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News & ArtsTuesday, February 14, 2012
Savage Love SL Letter of the Day: Anger Mismanagement
Posted by Dan Savage on Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 6:12 PM
I know that you, of all people, will have sound advice about this situation.
My boyfriend takes really interesting pictures. I tell you this to explain why I was on his computer in the first place. He has some amazing pictures from various vacations we've taken, as well as some of his own artsy projects that he kind of keeps to himself because they are "never ready." So I was browsing through his digital photo albums.
That's when I came upon a set of pictures (and one video) that seemed a little strange. My partner's best friend in some rubber get-up... a picture of his ass, a photo of him taking a giant black dildo up his ass. Strange, but I'm still willing to go with it. Then a picture of someone's cock in someone's ass. Then a picture of my partner in some rubber get-up. Okay. Then a picture of said best friend's cock in my partner's mouth! Now, even at this point I'm still crazily willing to chalk it up to gay boys playing around. Then I hit the image that makes the blood drain from my head, my boyfriend on top of said best friend, filming himself fucking him. A video!
I wish that I could say that I was cool with this, but I was not. I wish I could say that I didn't sink to the floor in the most cliche' way screaming and sobbing. I took a photo of the screen and sent it to my boyfriend-of-five-years (out at a birthday party with said best friend) with the comment "WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK!?!?!?"
I'm feeling like I should make a long story short here. Obviously I was feeling extremely angry, betrayed, and hurt by both of these people. This is something that we never agreed upon. Something that we have actually discussed and both agreed that we would be willing to bring a third in but not seek sex outside the relationship.
I've already forgiven my boyfriend. And he told me that this happened months ago, and both he and the best friend agreed at that time that it was a horrible mistake that would never happen again, that it was detrimental to their friendship and explosive for their respective relationships. I still have so many questions about this whole thing. (Many I've already asked: Is this something you need? Why didn't you talk to me about this? You do know that I'm totally willing to get rubbered up for you (or leathered, or masked, or cuffed, or WHATEVERED)? Have their been any others? etc. etc.) And I feel like we're good and this situation has honestly opened up a discussion about our sex life that I believe he thought was taboo. And, I don't know, maybe I inadvertently made it taboo. I tend to lean vanilla. Obviously this is a conversation that he and I need to keep having... as you say, the relationship is far more important than this single stupid infidelity.
Anyway, here's the crux. Over the last couple of years, this best friend and I have actually become friends. The boyfriend has made it clear that he's not going to stop being friends with him (and I'm not really asking him to). I know that the best friend feels horrible about what happened. I've been avoiding him like the plague. I can feel the need to forgive him pressing on me, but I can't bring myself to bridge my anger. I don't know how I can continue this friendship. I want to forgive him, Dan, but I don't want to forgive him. My ambivalence is driving me crazy. Is it weird that I harbor more anger for him than I do for my boyfriend? Do I just need time? I can't just cut him out of my life because that would be cutting out a huge piece of my partner's life as well. I don't know. What do you think?
Hopelessly Ambivalent
My response—and a bonus letter—after the jump....
Forgive the best friend—let's call him "Gimp"—but not yet.
You're focusing most your anger on Gimp right now, HA, and while that may not be fair, it is useful.
Here's what I think is going on in your head: You're angry but you want to work things out and you've consciously or subconsciously willed yourself to be mad at Gimp instead of your boyfriend. Because it's safer. Because taking all of your anger and dumping it on Gimp is going to buy you and your boyfriend the time you need to rationally discuss/process/get past this single, stupid, and—sorry—ridiculously hot infidelity. By the time you realize and/or are ready to admit that your boyfriend was the appropriate focus for your anger, HA, and your anger with Gimp begins to subside, enough time will have passed that your relationship will (fingers crossed) be back on track.
And when your anger does turn to your boyfriend—or what's left of your anger does—it won't be quite so WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK ALL CAPS anymore and, AS FUCKING SUCH, it will be less likely to destroy your relationship.
But, yeah, you should forgive Gimp—but not yet. And if your boyfriend presses you to forgive Gimp before you're ready, HA, tell him something like this: "Look, honey, if I forgive Gimp now then I'm WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK anger will be directed at you instead. Let me be FUCKING ANGRY HULK SMASH with Gimp while we work to patch things up and once we're solid I'll forgive him and just be normal angry with you."
And after it's all over—once you and your boyfriend are solid, HA, and Gimp is forgiven—I think a rubbered-up, no-hard-feelings, bygones-be-bygones threesome (with Gimp's BF's permission—or, better, yet, participation) would be go a long way toward convincing your boyfriend that you're not vanilla anymore.
Bonus letter...
I'm a 26-year-old bi girl in an awesome, sexually/emotionally/everything fulfilling relationship with a dude who has the best ass in the world. (That's right, I threw down that gauntlet!) I actually I don't have any questions or problems. Rather, I wanted to write a thank-you email. I recently moved to a new city and found myself once again broke, but for the first time in my life living in a room of my own with plenty of privacy—this will do wonders for your sex life! (who'd a thunk it?)—I decided to apply to be a phone sex operator (with my boyfriend's blessing). I was nervous to start, but soon figured out that I am really fucking good at this business—the shit that comes out of my mouth sometimes makes me wonder if I've been possessed by a porn star! I just wanted to let you know that your column/podcast played a crucial part in me having the cojones to actually go for something like this, and as a result you have made many kinky men very, very happy. Thanks and keep up the awesome work!
Got Your Number
What do these two letters have in common? Pictures should have been enclosed with both letters!
Best ass in the world? You threw that gauntlet down, GYN, but you didn't enclose a picture to prove it. That's not something we take a LW's word for around here, GYN. Pics or that ass didn't happen.
And, HA, reading about those photos you discovered—the source of so much pain, I realize, but still— made me want to see them. And I'm surely not the only one who felt that way. Maybe you could send pics of the threesome if it happens?
3
6
So, if I were you, HA, I'd consider the possibility that your boyfriend and the Gimp have been fucking all along. And are still lying to you. If you consider that, and would still stick around, let them know, and you can process accordingly.
8
I would totes submit my boyfriend's ass. It is magnificent.
9
10
And Dan, where was your MIND when you recommended that threesome? It's fine for you to post your fantasies -- post away; we'll read 'em -- but they have no place in your answers to people who are hurting and looking for advice.
11
I see the point of those saying that not having deleted the video/photos suggests something may still be going on -- but if HA is a guy, then his boyfriend's little adventure was not 'a straight guy experimenting', but something more within the confines of gay culture. Would that change you guys' expectations?
Who knows - the boyfriend and BFF may have been really disciplined these few months and have chosen relationship above hot sex with each other, and they may even be able to continue doing so. But this virtuous choice comes at the cost of dousing that particular desire - and yes, it may be a cost that the boyfriend is willing to pay. But - as Dan advised - the reward for LW to join in a threesome or foursome is much more and will pay dividends to his own relationship with the boyfriend.
16
An ass-off is an EXCELLENT idea! I won't be sending any pics in, but would love to see the ones that are submitted!
18
Personally I wouldn't want to live with that kind of abuse.
HA dump the CPOS, and get sane before you start over with someone that will either be truthful about their entanglements, or learn to put their partner's feelings first.
Peace.
21
In other words, was this a serious investment from your bf or was this a whimsical spur of the moment "oooo, rubber looks and feels good" moment that went too far?
I have exhibitionist and photographer friends where the shoots started out as shoots but soon went too far. No, I wasn't dating any of them at the time of their stories.
But, it depends on who's rubber suit it is...
Is this the best you could do for a warm uplifting Valentine's day smutfest letter? I know you've been busy, but sheesh...
Peace.
PS: Speaking as a hetero, yes a nice tear jerking gay love forever letter would do.
23
24
Pictures to get us through the rest of winter, please.
29
I really love your letter - you come off as smart, emotionally intelligent, funny, and secure. Things are gonna work out for you one way or the other.
And GYN, you are hilarious and awesome. I'm dying to know what kind of shit comes out of your mouth. I've never actually called a sex line before, but if I had your number I'd call you.
Great letters, Dan, they made my day.
This is my totally imagined, inappropriate reading of the unspoken backstory: I get the vibe that these are 20-somethings power-gay aspirants, money to throw around (vacations, photography), mimic slutty gay culture (rubber suits hung neatly alongside Lagerfelds for some street cred), but actually forged their values in very well-appointed neighbourhoods where the world falls apart without heterosexist monogamy - being gay notwithstanding. Very rational about conducting their lives - discussions, agreements, forgivenesses - but their dicks betray them.
Bitchy, prejudicial, inappropriate, projecting, I know... But it might explain the availability of rubber suits. Not that it makes HA's anger & sense of betrayal less real or valid. But I think a world where the imperative to fuck overrides worries about lying fornicators is a better place.
I am sex positive, but this was no random drunken meaningless roll in the hay. This was premeditated, costumes and sets, cameras, possibly lighting and for all we know there was a director!
When they don't, I spend half the letter just trying to figure out who is who. Maybe it shouldn't matter, but I just feel differently when it is two dudes vs two women vs one of each.
With two guys I usually come down on the "you realize you are dealing with a guy, right?" side of things. With two women (which really seems not to come up much around here) it is more like "perhaps you should talk, you know, like women." With one of each it usually about bridging the cultural divide in a way that isn't the case with two of the same sex.
I just like it better when I can know whether to be inclined more towards bridging the divide vs "more fucking will probably solve that" vs "more talking with probably solve that."
35
I caught my boyfriend cheating and he plans to stay friends with his accomplice. What do I do with my anger?
Forgive him or DTMFA. Forgiveness is very powerful but don't continue to be a cuckold if that's not your thing. It's you or the BFF. Someone's got to go or your anger will fester.
"Was it a one-time thing or had it been happening for a while?" "Is it still going on?" "Do I trust that my boyfriend is telling me the whole truth?"--these weren't even questions HA asked in his letter. They may make a difference to him or they may not. But the crux of the matter is he's angry and doesn't want to forgive (really) either of them, and they continue to stay friends.
If you re-read the letter, HA doesn't want to forgive the boyfriend's friend--the accomplice (Gimp)--with whom he (HA) has become friends over the years. And he (HA) is feeling pressure (coming mostly, it seems, from himself) to forgive this guy.
That might not be possible, and HA should let himself off the hook. But the problem then becomes this:
For trust reasons, one potential way to help HA regain his trust in his boyfriend would be for the boyfriend and Gimp to not have "alone time," but to do things as a threesome with HA (and I don't mean sex). But seeing Gimp really gets HA angry and stirs up the whole betrayal all over again for him. So that isn't a good idea. This is a five-year relationship and it seems like maybe it should take priority. Maybe the boyfriend should cool down his friendship, if his relationship matters to him.
But then, I mean, I can't imagine any reason in the world to HAVE pictures of oneself cheating on one's partner of five years. Like. Doing the thing that could mess up what are theoretically your two most important relationships, with your partner and your BFF, is already showing an assload of poor judgement. Documenting it, making evidence of it, seems almost self-sabotaging. Relationship suicide.
Now, if BF had had some excuse about using these pics, ahem, commercially, I might have believed that he had ANY GOOD REASON to keep them. (Scrambling for excuses for him here.) In any case, my take is that this guy is either (a) dumb as rocks, (b) trying to sabotage his LTR, or (c) both.
43
Yes - the difference is that gay men are years ahead of heterosexuals in their attitudes towards sex. We're catching up, though.
1. Have a discussion about relationship rules: because when we both agree to the rules, we're all happy happy.
2. Be GGG: "I'm totally willing to get rubbered up for you".
3. Forgive the boyfriend: make this a teachable moment about how you could be a better sexual partner, "maybe I inadvertently made it taboo".
4. Let the boyfriend keep the BFF because you don't want to be possessive: "I can feel the need to forgive him pressing on me."
"Something that we have actually discussed and both agreed that we would be willing to bring a third in but not seek sex outside the relationship." - It so ... theoretical.
There's a pattern of doing stuff because he's been told to, because he's expected to, because that is the right-thing-to-do. His ambivalence is his other selves telling him to stop it.
This anger and sense of betrayal he's feeling - is it because he's "hurt", or because all this had spun out of his control, his sense of order, of how things should work?
That step-by-step revelation of progressively more transgressive photos is a delicious portrait of HA trying to stretch the boundary so that his sense of order does not get upset. It just doesn't sound convincing. Where's his heart in all this? Where's his dick?
I dunno. Maybe he's so seen-everything-already when it comes to sex, he feels no need to justify it in the letter. What he has not written I can't read into. What I'm reading is young and inexperienced.
Doesn't mean his turmoil is a fake hissy fit, or that he shouldn't feel angry or betrayed. But a bout of letting go, just going forth and fucking the boyfriend and the asshole BFF together, of watching the 2 of them go at it, and see how he responds - it might just sort things out a bit, not about the relationships, but about himself.
You can fuck-and-film from behind the ass, or from between the bottom's legs if he's lying on the back, but that's not "my boyfriend on top of said best friend".
Uggh. Either HA wrote sloppily - which is so out of character to the rest of the letter - or, ugggghhhh, the dreaded ... calling fake!! Let's see the pics and video!
ignore Danny.
he is full of shit.
and WAY too far down the 'disgusting perverted deviant' road to ever find his way back to Real World.
#2-
DTMFA.
unless you're into emotional pain and being shat upon.
cheating pieces of shit who are sorry do not remain best friends with their partners is shittery.
#3
Forgive everyone involved.
as soon as possible.
it is for your own sake.
Forgiving is all about freeing yourself.
anger, resentment, bitterness- they all enslave you.
and keep you from being free and happy.
you don't forgive because the cheating pieces of shit deserve it.
you forgive because YOU deserve it.
the cheating pieces of shit may really be sorry (btw- your boyfriend is not...) and that often makes forgiving easier.
but even if they are not sorry, in fact- ESPECIALLY if they are not sorry; it is vital that you forgive.
for your sake.
#3a- forgiving doesn't mean sticking around for more abuse
#3b- dumping the piece of shit may make the forgiving easier
good luck
ok
since you were so nice we really feel bad about calling you dumbass.
its just what trolls do.......
53
I have no idea what to suggest about all that, but am fairly certain the three way suggested -- unless she wants that and I'd say her reaction says not -- would not make anything better.
"I think a world where the imperative to fuck overrides worries about lying fornicators is a better place."
I love it! In total agreement with you. Wish more people (my husband, in particular) felt the same way.
My question in this situations is always: why cheat?? In this situation especially. The boyfriend is having hot sex with his best friend. Why in the world don't they just break up with their primary partners and be together? They have both the sexual and the emotional component. In HA's shoes, that'd be the big question I'd be asking.
My bf's answer to that same question was," She's just for sex," just as context.
For instance, when I hear you ask why they don't just break up with their primary partners, it sounds very shocking and drastic to me. To me it seems like it would be very wrong to throw a relationship away because you want to form a sexual connection with someone else.
For me, the question isn't "why cheat?", it's "why do the people I fall in love with insist I can't ever have sex with anybody else ever again?"
You ask the question "why cheat?"; if you found the right partner(s) a better question might be "why lie?". I can't answer for most people, but I am strictly monogamous. I have no idea how much of that is nurture versus nature, but I just am. Like every relationship, there are always compromises because no one is perfect AND our ideals are changing somewhat all the time. If a major part of what drives you is the need to explore sex with multiple partners, someone that is possessive and/or insecure should lose a lot of attractiveness to you. From their standpoint, a question for you would be why you aren't working hard enough to help make them the only one you want to have sex with.
I would argue that the living with a lie thing is the part of cheating that may be the biggest deal breaker for most people. It seems like the liar part of the cheat is what hurts the most: trust and respect are crucial parts of a relationship. Perhaps part of the answer to finding people that are willing to be nonexclusive is to respect them enough to be open from the beginning. I'm sure lots of people make it clear they won't share as a requirement for beginning a relationship; it would be interesting to find out how many are really insisting they won't be lied to.
Peace.
58
I'm not sensing much regret in that.
I was thinking that some of the people who make it clear they won't share are really insisting that they WILL be lied to.
I wonder what kind of work I could do to make my spouse the only one I want to have sex with... I'd be fairly content having sex with only him, if he would actually have sex with me :-( Well, he takes one for the team every once in a while, but it's not enough for me to feel fulfilled, wanted, desired, loved, satisfied...
In my sadness and desperation, I occasionally cheat, starting fairly recently. I stopped for a while because I felt like I was fundamentally changing into a lying, dishonest person... but then the desperation came back. So now I guess I just don't do it very often, so that I won't feel nervous and sneaky all the time, but every once in a while I find an outlet.
Hindsight being what it is, I shouldn't have gotten involved with him in the first place. Even if he were still my lover, I'd prefer some kind of open relationship. But love hit me hard, and I guess I already had a high tolerance for unhappiness, so here we are years later.
Ok, that said, I agree that the suggestion of a threesome goes too far. This is not a couple that had simply failed to clarify terms of the relationship. Rather, they had agreements about how to bring other people in. The other guy is the "best friend", thus laying a potentially greater claim on the boyfriend's affections than the lw. Let's let him heal, and measure how willing the boyfriend is willing to help the healing process, before threatening everything again. Put another way, having a threesome with someone you're worried your bf might love more than you, and has already fucked, sounds like a recipe for emotional disaster.
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