Slog
News & ArtsFriday, February 3, 2012
LGBTQITSLFA / Olympia "I want to ask your forgiveness, but I have to do what I believe is right. And for me, right is voting against this bill," by Washington State Senator Jim Hargrove
Posted by Eli Sanders on Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 6:00 AM
On Wednesday night in Olympia, right after Democratic Senator Kevin Ranker's moving speech about his gay father, Democratic Senator Jim Hargrove rose to explain his vote against gay marriage:
1
His vote against equality is what he believes to be right. Apparently, he thinks that makes bigotry acceptable.
2
Whenever someone says "I don't judge people." or "I don't think I'm better than anyone else." you know they are a liar.
Everybody judges others, the issue is; do you act on those judgements? Do you revise your judgment when you gather further information?
His little speech provided absolutely no kind of reasoning. His reasoning begins and ends with "Jesus." That's a load of shit.
Everybody judges others, the issue is; do you act on those judgements? Do you revise your judgment when you gather further information?
His little speech provided absolutely no kind of reasoning. His reasoning begins and ends with "Jesus." That's a load of shit.
6
So what, exactly, is the reason he is against the bill? His speech was all about him. His speech was all about asking forgiveness for anything he may do that is wrong, or offends someone.
His speech does not provide any insight, or clarity, or background to the many reasons the right have brought up against gay marriage.
Other than a tiny admission that he thinks the religious protections amendments do not go far enough, he doesn't give any concrete reasons whatsoever.
But he does take great pains to separate himself from his decision: "You have to excuse me for being a dick, because I love everybody just so much."
His speech does not provide any insight, or clarity, or background to the many reasons the right have brought up against gay marriage.
Other than a tiny admission that he thinks the religious protections amendments do not go far enough, he doesn't give any concrete reasons whatsoever.
But he does take great pains to separate himself from his decision: "You have to excuse me for being a dick, because I love everybody just so much."
7
Writing off people you disagree with as bigots instead of listening to what they are saying deprives you of an opportunity to actually engage with them and change their hearts and minds.
No, really.
Fortunately activists in Washington State have generally been smarter than that, and same-sex couples have had increasingly marriage-like rights for several years now and (it seems nearly certain) will have equal marriage rights in the near future.
As opposed to some states, where the activism has looked and continues to look more like people screaming "You're a bigot!!1!!" when marriage equality opponents try to explain themselves, and where the process has in general been longer and uglier.
No, really.
Fortunately activists in Washington State have generally been smarter than that, and same-sex couples have had increasingly marriage-like rights for several years now and (it seems nearly certain) will have equal marriage rights in the near future.
As opposed to some states, where the activism has looked and continues to look more like people screaming "You're a bigot!!1!!" when marriage equality opponents try to explain themselves, and where the process has in general been longer and uglier.
8
@ 7, one can not engage with bigots on this blog. The ones who have and continue to post here have all been reasoned with by some of us, and they all proved to be impervious to it. (That includes you, Seattleblues, and it's why no one treats you with any respect at all - not your beliefs, but your obnoxious refusal to consider our viewpoint as valid.)
Hargrove might be more open to reason, but he doesn't blog here - not that we know, anyway.
Hargrove might be more open to reason, but he doesn't blog here - not that we know, anyway.
9
Hargrove is my senator. I sent him an email weeks ago asking him to reconsider his announced "no" vote. He didn't even have the courtesy to reply.
10
Every time I hear the argument against marriage equality boiling down to religion, I just want to ask if these folks believe that Sharia law should be the law of the land.
Because that is what hiding behind religion for government public policy is. It is forcing religious law and beliefs on everyone else. And so often by folks identified as Christian or Catholic, who would find recognition and implementation of Sharia law to be offensive. The blatant hypocrisy is disgusting, but at the same time, I am happy that those folks are more and more of the minority.
Because that is what hiding behind religion for government public policy is. It is forcing religious law and beliefs on everyone else. And so often by folks identified as Christian or Catholic, who would find recognition and implementation of Sharia law to be offensive. The blatant hypocrisy is disgusting, but at the same time, I am happy that those folks are more and more of the minority.
11
This guy knows he's screwing up. His language and his tone were not the standard boilerplate "love the sinner hate the sin". Usually people say that with a big self-satisfied smirk on their face, because it makes them so happy to invoke this special codicil that means Jesus lets them fuck someone over. That's not what's going on here. The guy in the video has had an epiphany, a sudden realization that probably Jesus is not going to be very happy with him for following "Faith". He's suffering major cognitive dissonance. "What does my faith even mean, if it is in essence forcing me to do something so unjesus-like, so patently cruel, not just to strangers, but to colleagues I respect?" I say cut the guy a break. People change -- and you are watching someone changing.
13
Either he is wary of the reprecussions of his "no" vote. Or his views are starting to crumble. He tearfully told his colleagues and his constituents that he sees them as second class citizens, unworthy of legal protections by the state. Maybe he realizes that he is not justified and he has no excuse, because he knows same-sex couples and knows they aren't a threat to either his marriage or his personally chosen religious affiliation with its deemed restrictions? Either way he has written himself into history as being on the wrong side. The side of injustice.
15
If you "just wanted to explain your position," why the hell didn't you? All I heard was defensive posturing, not one word of explanation of his position. Loser.
17
@11 Exactly, I had a conversation with a friend once about gay rights that went like that...She was trying to justify why it wasn't right because of her religous beliefs while tearing up at the same time because I think deep down she knew it was at odds with her internal conscience about how to treat people you love and also with the basic tenets of Christianity. Five years later and she now supports gay marriage and is still a Christian, albeit one divorced from most of the theological views of her family and friends and the church she grew up in. That kind of indoctrination takes time to overcome, and not having grown up with it, who am I to judge? The more that people who have grown up like that are confronted with making choices between acting compassionately or hurting other people they consider friends because of their beliefs, the more they will come to realize they are wrong. Our job is just to force the confrontation by not being silent.
18
@11 and @13 Thank you, both. I think you've nailed whats happening before us, right there on the screen.
The thought makes me rather teary, actually. In a good way.
The thought makes me rather teary, actually. In a good way.
20
@18,
Me too. I've been on the listening side of a few of these situations. So far they have led to birth of belated equality supporters. I hope the same for Mr. Hargrove. I hope his struggles lead him to actions that re-write his name on the right side of history. Late comers have their place at the banquet of peace too, in my opinion.
Me too. I've been on the listening side of a few of these situations. So far they have led to birth of belated equality supporters. I hope the same for Mr. Hargrove. I hope his struggles lead him to actions that re-write his name on the right side of history. Late comers have their place at the banquet of peace too, in my opinion.
22
He wants the forgiveness of anyone he offends, but he's not getting my forgiveness. He voted to impose his faith on others when he didn't need to. Legalizing same sex marriage won't force anyone opposed to it to become gay. Why does practicing his faith require denying others the ability to practice ours?
23
I do not believe it is the right of any politician to use their "christianity" or religious "beliefs" to support or deny their vote. When we elect them I believe it is to do what the majority of their constituents want them to do. I do not vote for a person so that they can vote according to their religious fears. This guy needs to be defeated when he comes up for re-election in 2013. I strongly believe anyone who votes for or against something because they are "Christian" needs to go. We need to push back and maintain the separation of church and state. And for those of you out there who are "christian" this nation was NOT founded on "christian" principals. It was founded by Deists who wanted to get away from one religion demanding that everyone believe like they do. Isn't is funny how "christians" always say, "I love all people" "We love the sinner but hate the sin." Pure BS! Asking forgiveness for bigotry is pure show. One person’s marriage has nothing to do with someone else’s. If that were the case mine would be in trouble because over 50% of marriages end in divorce. I support gay marriage and equality for all.
24
Senator Hargrove also kills any bills related to adoptee rights. This year for the third year in a row, he killed a bill that would allow adoptees to get a copy of their original birth certficate. No explaination ever - just kills the bill. This year, HB 2211 passed all committees in the House as well as the entire House vote with a unanimous 'yes' vote. Bill gets routed to his committee, and he refused to give it a hearing. Not sure why he is so anti-adoptee.
25
Senator Hargrove is also against adoptee rights legislation. This year, for the third year in a row, he killed a bill which would have allowed WA State adoptees to get their original birth certificate. He never gives an explanation. This year HB 2211 passed all House committees and the entire House with a unanimous 'yes' vote. Bill goes to the Senate, gets sent to Hargrove's commitee, and he refused to even allow a hearing. He's very determined each and every year to stop this legislation...and you just gotta wonder why...
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