get and should be enough". Plus, the beauty of a fantasy life like that is the second you've orgasmed, the inconvenient 3rd just magically disappears: poof!
Posted by AFinch on April 9, 2012 at 8:21 AM
32
@29 is right. The sort of people who get a kick out of traditional monogamy (or who like/respect the idea of it enough to do it for years on end) are not the sort of people who are likely to read Mr. Savage's column. For this reason, we're more likely to see de facto monogamists writing in.

@31 Heh heh! This column is where I first read the expression "Work up an appetite but come home for dinner," but I'd like to add the following corollary: "You're less likely to get parasites."
Posted by DRF on April 9, 2012 at 8:57 AM
kim in portland 33
You all could be surprised by the number of monogamous readers that Dan has. In my own life all the Savage Love readers that I know are monogamous couples, myself included. We might just be a rather quiet bunch when it comes to discussing our feelings about monogamy. Personally I don't see the purpose. First, because today's society sees it as default and thus it doesn't need acknowledgement, praise.... Second, monogamy is viewed as boring by a good number of vocal commenters here. Third, a good number of you cling to the idea that you have the "right" or "traditional" definition of what a monogamous relationship looks like or what activities are permissible. Very Focus on the Family-eque. Sigh. Fourth, a good number of you cling to the idea that certain number of years is required. I guess some would think my 18 years is a good number, or Married in MA's 25 years, but what are we compared to my grandparents making 67 years? What about those who are monogamous when in a relationship, but don't wish to a have decade long LTR? I will say in my life that all those monogamous couples that I know who read Dan's column all share a common love of sex, a fascination with sexual expression within humanity, a desire to be educated, a liberal voting record, and enjoy other articles and features in the print version of the Portland Mercury. Hence, you don't find them commenting on threads.

Take care you all. And, try to think and stay out of the box or you might miss all the beautiful variety that surrounds you. Your "right" way is tailored just for you. As always, toss my $0.02 as you wish. Opinions are like hearts and we all have our own.
Posted by kim in portland http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/fast-paced_video_provides_a_fu.html on April 9, 2012 at 10:59 AM
kim in portland 34
I should say that I understand why stories of content individuals can generate a lack of interest to others. Especially as Dan is an advice columnist. While we can gather advice from those who are content, we tend to learn more from those who are not content.. First, because we may share their question, but have not found the time or courage to ask. Second, because a sadder side of our shared humanity finds comfort or entertainment in the drama of others. Or, maybe I completely misunderstand why people watch daytime and nighttime soap operas and reality tee vee?

Kind regards.
Posted by kim in portland http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/fast-paced_video_provides_a_fu.html on April 9, 2012 at 11:20 AM
35
@33 "What about those who are monogamous when in a relationship, but don't wish to a have decade long LTR?"

They're called "serial monogamists."

I find that "traditional monogamy" is a good name for relationships in which both parties believe that they have a moral obligation not to have sex with other people or who otherwise categorically reject nonmonogamy. This sets it apart from the relationships of the people who've written in this past week, who mostly said they were fine with going monogamish in theory but never happened to have done so. The term is clear and easy to understand and the word "traditional" has no inherent connotation as to whether the tradition is good or bad.
Posted by DRF on April 9, 2012 at 11:38 AM
kim in portland 36
Okay @ 35,

But there were at least one or two letters and thread comments where there was no mention of going monogamish, but never got around to it. Indeed there was mention of exploring kinks and porn, though. And, there was often mention of regular communication between the couples. I guess I know a good number of monogamous couples, who feel monogamy is a moral obligation and also watch porn, read erotica, and explore their kinks, et cetera. Some are even religious. All read Dan Savage.

And, it is only my opinion, but a serial monogamist can still be excellent at monogamy during the length of the relationship.

Lastly, I'm just inclined to let people define their own relationships, and hence a couple who enjoys restraining each other or missionary only on Fridays at 10:00 can call themselves "traditionally monogamous"
if they are only engaging in sex with each other. You can disagree, though. I'm just not inclined to like the word "traditional" and that is my issue. We just see it linked to imply good or superior these days. Just my $0.02, toss at will.

Have a good day.
Posted by kim in portland http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/fast-paced_video_provides_a_fu.html on April 9, 2012 at 12:55 PM
37
@1, @3, the whole premise of the week seems a tad flawed, in that this is not "happily monogamous" week, but "happily monogamous regular readers of Savage Love" week.

The latter is a highly skewed sample of the former. (Probably for better rather than worse, but non-typical.) Assuming or implying that the experiences of successfully monogamous Savage Love readers have anything to say about the /typical/ successfully-monogamous relationship in the US (or wherever) is a little suspect.
Posted by Ancient Sumerian on April 9, 2012 at 1:17 PM
38
@36 You will notice that your example of a traditionally monogamous couple does not conflict with the one I provided.

I do not consider serial monogamy to be traditional monogamy when the serial aspect is intentional.
Posted by DRF on April 9, 2012 at 4:48 PM
39
@37

Pedantic much? Dan is writing a column not conducting a statistical study. OF COURSE the LWs are readers! Why else would they write in? This sort of nitpicking is ridiculous. These letters are not supposed to represent all monogamous couples. They're just a slice of monogamous life to remind SL readers that there are lots of happy monogamous couples out there.
Posted by ML77 on April 11, 2012 at 10:47 PM

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