Slog
News & ArtsThursday, February 9, 2012
Gay Marriage "Let me be the first one to say: My business will refuse to participate in a same-sex marriage ceremony," by Republican Representative Matt Shea of the Spokane Valley
Posted by Eli Sanders on Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:35 AM
Also from Rep. Shea: "This country was not founded on sexual liberty, Mr. Speaker. It was founded on religious liberty. And where those two clash, religious liberty should always win out."
Also: "This is very personal for me on one issue, and that's florists."
John Sattgast, spokesman for Rep. Shea, tells me that Rep. Shea works as "a private practice attorney." Rep. Shea's web site says he works at Casey Law Offices, P.S., Spokane, Washington.
1
“Giving someone else equal rights does not infringe or take away rights from you.
It just makes it illegal to enforce your prejudice and hate.
It’s that simple.”
It just makes it illegal to enforce your prejudice and hate.
It’s that simple.”
3
So... He's a private practice attorney, is he?
As an "officer of the Court," he has certain responsibilities towards the Bar and the Law. Not sure what they are, or how much latitude he has to discriminate in his practice, but I suspect he might have less latitude than he thinks he does.
Oh, please, please, let him do something mean or stupid and get disbarred!
As an "officer of the Court," he has certain responsibilities towards the Bar and the Law. Not sure what they are, or how much latitude he has to discriminate in his practice, but I suspect he might have less latitude than he thinks he does.
Oh, please, please, let him do something mean or stupid and get disbarred!
4
Really. That's the best you can come up with? You want to deny me the right to marry because of florists?
News flash: It is already illegal for a retail business (like, oh, a florist) to discriminate against persons on the basis of sexual orientation. Has been for several years now. Where the fuck did you go to law school?
News flash: It is already illegal for a retail business (like, oh, a florist) to discriminate against persons on the basis of sexual orientation. Has been for several years now. Where the fuck did you go to law school?
5
OMG love the florist quote! It's nice that he takes the rights of florists so seriously.
Seems like we liberal activist marriage-redefiners hardly have to work at all anymore to make the point that the traditional-bigotry side's arguments just don't make sense....
Seems like we liberal activist marriage-redefiners hardly have to work at all anymore to make the point that the traditional-bigotry side's arguments just don't make sense....
6
These anti- dipshits are all over the map. This sort of a position is exactly what makes this a civil rights issue. Congratulations, Rep Shea, bigotry is a very personal issue - that does not mean you are on the correct side of this.
And, no, this country was not founded on religious liberty. Religious liberty isn't even in the main body of the Constitution for fucks sake - it is an amendment to the original document. And the Pilgrims did not issue the fucking Declaration of Independence for that matter either.
The level of religious asshattery in this state depresses me.
And, no, this country was not founded on religious liberty. Religious liberty isn't even in the main body of the Constitution for fucks sake - it is an amendment to the original document. And the Pilgrims did not issue the fucking Declaration of Independence for that matter either.
The level of religious asshattery in this state depresses me.
7
For every 1 florist, caterer, dressmaker, etc. who wants to be a bigot over this, there are a half-dozen who would love the business. I don't believe that any self-respecting gay or lesbian couple is going to hire known bigots to work their wedding. Seriously, who would do that?
Congratulations, bigots. You've just become a niche market.
Congratulations, bigots. You've just become a niche market.
9
@3 The Rules of Professional conduct say you can't discriminate based on sexual orientation, but there is an exception in that you can refuse to represent clients on matters you have an objection to. So you can't refuse a client just because they are gay, but you can say refuse to do same-sex adoptions.
10
Yeah, he practices podunk law in a Spokane house across the street from a giant vacant lot that used to be a hazardous waste cleanup site. I'm sure the gays will regret not being able to knock on his door for sage legal advice on their same sex marriages.
What a maroon.
What a maroon.
11
I look forward to hiring his shop for my legal, civil same-sex wedding, so he can refuse me and I can sue his ass into bankrupcy.
14
So when did this guy start running his Church as a Business?
Hint: Jesus despised the Pharisees and their commercialization of religion.
Hint: Jesus despised the Pharisees and their commercialization of religion.
15
"Let me be the first one to say: My business will continue to proudly refuse to seat colored people at my traditionally whites-only lunch counters!"
Translation: I am fearful, dumb and ignorant and will die an ignominious death.
Translation: I am fearful, dumb and ignorant and will die an ignominious death.
16
@9 That seems reasonable. Personally, I'm not interested in compelling Mr. Shea to draw up pre-nuptial agreements for same-sex couples.
17
I'm confused ... does he think that if Marriage Equality is passed that he has to get gay-married?
18
Anyone has the right to refuse business. Just be prepared to have your customers refuse to work with you for your beliefs.
Also, glad those hateful florists have a voice in our state! LOL!
Also, glad those hateful florists have a voice in our state! LOL!
20
My email to Shea:
Dear Representative Shea,
Last night, before you voted against marriage equality in the Washington State House, you stated that your business would refuse to take part in any same-sex marriage ceremonies, and you also said that you were voting on behalf of florists who would have to provide services for same-sex couples.
I am a public school teacher. I have been one for the better part of 30 years. As part of my job, under contract and under law, I have to provide my services for all students, regardless of their race, gender, religion, or personal beliefs.
In my career, there have been many times when I have been required to teach students whose personal or religious beliefs I did not share. In some cases, I found their personal or religious beliefs abhorrent.
In many other cases, I have students who have not shared my personal or religious beliefs, and who have perhaps found them abhorrent. They remained in my class, nevertheless, and were graded on the quality of their work, not on the content of their belief system, or mine.
So when I hear people against marriage equality speak out for florists, bakers or wedding planners who may have to (shudder) provide services for same-sex couples, and who will receive pay for doing so, I can't exactly work up much sympathy.
Would you support a Christian grocer who refused to sell food to Jews as a matter of policy? A Jewish banker who refused loans to Christians as a matter of policy? A Muslim police officer who refused, on religious grounds, to intercede in assaults upon either Christians or Jews? Or an Athiest who refused to provide services for believers of any sort?
I don't think so.
You have not adopted a position that protects religious liberty. You have adopted a position that is the very antithesis of religious liberty. Religious liberty protects private beliefs; it does not protect discrimination against those who do not share those beliefs.
Your vote has been cast, but I still urge you to reconsider your positions.
More...
Dear Representative Shea,
Last night, before you voted against marriage equality in the Washington State House, you stated that your business would refuse to take part in any same-sex marriage ceremonies, and you also said that you were voting on behalf of florists who would have to provide services for same-sex couples.
I am a public school teacher. I have been one for the better part of 30 years. As part of my job, under contract and under law, I have to provide my services for all students, regardless of their race, gender, religion, or personal beliefs.
In my career, there have been many times when I have been required to teach students whose personal or religious beliefs I did not share. In some cases, I found their personal or religious beliefs abhorrent.
In many other cases, I have students who have not shared my personal or religious beliefs, and who have perhaps found them abhorrent. They remained in my class, nevertheless, and were graded on the quality of their work, not on the content of their belief system, or mine.
So when I hear people against marriage equality speak out for florists, bakers or wedding planners who may have to (shudder) provide services for same-sex couples, and who will receive pay for doing so, I can't exactly work up much sympathy.
Would you support a Christian grocer who refused to sell food to Jews as a matter of policy? A Jewish banker who refused loans to Christians as a matter of policy? A Muslim police officer who refused, on religious grounds, to intercede in assaults upon either Christians or Jews? Or an Athiest who refused to provide services for believers of any sort?
I don't think so.
You have not adopted a position that protects religious liberty. You have adopted a position that is the very antithesis of religious liberty. Religious liberty protects private beliefs; it does not protect discrimination against those who do not share those beliefs.
Your vote has been cast, but I still urge you to reconsider your positions.
21
We need to be concerned about Shea, not only because of his bigoted stance on marriage equality (and open plan for discrimination), but also because of his believes on government, immigration and more. He is on the Southern Poverty Law Center's "Dirty Dozen" list:
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/pu…
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/pu…
22
As a postscript to my comment (#20, above), let me say that I find the image of hoards of homophobic florists, bakers and wedding planners cowering in fear to be laughable. Most of the ones I've known (the men, anyway) have either been gay themselves, or very gay friendly.
When my husband and I had a committment ceremony four years ago, we made it very plain to the florist, baker, caterer and photographer that they would be providing services for a same-sex couple. Nobody objected. If anyone had, we would have gladly brought our gay dollars to somebody who didn't.
When my husband and I had a committment ceremony four years ago, we made it very plain to the florist, baker, caterer and photographer that they would be providing services for a same-sex couple. Nobody objected. If anyone had, we would have gladly brought our gay dollars to somebody who didn't.
24
Yeah...put a BIG sign in your window, Dumplin', "No Queers!" It'll be just like "No Jews Allowed" or "Irish Need Not Apply."
Sorry, Dumplin', about the the wife, the tulips and all - but at least you can have a wife. And now I can, too.
Don't worry. I won't be buying shit from you anyways.
Sorry, Dumplin', about the the wife, the tulips and all - but at least you can have a wife. And now I can, too.
Don't worry. I won't be buying shit from you anyways.
25
Of all the "cities" i've encountered since i moved out west 18 years ago, Spokane is the Trashiest City. Including Arizona, not including Texas.
26
I wish there were a sign the haters could put on their businesses, so I could know who not to give my straight, gay lovin', business to. How satisfying it would be to drop by to say, "I just spent $$ at the place down the street because you are a homophobic bigot". As it is now, one has to happen upon some incriminating evidence.
28
Is the Republican Party writing off the biggest businesses in Washington State?
Microsoft, Starbucks and Amazon all signed up for ME.
I don't see how we can get around that...
29
@3 and @9: Moreover, as an attorney, when he was admitted to the Bar, Shea had to take an oath which includes the following:
"1. I am fully subject to the laws of the State of Washington and the laws of the United States and will abide by the same."
Granted, publically announcing his intent to violate the anti-discrimination laws of Washington is not going to get him disbarred, but following through on this threat could subject him to discipline.
"1. I am fully subject to the laws of the State of Washington and the laws of the United States and will abide by the same."
Granted, publically announcing his intent to violate the anti-discrimination laws of Washington is not going to get him disbarred, but following through on this threat could subject him to discipline.
30
The great Rep. Maureen Walsh is over the twit's left shoulder. It's worth watching her facial expressions while he talks.
31
@27
Don't write Spokane off entirely- it's not Seattle, but by virtue of being a pretty centrist mix of lefties and righties it's also the most progressive place you're going to find east of the Columbia river, and the sensible people living there deserve better than the likes of Matt Shea. The surrounding counties, though... Idaho can have those, sure.
Don't write Spokane off entirely- it's not Seattle, but by virtue of being a pretty centrist mix of lefties and righties it's also the most progressive place you're going to find east of the Columbia river, and the sensible people living there deserve better than the likes of Matt Shea. The surrounding counties, though... Idaho can have those, sure.
32
Did Ed Murray say his colleagues voting against equality were not bigots? Is there another meaning for the word Bigot that I need to know?
33
@31 is correct.
What if someone goes to his firm to get representation in a gay divorce case?
Will he turn that down ... And support gays being married?
Or will he accept that business?
What if someone goes to his firm to get representation in a gay divorce case?
Will he turn that down ... And support gays being married?
Or will he accept that business?
34
I hate when people claim this country was founded on religious liberty. That's nonsense. Most of the Puritans who came here came here so they could practice the same religious oppression they'd been permitted to practice under Cromwell. They were unhappy about the Restoration of both Charles II and the Church of England, and the revocation of the sumptuary and similar laws. So they came here so they could pass laws prohibiting ... basically everything.
"That which is not forbidden is compulsory."
"That which is not forbidden is compulsory."
36
Can we be fair here? Spokane Valley is to Spokane as Tukwila is to Seattle. Y'all don't claim that shit, and neither do we.
38
@26 A sign.... Why do we have to depend on business owners to self-label themselves?
How about a homophobe alert that could be "tagged" on offending businesses? I propose a black triangle (kind of the opposite of a pink triangle, you know?)
How about a homophobe alert that could be "tagged" on offending businesses? I propose a black triangle (kind of the opposite of a pink triangle, you know?)
39
With the rare exception, listening to the Republican speeches was just like being back in Evangelical Church. *shudder*
Bill Hinkle especially freaked me out by wrapping condescension and judgement in the terminology of "love."
Thank goodness he was immediately followed by Maureen Walsh...
Have they no understanding of the separation of church and state?
Bill Hinkle especially freaked me out by wrapping condescension and judgement in the terminology of "love."
Thank goodness he was immediately followed by Maureen Walsh...
Have they no understanding of the separation of church and state?
41
Here's what I wrote to him:
"Representative Shea, this quote is ridiculous: "This country was not founded on sexual liberty, Mr. Speaker. It was founded on religious liberty. And where those two clash, religious liberty should always win out."
Religious liberty is also freedom from religion, and the freedom to practice any religion, or no religion, as you wish. What deep thoughts do you have to offer about a religion based exclusively on sexual liberty? You see, your logic falls apart (because it is irrational and non-existent).
The truth is that you are a bigot, and you live on the wrong side of history, just like the bigots of yesteryear who opposed interracial marriage (also, largely, on fake religious pretensions).
Here's the deal: your religion is UTTERLY irrelevant when it comes to my basic rights to "life, liberty, and he pursuit of happiness".
Also: Jesus would support marriage equality for gays. No doubt about it."
"Representative Shea, this quote is ridiculous: "This country was not founded on sexual liberty, Mr. Speaker. It was founded on religious liberty. And where those two clash, religious liberty should always win out."
Religious liberty is also freedom from religion, and the freedom to practice any religion, or no religion, as you wish. What deep thoughts do you have to offer about a religion based exclusively on sexual liberty? You see, your logic falls apart (because it is irrational and non-existent).
The truth is that you are a bigot, and you live on the wrong side of history, just like the bigots of yesteryear who opposed interracial marriage (also, largely, on fake religious pretensions).
Here's the deal: your religion is UTTERLY irrelevant when it comes to my basic rights to "life, liberty, and he pursuit of happiness".
Also: Jesus would support marriage equality for gays. No doubt about it."
42
26- yes dear they DO have a sign- it looks like a little fish, or there will be four numbers with the two dots in the middle.
38&40- the pink triangle was the Nazi symbol for homosexual men, for lesbians it was a black triangle (representing the pubic triangle). It was Hitler that was obsessed with gays and hated pink and forever conflated the two.
38&40- the pink triangle was the Nazi symbol for homosexual men, for lesbians it was a black triangle (representing the pubic triangle). It was Hitler that was obsessed with gays and hated pink and forever conflated the two.
43
This guy is my representative. (head-desk, followed up by a double-face palm.)
Again, Christian God, please bless and keep your people FAR away from me. (And mine.)
Again, Christian God, please bless and keep your people FAR away from me. (And mine.)
44
Shea may leave the senate and run for county commissioner. Google his name and divorce. He had a very messy divorce from his first wife. His second wife is a submissive immigrant. You can not compare where he is from Spokane Valley to the city of Spokane.
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