Slog
News & ArtsWednesday, February 8, 2012
Gay Marriage
Liveblogging the Washington State House Debate and Vote on IN FAVOR OF GAY MARRIAGE
Posted by Eli Sanders on Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 1:03 PM
- E.S.
- Representative Jamie Pederesen (D-43), doing some last-minute typing on the house floor before the debate began.
Watch the livestream here.
1:07 p.m. We begin with attempts—once again—to add another amendment that would protect people whose "conscience" prohibits them from supporting gay marriages. Rep. Roger Goodman (D-45) notes that the bill already includes such protections, and that this new proposed amendment would sneakily blow a hole in Washington's equal protection laws. The proposed amendment is voted down.
1:11 p.m. A Republican attempt to add the text of the First Amendment to the bill. Rep. Larie Jinkins (D-27) says there is no need to "recodify" the U.S. Constitution by adding it to this bill. It's already the law of the land. The amendment is voted down.
1:15 p.m. A Republican attempt to force gay couples to marry using the "traditional" terms of "husband and wife." The amendment is voted down—just like the others—53 to 45.
- E.S.
- Republican State Senators Steve Litzow and Cheryl Pflug.
1:19 p.m. Watching from the wings: Cheryl Pflug and Steve Litzow, the first two Republican state senators to come out in favor of gay marriage.
1:30 p.m. More unfriendly amendments voted down, these dealing with attempts to change "inconsistencies" in the bill's language and an attempt to send the bill immediately to a public vote.
1:33 p.m. And now we're into the speeches by legislators explaining how they'll vote and why. First up, Rep. Jamie Pedersen (D-43). "Our children deserve to grow up in a state that treats their family with equal dignity," he says. (And notes that he's a member of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, and goes to services with his family every week.)
- E.S.
- Representative Jay Rodne (R-5)
1:39 p.m. Rep. Jay Rodne (R-5) says "this is not a civil rights issue." He also quotes the Washington State Supreme Court as saying there is no right to a same-sex marriage to be found in our state's constitution. (Of course, the court also said in its gay marriage ruling that nothing prohibited the state legislature from creating gay marriage rights via statute—which is what's about to happen today.) "Marriage is about life," Rodne continues. "It's not about self-validation or self-actualization." And: "This bill, Mr. Speaker, severs the unique and historical underpinnings of marriage, and it harms children." And! If this kind of bill can pass, Rodne says, "I don't know if I want to be here."
1:49 p.m. Well! One thing we learned from Rep. Rodne's speech: The time limits on speeches are longer in the house than they were in the senate (where senators' remarks were limited to three minutes). Rodne's speech seemed to go on and on... But was ultimately gaveled and cut off. Trying to figure out what the time limit on speeches is in this chamber.
1:54 p.m. Meanwhile, from the Secretary of State's office:
As you may recall, Stephen Pidgeon, an Everett attorney who has worked with national anti-gay marriage forces, filed I-1192 back on Jan. 9. The ballot title and summary were issued on Jan. 30, and that language is posted on our 2012 initiatives page (drill down on the yellow block at 1192), and pasted here for your convenience:
Ballot Title
Initiative Measure No. 1192 concerns the definition of marriage.
This measure would define marriage as a civil contract between one man and one woman and prohibit marriage when the parties are persons other than one man and one woman.
Should this measure be enacted into law?
Yes [ ] No [ ]Ballot Measure Summary
This measure would define marriage as a civil contract between one man and one woman. It would also prohibit marriage if the parties to the marriage are persons other than one man and one woman.
This is separate and apart, however, from the referendum that's likely to be filed as soon as Gov. Gregoire signs marriage equality into law.
- E.S.
- Rep. Laurie Jinkins (D-27)
2:01 p.m. Rep. Laurie Jinkins talks about her lesbian partner, and their family, and—contra Rodne—says she is voting yes to strengthen families.
- E.S.
- Rep. Brad Klippert (R-8)
2:06 p.m. Rep. Brad Klippert (R-8) cites the testimony of the 13-year-old girl who I posted yesterday morning! (The one who spoke about how you need a left shoe and a right shoe, therefore no gay marriage.) Also he cites Genesis as proof of how God created woman as a "helpmate" for man, and Leviticus as proof that "man shall not lie with a man."
2:16 p.m. Anne Levinson, watching from the house gallery, e-mails:
Representative Hunt brought tears to all of us in the gallery here to witness this momentous day with his eloquent and moving description of standing up for the kids he saw grow up in his family rec room. Then he closed by saying his children, wife of 41 years and 91-year old mother all wanted him to vote yes. It was truly a wonderful moment.
2:19 p.m. Rep. Jim McCune (R-2) warns: "God will hold us accountable for what happens here today."
2:30 p.m. And... We've been here an hour and a half.
- E.S.
- Rep. Maureen Walsh (R-16)
2:34 p.m. The first Republican to speak in favor of marriage equality—and her lesbian daughter! and her own current lack of sex!—is Maureen Walsh (R-16).
2:42 p.m. Just found out what the time limit on each of these speeches is: 10 minutes. Settle in...
2:57 p.m. Sorry for the slow-blogging. WiFi is in and out in this chamber.
3:02 p.m. Entering our third hour. Openly gay Rep. Marco Liias (D-21) talks about his partner and the "justice" of this bill as Senators Ed Murray and Lisa Brown—as well as Governor Chris Gregoire—look on from the wings.
- E.S.
- Gov. Chris Gregoire, keeping watch.
3:17 p.m. More talk about all the florists and cake-bakers and tuxedo renters and wedding planners whose consciences are about to be crushed by this... "And they were florists," Rep. Matt Shea (R-4) says of his forebearers. "They raised tulips!"
3:24 p.m. VOTING...
3:25 p.m. Marriage bill PASSES, 55 to 43, with two Republicans—Maureen Walsh and Glenn Anderson—joining the majority (and two Democrats—Christopher Hurst and Mark Miloscia—joining the minority).
- E.S.
- The house gallery as the bill passed.
3:48 p.m. A statement from Governor Gregoire:
This is truly a historic day in Washington state, and one where I couldn’t be more proud. With today’s vote, we tell the nation that Washington state will no longer deny our citizens the opportunity to marry the person they love. We tell every child of same-sex couples that their family is every bit as equal and important as all other families in our state. And we take a major step toward completing a long and important journey to end discrimination based on sexual orientation.
I commend our House members and thank Rep. Jamie Pedersen for sponsoring this bill. Our legislators showed courage, respect, and professionalism. I look forward to signing this piece of legislation, and putting into law an end to an era of discrimination.
- E.S.
- Sen. Ed Murray (D-43) hugs Rep. Maureen Walsh (R-16), who voted yea and spoke about her lesbian daughter's right to marry.
- E.S.
- Tears, cheers, and lots of congratulations in the wings of the Democratic side of the chamber.
2
This has a quite different feel than the Senate debate. Interested.
Wait...did he just say "...molested..."?
Wait...did he just say "...molested..."?
4
Eli, do you know why the supporters aren't waiting until later in the session, so that the opponents have less time to collect signatures?
Does anyone know?
(I would think they would wait as long as possible)
Does anyone know?
(I would think they would wait as long as possible)
6
I'm alternating between wanting to punch some of the representatives and hug others. Rodne is a huge douche.
7
@3 Too bad Gregoire isn't going to come out wearing a bikini holding a "Round 3" sign.
Or maybe it's not too bad...thoughts?
Or maybe it's not too bad...thoughts?
11
I love how Rodne keeps saying "there should be no objection" to each of his various amendments - he's coming across as a patronizing nut job. Way to go, dude.
12
Yes Rodne why do you care so damn much? I don't care about your F'ing religion, leave me and my wife alone.
13
@4 I think they know that they'll have enough money to get the signatures no matter what so why bother.
14
Maybe it's just me, but I can't help thinking a lawmaker SHOULD be ashamed to say he's legislating based on his faith.
15
@4 and 13
Why bother? Because if the Prop 8 ruling in California stands it has implications for a voter referendum to overturn marriage equality in Washington.
Why bother? Because if the Prop 8 ruling in California stands it has implications for a voter referendum to overturn marriage equality in Washington.
16
Christ, why won't Rodne shut up? "This issue isn't about civil rights." Fuck you asshole. It goddamn is about civil rights.
18
There is no right in the Constitution YET, but that doesn't mean it isn't a civil right. Rodne, shut up.
20
So...I was adopted and reared by people who were not my biological parents. My biological mother had four other children, each of which had children before they reached 20 years old and none actually finished high school.
I must be fraked up then. I guess I shouldn't be in grad school....
I must be fraked up then. I guess I shouldn't be in grad school....
21
No, we're not going to undermine the institution of marriage because of an inconvenience. We're not going to undermine the institution of marriage at all.
22
Wait! Have we considered that people will stop fucking if we legalize gay marriage? Well stop fucking the make babies sense anyways.Thanks Jay Rodne, I'm opposed now. We'll go extinct!!!!
24
OMG "VALIDATION"? That fucker. I don't give a shit what you think about gay marriage. I don't need you to validate shit, you fuck. RODNE IS A COLOSSAL FUCKTARD
25
Fucking hell, are we running out of people, Rodne? Is that why promoting babies is so goddamn important?
26
Marriage....it's about the transfer of property. Selling your prepubescent daughter to another guy so you can create a stable society.
Traditional values...babies...wakka wakka wakka
Traditional values...babies...wakka wakka wakka
27
This guy makes me want to punch a wall and I have a feeling it's about to get worse as he goes into "sensitive" subject matter.
OOH THE LIBERAL AGENDA IS RUINING THE WORLD!
OOH THE LIBERAL AGENDA IS RUINING THE WORLD!
28
I wish the camera would pan around and show the other members in the room. I want to see their reactions.
30
Wait...what? Severed by force of law? I don't get it. Is he just talking out his ass now? Never mind...he's been talking out his ass since he started.
34
WTF is he talking about? Severing a child's relationship with a biological parent? Isn't this idiot's time up yet?
35
I can't help but hope that Rodne will watch his own speeches 20 years from now (maybe less!) and be humiliated that he took such an un-Christian stand.
40
Are you *sure* it's not okay for us to talk about how much we want to punch bigoted assholes in the face? Because, really, if I ever came across this Rodne dude in a dark alley....
42
Mr. Rodne, I must ask you in the words of Joseph Welch, "Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"
43
@15 That has nothing to do with it. The vote will be in November regardless of when the leg passes it in this session and there is no reason to wait a whole year just to see if the court upholds the ruling in that case.
Plus since we have never had gay marriage in the first place the ruling won't apply to us. The court was very careful to say that.
Plus since we have never had gay marriage in the first place the ruling won't apply to us. The court was very careful to say that.
44
"marriage will serve to sever the relationship of that child with one of that child's biological parents."
WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT MEAN??
WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT MEAN??
45
@15
I wish it did but the ruling does not. It was a very narrow ruling based on the fact that Prop 8 took away marriage rights already granted in the state.
In WA, a referendum would take away a right not given yet, since the law only takes effect after opponents have time to turn in signatures. If they turn in enough signatures, then the law is not implemented until after the November vote.
So marriage will not be granted in WA before the referendum as it was in CA.
I wish it did but the ruling does not. It was a very narrow ruling based on the fact that Prop 8 took away marriage rights already granted in the state.
In WA, a referendum would take away a right not given yet, since the law only takes effect after opponents have time to turn in signatures. If they turn in enough signatures, then the law is not implemented until after the November vote.
So marriage will not be granted in WA before the referendum as it was in CA.
46
Who/where are the Litzow/Pflugs of the House? Time for them to speak up and not let Rodne be their lone, embarrassingly bigoted voice.
47
My chequebook just flew open and my pen is poised to write a donation cheque to whoever runs against this Rodne douchecanoe.
53
**Face Palm**
"Natural Law perspective"....Please, no. Come on bigots...you gotta fine more ways to hide your hate & fear.
"Natural Law perspective"....Please, no. Come on bigots...you gotta fine more ways to hide your hate & fear.
54
"For the kids that hung out in my basement I make this vote, for my two kids I make this vote, for my wife of 41 years I make this vote, for my 91 year old grandmother I make this vote today"
So freaking cute. cute. cute. cute. I am so glad that I can live stream some of this since I am not in class. :)
So freaking cute. cute. cute. cute. I am so glad that I can live stream some of this since I am not in class. :)
55
Apparently discrimination now = "freedom of expression"
God forbid you have to treat gays like people too. Nothing makes me hate people like this shit does.
God forbid you have to treat gays like people too. Nothing makes me hate people like this shit does.
57
WTF!!! They didn't "have" to! They chose not to offer adoptions any more because they wanted to continue to discriminate. They could have kept it up, but they chose to hate.
You want a traditional marriage? See my pic. That's as traditional as it gets...
You want a traditional marriage? See my pic. That's as traditional as it gets...
61
If you have to enforce it, it is not a natural law. It's just something made up you are trying to justify without being able to give people a good reason why.
64
Norma Smith is being strangely level headed. I don't agree with her position but I agree with her rhetoric.
65
I don't quite get how, as a small business owner, this bill affects me adversely, according to Rep. Norma Smith. Did I really just hear her say that?
66
My favorite part of this lady speaking, "so, I am not a lawyer, I'm just a mom, but I think this bill doesn't protect individuals".
Uh, LOL WAT.
Also," we need to protect the freedom of religious people", but not gay people. UGH.
Uh, LOL WAT.
Also," we need to protect the freedom of religious people", but not gay people. UGH.
69
Uh, Rep. Smith - private businesses *already* can't discriminate based on orientation. That law's already on the books, sweetie.
And @medevialistbrian: thanks for the literal LOL for "douchecanoe." My checkbook is with yours.
And @medevialistbrian: thanks for the literal LOL for "douchecanoe." My checkbook is with yours.
72
Somebody put a plastic bag over Klippert's head quick - he's tearily hyperventilating from rightousness. What do you mean, paper bag? I said plastic, and hold it tight.
74
This Klippert guy is douche. Quoting Leviticus?!?! Fucking a.
Maybe I have made a huge mistake watching this thing live. So annoying.
Maybe I have made a huge mistake watching this thing live. So annoying.
75
Note: Murphy V. Ramsey was decided in 1885.
Rep. Klippert, please cite all pertinent information when quoting other sources.
Rep. Klippert, please cite all pertinent information when quoting other sources.
76
When I make my own new country, one of the rules is gonna be that any time a legislator cites scripture in session, a loud buzzer will drown them out.
77
I'm so sick of them saying that children need the strength and discipline that a father gives and the love and nurturing from a mother. That is so sexist! Mothers can be disiplinarians and no parent ever showed love and nurturing like my father did. Having two parents who are women doesn't mean that a child will not know strenght, and having two parents who are men doesn't mean the child will not know love.
80
Gah! I can't watch any more of this. I'll spend half the afternoon in a rage. We already know it's going to pass. I don't need the stress.
81
I agree! I wish this whole same-sex marriage thing would go away too! Just quit fucking around with your bigotry and move on to the important things! Civil rights should not be an issue like this.
Quit with the bigots. Can I fast forward somehow?
Quit with the bigots. Can I fast forward somehow?
82
"What protects small business owners from not having to offer services to married gays if they object to them?"
Good question! How about this question:
"What protects small business owners from not having to offer services to married blacks and whites if they object to them?"
Good question! How about this question:
"What protects small business owners from not having to offer services to married blacks and whites if they object to them?"
83
At least it's nice to see that these peoples' small-minded idiocy is being recorded with their names for posterity. In a hundred years, Klippert's descendants will be looking up info on dear old great-grand-dad, and they'll find out that he was citing Leviticus and a thirteen year old girl for why he's anti-equality.
84
I can think of a really quick, easy way to start dealing with other, more important issues. A really really quick way to make the whole issue go away.
86
OMG seriously you stand in opposition? With that sissy lisp? SERIOUSLY? Ugh. I mean ... I hate stereotyping ... but sometimes it's just fucking hilarious. "Shoshiety." Hehehe. I know's mean. "Marriagesh Exshishst for procreashun ..." He's either gay or drunk.
89
All these people talking about how children need a mother and a father are ignoring a couple of obvious points:
1) This is a MARRIAGE bill, not an ADOPTION bill, and to the best of my knowledge, nothing requires that children only be adopted by two parents of opposite sexes.
2) Most children up for adoption don't have a biological mother and father in the picture--which is why they're up for adoption to begin with.
1) This is a MARRIAGE bill, not an ADOPTION bill, and to the best of my knowledge, nothing requires that children only be adopted by two parents of opposite sexes.
2) Most children up for adoption don't have a biological mother and father in the picture--which is why they're up for adoption to begin with.
90
Is he seriously trying to "respect the establishment of religion"? And he's blaming the fags for single parents and divorce?
91
"Marriage has been deeply woven into our countries history" -- Yeah! Back to traditional marriage, where women are sold/bought, only people from the same race can marry. Whooo yeah! No divorce! Traditional marriage all the way.
/sarcasm
Also, this guys sounds like a total crackpot. He seriously just said he was upset that we took religion out of government. Wow.
/sarcasm
Also, this guys sounds like a total crackpot. He seriously just said he was upset that we took religion out of government. Wow.
95
STOP CITING RELIGION AS AN EXCUSE TO PROMOTE DISCRIMINATION!!! The Episcopal Church that I grew up in loves the gays (and women, and minorities, and pretty much everyone- which is what religion should be). They ordain gay ministers and support gay marriage. So when you talk about God's law and how God hates gays, you're not talking about any God I know. What about my religious freedom?
96
Did this guy just say that God set America as king of nations??? Holy shit. I never save seen Dominionism live before.
Also: this fellow has a very unique voice!
Also: this fellow has a very unique voice!
97
Just a suggestion for future live blogs - it's really helpful to readers if the posts display in reverse chronological order (latest first).
98
I hope we can remember the wingnuts are so emotional today because they know they're about to lose the vote. We can take heart from that.
99
I don't get the religious freedom angle. You're still free to disapprove of gay marriage. You're still free to tell your kids you disapprove of gay marriage. You're still free to marry someone of the opposite sex. Where's the loss of freedom?
101
I have immense respect for the gay and lesbian legislators sitting in that room who are listening to their co-workers say these disgusting, hateful things about them. Props, I could not do and not trip a hater in the hallway after.
105
@Brad in Seattle *facepalm* perhaps you need to go look at the videos on ThinkB4YouSpeak - http://thinkb4youspeak.com/
111
Jesus fucking Christ, if I hear one more small-government Republican squawking and pontificating on THE CHILDREN when they have a track record of voting against comprehensive sex ed, early childhood care, pre- and post-natal care, and everything else that benefits children in a very real way, I am going to lose my shit.
124
Regarding Jim McCune's comment: If God is worried about same-sex marriage, He can register to vote and cast His ballot along with everyone else. Despite some people's ferverent wish, this is still a democracy, not an absolute monarchy.
129
Is Anderson on our side? Cause if he's not this speech is probably going to make me throw something heavy a long way. If he is, that's two R's in a row on our side.
130
Rep. Walsh gets the blue ribbon for best speech so far. Just beautiful and moving. And pretty damned funny too.
131
BTW, you guys, Rep Walsh just made me cry. You can contact her here:
https://dlr.leg.wa.gov/MemberEmail/MailF…
https://dlr.leg.wa.gov/MemberEmail/MailF…
133
Glen Anderson is actually bringing up separate but equal is inherently unequal! I've been saying that ever since ref 71.
134
all these conservative arguments comes across like one of those inflatable balloon guys they have at car dealerships, flailing their arms and yelling irreverently about GOD and THE CHILDREN and FAITH without a goddamn ounce of logic.
146
Did I really just hear an antigay marriage argument pulled from a freaking Jack In the Box commercial?
147
Hargrove is using a Jack in the Box commercial to defend the reasons why he is against same sex marriage. Haaaaahahahaha.
150
Apparently we traded two great Republicans for one Democrat justifying his no vote based on a Jack In The Box commercial.
154
If my daughter says that, I've been saving up for years a gushing "Well done, Saffron!" I doubt she'll get the reference...
155
I'm so lost on what Hargrove is getting at. Anyone help me out here? He's saying that we should not be silent when we know someone is making a choice between two things and one of them is inherently unequal ... I thought he was getting at "domestic partnership" versus "marriage" ... But now he's gone on to say that the choice is really "no marriage" versus "heterosexual marriage". I'm confused.
158
Wow, Hargrove. Freakishly bad logic. He really thought he was going to get folks to swing from Yes to No?
160
So Hargrove is saying vote no and don't eat at Jack In The Box? For some reason this makes me think of the punchline to the joke when e. Coli was killing people with JITB's burgers. So Mr. Hargrove, you too can "Eat shit and die."
163
It's so interesting to me that (and I've had this experience many times before) I can hear people speaking on this subject, legislators I know nothing about, and in the few moments before their party appears on the screen and before the thrust of their argument becomes clear, it becomes obvious what side they're on.
Sometimes it's tension in the voice, sometimes it's too-honeyed tones, sometimes it's defensiveness in the preamble or too much beating around the bush, but their intent comes across. They could probably limit discussion to ten seconds apiece.
Sometimes it's tension in the voice, sometimes it's too-honeyed tones, sometimes it's defensiveness in the preamble or too much beating around the bush, but their intent comes across. They could probably limit discussion to ten seconds apiece.
165
"This bill isn't about rights, and it isn't about judgment."
Oh really, Jan Angel?
I wish she'd pull her head out of her ass and stop talking about "traditional marriage" as if she would even be allowed to speak out 100 years ago by her husband, let alone be allowed to be in government, let alone be allowed to vote.
Stupid, stupid woman.
Oh really, Jan Angel?
I wish she'd pull her head out of her ass and stop talking about "traditional marriage" as if she would even be allowed to speak out 100 years ago by her husband, let alone be allowed to be in government, let alone be allowed to vote.
Stupid, stupid woman.
166
Every other representitive quotes scripture or makes reference to their christian upbringing and how that justifies their legislation. It's god damn 2012 and we have to deal with this shit.
170
Rep. Maureen Walsh shilling for a date is totally the highlight of this discussion. I love that woman!
175
You want Old Testament law, you live full Old Testament-style. You want to talk Christian, you find the part where Jesus says gays can't marry. You want Sharia, move to Saudi Arabia. Otherwise, shut your theological pie-hole.
176
Oh! Oh! Does Mr. Overstreet wish to base this decision only on objective fact? Because I am MORE than willing to do that!
177
Am I at church? Good GOD, they are talking about Christiany things more than I hear at some masses.
181
Any religious squat who invokes the Dec. of Independence should be forced to read Jefferson's edited bible.
184
Hey Overstreet, asshole: you seem to be worshipping a false God. God is a loving God. You're worshipping something, but it sure ain't Jesus.
185
As someone who is in seminary I am shocked to learn that the bulk of our state representatives are theologians and ordained ministers.
Honestly though, gag. Just gag. Why do they keep talking about God and Jesus and why do they keep getting the story all wrong?
Honestly though, gag. Just gag. Why do they keep talking about God and Jesus and why do they keep getting the story all wrong?
188
@175 But, but, Imaginary-Jeez's associates said it! (Paul, maybe?) Isn't the alleged friend of an ahistorical figure good enough to dictate our lives?
190
I started counting the number of times the words "god", "christ", "lord", or any version of "him" about 45 minutes ago, I've counted 25 so far.
191
All right. I'm done. I can't stand any more of this stupid bullshit, repeating the same stupid debunked bullshit over and over and over. Call me when the stupid fucking assholes lose.
192
We need more atheists in office, that's for sure.
I'm tired of Christians, even the liberal ones, talking about their religion. I don't care. Vote according to what's right, not what your mythology teaches you.
Ugh!
I'm tired of Christians, even the liberal ones, talking about their religion. I don't care. Vote according to what's right, not what your mythology teaches you.
Ugh!
193
I don't think I heard about Jesus this much the last time I went to church. Which, to be fair, was a long time ago and at 5AM so I could be wrong. But I'm pretty sure Easter Sunday mass talked less about Jesus and the "Supreme Being" than I have here. Also, the Jesus I heard about at church wasn't so fucking judgey. For the love of all that's good and right: leave your religion out of my laws.
199
Yeah, you can just hear the lawyers drooling over the prospect of suing the florists. 'Cause that's where the BIG money is!!
200
Sexual liberty? I am already allowed to have sex. This is about marriage equality. Stop thinking about my sex life, Shea, you pervert!
201
Excuse me, but how many homophobic bakers, florists and wedding planners are there?
Pardon me for stereotyping, but I've never known a wedding planner who wasn't a big, fat homo himself.
Pardon me for stereotyping, but I've never known a wedding planner who wasn't a big, fat homo himself.
202
Not sure how much longer I can listen to this. I get these horrible urges to throw my computer out the window.
Anyone else notice that the bigots all start off where you think they might be for the bill, but then spew the most horrible shit. UGH.
Anyone else notice that the bigots all start off where you think they might be for the bill, but then spew the most horrible shit. UGH.
216
So many gay couples will want to use a wedding florist or caterer who looks at them like they crawled out from under a rock.
219
One more step in a long, hard slog (heh). Congratulations, all. I wish I could hoist one with you on Cap Hill tonight.
220
And we're done. Congrats Washington state, now lets get Chris to sign it ASAP, then we'll start the ballot fight. Bring it.
221
Back to the "we need to protect the florists" line of argument.
I teach in a public school. I am required by contract--and by law--to provide my services fairly and impartially to ALL students, no matter what their race/religion/sexual orientation/political beliefs happen to be. And I do it. I'm gay, and I teach the homophobic students. I'm liberal and I teach the conservative students. I am agnostic, and I teach the devoutly religious students. And I do it without breaking a sweat.
So, excuse me, but those allged hoardes of florists who don't want to provide flowers to a same-sex couple can just suck it up, and do as I've done for the best part of thirty years.
And, frankly, if marriage equality becomes the law, those florists, bakers and wedding planners will see their businesses BOOM!
I teach in a public school. I am required by contract--and by law--to provide my services fairly and impartially to ALL students, no matter what their race/religion/sexual orientation/political beliefs happen to be. And I do it. I'm gay, and I teach the homophobic students. I'm liberal and I teach the conservative students. I am agnostic, and I teach the devoutly religious students. And I do it without breaking a sweat.
So, excuse me, but those allged hoardes of florists who don't want to provide flowers to a same-sex couple can just suck it up, and do as I've done for the best part of thirty years.
And, frankly, if marriage equality becomes the law, those florists, bakers and wedding planners will see their businesses BOOM!
228
What gay couple in their right mind will pick a bigotted florist anyway? Ten to one you could tell by their crappy aesthetic where they stand.
230
Great.
But doesn't the Prop 8 ruling by the CA State Supreme Court make the whole thing moot?
Seems like a lot of grandstanding by Democrats for something that is redundant.
232
To: Washington State Legislature
Apparently you've decided that the whiny interests of a self selecting three percent of the population choosing depravity and vice trump your duty to the decent citizens who make up 97% of your constituency. You're wrong. But the good news is that many of you will have a long private career to consider how wrong come your re-election campaign.
Oh, and fuck you. Seriously. Fuck you. With a splintery broom handle, preferably.
To the Slog deviants:
I'd pass the same wish on to you, but most of you would enjoy the broom handle. I'd tell you to go to hell, but of course you're making fine progress toward that goal all on your own. I actually can't wish on you anything worse than being the subhuman deviant scum you are.
Apparently you've decided that the whiny interests of a self selecting three percent of the population choosing depravity and vice trump your duty to the decent citizens who make up 97% of your constituency. You're wrong. But the good news is that many of you will have a long private career to consider how wrong come your re-election campaign.
Oh, and fuck you. Seriously. Fuck you. With a splintery broom handle, preferably.
To the Slog deviants:
I'd pass the same wish on to you, but most of you would enjoy the broom handle. I'd tell you to go to hell, but of course you're making fine progress toward that goal all on your own. I actually can't wish on you anything worse than being the subhuman deviant scum you are.
234
how very Christian of you, seattleblues! and folks, that big noise you just heard from redmond was reverend ken's head exploding.
236
Bless you, Seattleblues. Thank you for the compliment. May God bless you, too, with the same kindness you love your neighbors with.
Kind regards,
k
Kind regards,
k
237
@235
You seem to have forgotten something.
See, since the legislators decided fags and dykes were the only citizens with rights those of us who don't suffer from the mental illness of homosexuality get to speak now. Remember the referendum process, Joey Boy?
And when these apologists for fags and dykes come up for re-election don't imagine decent citizens will forget or forgive their vote today.
You seem to have forgotten something.
See, since the legislators decided fags and dykes were the only citizens with rights those of us who don't suffer from the mental illness of homosexuality get to speak now. Remember the referendum process, Joey Boy?
And when these apologists for fags and dykes come up for re-election don't imagine decent citizens will forget or forgive their vote today.
240
@236
Where I live rats from surrounding fields and forest try to use our home for winter quarters every fall. They're diseased, and they carry disease. Allowed to do so, they tear up the wiring and insulation and they make bad smells.
They are my neighbors in the same sense the fags and dykes trying to tear up my culture and spread their depravity are. And both merit the same abhorrence and disgust.
Where I live rats from surrounding fields and forest try to use our home for winter quarters every fall. They're diseased, and they carry disease. Allowed to do so, they tear up the wiring and insulation and they make bad smells.
They are my neighbors in the same sense the fags and dykes trying to tear up my culture and spread their depravity are. And both merit the same abhorrence and disgust.
242
So. Damn. Proud. of my state today...
SB, you're getting spittle on your monitor.. I guess it must be tough to realize that you are a dying breed, that, just like the dinosaurs, your day on Earth is done.
People just are no longer willing to discriminate against their neighbors, their co-workers, their family members... Bigotry is bigotry, and more and more humans are saying "Enough!" That's what we're seeing today, an expansion of basic civil rights that is reflective of an expanding consciousness of what is right, and what is not.
Roll with the tide and be uplifted, or refuse to grow and be left behind in your little cul-de-sac of hate.
SB, you're getting spittle on your monitor.. I guess it must be tough to realize that you are a dying breed, that, just like the dinosaurs, your day on Earth is done.
People just are no longer willing to discriminate against their neighbors, their co-workers, their family members... Bigotry is bigotry, and more and more humans are saying "Enough!" That's what we're seeing today, an expansion of basic civil rights that is reflective of an expanding consciousness of what is right, and what is not.
Roll with the tide and be uplifted, or refuse to grow and be left behind in your little cul-de-sac of hate.
243
@241
Oh, well, if you think that's fun you really have a treat coming. The referendum in which fags and dykes are taught their civic duties, and fag and dyke apologist legislators theirs, that should make you laugh uproariously!
Oh, well, if you think that's fun you really have a treat coming. The referendum in which fags and dykes are taught their civic duties, and fag and dyke apologist legislators theirs, that should make you laugh uproariously!
244
@241, it's funny when he hits the bottle on occasions like this. He's gonna send his mom out for more Natty Ice before long.
245
@ 240,
Words spoken like a true Christian soul. One can imagine Jesus himself in your words. You're evangelical powers are stunning. May God reward you.
And, maybe you should think about moving if you've chosen to buy a home in such a pitiful location? It sounds like you made a poor choice.
Words spoken like a true Christian soul. One can imagine Jesus himself in your words. You're evangelical powers are stunning. May God reward you.
And, maybe you should think about moving if you've chosen to buy a home in such a pitiful location? It sounds like you made a poor choice.
248
@245
Seattle? Yeah. It is full of rats, both of the human and literal variety.
The animals can't help themselves. I set poison and traps not out of animus but to protect our home and health. It actually bothers me to dispose of the corpses, since the animal was just doing what it needed to survive without trying to hurt others. If I could keep them from getting into the house I'd be happier not to kill them.
It's the human variety that really disgust me. Rats live in their own filth from instinct. Fags and dykes live in their own moral filth by choice. Rats are content to live without trying to force their filth on others. Fags and dykes want everyone to join them in their moral sewer.
Yep, of the two I can feel a pity for the animal kind anyway.
Seattle? Yeah. It is full of rats, both of the human and literal variety.
The animals can't help themselves. I set poison and traps not out of animus but to protect our home and health. It actually bothers me to dispose of the corpses, since the animal was just doing what it needed to survive without trying to hurt others. If I could keep them from getting into the house I'd be happier not to kill them.
It's the human variety that really disgust me. Rats live in their own filth from instinct. Fags and dykes live in their own moral filth by choice. Rats are content to live without trying to force their filth on others. Fags and dykes want everyone to join them in their moral sewer.
Yep, of the two I can feel a pity for the animal kind anyway.
249
I know I'm late to the party but if Rep. Jay Rodne (R-5) doesn't want to be there when the bill passes (or any bill that deals with civil rights) then make like a tree and get the frack out.
250
Figured out who Seattleblues is.
"They had a choice, all of them. They could have followed in the footsteps of good men like my father or President Truman. Decent men who believed in a day's work for a day's pay. Instead they followed the droppings of lechers and communists and didn't realize that the trail led over a precipice until it was too late. Don't tell me they didn't have a choice. Now the whole world stands on the brink, staring down into bloody Hell, all those liberals and intellectuals and smooth-talkers... and all of a sudden nobody can think of anything to say."
251
Anyway, good luck to everyone. Voters will probably decide in November, but it may still come down to the courts anyway, like Brown v Education, Loving v Virginia, and a bunch of other precedents along the way.
252
You know, I'm pretty sure that if God hadn't wanted diversity and LGBT people in His Creation, they wouldn't be here. Since we have all this diversity, it stands to reason, they are SUPPOSED to be here. I'll bet God is trying to teach the rest of us what it means to be tolerant, and love each other without judging each other. If we truly treated each other the way we ourselves want to be treated, marriage equality would have occured long ago.
253
I am so looking forward to some amazing wedding receptions in the VERY NEAR FUTURE! Hooray for doing the right thing. Oh, and fuck Mark Miloscia and Chris Hurst. The district I live in borders both of theirs; I may be doing some work for any Democrat who'll step up to run against 'em. Assholes.
254
Seattleblues: Oh bless you. And guess what? I'm as straight as they come, happily married to a wonderful woman... and I could not be happier about this vote. It harms me not at all... and it is of enormous benefit to my gay friends and relations. It also means I don't have to have any awkward conversations with my son about why his cousins' mothers can't get married -- they will now be legally married and that is that.
And any legislator who might conceivably get turfed out for voting for this bill voted against it. Your only surprise in Nov is going to be how badly you get beaten you bigoted little rabbit.
And any legislator who might conceivably get turfed out for voting for this bill voted against it. Your only surprise in Nov is going to be how badly you get beaten you bigoted little rabbit.
255
Finally the disgusting bigot Seattleblues gets his due.
Fuck you too you filthy ass clown.
My wonderful brother and my beautiful daughter will get to marry their life's love if they so choose.
You get to stew in your homophobic mysanthropic hate.
What a fucked up way to live mister. I only hope that one of your own family comes out.
A fine life lesson that will be for you.
Fuck you too you filthy ass clown.
My wonderful brother and my beautiful daughter will get to marry their life's love if they so choose.
You get to stew in your homophobic mysanthropic hate.
What a fucked up way to live mister. I only hope that one of your own family comes out.
A fine life lesson that will be for you.
256
. . . trump your duty to the decent citizens who make up 97% of your constituency.What legitimate duty to the constituency is not being acknowledged by the legislature? Please be specific; if possible, cite passages from the state constitution showing that any such duty has, in fact, been enumerated.
See, since the legislators decided fags and dykes were the only citizens with rights . . .What rights are homosexuals being granted that heterosexuals do not currently possess, or will not continue to possess after Gregoire signs this legislation into law? Please be specific; if possible, illustrate how those of us engaged in opposite sex marriage have exercised these rights in the past, and will be inhibited from doing so in the future.
Fags and dykes want everyone to join them in their moral sewer.
What moral acts will you no longer be able to perform in light of this legislation, or, conversely, in what immoral acts will you be legally compelled to participate? Please be specific; if possible, post video.
257
SeattleBlues:
We're not surprised that the rats swarm in your direction! Birds of a feather, you know...
We're not surprised that the rats swarm in your direction! Birds of a feather, you know...
258
Well, any referendum would probably be brought against the court. Since this is offered to gay couples -- but suspended, pending a petition -- it's probably going to come close to meeting 9th Circuit criteria.
If it survives and makes it to the ballot, take heart! We have won the independents. If you compare these two polls you'll see:
2009, R-71: http://www.washingtonpoll.org/results/OC…
2011, current bill: http://www.washingtonpoll.org/results/20…
In this we see that the trend increased support in all groups:
+2 Democrats
+2 Republicans
+6 Independents
That's +1 per year for Dems and the GOP and +2 per year for Independents. Even if we get a little backslide it should right itself by November.
Assuming, of course, this doesn't get nuked from orbit by the courts. Which might mean we'll contend with that even-worse initiative getting boosted to the ballot if the courts intervene early enough.
If it survives and makes it to the ballot, take heart! We have won the independents. If you compare these two polls you'll see:
2009, R-71: http://www.washingtonpoll.org/results/OC…
2011, current bill: http://www.washingtonpoll.org/results/20…
In this we see that the trend increased support in all groups:
+2 Democrats
+2 Republicans
+6 Independents
That's +1 per year for Dems and the GOP and +2 per year for Independents. Even if we get a little backslide it should right itself by November.
Assuming, of course, this doesn't get nuked from orbit by the courts. Which might mean we'll contend with that even-worse initiative getting boosted to the ballot if the courts intervene early enough.
259
@248,
Amoral people are those who see themselves as superior, they seek injustice, inequality, oppression, and are full of greed and pride. They are filthy souls, blind to the rancid stench of their corrupted and diseased flesh. Perhaps the rats recognize a kindred soul in you? They see a white washed tomb and have come to clean the bones. A man who claims salvation by the letter of the law, but neglects the spirit of the law is a dead man walking according to your Bible. I worry for you, you've chosen to live in a sewer, but I know it is folly to attempt to convince you of anything different.
Please continue your abusive little rants. Feel free to further compliment me, all the other moral straight allies who seek justice and equality, and all your decent compassionate LGTB brothers and sisters. Give it to us with both barrels. Scream. Rant. Insult. Threaten. Abusive is as abusive does. Christian is as Christian does.
You're turn. The Stranger loves the money you make them with every page hit.
Amoral people are those who see themselves as superior, they seek injustice, inequality, oppression, and are full of greed and pride. They are filthy souls, blind to the rancid stench of their corrupted and diseased flesh. Perhaps the rats recognize a kindred soul in you? They see a white washed tomb and have come to clean the bones. A man who claims salvation by the letter of the law, but neglects the spirit of the law is a dead man walking according to your Bible. I worry for you, you've chosen to live in a sewer, but I know it is folly to attempt to convince you of anything different.
Please continue your abusive little rants. Feel free to further compliment me, all the other moral straight allies who seek justice and equality, and all your decent compassionate LGTB brothers and sisters. Give it to us with both barrels. Scream. Rant. Insult. Threaten. Abusive is as abusive does. Christian is as Christian does.
You're turn. The Stranger loves the money you make them with every page hit.
261
SB, your life is crumbling around you! Your freedoms have just been taken away!
Oh wait, no, this actually does not affect you at all. Carry on with your tantrum. It's hilarious.
Oh wait, no, this actually does not affect you at all. Carry on with your tantrum. It's hilarious.
264
Hell yes.
This doesn't affect me one single bit. I can freely marry anyone I'm attracted to, who is attracted to me, have been for most of my life. About time everyone else got to do the same damn thing.
And hurt marriage? Really? Tell that to my extremely Southern Baptist parents, who've been married for 43 years. Yet they agree with me on this (and, this alone, though mom does like my taste in wine).
Here's the thing. A lot of us? We're the old folks now. The younger generations, they don't even give it a second thought, generally. Of COURSE two consenting adults should be able to marry. Who the hell cares what their plumbing is like.
And that's a fucking beautiful thing. One way or another, eventually, this shit'll get sorted out. All you can do is be on the right side of history before it happens.
(Oh, and Leviticus also says you can't get a haircut, or trim your beard, so, let's see pics. And shrimp is fucking delicious.)
This doesn't affect me one single bit. I can freely marry anyone I'm attracted to, who is attracted to me, have been for most of my life. About time everyone else got to do the same damn thing.
And hurt marriage? Really? Tell that to my extremely Southern Baptist parents, who've been married for 43 years. Yet they agree with me on this (and, this alone, though mom does like my taste in wine).
Here's the thing. A lot of us? We're the old folks now. The younger generations, they don't even give it a second thought, generally. Of COURSE two consenting adults should be able to marry. Who the hell cares what their plumbing is like.
And that's a fucking beautiful thing. One way or another, eventually, this shit'll get sorted out. All you can do is be on the right side of history before it happens.
(Oh, and Leviticus also says you can't get a haircut, or trim your beard, so, let's see pics. And shrimp is fucking delicious.)
265
Seattleblues all this time I thought you were a Christian. But with that foul mouth diarrhea of yours I stand corrected. Your mind is as filthy as the physical behavior you think Gay folk engage in. America is becoming, as our Founding Fathers wanted, a more perfect union. This is a blessed glorious day in Washington. Equality and Civil Equality marches forward.
268
Boy, Seattlebues, you have abandoned any pretence of civility. I'd be embarassed if my mother hadn't raised me any better than that. Name-calling and threats of rape with broom handles. My high school students are more mature than that.
270
@259 my goodness miss kim.. girl.. i think i'm going out to get a bottle of single malt to go with my thank you very much. you on fire !
271
"Love the sinners, hate the sin. Lover the sinners, hate the sin. Love the....uh...oh fuck it. Screw the sin, really. It's the sinners I hate!" -- Seattleblues.
272
Dear SB:
Would that be the same splintery broom handle that appears to be solidly wedge up your own ass?
Also, hope you keep the cell phone within arms reach - although I'd recommend putting 911 on speed dial for when that aneurysm finally bursts, which should be about in...3...2...1...
And to everybody else - congratulations! I hope you enjoy what it feels like to be considered a first-class citizen for a change.
Would that be the same splintery broom handle that appears to be solidly wedge up your own ass?
Also, hope you keep the cell phone within arms reach - although I'd recommend putting 911 on speed dial for when that aneurysm finally bursts, which should be about in...3...2...1...
And to everybody else - congratulations! I hope you enjoy what it feels like to be considered a first-class citizen for a change.
273
@272
SB will only share his splintery broom handle with you if you're a woman. Anything else would be a sin.
SB will only share his splintery broom handle with you if you're a woman. Anything else would be a sin.
274
Seattleblues, I'll take the broom handle off your hands. Scav can always use scrap wood.
I was going to say that this outburst has convinced me that Seattleblues is simply a clever parody, but then I thought again. If he's a parody, he's a really good parody. What we are seeing now is a man so full of hate that he no longer cares to hide his bigotry behind mild words and smug insinuations of the greater good of society. Queers scare him for some reason, and now he's putting his real opinions on display instead of pretending that his distaste is at all rational. If his side is losing the argument, he might as well own up to his motivations, almost like a condemned man taunting his victims with descriptions of his crimes.
I was going to say that this outburst has convinced me that Seattleblues is simply a clever parody, but then I thought again. If he's a parody, he's a really good parody. What we are seeing now is a man so full of hate that he no longer cares to hide his bigotry behind mild words and smug insinuations of the greater good of society. Queers scare him for some reason, and now he's putting his real opinions on display instead of pretending that his distaste is at all rational. If his side is losing the argument, he might as well own up to his motivations, almost like a condemned man taunting his victims with descriptions of his crimes.
275
Hilarious. I always knew SB was capable of this - he's given little peeks of his true nature before. But I figured the reason he never posted at a time when we won a victory was because he knew he couldn't control himself. That was why his more polite hate came a couple of days later.
Well, he just proved my hunch correct.
SB, you can suck my ass. Then you can suck VL's ass, then Kim's ass, then Rob's ass, then Comte's ass, then riz's ass, then gus's ass, then Fnarf's ass, and then... Then, you can stick that hateful, hellbound tongue up Dan's ass. Swirl it around a bit. Probe deeply. Get it up there but good.
Then, you can go die. Make the world a better place.
Loser.
Well, he just proved my hunch correct.
SB, you can suck my ass. Then you can suck VL's ass, then Kim's ass, then Rob's ass, then Comte's ass, then riz's ass, then gus's ass, then Fnarf's ass, and then... Then, you can stick that hateful, hellbound tongue up Dan's ass. Swirl it around a bit. Probe deeply. Get it up there but good.
Then, you can go die. Make the world a better place.
Loser.
276
Wow, Seattleblues is really losing it. I have to say his meltdown is something to behold. (It kind of reminds me of Kathy Bates at the end of Misery)
Comparing human beings to rats? Classy, but I guess he's just keeping bigot tradition. http://banksy.edublogs.org/files/2011/02… Interesting company Seattleblues keeps.
Don't worry Seattleblues, you'll learn to live with it just like bigoted people learned to live with legalized miscegenation.
I guess it's time to move to your fictional house in Italy.
Comparing human beings to rats? Classy, but I guess he's just keeping bigot tradition. http://banksy.edublogs.org/files/2011/02… Interesting company Seattleblues keeps.
Don't worry Seattleblues, you'll learn to live with it just like bigoted people learned to live with legalized miscegenation.
I guess it's time to move to your fictional house in Italy.
277
Kim in Portland, your grace and eloquence are humbling and beautiful to read. When I grow up, I want to move to Portland, and be Kim in Portland too. Thank you for your comments here.
278
When the barbarians have broken down the wall and are preparing to destroy the city polite congratulations are hardly in order. Utter and uncompromising opposition such loathesome scum as Savage and his repellent ilk is the only appropriate response from civilized people. I'd rather die an expatriate from the great place my nation had been than watch it die from corruption and moral filth slowly.
Separating reasonable people like Ken Mehlman from the barbarian horde is separating someone just diagnoses with cancer from someone in the final stages. With treatment and care it may be possible to recover in initial stages, but in this case those suffering stage 4 wish to take everyone else down with them.
Moving to Italy has been inevitable as my nation devolves to the level of chimps in a cage for some time now. This puts the final seal on the decision, sure, but it hardly is a change.
Kims and Mile High Matt and the other apologists- You welcome the destruction of our society, hold out open arms to vile subhuman trash like Savage that would destroy it. You are morally no better than those who collaborated with the Nazis in occupied countries of Europe. So while I rarely use profanity, in this case it was entirely appropriate. While I rarely express open anger at the trash morally decayed so far as to be unable to be a viable member of society wish to destroy it, in this case it was thoroughly justified.
Separating reasonable people like Ken Mehlman from the barbarian horde is separating someone just diagnoses with cancer from someone in the final stages. With treatment and care it may be possible to recover in initial stages, but in this case those suffering stage 4 wish to take everyone else down with them.
Moving to Italy has been inevitable as my nation devolves to the level of chimps in a cage for some time now. This puts the final seal on the decision, sure, but it hardly is a change.
Kims and Mile High Matt and the other apologists- You welcome the destruction of our society, hold out open arms to vile subhuman trash like Savage that would destroy it. You are morally no better than those who collaborated with the Nazis in occupied countries of Europe. So while I rarely use profanity, in this case it was entirely appropriate. While I rarely express open anger at the trash morally decayed so far as to be unable to be a viable member of society wish to destroy it, in this case it was thoroughly justified.
279
Whoa, SeaBlu... Your neurosis is REALLY showing...
Y'know, every moment you spend here on The Slog is a moment away from your wife and family...
(PS - Jesus just told me he's going to punch you in the face when he sees you... Dude has a temper, y'know, and the unrighteous masquerading as the righteous REAAALLLLY pisses Him off no end...)
Y'know, every moment you spend here on The Slog is a moment away from your wife and family...
(PS - Jesus just told me he's going to punch you in the face when he sees you... Dude has a temper, y'know, and the unrighteous masquerading as the righteous REAAALLLLY pisses Him off no end...)
281
@278: You seem very convinced of the righteousness of your cause and the veracity of your opinions, so much so that you have begun advocating violence against those who disagree. Please explain to us how it is immoral and wrong to be gay, using science.
283
278, just like you'll never leave Slog, you'll never leave the country either. There's no house in Italy. You're stuck right where you are in life, impotent to affect any progress or betterment of yourself. You're also powerless to rid yourself of your homosexual urges, and it makes you angry that while you're fighting so hard against them, others are going through life enjoying being gay. They flaunt it in your face, and you hate them for it. This is you find so much pleasure trolling here. It gives you a sense of power you so desperately lack in the real world, and over your sexual feelings. If anything, I see you going a Dan White style shooting spree. Get some psychological help before you go more insane.
284
@281
I have advocated violence against no-one, no matter how depraved.
Nor do I need to defend a damn thing. I'm perfectly happy with real marriage and real families. Fags and dykes to destroy them, fags and dykes must demonstrate to everyone else why that destruction is needed.
I'd note that proving a moral wrong scientifically is impossible, but why bother trying to educate someone determined to be ignorant.
I have advocated violence against no-one, no matter how depraved.
Nor do I need to defend a damn thing. I'm perfectly happy with real marriage and real families. Fags and dykes to destroy them, fags and dykes must demonstrate to everyone else why that destruction is needed.
I'd note that proving a moral wrong scientifically is impossible, but why bother trying to educate someone determined to be ignorant.
285
@283
Just because you suffer from a mental disorder in which you can't be sexually attracted in a healthy way, don't assume everyone else is.
As for the rest of the juvenile taunts, keep them for someone who gives a rats ass about them.
Neither I nor you nor anyone else is stuck in life. You can seek treatment and find a way to be a healthy adult, or you can continue to indulge your depravity. The choice is yours. Oh, wait, it isn't. The Gay Specia Rights lobby eliminated that choice when it erroneously stopped calling homosexuality a mental illness. If you seek treatment no-one will provide it, or they'd risk their license to do so.
At any rate, the choice you don't have is to demand others celebrate your mental illness. The choice you don't have is to impose your minority value on the majority.
Oh wait. Washington and New York legislatures both decided that in fact you do have that right. You, and the tiny self selecting minority like you, apparently get to decide for everyone else what marriage and family are.
The anger comes not from some imagined repressed urge, but from the repression of democracy the gay special rights lobby is engaging in.
Just because you suffer from a mental disorder in which you can't be sexually attracted in a healthy way, don't assume everyone else is.
As for the rest of the juvenile taunts, keep them for someone who gives a rats ass about them.
Neither I nor you nor anyone else is stuck in life. You can seek treatment and find a way to be a healthy adult, or you can continue to indulge your depravity. The choice is yours. Oh, wait, it isn't. The Gay Specia Rights lobby eliminated that choice when it erroneously stopped calling homosexuality a mental illness. If you seek treatment no-one will provide it, or they'd risk their license to do so.
At any rate, the choice you don't have is to demand others celebrate your mental illness. The choice you don't have is to impose your minority value on the majority.
Oh wait. Washington and New York legislatures both decided that in fact you do have that right. You, and the tiny self selecting minority like you, apparently get to decide for everyone else what marriage and family are.
The anger comes not from some imagined repressed urge, but from the repression of democracy the gay special rights lobby is engaging in.
286
You must demonstrate, Seattleblues, why the policies you oppose represent anything whatsoever with regards to your rights; why they represent a threat to your why of life; how, indeed, they destroy anything whatsoever. That the legislature found as it did is evidence that no one from your side has managed to demonstrate such conclusively; that you have yet to answer my point-blank queries on the matter strikes me as clear evidence that even you cannot so demonstrate, and that your arguments are based on emotional response and adherence to the axioms derived of your anthropomorphic monotheism.
Proving a moral wrong scientifically isn't necessary for anyone, since what you call a moral wrong is no more relevant than what I call a moral wrong. The necessity, when it comes to law, is demonstrating an empirically measurable harm, a demonstrable threat to civic utility. If you fail to do so, the proscriptions you hold dear exceed the capacity of what we call law. To hold, by artificial design of governance, a man of my capacities to the limits of your moral reasoning is like holding a lion to the whims of the termite.
Proving a moral wrong scientifically isn't necessary for anyone, since what you call a moral wrong is no more relevant than what I call a moral wrong. The necessity, when it comes to law, is demonstrating an empirically measurable harm, a demonstrable threat to civic utility. If you fail to do so, the proscriptions you hold dear exceed the capacity of what we call law. To hold, by artificial design of governance, a man of my capacities to the limits of your moral reasoning is like holding a lion to the whims of the termite.
287
Thank you again, Seattleblues. I will continue to stand up for civil justice and equality. I will continue to financially and actively work towards that goal. I've chosen justice and grace, compassion in action. I will use my time in this one life to work towards making life better for everyone. Even you. Your words don't hurt, I expect them. I understand that frightened people act like animals and will bite you if given a chance. So allow me once again to compliment you on your fine example of Christ-likeness.
I get my own opinion. And, you are the one acting like a perverted, abusive, immoral deviant. You're the one acting like a monster here with your abusive rants and name calling. You have no empirical evidence to cite to base your perception of your "moral correctness" on. Just a feeling inside you that tells you that you're superior and that you deserve to placed upon a pedestal. Without reproducible empirical evidence to support your opinion, you sound like a mentally unstable tyrant. I seriously feel sorry for you. Do yourself and your proclaimed savior a favor and turn off your computer and take a walk. Coming unglued while great for making the Stranger money is an embarrassment to you, your family, and the Christian name.
Kind regards.
I get my own opinion. And, you are the one acting like a perverted, abusive, immoral deviant. You're the one acting like a monster here with your abusive rants and name calling. You have no empirical evidence to cite to base your perception of your "moral correctness" on. Just a feeling inside you that tells you that you're superior and that you deserve to placed upon a pedestal. Without reproducible empirical evidence to support your opinion, you sound like a mentally unstable tyrant. I seriously feel sorry for you. Do yourself and your proclaimed savior a favor and turn off your computer and take a walk. Coming unglued while great for making the Stranger money is an embarrassment to you, your family, and the Christian name.
Kind regards.
289
@ 260, @ 269, @ 270, and @ 277,
Thank you for your kind words. Keep up your good works to secure justice and equality for all. It is my honor to work and to stand with you against oppression, injustice, and inequality. I believe the tide has turned, but we have many struggles and miles to go before we reach the finishline. Run your race well.
Best wishes,
k
Thank you for your kind words. Keep up your good works to secure justice and equality for all. It is my honor to work and to stand with you against oppression, injustice, and inequality. I believe the tide has turned, but we have many struggles and miles to go before we reach the finishline. Run your race well.
Best wishes,
k
290
At any rate, the choice you don't have is to demand others celebrate your mental illness.In what way does state recognition of same-sex marriage obligate you to celebrate same. As always, avoid the general; hone in on the concrete and tangible.
You, and the tiny self selecting minority like you, apparently get to decide for everyone else what marriage and family are.Well, no. You have the same liberty you've always had to determine what marriage and family are to you, and pass those values and definitions on to your kids. The only difference between then and now is that the state is no longer charged with codifying your prejudices.
291
285, Seattleblues, I had some great healthy sex tonight. Your fear of homosexuality is pathological, and stems from your own repressed homosexual desires. I love being gay, while you hate yourself for your gay feelings. You hate me for accepting my true self, while you fight so hard against your homosexual leanings. If you have to fight so hard to be straight, then damn it, everyone else should too! Again, you'll never leave the country because you don't have the resources to do so. It wouldn't matter if you did, because you homosexual feelings will haunt you forever, and you'll continue hating people who don't feel the need to repress their gayness like you do.
292
Hey SeattleBlues, how you feeling today? Seems like you went a little too deep into the grappa yesterday. How's your head--need some aspirin?
With a review of your comments here, you kinda did advocate violence--that 'fuck you, preferably with a splintered broom handle' is threatening language. Again, you seem to show an interest in sex that is, shall we say, outside the norm.
Not to mention your stated intention to violate Washington State law regarding discrimination based on sexual orientation. Hopefully, once the hangover wears off, you'll realize that doing so would put that house in Italy, the boat, the private schooling, and your family's financial stability in jeopardy. Not to mention going against things you've said here before. You have stated that it's not acceptable to discriminate against gay folks in housing, employment, etc. Hate to see you go back on your word like that.
With a review of your comments here, you kinda did advocate violence--that 'fuck you, preferably with a splintered broom handle' is threatening language. Again, you seem to show an interest in sex that is, shall we say, outside the norm.
Not to mention your stated intention to violate Washington State law regarding discrimination based on sexual orientation. Hopefully, once the hangover wears off, you'll realize that doing so would put that house in Italy, the boat, the private schooling, and your family's financial stability in jeopardy. Not to mention going against things you've said here before. You have stated that it's not acceptable to discriminate against gay folks in housing, employment, etc. Hate to see you go back on your word like that.
293
he will do no such thing, clashfan. he's just full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. he doesn't have a house in italy, or a boat, or wife, or children, or a business. he is just an angry blowhard living in his mom's basement.
294
@285:
>duly elected officials enacting popularly-supported legislation protecting the rights of a minority
>repression of democracy
Pick one.
>duly elected officials enacting popularly-supported legislation protecting the rights of a minority
>repression of democracy
Pick one.
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