Slog
News & ArtsThursday, February 2, 2012
War Iran 2012 Mirrors Iraq 2002
Posted by Charles Mudede on Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 8:51 AM
About 200,000 missiles are aimed at Israel at any given time, a top Israel Defense Forces officer said on Thursday, adding that Iran's ability to obtain nuclear weapons was solely dependent on the will of Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.These "experts" never left 2002. Their drums for war are identical to Bush's. Reading Haaretz today is like reading New York Times in the months that led to the biggest crime of the previous decade....The remarks by Military Intelligence Chief Major General Aviv Kochavi came after IDF Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Benny Gantz said on Wednesday that the threats facing Israel have increased and intensified in recent years due to regional instability.
...Referring to Israel's concerns over Iran's nuclear ambitions, Kochavi presented a relatively tame estimation of a possible timeline en route to an Iranian atomic bomb, saying that the project depended more on the will of Iran's Supreme Leader than on any technological advancement.
"If Khamenei issues a command to achieve a first nuclear explosive device, we estimate it would take another year before that's achieved," the top IDF official said, adding that "if he asks to translate that ability to obtain a nuclear warhead, that would take another year or two."
2
And also similar to Iaq, Iran is newly selling their oil & natural gas supplies in currencies other than the dollar. the gall! Didn't we teach the middle east to not use other currencies by destroying Iraq? I guess they didn't learn their lesson. Time for another invasion. Or at least a mad bombing campaign.
3
I probably shouldn't point out that our own intelligence services think Isreal's estimates of Iran's nuclear capabilities are too conservative. That might spoil the hatefest.
4
@2 If we go to war it is because of our allegiance to Israel and our desire to keep any one power from dominating the region (besides Israel). Not because of petrol currency.
I've always felt that Iran has a very justified fear of the west. Just look at the history...Ajax, the Shah, and the conquering of their neighbors this past decade. Shit, I would try to build a nuclear bomb too. If they get the bomb, we can never again threaten them, at least not without real ramifications. We would have to treat them as a legitimate power, and we don't ever want to do that.
I've always felt that Iran has a very justified fear of the west. Just look at the history...Ajax, the Shah, and the conquering of their neighbors this past decade. Shit, I would try to build a nuclear bomb too. If they get the bomb, we can never again threaten them, at least not without real ramifications. We would have to treat them as a legitimate power, and we don't ever want to do that.
5
@3: Link? The recent article in the New York Times Magazine puts Netanyahu and Barak much further along the warpath than us.
Anyway, I'm not hatin', just making an observation about Israel's rightward slide, which has only empowered conservatives in the Arab states such as Iran, and, in my opinion, completely undermined Israeli interests as well as ours.
Anyway, I'm not hatin', just making an observation about Israel's rightward slide, which has only empowered conservatives in the Arab states such as Iran, and, in my opinion, completely undermined Israeli interests as well as ours.
6
No preemption, no provocation. We have an honest president. I hope it stays that way. Israel's assasination squads have been effective so far. They should continue covert actions.
7
@4 I suggest that you might not understand the ramifications of dropping petrodollars. Why did we invade Iraq? WMDs were never found, and they were the pretext for killing 100,000+ people there. Iran may well be attempting a nuclear weapon, but what is said publically ("our intel services think...") is not what is discussed privately. The real reason for invading Iraq was never publically stated. Yes, Iraq was sending payments to Palastinians, and yes they'd tried to build a Very Long Gun to shoot Israel (but Mossad had taken care of that), neither of which Israel liked, but more importantly Saddam was toying with the oil supply: making prices see-saw back and forth... And then suddenly selling oil in Euros (and making a huge windfall profit). After which we invaded.
The Israelis can take care of Iran's nuclear program (viz the nuclear scientist assassinations, Stuxnet virus, and more). Sure backing up Israel is one of the reasons we are making noise, but the primary reason is selling oil in yuan, rupees and gold. That is more detrimental to our American livelihood that any political affiliation. That's what we'll commit American lives and materiél for.
The Israelis can take care of Iran's nuclear program (viz the nuclear scientist assassinations, Stuxnet virus, and more). Sure backing up Israel is one of the reasons we are making noise, but the primary reason is selling oil in yuan, rupees and gold. That is more detrimental to our American livelihood that any political affiliation. That's what we'll commit American lives and materiél for.
9
Yeah, but how is this any different from Israel's behavior all the time? They're constantly making it seem like they're under attack by everyone all the time, and therefore should get to stomp around and invade who they feel like.
Because, you know, rolling tanks into a settlement and killing hundreds of civilians is *totally* an appropriate response to one suicide bomber killing 10-15 soldiers.
Because, you know, rolling tanks into a settlement and killing hundreds of civilians is *totally* an appropriate response to one suicide bomber killing 10-15 soldiers.
11
The difference is that Iraq was a Potemkin Village, a tiny, cowed country with a hopeless economy and a pathetic military. Iran is giant, it is an industrial powerhouse, and it is infinitely more serious about war, especially when it comes to protecting its home territory. Going to conventional war with Iran would be unfathomly stupid; going to nukes with them.... For chrissakes, get a fucking grip.
12
If our carrier group in the gulf were attacked the outcry for revenge in this country would be deafening.
13
@12 If that happened I'd be here before Spindles saying we need to tear it apart looking for evidence it was a false flag attack, because holy shit Iran is not that stupid.
15
Anyone ever read about thenwargames in which a scrappy marine was able to sink our big, fancy aircraft carriers with inflatable boats and Cessna airplanes? I believe this war game was intended as training against an Iranian threat.
16
@11,
If a Republican wins the White House in November, I will steadfastly refuse to "get a grip". I know you've noticed that every one of those motherfuckers, except Ron Paul, wants to go to war with Iran.
If a Republican wins the White House in November, I will steadfastly refuse to "get a grip". I know you've noticed that every one of those motherfuckers, except Ron Paul, wants to go to war with Iran.
17
@15 - I do recall that game, and yes, I also recall that a vague Iran-like opponent was the one controlling the zodiacs & cessnas.
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