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News & ArtsFriday, January 20, 2012
LGBTQITSLFA / Olympia Thirty One Years Old and Undecided on Same Sex Marriage? Really, Senator Fain?
Posted by Eli Sanders on Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 5:28 PM
- State Senator Joe Fain, R-47
I know that everyone is on his or her own unique journey with the issue of same sex marriage, and I respect that. But every time I recall the age of Republican State Senator Joe Fain—31 years old—I think: Really? He's undecided?
I mean, check out the Washington Poll's recent "closer look" findings on this issue. In Fain's age demographic in this state, 65 percent of people favor gay marriage—the highest "pass it" percentage of any demographic the Washington Poll has looked at.
Only 29 percent of people in Fain's age group oppose gay marriage, and a miniscule amount—6 percent—are, as Fain claims to be, undecided. (Not religiously or politically opposed. Not supportive except for that whole marriage thing. Just: undecided.)
It's very easy to understand why people Fain's age would, according to the Washington Poll, be more supportive of gay marriage and less undecided on the matter than any other demographic. People his age have grown up in a culture that's quickly become more accepting of gay rights, they know more out gay people, and they just don't see the whole thing as that hard of a problem to figure out. Duh: Let committed same sex couples marry, and give them the same rights under the law as other married citizens.
What's hard to understand is how Fain got to be where he claims to be: undecided. (And it's especially hard because Fain's not talking about his decision-making process on this right now.)
So I'm left to wonder: Has Fain really not thought much about this issue? Is he really comfortable with the possibility of going down in history as the youngest Washington State Senator to vote against gay marriage the year it passed? Can he really imagine a "no" vote potentially following him for decades of future public service? Or does he really think that society is moving toward less acceptance of gay couples, and therefore future decades will bear out his current against-the-grain foresight?
Most of all, though, I just come back to this: Joe Fain, 31, is undecided on gay marriage—really?
3
Indecision is the hallmark of a second-class mind. Yes or no, I prefer politicians who make choices. That is what leadership is, making decisions on issues that efffect your present and future constituents. Politicians are never elected to do nothing. I may not agree with some decisions, I may not even like them, but I do respect the effort it takes to make a stand.
4
It's not his age, it's his district. Regardless of his age and personal beliefs, and regardless of the general trend toward acceptance in WA, he is nevertheless in a relatively red district. If he votes for this, it may very well mean the end of his political career... at least in that district. Not that that makes his waffling right, just understandable.
6
I haven't seen any statements he's made on the issue, just that he hasn't said anything. I checked his voting record, he was one of only a 3 or 4 Republicans who supported recognizing out of state marriages as domestic partnerships, recognizing the rights of gay partners in parentage and adoption, and supported an anti gay bullying legislation. His district largely opposed domestic partnerships in 2009 yet he still seems open to supporting gay rights. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt until the votes are cast.
7
"Gay Marriage" is such a destructive term and no one that is interested in Equal Marriage rights should use it. Maybe the Senator is shy about the word "Gay". He might support Marriage Equality, but it (marriage) is NOT being presented that way. It's being presented as Gay.
8
#6 this is why it is so important that if you or anyone you know live in his district that you give him a call and ask him to support marriage equality.
He needs to be able to say I received x-number of calls to my office the majority of which supported my voting to protect all Washington families…
Clearly he is willing to do the right thing but needs to be reminded of that fact. He may also be holding out to do some good old fashioned political horse trading.
He needs to be able to say I received x-number of calls to my office the majority of which supported my voting to protect all Washington families…
Clearly he is willing to do the right thing but needs to be reminded of that fact. He may also be holding out to do some good old fashioned political horse trading.
9
He's still bothered by the "ick factor," you see, so therefore all gay people should be denied the right to marry because of his personal discomfort with the issue.
11
@ 9 I know plenty of people who find it icky but still support marriage equality because it the right thing to do.
12
Um, the thing is, his decision is not a personal decision. He may be wrong, he may be right, he may be an asshole but he really should be taking his constituents desires into consideration (among many other things). I find it easy to imagine that in a similar position anyone with a working brain might be conflicted between leading and following.
13
#4 Its not a red district, its the most purple of purple. In 2010, it went for Rossi over Murray 50.2% to 49.8%. So in a normal year it would have been about 53-47 Murray.
14
So we use his support of equality against him. He votes for marriage equality, then we use it against him when he runs for reelection and we get a conservative democrat in there.
15
As a straight person who's been on this planet for over 60 years, I gotta say, what I think is "icky" is some scenario like that Duggar family, right wingers with 19 or 20 offspring; that is unbelievable selfishness and completely disgusting.
Any two humans who love one another and want to give marriage a shot, I say, go for it. It isn't for the faint of heart.
But don't contribute to overpopulation.
Any two humans who love one another and want to give marriage a shot, I say, go for it. It isn't for the faint of heart.
But don't contribute to overpopulation.
16
He's not "undecided". He just wants to see what he can get. He's like Senator Ben Nelson during the health care brouhaha—the belle of the ball for the first time in his insignificant career.
17
my gaydar goes off just looking at his picture sooo methinks his hesitance on this issue is part of a denial process (one we've witnessed many times before).
18
Joe is my senator and I've met him many times at our 47th district monthly meetings at Roundtable Pizza on Kent East. I put in my two cents in favor of Marriage Equality as a post on his Facebook page (yes, he is young and yes he uses social media).
The 47th as you can see ranges from dense suburbia to rural and so it's a hard row to hoe. Much of it is deeply religious, although people seem individually tolerant of others. For example, last year, I did not sign a petition against marriage equality that was passed around our meetings although it would have been more socially prudent to have done so.
22
Slog, how about the point I never seem to hear?
Does Joe Fain want jobs and out of state money in Washington? Marriage equality is coming--eventually--nationwide. Could be 2-10 years in a court case, could be 10-20 through combined legislation. Demographics show it's an inevitability. Look here:
http://andrewgelman.com/2009/06/future_t…
Share that with him. Point out that marriage equality is NOT going away in states where it's already there. Republicans talk about a constitutional Federal amendment against it. That demographic progression shows this will NEVER happen. 66% of states? Voters? Please.
Ask Joe Fain if he'll vote for marriage equality and the money that comes from lots of weddings, tourism from honeymoons, and if he wants all that money to go to New York, Connecticut, Vermont, and Massachusetts instead.
Does Joe Fain want jobs and out of state money in Washington? Marriage equality is coming--eventually--nationwide. Could be 2-10 years in a court case, could be 10-20 through combined legislation. Demographics show it's an inevitability. Look here:
http://andrewgelman.com/2009/06/future_t…
Share that with him. Point out that marriage equality is NOT going away in states where it's already there. Republicans talk about a constitutional Federal amendment against it. That demographic progression shows this will NEVER happen. 66% of states? Voters? Please.
Ask Joe Fain if he'll vote for marriage equality and the money that comes from lots of weddings, tourism from honeymoons, and if he wants all that money to go to New York, Connecticut, Vermont, and Massachusetts instead.
23
@19: if he wanted to be the deciding vote, he would have spoken out by now. How about this senario:
He might be willing to vote for marriage equality, but doesn't want to be the 25th vote. No one will remember who the 26th vote was next voting round (okay, they will, but not as much as the 25th right?).
He's young, and likely HAS made a decision, just doesn't want to say it yet. I get that. He doesn't want his district to have a big fight over him next election, precisely because it is such a evenly matched district (it could easily go against him).
So I say, he won't be the 25th, but he might be the - quick to add his name to the list - 26th
He might be willing to vote for marriage equality, but doesn't want to be the 25th vote. No one will remember who the 26th vote was next voting round (okay, they will, but not as much as the 25th right?).
He's young, and likely HAS made a decision, just doesn't want to say it yet. I get that. He doesn't want his district to have a big fight over him next election, precisely because it is such a evenly matched district (it could easily go against him).
So I say, he won't be the 25th, but he might be the - quick to add his name to the list - 26th
24
I think #23 has that right the person who is going to be the 25th and deciding vote is going to face a hard election. 1 reason I think getting Paull Shin (Lynwood, Edmonds, Mukilteo) is so important. Senator Shin has long time strong support in his district.
I am guessing his Mormon faith is the big block for him. He has voted with us in the past and is known for being very reasonable.
If you or anyone you know lives in his district please have them contact him
Mary Haugen (Whidbey & Camano Islands, Stanwood) is another strong possibility.
I am guessing his Mormon faith is the big block for him. He has voted with us in the past and is known for being very reasonable.
If you or anyone you know lives in his district please have them contact him
Mary Haugen (Whidbey & Camano Islands, Stanwood) is another strong possibility.
25
# 6 has provided a summary of his positive voting record, so it may be he's primarily opposed to the BIG M word (Marriage) and simply doesn't know how to bridge the dichotomy in his mind.
26
@23--That's actually the point I was trying to make, though I was less than clear in my insomniac fog.
28
I think, especially in this situation, that it's a mistake to interpret "undecided" as "how I personally feel about the issue" when what's far more likely is that it means "unclear on which way I should vote to best serve (my own/my constituents') interests."
29
Thanks for the analysis, 23, that makes a lot of sense. Hopefully someone will bite the bullet first. The way this issue is trending, they should think about how history will remember them rather than how next year will work out. We shall see.
30
Joe Fain is my senator. I ran against his former boss in 2005 (for King County Council). I worked for his opponent in the last election. I used to work for his mother (she was my grandboss until she retired). Yet I still wrote him a letter encouraging him to support the bill. If I can do it, anyone can. Write him. Call him. Be polite. He's actually an extremely bright, personable young man whose family just happens to be old-fashioned, rock-ribbed, country-club Republican. I think his mind can be changed. I don't think he can be swayed by insults and nastiness, but I'll bet reasoned arguments would work just fine, especially if they come from constituents.
And anyone who thinks WA-47 is a red district knows very little about it. We are the most swinging of swing districts. ;-)
And anyone who thinks WA-47 is a red district knows very little about it. We are the most swinging of swing districts. ;-)
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