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News & ArtsThursday, February 9, 2012
Olympia Joint Hearing on Marijuana Legalization
Posted by Dominic Holden on Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 7:55 AM
Both house and senate committees will hear testimony on Initiative 502, the initiative to tax and regulate marijuana, beginning at 8:00 a.m. The LIVE FEED IS HERE.
Now, it's totally unrealistic to hope that the legislature will pass I-502, which they could do this session. They don't have the numbers. I-502, which has enough signatures to automatically appear on the November ballot if the legislature does nothing, includes new taxes, so passing it in the legislature would require a two-thirds majority—a majority they don't have for saving children's health care, let alone freeing da weed. But it will be interesting to see who speaks against the measure and what they say: law enforcement officers who want more leeway, medical pot activists who want to drive with active THC in their system, lawmakers who are cowards, hippies who want the perfect initiative and are angry that this isn't it. Let's watch.
2
The committee chair is wearing a dark green striped tie. Doesn't that constitute a conflict of interest?
3
@1 Thanks for getting that one out of the way quickly.
The real question is which rep or senator will make the connection with yesterday's vote as a sign of total moral decay. "Yesterday it was gay marriage, today it's drugs, tomorrow is what? Human sacrifice?!"
The real question is which rep or senator will make the connection with yesterday's vote as a sign of total moral decay. "Yesterday it was gay marriage, today it's drugs, tomorrow is what? Human sacrifice?!"
4
I think Dr. Fring is right that legalizing marijuana at the state level will not get organized crime out of the pot business in Washington state. During most of Prohibition, alcohol was legal under New York state law, yet New York had by far the largest and best organized Prohibition era mafia.
5
I can't help but envision a bitchin' Washington state where gays can legally get totally baked on their wedding day.
7
I think this hearing went well for the Pro I-502 crowd. Panel 1 (pro panel) make clear precise points based on facts and statistics. Panel 2 (anti panel) made wild assumptions based on nothing and was simply trying to scare people into believing the scare tactics and propaganda of the 30's. Do people really think that the drug cartels will be able to lower their prices enough to compete with a state run business. Do people buy moonshine over running the to the liquor store?
8
@7 You don't think more school children would smoke pot if it was legal? Under the current system they can get weed if they really want it, but prohibition makes doing so a bit more difficult. Laws against under-age drinking are easy enough to circumvent, but they have been shown to substantially reduce alcohol consumption by teenagers.
9
@8 No, prohibition makes it easier, because instead of having to find someone who is old enough and willing to purchase it for you (which is the case with school children and alcohol), all you have to do is talk your classmate who sells pot. Marijuana was soooo much easier to get ahold of in high school than beer or (especially) liquor.
10
@8 - You seem to accidentally stumble into your own counterpoint. Laws against under-age drink (arguably) work precisely because alcohol is generally purchased through legal channels; even circumnavigating the regulations usually requires some agent to purchase product legally, then share it or distribute it illegally. On the surface, this would make acquisition of alcohol seem like the path of least resistance, but that's not what most teens are reporting. Why? Because it's difficult to make anyone accountable if all trade occurs on the black market.
12
'active thc'... more lies from dominic. the point is that the test cannot determine 'active thc.' and this notion of 'active thc' is a huge load of bullshit that will make any regular smoker guilty of a dui every time they get behind the wheel, despite the fact that there is no evidence of intoxication. what an asshole you are on this issue. it is quite astounding.
13
@9 & 10 You may be right. California's 'medical' marijuana law doesn't seem to have effected marijuana use by teenagers one way or the other.
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@8: the percentage of kids in the Netherlands who smoke pot is lower than the percentage of US kids. Don't have ready access to data from Portugal , but I think it's true there as well.
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@15 Considering that marijuana remains illegal in both Portugal and the Netherlands I'm not sure how any of that is relevant.
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@12 If you believe that cops are going to bother to haul people in for a blood test because they suspect they smoked pot 2 days ago then I think perhaps you have been smoking too much pot.
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@17 If you had taken the time to read the wikipedia article you posted a link to you would know that: a. The Netherlands has a medical marijuana law similar to California's. b. The Dutch authorities rarely enforce laws prohibiting the possession/use of small amounts of marijuana. and c. Marijuana is still mostly illegal, even in Amsterdam.
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@20 Even my parents are against the drug war these days chief. How does a sane person even rationalize this view you are clinging to? Do you just block out of your mind the stupefying damage wrought by this utterly failed and thoroughly odious policy? Tens of thousands of dead people, hundreds of thousands locked up, lives devastated, this is all worth it to keep a few more teenagers from getting high?
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@21 I do not believe that there is a viable alternative to drug prohibition, but I try to keep an open mind on the subject.
23
Ken @ 20:
You conveniently ignore Portugal.
I will concede that you are technically correct re the Netherlands, but the difference is more one of semantics than fact. It's the difference between de jure and de facto.
The on the ground reality in much of the Netherlands is that possession and use of small amounts of marijuana is de facto legal. And the serious debate over the past few years has not been about closing the coffeeshops and rolling back tolerance, but about limiting them and other drug venues to citizens.
I am sorry you don't see a viable alternative to prohibition, but am glad you're trying to keep an open mind.
You conveniently ignore Portugal.
I will concede that you are technically correct re the Netherlands, but the difference is more one of semantics than fact. It's the difference between de jure and de facto.
The on the ground reality in much of the Netherlands is that possession and use of small amounts of marijuana is de facto legal. And the serious debate over the past few years has not been about closing the coffeeshops and rolling back tolerance, but about limiting them and other drug venues to citizens.
I am sorry you don't see a viable alternative to prohibition, but am glad you're trying to keep an open mind.
24
@23
"You conveniently ignore Portugal."
What people mean when they say 'Drugs are legal in Portugal' is that simple possession of small amounts of illegal drugs is not punishable by imprisonment. In Portugal people still go to jail for dealing, manufacturing, or trafficking illegal drugs. I could be wrong, but I don't think there is any legal way to grow or sell pot in Portugal.
"The on the ground reality in much of the Netherlands is that possession and use of small amounts of marijuana is de facto legal."
The same could be said of many places in the United States.
"You conveniently ignore Portugal."
What people mean when they say 'Drugs are legal in Portugal' is that simple possession of small amounts of illegal drugs is not punishable by imprisonment. In Portugal people still go to jail for dealing, manufacturing, or trafficking illegal drugs. I could be wrong, but I don't think there is any legal way to grow or sell pot in Portugal.
"The on the ground reality in much of the Netherlands is that possession and use of small amounts of marijuana is de facto legal."
The same could be said of many places in the United States.
25
Although you are correct that there may be a few places in the US that have come close(r) to tolerance, there is nowhere in the US that comes close to the Netherlands.
You are correct re Portugal. But, the amount of arrests/prosecutions has plummeted and the criminal justice system savings are huge.
But, this circles back to my initial point: that in countries that have come the closest to ending prohibition we see lower levels of drug use than we do in the US (especially among young people).
I'm not sure that legalization will result in lower drug use in the US (and, honestly, I don't care). I know it will reduce the amount of people arrested, prosecuted and convicted for drug offenses, I believe it will reduce the amount of drug-related crime, and I hope it will reduce the amount of violence associated with the drug trade in Latin America and elsewhere.
You are correct re Portugal. But, the amount of arrests/prosecutions has plummeted and the criminal justice system savings are huge.
But, this circles back to my initial point: that in countries that have come the closest to ending prohibition we see lower levels of drug use than we do in the US (especially among young people).
I'm not sure that legalization will result in lower drug use in the US (and, honestly, I don't care). I know it will reduce the amount of people arrested, prosecuted and convicted for drug offenses, I believe it will reduce the amount of drug-related crime, and I hope it will reduce the amount of violence associated with the drug trade in Latin America and elsewhere.
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