Slog
News & ArtsTuesday, January 17, 2012
Religion That's Just Wrong
Posted by Dan Savage on Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 1:18 PM
If a couple of Christian nutjobs want to show up at the DMV and scream bible verses at a captive audience of people waiting in line... I say let 'em scream. That kind of assholery doesn't win converts. Just the opposite.
1
Well Occupy Wall Street seems to think that Mic checks do work. Why does this sort of thing not work when religious zealots do the same thing?
3
Ugh, as if going to the DMV doesn't suck enough already.
I don't think it's ever about winning converts with these people. It's about stoking their persecution complexes and drawing attention to themselves. When's the last time anyone spontaneously converted from being yelled at in a slow-moving line?
I don't think it's ever about winning converts with these people. It's about stoking their persecution complexes and drawing attention to themselves. When's the last time anyone spontaneously converted from being yelled at in a slow-moving line?
5
Forgive you @4. Especially since yer the first self-righteous person on the internet.
Actually, people shouldn't be subject to this shit whether it creates new friends or foes. People should be left alone. My politics = it's OK is bad math. Yer wrong on this, Dan.
Actually, people shouldn't be subject to this shit whether it creates new friends or foes. People should be left alone. My politics = it's OK is bad math. Yer wrong on this, Dan.
6
It makes for interesting conversation at the dinner table though. I'm guessing those arrested feel that their 1st amendment rights have been stepped upon? Wonder how they would have felt had they been waiting in line for the DMV and someone was reciting "God is not great," the Vedas, the Quran, "Twilight," the Torah, the Tipitaka...? Perhaps they would have not been very appreciative?
7
@1: How long did you wait in line for your driver's license at Westlake Park before you realized you weren't at the DMV?
9
@2 in some states they make you come in to renew your license periodically, rather than unlimited online renewals Something about an eye test. I hadn't been for over 10 years. It was unpleasant as it was. It would be unbearable with some idiot shouting.
10
What bothers me is when I finally get to the front of the queue, and the lady has decorated her booth like it's the sunday school class. To me, that totally crosses the personal expression vs. my rights to not be preached at vs. separation of church and state line.
11
I'm going to have to go with, "no, they don't have the right to do this." For one thing, it's an enclosed space, and the people there can't just walk away if they're annoyed by the proselytizing; they have to stay close enough to hear their number being called, they need reasonable quiet in order to concentrate on testing, etc., not to mention the fact that, since this is a government facility where the 2nd Amendment has to be enforced, allowing one group to do this immediately opens the door for any other group or individual to act in a similar manner, which can only result in complete chaos and nobody getting anything done whatsoever.
So, if they want to preach, let them do it outside.
So, if they want to preach, let them do it outside.
12
@11,
I believe you mean the First Amendment.
@4,
In California, you can set up an appointment for your driving test. It makes the DMV almost bearable.
I believe you mean the First Amendment.
@4,
In California, you can set up an appointment for your driving test. It makes the DMV almost bearable.
14
@ 1, mic check is about confrontation, not conversion.
I know you have a whole lot of antipathy for OWS, and a lot of it's deserved, but you need to remain fair...
I know you have a whole lot of antipathy for OWS, and a lot of it's deserved, but you need to remain fair...
15
@11,@12 "...since this is a government facility where the 2nd Amendment has to be enforced"
Wow. I think the DMV and driving both just got extra awesome!
Wow. I think the DMV and driving both just got extra awesome!
16
@11, 12
Considering the frustration levels often encountered in the DMV, neither the first nor second amendment should be honored.
Considering the frustration levels often encountered in the DMV, neither the first nor second amendment should be honored.
18
The linked-to quoted excerpt of the complaint says that the bible-readers were reading to people waiting in line _outside_ the DMV.
If the readers were standing on the sidewalk or other public right of way, then I think they should have been left alone. If they were in a parking lot or other DMV property, then the DMV could ask them to leave, and ask the police to cite them from trespassing if they refused.
I don't particularly like the fact that they were apparently cited for causing a disturbance.
If the readers were standing on the sidewalk or other public right of way, then I think they should have been left alone. If they were in a parking lot or other DMV property, then the DMV could ask them to leave, and ask the police to cite them from trespassing if they refused.
I don't particularly like the fact that they were apparently cited for causing a disturbance.
19
Can I stand in front of churches, screaming endlessly about how we must appease the great god of death Mictlantecuhtli - the ruler of the tenth day and fifth Lord of the Night - with the bones of noble sacrifices? I think people need to hear about this. Mictlantecuhtli really wants those bones.
20
Ha. "No cause for arrest?" Ha.
How about "incitement of riot?" The people standing in line at DMV are fuming as it is. It's a tinderbox of hostile emotion. They may not know it, but the police probably saved those idiots' lives.
How about "incitement of riot?" The people standing in line at DMV are fuming as it is. It's a tinderbox of hostile emotion. They may not know it, but the police probably saved those idiots' lives.
22
There's video of the event floating around on the tubes — I remember seeing it when a relative who lives in the area posted it on her FB page. The video exists because they very clearly INTENDED to be arrested. When the cop arrives, the guy reading aloud (very loudly) doesn't even look up. He is clearly aiming to get arrested. It wasn't about converts; it was about publicity, pure and simple. And, maybe, also about protesting that our country isn't (in theory, anyway) a theocracy.
24
Fuuuuuuuck. I think I'd have to start screaming right back. No words, just screaming. Seriously, I can't even stand it when the TV is on in the waiting room at Jiffy Lube. That is the kind of thing that might make me need to stab someone.
25
In nyc people do this ALL the time on the subway. Even really, painfully early in the morning. It's terrible, but that's why we have headphones.
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