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News & ArtsTuesday, February 7, 2012
Visual Art Werner Herzog Will Have to Make a New Movie Because Some Very Much Older Cave Paintings Have Been Discovered in Spain
Posted by Jen Graves on Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 4:29 PM
The art site Hyperallergic wrote today about a new discovery of paintings that are—we think—thousands of years older than any other art objects ever found. They were made by Neanderthals. We're talking possibly 43,500 years ago.
So, maybe you should think twice before calling someone a Neanderthal.
1
Actually, if you're from certain regions of the UK and Ireland, or Northern European, you are probably part Neanderthal.
Disturbingly, we can pinpoint your origin county from your DNA.
But the main question arises - are these cave paintings different in depiction (e.g. Cubist vs Realist) or remarkably similar?
Disturbingly, we can pinpoint your origin county from your DNA.
But the main question arises - are these cave paintings different in depiction (e.g. Cubist vs Realist) or remarkably similar?
2
At least he could mostly keep all the same questions, just adding a word here or there. "Do Spanish paintings have souls?" Sounds good by me.
5
@1, you believe 40,000 year old rock art is "Cubist" or "Realist"? Fascinating.
As I said on your Facebook post, it blows my mind that Europeans STILL think if it didn't happen to them it didn't happen. There is rock art in India (Auditorium Cave, Daraki-Chattan), South Africa (the Kalahari Desert), and particularly Australia (the Pilbara and other places) that is probably in this same ballpark of 40,000 years old, which is where carbon-dating tends to stop being useful.
So I don't see how this find pushes the earliest known art by 10,000 years. Earliest European art maybe.
Note that whoever was walking around Europe 40,000 years ago, there were no Neanderthals in India, Africa, or Australia. Homo sapiens sapiens all the way.
This is of course a disputatious area, but there is some evidence that rock art in Australia goes back much further, "signs of artists working with ochre paint possibly as far back as 60 000 years ago."
http://www.aboriginalartonline.com/art/r…
One thing that makes dating Australian aboriginal art difficult is that these are not just historical sites to them; they are as current as MTV, and at many of them designated elders go back and repaint them every year, or every so often, to keep them fresh. That's the thing about the aboriginal cultures; they're STILL HERE, earth's longest continuous civilization by a huge margin. Truly remarkable peoples. Their art has been adapted to modern acrylics and fabric dyeing as well; this is 60,000 years of history living and breathing with us.
As I said on your Facebook post, it blows my mind that Europeans STILL think if it didn't happen to them it didn't happen. There is rock art in India (Auditorium Cave, Daraki-Chattan), South Africa (the Kalahari Desert), and particularly Australia (the Pilbara and other places) that is probably in this same ballpark of 40,000 years old, which is where carbon-dating tends to stop being useful.
So I don't see how this find pushes the earliest known art by 10,000 years. Earliest European art maybe.
Note that whoever was walking around Europe 40,000 years ago, there were no Neanderthals in India, Africa, or Australia. Homo sapiens sapiens all the way.
This is of course a disputatious area, but there is some evidence that rock art in Australia goes back much further, "signs of artists working with ochre paint possibly as far back as 60 000 years ago."
http://www.aboriginalartonline.com/art/r…
One thing that makes dating Australian aboriginal art difficult is that these are not just historical sites to them; they are as current as MTV, and at many of them designated elders go back and repaint them every year, or every so often, to keep them fresh. That's the thing about the aboriginal cultures; they're STILL HERE, earth's longest continuous civilization by a huge margin. Truly remarkable peoples. Their art has been adapted to modern acrylics and fabric dyeing as well; this is 60,000 years of history living and breathing with us.
6
Oh my god. Go look at the link. The images are obviously of a double helix. Meaning, they must have had x-ray crystallography. It took humanoids 400 centuries to get back to that technological level..
9
@6
No, it's clearly a pair of sweet potatoes. Human history began with a desire to farm yams.
Actually, no! It's a bra.
No, it's clearly a pair of sweet potatoes. Human history began with a desire to farm yams.
Actually, no! It's a bra.
10
There isn't any proof or disproof that they are, in fact, Neanderthal.There is still research to be done. Much of the area presumably occupied by early H. Sapiens and H. Neanderthal is now underwater due to rising seas as the last Ice Age ended. Thus much information on how both species may have interacted is lost to us.
11
Jen,
I just viewed "Cave of Forgotten Dreams" by Herzog two weeks ago on DVD. It's an excellent documentary. I enjoyed it almost more than "Grizzly Man".
If this discovery in Spain is verified, it would be most extraordinary.
I just viewed "Cave of Forgotten Dreams" by Herzog two weeks ago on DVD. It's an excellent documentary. I enjoyed it almost more than "Grizzly Man".
If this discovery in Spain is verified, it would be most extraordinary.
12
Good Morning Jen,
I believe I saw a photo of you in the Local section of this morning's Seattle Times. You were taking a picture of a sculpture at the Gaugin exhibition. I think?
I do intend to see the show BTW.
I believe I saw a photo of you in the Local section of this morning's Seattle Times. You were taking a picture of a sculpture at the Gaugin exhibition. I think?
I do intend to see the show BTW.
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