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News & ArtsThursday, March 8, 2012
Celeb / Film Johnny Depp as Tonto: How Racist Is That?
Posted by Paul Constant on Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 10:12 AM
This morning, Hollywood Superproducer™ Jerry Bruckheimer tweeted the first official photo from the Lone Ranger movie he's producing for next year. The professional quality of the photograph indicates that they're already pretty far into production. Armie Hammer as the Lone Ranger looks pretty decent—your standard, square-jawed cowboy hero. But what I want to talk about is Johnny Depp as Tonto:
- Click to enlarge.
Johnny Depp has said that with his performance as Tonto, he wants to single-handedly fix the way Native Americans have been represented in American film. To which I politely reply: Shouldn't a Native American actor be the one who fixes the way Native Americans have been represented in film? It's okay, Depp says, because "I guess I have some Native American (in me) somewhere down the line. My great grandmother was quite a bit of Native American, she grew up Cherokee or maybe Creek Indian." I'm just not sure about this. Isn't it basically red-face? Would Al Jolson's "Mammy" routine have been okay if he was one-sixteenth African-American? What do you think?
3
Billy Crystal was not being racist. He does an imitation of a specific person not some generic, hateful caricature of African Americans. The routine is about the personality not skin color. Get over it. Anyway, the whole human race is of African descent.
4
Why does it have to be termed racist, why can’t it just be in bad form? Not knowing what Depp can bring to the character that another actor can’t, I guess I have no place to say (like that’s stopped anyone on the internet before).
But keep in mind: the nature of acting is inhabiting a character, a chance to be a different person. There are some actors who are themselves in every role and you watch and think, “oh, that’s Jack pretending to have ocd” or, “that’s Jack pretending to be a funny guy.” And some actors that inhabit a character so fully that you can forget them in favor of the character. So, why can’t a white man play the role of a native American? Of course, why can’t a native American play the role of Lone Ranger?
But keep in mind: the nature of acting is inhabiting a character, a chance to be a different person. There are some actors who are themselves in every role and you watch and think, “oh, that’s Jack pretending to have ocd” or, “that’s Jack pretending to be a funny guy.” And some actors that inhabit a character so fully that you can forget them in favor of the character. So, why can’t a white man play the role of a native American? Of course, why can’t a native American play the role of Lone Ranger?
8
I wish there was a way that anyone who mentions "Cherokee" or "Creek" when talking about their supposed "Native American" ancestry that they have absolutely no evidence of would be instantly struck by lightning and killed. That would be funny.
So, I wonder what kind of Indian Tonto is supposed to be here. In the original radio series, he was said to be Potawatami, but couldn't have been -- wrong area(Texas, not Michigan), wrong costume. But Depp's getup looks like it was inspired by this painting: http://kirbysattler.sattlerartprint.com/ which says only "I am Crow", but it's not a traditional Crow headdress, unless Tonto is supposed to be a shaman, which seems unlikely.
Why is it that Indian culture is still considered fair game to just make shit up, smear on some paint, babble some nonsense about the Great Spirit, and call it good? So "ethnic". So "multicultural".
So, I wonder what kind of Indian Tonto is supposed to be here. In the original radio series, he was said to be Potawatami, but couldn't have been -- wrong area(Texas, not Michigan), wrong costume. But Depp's getup looks like it was inspired by this painting: http://kirbysattler.sattlerartprint.com/ which says only "I am Crow", but it's not a traditional Crow headdress, unless Tonto is supposed to be a shaman, which seems unlikely.
Why is it that Indian culture is still considered fair game to just make shit up, smear on some paint, babble some nonsense about the Great Spirit, and call it good? So "ethnic". So "multicultural".
9
I don't know about racist. It depends on how he acts, and hammy stereotypical behavior would be racist no matter who the actor doing it is. It does seem pretty dumb, though; this is a decision that came from a board room and nowhere else.
10
Paul Mooney's hilarious take:
"Tom Cruise as 'The Last Samurai'? Here's a movie idea for you: 'The Last N* in America' starring Tom Hanks."
"Tom Cruise as 'The Last Samurai'? Here's a movie idea for you: 'The Last N* in America' starring Tom Hanks."
11
How about adding this option: anyone who thinks one can make such a judgment based on no input other than "Johnny Depp is going to play Tonto in a movie" is a fucking moron who is probably salivating over the prospect of stirring up a phony racism issue because he secretly wants to undermine the entire concept of racial sensitivity by taking it to such an absurd level it invites ridicule from the right wing. Or if that's too long, how about just "please shut the fuck up."
12
You forgot the option:
Is there really anyone alive who actually wants to see a Lone Ranger movie at all?!?
(That doesn't have to use a walker to get to the theater, that is)
Is there really anyone alive who actually wants to see a Lone Ranger movie at all?!?
(That doesn't have to use a walker to get to the theater, that is)
13
Given the sensitivity Bruckheimer has shown to race in past films, I am pretty confident that this is is racist, no matter how much I like and respect Depp as an actor.
Widening the scope, I think that the past shows two extremely big hurdles for this to clear, the first one being the Western and it's traditions of casting white men as caricatures and heels of Indians, and the other being the problematic nature of the character of Tonto.
Careful writing may be able to resolve this, but I expect that they'll simply try to distract from this with more explosions.
Widening the scope, I think that the past shows two extremely big hurdles for this to clear, the first one being the Western and it's traditions of casting white men as caricatures and heels of Indians, and the other being the problematic nature of the character of Tonto.
Careful writing may be able to resolve this, but I expect that they'll simply try to distract from this with more explosions.
14
@11: Oh fuck off. It isn't as though there are no Native American actors who could have played this role. It's not phony; it is a serious problem that it is still acceptable to cast a white person to play an iconic Native American character. (Though I'd note they managed to cast this correctly in the 1950's, with Jay Silverheels).
If only Bruckheimer had access to Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nat…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Fir…
I'd have gone with Adam Beach, myself.
If only Bruckheimer had access to Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nat…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Fir…
I'd have gone with Adam Beach, myself.
16
I think that if you're going to claim Indian ancestry via a grandparent, you should probably at least know what tribe.
17
More lame than racist. No wonder Hollywood is Box Office returns are tanking. How about they do something original?
19
@3 "Billy Crystal was not being racist."
I agree, I really annoying the way Reddit, Gawker and now The Stranger portray this as racist.
That being said, I think a Native American should portray Tonto, but honestly this movie is going to bomb.
I agree, I really annoying the way Reddit, Gawker and now The Stranger portray this as racist.
That being said, I think a Native American should portray Tonto, but honestly this movie is going to bomb.
20
@ 8 is right. My sister is married to a man who is half Lakota, and the joke in his family is that every white person has a Cherokee grandma. (Probably great great grandma now - have to adjust for the new generations.)
In the same spirit, my wife used to have a coworker in Seattle who would do sweat lodges and the like, and who claimed that his totem animal was a unicorn. Yeah.
In the same spirit, my wife used to have a coworker in Seattle who would do sweat lodges and the like, and who claimed that his totem animal was a unicorn. Yeah.
21
As far as the issue of a white person playing a Native American, I'd say this is kind of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" position. It's not like Tonto wasn't a one dimensional caricature. Remember when African Americans complained about how they always played servants or street thugs instead of more dignified roles?
22
@14, Adam Beach would be perfect, so long as the theater owners don't mind if I masturbate during each showing.
23
Gary Farmer is too old and round for the part, how many other decent Native American actors are there? Seriously, it's a small population to draw on, motherfucking Smoke Signals cast a Japanese guy in a lead role.
That said: Bruckheimer? That's not a good sign.
That said: Bruckheimer? That's not a good sign.
25
@21 - Look at Seth Rogan's Green Hornet for the solution to that quandary. Making Kato more than just the driver goes a long way.
(and yes, I know Kato was always somewhat capable--he was still expressly the sidekick)
(and yes, I know Kato was always somewhat capable--he was still expressly the sidekick)
26
I have Lenni-Lenape heritage. My sister is marrying a guy with Cherokee heritage on both his mother's and his father's sides. However, since we've all got blue eyes, light skin and freckles we just generally go with "we're white". Or sometimes I go with "I'm Polish and Irish". Neither option is the whole truth but it works well enough.
I like Depp; I think he's a good actor and thought it was well known that he had some NA heritage. But, really, would it have been so difficult to cast a Native American in the role?
I like Depp; I think he's a good actor and thought it was well known that he had some NA heritage. But, really, would it have been so difficult to cast a Native American in the role?
27
@ 25, the issue with Tonto wasn't that he was "just" a sidekick - he committed heroic deeds in all permutations of the story - but that he speaks an extremely stilted pidgin. Also, they can't figure out how to portray him as a member on any specific tribe - probably because they're too lazy to care, and also more willing to play up to stereotypes instead of challenging audiences with authenticity.
Also, giving a longtime, well known stereotype like Tonto a better portrayal, in the name of making up for past caricatures, is dicey. Without a good script, they could easily take it too far and come up with something just as overwrought.
Knowing Depp, he can bring the skill necessary to make Tonto a good, memorable character, but his acting is only one facet to the role.
Also, giving a longtime, well known stereotype like Tonto a better portrayal, in the name of making up for past caricatures, is dicey. Without a good script, they could easily take it too far and come up with something just as overwrought.
Knowing Depp, he can bring the skill necessary to make Tonto a good, memorable character, but his acting is only one facet to the role.
28
The picture posted makes him look like Busta Rhymes in his "Put All Your Hands Where My Eyes Can See" video.
29
Given all the work that Johnny Depp has done over the years to advance positive images of Native Americans, how can this not be appropriate?
32
It's interesting that "racist" has become such a horrific and terrible word that it can never be used to describe anything but the Klu Klux Klan in full white hood mode. It's become the ultimate insult, like Nazi.
I guess that's a sign of progress and all, but it does make the word a lot less useful. I guess we need a new non-worst-thing-ever-in-the-world-to-even-mention to describe stuff that's insentive to people of other races.
Like a priviledged white guy saying he's going to single-handedly fix the way Native Americans have been represented in film.
By the way, I'm an American white guy who doesn't have a single drop of Native American blood (as far as I know). I think there must be about three of us. Maybe we should form a club or something.
I guess that's a sign of progress and all, but it does make the word a lot less useful. I guess we need a new non-worst-thing-ever-in-the-world-to-even-mention to describe stuff that's insentive to people of other races.
Like a priviledged white guy saying he's going to single-handedly fix the way Native Americans have been represented in film.
By the way, I'm an American white guy who doesn't have a single drop of Native American blood (as far as I know). I think there must be about three of us. Maybe we should form a club or something.
34
lol. Ok, Jerry, you can make your movie, but rather than a huge star, you're going to have to cast one of these 15 male native american actors to appease the ninnies. Ok, in all fairness, several of them are dead and most of them are over 50. So you really have about three C-list actors to choose from. But it's a small price to pay to make sure that instead of calling the casting racist, they can concentrate on calling the character racist. I mean, come on, it's fuckin' Tonto after all. Good luck!
35
Well don't get me started. I'm still fuming over Tony Curtis and Jack Lemmon playing those two feminists in Some Like It Hot.
36
@34, I'll try and explain this again using small words so you can understand. It's not racist just because a white actor is playing an Indian. It's racist because it's Tonto, and it's racist because Depp says "I will fix racism here". It's racist because it explicitly retails a number of stereotypes about Indians.
Oh crap, "explicitly" and "stereotypes" are going to give you trouble, aren't they?
Johnny Depp is not qualified to make statements on behalf of Indians, and there is a zero percent chance that he will portray his Indian character intelligently and correctly. He's off to a bad start already with his statements so far, and the very fact of the Lone Ranger story is implicitly racist; the Lone Ranger was a captain of genocide, after all.
Oh crap, "explicitly" and "stereotypes" are going to give you trouble, aren't they?
Johnny Depp is not qualified to make statements on behalf of Indians, and there is a zero percent chance that he will portray his Indian character intelligently and correctly. He's off to a bad start already with his statements so far, and the very fact of the Lone Ranger story is implicitly racist; the Lone Ranger was a captain of genocide, after all.
37
I just can't believe that in this day in age we're still dealing with whitewashed characters in movies. I first noticed this when they blatantly made all the main characters of 21 white instead of Asian, and then again in The Last Airbender when an entirely Asian/Inuit cast was turned white for the movie. Now we have a Katniss in Hunger Games who is no longer olive skinned, and Johnny Depp playing a very prominent Native American role. It's just sad...
I know why they do it- studios are afraid they'll alienate racist middle America if they don't whitewash main characters- and after seeing the backlash to casting Idris Elba in Thor, I have to say they're probably right.
I know why they do it- studios are afraid they'll alienate racist middle America if they don't whitewash main characters- and after seeing the backlash to casting Idris Elba in Thor, I have to say they're probably right.
38
@34 Have you ever stopped to consider why there are no A-List Native American in the first place..?
39
Guys, it's Hollywood. Depp sells more tickets than any outrage over cross-ethnic casting will ever, ever cost.
If you think any other consideration went into this casting decision, you're delusional.
If you think any other consideration went into this casting decision, you're delusional.
40
I'm more offended that this will be directed by Jerry fucking Bruckheimer than I am by Depp as Tonto. Because really, what the Lone Ranger needs is more explosions and cut-up fight choreography.
41
I don't like the image, but if any actor can bring an outdated, already disingenuous character like Tonto into a multi-dimentioned one, it would be Depp. That being said, this is going to be a terrible movie anyway. One more example of Hollywood/Disney trying to make money off of a dead concept. Who are they appealing to here?
42
Anything that comes out of Johnny Depp's—a man of nearly 50 years—mouth should be carefully weighed against the amount of superfluous accessorizing he does.
43
Hurrah, Native Appropriations already has a post up about this. Please refer to http://nativeappropriations.blogspot.com… for a more eloquent explanation of why this kind of generic representation of Native Americans is problematic and yes, even racist.
47
"With sensitivity of course, but acting should never be exclusive to the actor's race. "
@18 that might fly if there were a long rich history of native americans represented fairly in film and played by native americans and this movie was the exception.
@18 that might fly if there were a long rich history of native americans represented fairly in film and played by native americans and this movie was the exception.
48
As a person of Native American ancestry, I'd like to request that you get off my land with your BS, PC, relentless pot-stirring and borderline fetishist finger-pointing nonsense.
49
There are two issues at play here which should be addressed:
1) The idea that someone of "race" A can/cannot play character of "race" B. The idea of Johnny Depp playing a Native American character is no different than the majority of the the Japanese characters in Memoirs of a Geisha being portrayed by Chinese and Korean actors. Most Americans I talked to about this saw no difference because, after all, all Asians look alike, right? But if you speak to (or know anything about Chinese-Japanese history & relations) you will know that the Chinese and Japanese people would disagree.
2) Johnny Depp (white guy #4562) is going to solve all the problems of the Native Americans. Do I really need to go into this?
1) The idea that someone of "race" A can/cannot play character of "race" B. The idea of Johnny Depp playing a Native American character is no different than the majority of the the Japanese characters in Memoirs of a Geisha being portrayed by Chinese and Korean actors. Most Americans I talked to about this saw no difference because, after all, all Asians look alike, right? But if you speak to (or know anything about Chinese-Japanese history & relations) you will know that the Chinese and Japanese people would disagree.
2) Johnny Depp (white guy #4562) is going to solve all the problems of the Native Americans. Do I really need to go into this?
51
I wonder what the percentage is of the people who get worked up about this kind of thing who still go to see the dumb movie?
Hollywood does this for one reason and one reason only. Money. As long as the majority of the movie going public is of X demographic group Hollywood will not take risks casting no-name actors of minority ethnicity when they can cast a big name actor of X demographic.
When people stop paying to see such ridiculous cultural distortions and demonstrate they can actually accept subtlety and complexity then Hollywood will stop doing stupid shit like this.
Hollywood does this for one reason and one reason only. Money. As long as the majority of the movie going public is of X demographic group Hollywood will not take risks casting no-name actors of minority ethnicity when they can cast a big name actor of X demographic.
When people stop paying to see such ridiculous cultural distortions and demonstrate they can actually accept subtlety and complexity then Hollywood will stop doing stupid shit like this.
52
The character of Tonto is pretty racist to begin with, so casting a clown to play him really only ups the racism game.
And yeah, blackface at the Oscars was racist as all get-out. You don't need to intend to commit a hateful or violent act to do something that's wildly offensive, like, say, wearing blackface at an entertainment event in a country with a history of fucking minstrel shows, you racist fuck.
And yeah, blackface at the Oscars was racist as all get-out. You don't need to intend to commit a hateful or violent act to do something that's wildly offensive, like, say, wearing blackface at an entertainment event in a country with a history of fucking minstrel shows, you racist fuck.
55
Johnny Depp, like myself, is part Native.
So, quite frankly, it's not racist as all.
Stick either of us in a desert area for a few months and you'll notice we tan more than most people, even if we look white normally.
You should see my dad - his Native American heritage shows up as he gets older.
So, quite frankly, it's not racist as all.
Stick either of us in a desert area for a few months and you'll notice we tan more than most people, even if we look white normally.
You should see my dad - his Native American heritage shows up as he gets older.
56
I have to agree with @47.
The vast majority of characters in most movies could be any race, any ethnic background, and including Native American actors in a wide variety of roles, whether they are "the lead" or not, is certainly an option. It pretty much doesn't happen.
So, here's an iconic Native American character, possibly THE iconic Native American movie character, and the choice is made not to cast an actual Native American.
I imagine that Meryl Streep could play a kick-ass Rosa Parks, because the woman can do anything. But why would you cast it that way?
I suppose if all the available Native American actors were busy with other roles, sure. Or if they ran the script past them and they all passed on it (THAT I would believe!)
The vast majority of characters in most movies could be any race, any ethnic background, and including Native American actors in a wide variety of roles, whether they are "the lead" or not, is certainly an option. It pretty much doesn't happen.
So, here's an iconic Native American character, possibly THE iconic Native American movie character, and the choice is made not to cast an actual Native American.
I imagine that Meryl Streep could play a kick-ass Rosa Parks, because the woman can do anything. But why would you cast it that way?
I suppose if all the available Native American actors were busy with other roles, sure. Or if they ran the script past them and they all passed on it (THAT I would believe!)
57
@55, oh, great fucking clumps of shit on a stick.
You can tell you're "part Native" because you TAN MORE?
You are truly Captain Facepalm Forever.
You can tell you're "part Native" because you TAN MORE?
You are truly Captain Facepalm Forever.
58
I'm still pissed they didn't use gay actors in Brokeback Mountain. Harvey Fierstein and Nathan Lane were born for those parts.
59
Jesus Christ Fnarf. Do you even listen to yourself? You are such a gasbag it is a wonder your whole residence doesn't go up like the Hindenburg. I bet every time you talk you sound like a balloon deflating.
60
@ Will in Seattle, there is a difference between having vague, rumored Native ancestry and actually identifying as Native, having Native culture and being identified by others as Native. If I said my great-grandfather was Scottish, but didn't identify myself as a Scot or have anything to do with Scottish culture, other people wouldn't accept me as the last word on all things Scottish and I sure as hell wouldn't try to stand up as the Last of the Scots.
And being able to get a tan has shitall to do with being Native. You could be 1/8 Latino, Italian, Arab, etc. and the other 7/8 pasty Caucasian and get a damn tan. Melanin does not equal race.
And being able to get a tan has shitall to do with being Native. You could be 1/8 Latino, Italian, Arab, etc. and the other 7/8 pasty Caucasian and get a damn tan. Melanin does not equal race.
61
My last comment was before Fnarf shit on WiS. Please continue with that good work sir. WiS is light-years worse than anybody else.
62
@56 Likewise, why did they cast Meryl Streep as Margaet Thatcher when there are so many talented English actors available? Because she's fucking brilliant and she sells tickets.
63
You can tell you're "part Native" because you TAN MORE?
LOL.
My wife is 1/2 Cree. I am, as far as I know, white as the driven snow. I tan about 4 shades darker than she ever does. Genes are funny like that.
LOL.
My wife is 1/2 Cree. I am, as far as I know, white as the driven snow. I tan about 4 shades darker than she ever does. Genes are funny like that.
65
In my opinion, this should be either called racist or not racist depending on the director's thoughts, not Depp's. The director chose Depp for this part and Depp accepted a role in a movie. Maybe the director heard that Depp was part native and thought it might be fitting to use him since he is a good actor. Or maybe the director didn't feel like letting a real native take credit or get a lot of money. I'm not saying it's not racist, but if it is racist, it's not Depp's fault, he's just getting paid.
66
Oh, and for the record, the story in our family was always that my Grandpa had "some Indian blood", and that's why none of us can grow a decent beard. It's certainly possible; I've traced my genealogy back a long ways, but I know very little about the Thornton men in particular before my great-great-grandfather. I know an incredible amount about his chronic diarrhea brought about by his Civil War service, but not much about his parentage.
The point being, if you don't know anything, you can't claim anything.
The point being, if you don't know anything, you can't claim anything.
67
@66, Well I know that I have NA heritage, though you'd never, ever know looking at me. But my brothers don't blame their inability to grow beards, or general lack of body hair, on our NA heritage. Because we know it comes directly down the line from our Polish family. Go fucking figure.
68
i was thinking the makeup was a holdover from his time spent in jim jarmuch's 'dead man'..and maybe that's where he gets some of his lack of hubris from.. but really.. johnny depp as tonto ? after 3 jack sparrows ( or was it 4 , i lost count ), hunter s thompson ( in that other movie not the ' fear and loathing' one) and sweeney tood ?
..nope..
..nope..
69
@41: "if any actor can bring an outdated, already disingenuous character like Tonto into a multi-dimentioned one, it would be Depp"
If he actually cared about the concept, he would've turned down the role and given it to someone more deserving.
If he actually cared about the concept, he would've turned down the role and given it to someone more deserving.
70
Where's Sherman Alexie when we need him? He'd clean this shit up pronto, like Tonto! I think he'd play a good Tonto too.
71
@30- Oh, my memory had completely failed me. I thought the guy who played Thomas was Japanese... Perhaps I should check things before posting them on the internet.
Nah. Then you wouldn't get to correct me.
Nah. Then you wouldn't get to correct me.
72
I certainly don't think the casting of Depp is racist. Gentile actors play Jews. Gay actors play straight. As mentioned above with Memoirs of a Geisha, Chinese actors play Japanese. The question in terms of casting types is whether the actor can convincingly look the part he is playing. That's why the "Meryl Streep doesn't play Rosa Parks" argument doesn't hold up...Meryl Streep is far too light skinned to convincingly portray Rosa Parks. Johnny Depp, on the other hand, looks Native enough to convincingly portray it (in my opinion). That's not to say that they shouldn't have cast an actually-Native actor (they should have), but the casting in and of itself isn't racist.
Now, Johnny Depp saying that he plans to single-handedly fix how Native Americans are portrayed in cinema is...if not racist, definitely insensitive.
Now, Johnny Depp saying that he plans to single-handedly fix how Native Americans are portrayed in cinema is...if not racist, definitely insensitive.
73
it's art; not a PSA. the creators shouldn't give a shit who's offended. not to mention; anyone who is feeble minded enough to take offense at these sorts of things if a fucking retard.
74
Who the hell expects anything more from Hollywood? I guess the same people who take the oscars seriously. As others have commented, it is a simple, financial decision.
- This movie staring an unknown native actor as Tonto = boring/stupid old cowboy movie than nobody notices
or
- This movie staring Johnny Depp = "Johnny Depp vehicle"
Hm, which one are they going to choose?
- This movie staring an unknown native actor as Tonto = boring/stupid old cowboy movie than nobody notices
or
- This movie staring Johnny Depp = "Johnny Depp vehicle"
Hm, which one are they going to choose?
75
Johnny Depp cast as a native American is *not* the same as a white person in black face. Actors are cast in roles all the time of ethnicities that are different than their own -- Jews play the parts of Italians, Mexicans play the parts of Arabs, people of Irish descent play the role of a Russian. I really think it's no big deal. Casting a white person to play a black role is different, because white people (normally) can't pass as black, so ridiculous measure have to be taken to disguise the actor's white skin. I have no idea what kind of measures were taken in this particular movie, but in theory, I have no problem with someone getting cast in role for an ethnicity that is not their own.
76
@73: "it's art; not a PSA. the creators shouldn't give a shit who's offended. not to mention; anyone who is feeble minded enough to take offense at these sorts of things if a fucking retard."
Anyone feeble-minded enough to consider these films "art" is a fucking retard.
Anyone feeble-minded enough to consider these films "art" is a fucking retard.
77
@ 73, continuing with @ 76's point... "Art" is a loaded word. Technically, all films are art, but major Hollywood films certainly aren't "fine art," or "art" in the sense most of us define the term. They aren't conceived by one person, working in collaboration with a team of actors and film crew to realize a vision; they're made to cater to as large an audience as possible, and will take full advantage of what they believe people want today, with no thought to making any kind of statement, or showing us anything with any true depth of understanding. Calling it "art" is like calling a typical romance novel "art," placing it in the same class as the works of Dickens, Joyce, or any other great novelist. It doesn't belong there.
That is not to say that something conceived this way can't be very good, or even something that stands the test of time. Perhaps this Lone Ranger movie will become a milestone, something where all the disparate elements fall perfectly into place, becoming this generation's "Gone With the Wind." But the odds against it are long.
To your latter point, that anyone who takes offense is a retard, all I can say is that you are HUGELY ignorant of the topic of casting white people as Native Americans. Capt Tim @ 47's comment addresses you succinctly: "That might fly if there were a long rich history of native americans represented fairly in film and played by native americans and this movie was the exception." Keep in mind that Hollywood had a long history of casting whites as ALL races, always playing up negative stereotypes when they did, even if the character was the hero (Charlie Chan, for example).
I believe Depp and the filmmakers will do their best to be fair, but some things are simply beyond the reach of white people to fix - like trying to portray a member of another race. Tonto is a support character. They don't need an A-list guy playing him, and others have mentioned Adam Beach (now 39, and a veteran of many major Hollywood films) as a real obvious choice.
More...
That is not to say that something conceived this way can't be very good, or even something that stands the test of time. Perhaps this Lone Ranger movie will become a milestone, something where all the disparate elements fall perfectly into place, becoming this generation's "Gone With the Wind." But the odds against it are long.
To your latter point, that anyone who takes offense is a retard, all I can say is that you are HUGELY ignorant of the topic of casting white people as Native Americans. Capt Tim @ 47's comment addresses you succinctly: "That might fly if there were a long rich history of native americans represented fairly in film and played by native americans and this movie was the exception." Keep in mind that Hollywood had a long history of casting whites as ALL races, always playing up negative stereotypes when they did, even if the character was the hero (Charlie Chan, for example).
I believe Depp and the filmmakers will do their best to be fair, but some things are simply beyond the reach of white people to fix - like trying to portray a member of another race. Tonto is a support character. They don't need an A-list guy playing him, and others have mentioned Adam Beach (now 39, and a veteran of many major Hollywood films) as a real obvious choice.
78
The problem with trying to "fix" Tonto is that it's like trying to fix Stepin Fetchit--can't be done. *Any* Tonto, is a racist Tonto.
79
This new quote from Depp about having some kind of native ancestry, maybe Cherokee or Creek, blah blah, vague vague... It doesn't make any sense as in the past his given interviews where he's said for definite that his grandmother was Cherokee and talks in detail about her and the fact that he was bullied at school for being Indian. Why the sudden about turn like it's some vague new possibility he's just discovered?
80
Mystery masked man was smart; he got himself a Tonto; because Tonto did the dirty work for free. Tonto he was smarter; and one day said, "Kiss my ass Kemo Sabe, I've bought a boat and I'm going out to sea."
81
If Elizabeth Taylor AND Angelina Jolie can play Cleopatra, I guess Johnny Depp as Tonto is not a stretch for Whitetywood.
82
Tell a Native American that your "Cherokee", and watch the eyes roll. I always thought this claim was the equivalent of saying "Some of my best friends are black." Nobody is going to care what the tribes think. Most of the American public isn't even aware that we still exist. Unless they lose money at a casino.
83
Ahem, rocket scientists (just playin' ;-) anybody out there know genes? Yup, Depp is Native American (asiatic/mongoloid alleles) somewhere, and more than a little. Possibly there's a nordic, teutonic swede lounging in his gene pool but said nordic has yet to express himself phenotypically (little gene joke).
Been reading these comments, and those on other sites about the movie--it's great that everyone feels so strongly about this story. Multi-race myself, don't care what race plays what character in any role. Ever. Period. We gotta change, people, turn on the news. No race has any particular magical quality, no more or less propensity for violence, intelligence, musical ability (you name it) than any other. Like it or not, though, race is still a character in the American story, and hats off to Depp for making this attempt.
Remember--this is Johnny Depp we're talking about. Self made guy who plays self made guys being themselves...in hats, with swords, skirts, wigs...um...um....I'm trying to say let's give him the benefit of the doubt and take the ride :-)
Been reading these comments, and those on other sites about the movie--it's great that everyone feels so strongly about this story. Multi-race myself, don't care what race plays what character in any role. Ever. Period. We gotta change, people, turn on the news. No race has any particular magical quality, no more or less propensity for violence, intelligence, musical ability (you name it) than any other. Like it or not, though, race is still a character in the American story, and hats off to Depp for making this attempt.
Remember--this is Johnny Depp we're talking about. Self made guy who plays self made guys being themselves...in hats, with swords, skirts, wigs...um...um....I'm trying to say let's give him the benefit of the doubt and take the ride :-)
85
I think he's a good choice. He's popular and he's a crowd and money draw. He seems to get impassioned with projects and I believe he cares for the most part. Name a native American that has that star power to draw attention to something that everyone should already care about? The sad thing here is that a strange white guy has to play another person to get us all interested in the plight of a people we decimated.
86
Why would playing a Native American by someone who is not Native be racist? We are so afraid of offending people it is downright sick anymore. America used to be called a "melting pot" and that was our strength, we used to be able to tell jokes about each other and we all laughed, now people are more into their heritage than into being a human being or American. It is sad and it makes us weaker. Stop dividing us.
88
The only problem with race-bending in movies is that whites are the beneficiaries 99% of the time. If there were actors of everu race playing iconic white people (Queen of England, cowboys etc.) Then there'd be no problem. All roles seem to be open to whites and people of colour are limited by their colour.
When its a white person its all about their talent and how race shouldn't matter.
I've yet to see a non-white playing Marilyn Monroe or Hitler, lol, Iconic white roles.
When its a white person its all about their talent and how race shouldn't matter.
I've yet to see a non-white playing Marilyn Monroe or Hitler, lol, Iconic white roles.
89
I'm a really native American of the miccosukee tribe down in Florida! I don't get it when some people say their Cherokee! All people say they are Cherokee! Come up with something different then that I've been hearing that my whole like from so called half breeds or just people who want to get into the tribe just for money! We deserve everything because the white man came to this rich land and took it from my ancestors! We suffered so much! I hate hearing all this I'm Cherokee or my grandmother is a Cherokee princess... Shove that shit up ur ass!
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