Slog
News & ArtsWednesday, February 15, 2012
Sports Black Racism and Lin
Posted by Charles Mudede on Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 8:03 AM
Last night: the clock running down, the long shot, all net, the win, the bringing down of the house, and then WTF at 0:29...
The brother really did that? He really thought it was appropriate to do that? Does he think Lin is RZA or something? What an embarrassment to my race.
Then there's the geopolitics of Lin:
[In] mainland China have also gone wild, and as of Wednesday Mr. Lin had more than a million fans on the Chinese microblogging site Weibo. Chinese television stations have also covered his rise extensively, albeit with occasional edits that blur out references to Taiwan—underscoring the geopolitical tensions that frame the debate about Mr. Lin.
A global star is born.
1
You mean the bow? Charles, when you interpret a bow as an insult, perhaps it's time to step back and reassess your intellectual framework.
2
'Race'? Best of luck with that construct.
(But I'm sure it will take you very very far into the hallowed halls human misery and hate.)
Fuck dude, you can do better than that.
(But I'm sure it will take you very very far into the hallowed halls human misery and hate.)
Fuck dude, you can do better than that.
3
What is it you see at :29? I didn't see anything noteworthy, just a lot of triumphal male noises and gestures. I'm enjoying the contrast between the beauty of his movements and the utter plainness of his features.
6
The bow struck me more as a dojo "before and after event"/"move from seeing one too many bad kung-fu" flicks sort of thing. I don't think it was an insult, unintended or deliberate.
7
OK, let's be realistic here. This is not the most nonsensical thing Chuck has ever posted.
But it's on the short list.
But it's on the short list.
8
In footage of his 38 point game against the lakers there were also signs that IIRC mentioned "Emperor Lin" and "The Yellow Threat" or yellow something. I don't know the race of the folks with those signs. But yeah, doing a japanese-style bow or whatever that was to the Asian guy is kinda fucked up.
@1 - It's not an insult to Lin. It's a racist compliment.
@1 - It's not an insult to Lin. It's a racist compliment.
10
For an established NBA player to freaking BOW to a guy that's functionally been in the league less than a month--a MONTH--is astonishing. Read Lin's wikipedia page. There are a literal metric fuck ton of college coaches, recruiters, and NBA staff kicking themselves right now.
The Knicks may have won the goddamn lottery here with a hybrid of an Allen Iverson and John Stockton.
The Knicks may have won the goddamn lottery here with a hybrid of an Allen Iverson and John Stockton.
11
It's not that it's an insult. Guy's an Asian-American. The bowing is playing off of his presumed culture based on his race. This is not complicated. I expected like a quick head nod/bow, not this full-on-bow-with-hands-pressed-together business.
It's not making a slanty-eyes gesture, but it's not fully innocent either.
It's not making a slanty-eyes gesture, but it's not fully innocent either.
12
Somebody needs to ask the dude what he was trying to express. At first, I thought maybe he was making some Charlie Chan face, but all I see is a fucking big smile. Plus, I'm looking at his hands... is that the universal "T" for time? Is he bowing to Lin's brilliant time-management?
'Cause if he is, he should. So should they all.
'Cause if he is, he should. So should they all.
14
He wasn't doing a "Japanese Style" bow, and his hand motions weren't for forming a 'T' or anything like that. It was the open hand/fist salute that's standard in a lot of martial arts circles. So yeah, potentially a prejudicial thing, but I'd chalk it up more to cultural appropriation. Even Charles does it with his "Does he think he's RZA?", because, hello, the Wu-Tang Clan was all about appropriation of a variety of kung-fu moviehouse stereotypes and tropes. Because doing a kungfu bow to RZA would have been appropriate, apparently? Really though, if Lin doesn't have a problem with it, all the non-Chinese people should mention it being "a bit weird" and then get on with their lives.
16
@15 - Thanks, yeah, that's what I was thinking of.
That's interesting, as a play off Kobe's nickname... Still strikes me as racist. I've never heard "yellow" used neutrally.
That's interesting, as a play off Kobe's nickname... Still strikes me as racist. I've never heard "yellow" used neutrally.
17
Though it may not be intended as an insult, but what #8 said: there's something kind of fucked up about doing a bow like that to an Asian American guy out of the blue (as opposed to, say, if it were an Asian American in a martial arts studio or at some sort of ceremony where it's expected).
It reminds me of that mayor in CT who said he might have some tacos to help the Latino community. It wasn't exactly intended to be racist, but it was a stupid remark to start with, and the more he defended it, the more apparent his ignorance became.
It reminds me of that mayor in CT who said he might have some tacos to help the Latino community. It wasn't exactly intended to be racist, but it was a stupid remark to start with, and the more he defended it, the more apparent his ignorance became.
18
@16
"Yellow Mamba" is a little racist but can you really imagine anyone being offended by it? He is being compared to one of the best basketball players ever.
"Yellow Mamba" is a little racist but can you really imagine anyone being offended by it? He is being compared to one of the best basketball players ever.
19
Right, and that video where Lin and another teammate do an elaborate handshake routine wherein Lin mimes being a nerd reading a book is definitely a sign that the teammate is an ignorant believer of the "Asians are all smart math nerds" stereotype.
Teammates tend to have all sorts of little celebratory gestures with each other. Which is to say, if Lin's teammates are bowing to him, it's probably because he's in on the joke, not because they're ignorant of how to interact with Asian Americans.
Teammates tend to have all sorts of little celebratory gestures with each other. Which is to say, if Lin's teammates are bowing to him, it's probably because he's in on the joke, not because they're ignorant of how to interact with Asian Americans.
20
Ah, the bow from the teammate. I figured that was another jokey gesture like the handshake he has with Landry Fields. @5, I didn't mean to insult your taste if you find him handsome, that's cool. I'm sure back in the day there were Sonics fans who mooned over Jack Sikma too. But Lin's homeliness is sort of an endearing feature, it goes with his evident joy in the game. Gorgeous in motion but quite ordinary looking - I really do enjoy the contrast.
21
So if you think that Charles is being ridiculous here and that this really is a compliment, and you're not Asian or Asian American, here's what you might try: when you see some Asian Americans at work and on the street, bow to them like this and observe what happens. When at work, do this especially with Asian Americans who are your peers or who outrank you. And do this in front of many people. Tell us what happened when you've done this.
22
My Asian girlfriend is always quick to respond to comments about "her people" with: "You mean people from upstate New York?"
The guy did not mean anything negative towards his teammate, but he would have been better off with a "I'm not worthy" bow or something.
The guy did not mean anything negative towards his teammate, but he would have been better off with a "I'm not worthy" bow or something.
23
Sure, the bow was uncouth, but it was meant in appreciation to a comrade. The wonderful thing about a sports team is that, if the team is truly functional, it doesn't matter what ethnicity or nationality or education level your teammate is; all that matters is that he's your teammate and whether he's a good teammate. This is one of the great redeeming qualities of team sports, and in this respect it resembles a military unit.
Speaking of which, I'm reminded of that quote from the Duke of Ellington, "The Battle of Waterloo was won on the playing-fields of Eton."
Speaking of which, I'm reminded of that quote from the Duke of Ellington, "The Battle of Waterloo was won on the playing-fields of Eton."
25
You know, intention counts when interpreting a gesture, and so does the relationship between the participants. This was obviously a sign of respect by a teammate. Hell, it could easily be something that they've done before in jest. At the very worst interpretation it's well intentioned but tone-deaf. But if we're going to take this interpretation, even discussing Lin, who is as American as all the other guys on this team, as exceptional in part because of his race, is just as "tone-deaf". Awareness of race and culture does not equal racism, for fucks sake.
26
Amazing, and just think, a few months ago when Lin flew into town it was like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-twUCEfzr…
27
My god.
It's a homage to the NY Giants (they won their league championship, it's called the Superbowl). One of their linemen does that when he sacks a quarterback.
Get over your smart selves. Please.
It's a homage to the NY Giants (they won their league championship, it's called the Superbowl). One of their linemen does that when he sacks a quarterback.
Get over your smart selves. Please.
28
They're basketball players, not the political science PC police. Can you imagine all the racist banter that gets tossed amongst friends and coworkers inside the locker room? Take that stick out of your ass and stop being offended on the behalf of people you know nothing about.
Gotta love how we should never share culture and never stray outside our own ethnicities.
Gotta love how we should never share culture and never stray outside our own ethnicities.
29
Good Morning Charles,
Good on you for your vigilance. If it's an embarrassment to your race it's an embarrassment to mine or ours if you will as well, the human race.
@21 has a point. However, coming from Lin's teammate, it appears to have been an act of endearment and respect for having won the game with such a sensational shot. So, I guess one could accept or not the context. Still, I wouldn't do it. I think a handshake and/or pat on the back is fine. But, I don't play NBA basketball. Let alone the way Lin does. Good on him.
Good on you for your vigilance. If it's an embarrassment to your race it's an embarrassment to mine or ours if you will as well, the human race.
@21 has a point. However, coming from Lin's teammate, it appears to have been an act of endearment and respect for having won the game with such a sensational shot. So, I guess one could accept or not the context. Still, I wouldn't do it. I think a handshake and/or pat on the back is fine. But, I don't play NBA basketball. Let alone the way Lin does. Good on him.
30
Fucking Charles does everything he can to see racism in every possible word or action anybody makes.
Charles, you need to lay off this fixation. It's bad for your health and if it's as blatant at home as it is on SLOG you're fucking up your kids.
Charles, you need to lay off this fixation. It's bad for your health and if it's as blatant at home as it is on SLOG you're fucking up your kids.
31
Also, for fucks sake Charles, the bow is a sign of respect. If he'd pulled the corners of his eyes up and called him Mr Chang then we can talk about racism.
32
sirkowski@28:
Surprisingly well-put for a stupid Pollock bastard. BTW, how're you and the other 19 dumb Pollocks coming along with that light-bulb changing project?
(I'm joking, of course...or maybe I'm not and it's just hard to see through the exotic facade of my Jap inscrutability.)
Gotta love how we should never share culture and never stray outside our own ethnicities.
Surprisingly well-put for a stupid Pollock bastard. BTW, how're you and the other 19 dumb Pollocks coming along with that light-bulb changing project?
(I'm joking, of course...or maybe I'm not and it's just hard to see through the exotic facade of my Jap inscrutability.)
33
Assholes: do I have to register for you to fucking read this?
Justin Tuck. He plays for the NY Giants. He bows when he sacks a quarterback. Some dudes air hump, some dudes go Merton Hanks/Shaq crazy-limbs, some dudes do a bad homerun swing. This dude does a stupid bow.
I'm sure there are NYers in offices doing that bow to each other after passing the stapler.
Stop it. Please. Or, take off your tweed jacket with the elbow patches, fashion a noose, and hang yourself.
You want to get angry about sports-related racism? Let's talk about the tomahawk chop or, fuck, that there's a NFL team with a nickname you couldn't say in polite company. This is nothing.
Justin Tuck. He plays for the NY Giants. He bows when he sacks a quarterback. Some dudes air hump, some dudes go Merton Hanks/Shaq crazy-limbs, some dudes do a bad homerun swing. This dude does a stupid bow.
I'm sure there are NYers in offices doing that bow to each other after passing the stapler.
Stop it. Please. Or, take off your tweed jacket with the elbow patches, fashion a noose, and hang yourself.
You want to get angry about sports-related racism? Let's talk about the tomahawk chop or, fuck, that there's a NFL team with a nickname you couldn't say in polite company. This is nothing.
34
A friend of mine who owned a video store told me black guys love Kung Fu films. Maybe it was an inside joke between teammates? As someone of an asian backgroup, at face value, I don't see anything offensive about the video
36
" What an embarrassment to my race. "
I don't know, and am not concerned with appropriateness here, but I'm sure Chas. must have been joking with the above sentence, after all the articles and links on genetics and molecular biology, one is sure Mr. M. was being sarcastic, as superficial skin color can easily be misleading, and a DNA check might have shown the brother was only 1/8th or less African ancestry, and preponderantly Euro.
I don't know, and am not concerned with appropriateness here, but I'm sure Chas. must have been joking with the above sentence, after all the articles and links on genetics and molecular biology, one is sure Mr. M. was being sarcastic, as superficial skin color can easily be misleading, and a DNA check might have shown the brother was only 1/8th or less African ancestry, and preponderantly Euro.
37
I swear to god, some of you people have such delicate fucking sensibilities and get offended so easily that I have to wonder how you function in this world....
40
I wonder how Asian kids would celebrate a black kid who rocks a violin recital at a Suzuki school. Chest-thumping, roof raising, freak dancing?
42
Or not - and it's just a thing that he and his teammates do...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfGkDn73y…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfGkDn73y…
43
What i think needs to be considered here is the cultural or racial sensitivity of the movement not if it was overt racism. So much of the cultural sensitivity that we are taught to be aware of is aimed towards the african american community or the latino community. Should we also not think of how our actions could be percieved by the asian community. To end with an example, if I, a white male, portray and african american in a stereotypical manner is it rascist. Let us say I spit through a gap in my teeth and say sheeeit.
45
I find "embarrassment to [his/her/your/my/our/etc] race" to be a surprising statement coming from an enlightened person. Is every individual an accurate representation of the entire race of people they appear to be descended from? RLY?
47
If it's anything it's a little awkward but is it anymore offensive than the fist bump thing being an awkward attempt by a white guy at being down with black men?
My take is that they're goddamn teammates and we're not privy to the hours and hours of interactions and bonding these guys go through on a daily basis and all the little inside jokes and gestures that crop up between themselves. Plus is it racist to affectionately rib a friend with a stereotype ment ironically to show how really we aren't different?
This reminds me a little of when you're a kid and everybodies talking shit and dissing eachothers moms to hilarious effect and there was always that one fucking kid that would flipthefuckout because "noboddy talks bout my mommy! wahwah" disregarding that you've all probably know and like his mom and it was just a game of hyperbole.
My take is that they're goddamn teammates and we're not privy to the hours and hours of interactions and bonding these guys go through on a daily basis and all the little inside jokes and gestures that crop up between themselves. Plus is it racist to affectionately rib a friend with a stereotype ment ironically to show how really we aren't different?
This reminds me a little of when you're a kid and everybodies talking shit and dissing eachothers moms to hilarious effect and there was always that one fucking kid that would flipthefuckout because "noboddy talks bout my mommy! wahwah" disregarding that you've all probably know and like his mom and it was just a game of hyperbole.
48
@32 You just proved my point about people getting offended by things they don't understand. And did you ever missed the mark. pollack lol
50
@48 sirkowski: Nope, I totally get what you're saying and you assumed I was offended. In this case, I also think Charles was off the mark because, 1) he didn't get that this was shit that teammates who clearly respect each other do, and 2) (maybe worse) he presumed that every black person was responsible for representing their "race."
I called you a dumb Pollack because this is the Slog, and I'm a sneaky, underhanded Nip.
I called you a dumb Pollack because this is the Slog, and I'm a sneaky, underhanded Nip.
51
@21 FTW! Thanks Charles for calling it out... It's not easy being the 'fly in the buttermilk', but Lin like others before set the stage for re-examination of cultural constructs and stereotypes by their talents and expertise.
52
@21 doesn't win.
Watch this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfGkDn73y…
Look closely now. What does LIN do?
Now think about it - read all of the comments where people mention athletes celebrating in various ways. Its not random. Its not just some guy bowing in front of some asian strangers. Think about it some more (take a break if you have to). And then realize Charles' post and most of the thread is pointless...
Watch this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfGkDn73y…
Look closely now. What does LIN do?
Now think about it - read all of the comments where people mention athletes celebrating in various ways. Its not random. Its not just some guy bowing in front of some asian strangers. Think about it some more (take a break if you have to). And then realize Charles' post and most of the thread is pointless...
55
I'm Asian American. I was born in America. Asian Americans are actually American citizens. Yes, its true. Asian Americans, especially the ones that were born in America, don't bow to each other. We're not taught that (at the exact same schools white and black Americans go to.....you remember us right ? We were sitting in class next to you when we were pledging allegiance, to the flag, of the United States of America....).
Asian nationals may very well bow to each other. That's *their* culture.
If Melo hits a game winner and Jeremy starts jumping up and down doing a celebratory Zulu dance in front of Melo, and you were African American, how would that make you feel ? Would that be racist or a sign of respect ? Would it be an inclusive, American gesture (like a chest bump), or would you be making the African American out to be foreign/non-American ?
Finally, lets be clear too that Melo did the exact same thing as Walker during the Nets game. Check out the videos when Jeremy heads to the bench after scoring. And Jeremy had to play the racist game because it was Melo's team and Jeremy had to do the idiotic bow back. Could he really have told the team leader Melo to eff off ? If your boss insults you, what can you do ? I'd pull him aside and tell him nicely to stop, but Jeremy Lin may be too nice of a guy to do that.
Asian nationals may very well bow to each other. That's *their* culture.
If Melo hits a game winner and Jeremy starts jumping up and down doing a celebratory Zulu dance in front of Melo, and you were African American, how would that make you feel ? Would that be racist or a sign of respect ? Would it be an inclusive, American gesture (like a chest bump), or would you be making the African American out to be foreign/non-American ?
Finally, lets be clear too that Melo did the exact same thing as Walker during the Nets game. Check out the videos when Jeremy heads to the bench after scoring. And Jeremy had to play the racist game because it was Melo's team and Jeremy had to do the idiotic bow back. Could he really have told the team leader Melo to eff off ? If your boss insults you, what can you do ? I'd pull him aside and tell him nicely to stop, but Jeremy Lin may be too nice of a guy to do that.
56
Charles....bored much this morning? I've seen black basketball players bow to other black basketball players after a key basket is made. Or white football players bow to black football players after a touchdown. I don't think this bow has any racial overtone, just masculine ebullience over a key basket.
Now black racism would be Floyd Mayweather's comment, link below:
http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic…
Now black racism would be Floyd Mayweather's comment, link below:
http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic…
57
As an Asian-American, I applaud this blog post and am thankful for the remarks.
I wouldn't throw around the label "racist" in this instance. It's a strong label and people react very harshly to it.
But it strikes me as odd and I definitely noticed it the first time it happened.
The thing is that Jeremy is just as American as anyone else on that team.
Wouldn't it be odd if he used some greeting from African culture with his teammates? Or how about a tribal dance?
Have people seen Asian-Americans greet each other? We don't bow to each other. lol!
Of course his teammate likely meant it out of respect and admiration and the intention wasn't bad. Maybe there's some underlying joke. But, honestly, that ish is an embarrassment in today's society.
I wouldn't throw around the label "racist" in this instance. It's a strong label and people react very harshly to it.
But it strikes me as odd and I definitely noticed it the first time it happened.
The thing is that Jeremy is just as American as anyone else on that team.
Wouldn't it be odd if he used some greeting from African culture with his teammates? Or how about a tribal dance?
Have people seen Asian-Americans greet each other? We don't bow to each other. lol!
Of course his teammate likely meant it out of respect and admiration and the intention wasn't bad. Maybe there's some underlying joke. But, honestly, that ish is an embarrassment in today's society.
58
i think you're a bit delusional... the bow is the same one that lin and anthony displayed in the game against the nets (see at 0:17 on http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv…). it's nothing more than just a way to celebrate with teammates...
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