Slog
News & ArtsTuesday, January 17, 2012
Savage Love SL Letter of the Day: DTMFAsshole
Posted by Dan Savage on Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 3:41 PM
I live with my boyfriend of 10 months. It's awesome: we both have extremely high libidos, we're both into D/s stuff, we're both sensitive romantics, we're both intellectual, we share the same level of religious commitment, etc. However... two months after we started dating, Boyfriend told me that he wanted me to lose weight. It destroyed my self-confidence. He brings it up every time we have some kind of disagreement—but always very sweetly and concernedly. I'm between grad school and gainful employment at the moment, and I've been really depressed. Boyfriend says he'll have to break up with me for his own mental health if I don't get psychological help... and go to the gym every day. Everyone who hears this thinks I should break up with him, but I'm so in love with him that I've convinced myself that this is harder for him than it is for me. What do I do?
Foolish And Tearful
My response after the jump...
··················
You break up with Boyfriend, FAT, you get help for depression, you take better care yourself generally, and you take better care of your body particularly—not so you can be a particular size, FAT, but so that you can enjoy a long, healthy life. And share it with someone better.
1
I'd be curious to know what images of women that BF is filling his brain with. We're so inundated with images of young lean-muscled bodies that our expectations of what our loved one should be physically is often screwed up big time. You hit the target bulls eye Dan, she should kick his butt to the curb, hit the gym, and not look back.
3
Let the asshole go.
If it wasn't this, he'd find some other reason to try destroy your self esteem.
And undoubtedly, he'd find some other reasons to destroy the self-esteem of every other woman he claimed to "love."
He deserves to spend quality time with himself, stewing in his own juices.
If it wasn't this, he'd find some other reason to try destroy your self esteem.
And undoubtedly, he'd find some other reasons to destroy the self-esteem of every other woman he claimed to "love."
He deserves to spend quality time with himself, stewing in his own juices.
4
There's plenty a dudes who go bonkers over plus size gals, of all types. Don't hit the gym if you don't want to. Fuck that gym / skinny girl shit. You don't want to pick some weight battle that will only get harder for the rest of your life. Find someone who finds you attractive for a change, there are plenty of good men out there.
5
I'd like to add that it's certainly possible to be fit, and still be fat. I work out three days a week, with a trainer. Going on nine months.. I'm definitely more fit, but still the same 270 lbs.
If you want to be fit... to have a long, healthy life... don't pressure yourself to be a particular weight or a particular size. Just do the exercise because it makes you feel better, healthier, stronger, regardless.
If you want to be fit... to have a long, healthy life... don't pressure yourself to be a particular weight or a particular size. Just do the exercise because it makes you feel better, healthier, stronger, regardless.
6
And I've got to say Dan's response is anti-fat.
"not so you can be a particular size, FAT, but so that you can enjoy a long, healthy life" Bullshit! Dan doesn't like fat people, one way or another. He has the mentality of your asshole BF here.
"not so you can be a particular size, FAT, but so that you can enjoy a long, healthy life" Bullshit! Dan doesn't like fat people, one way or another. He has the mentality of your asshole BF here.
7
Hardly the worst case of DTMFA I've read here over the years, but yeah, I agree. He's got some growing up to do.
9
I think you *should* work out -- I think everyone should, fat or skinny -- and there's a good chance it will help with your depression. And do whatever else you need to get yourself in a good place, mentally -- spend time with friends, volunteer, eat healthy food, go to therapy if that's helpful for you. Then, when you're feeling better about yourself, break up with your boyfriend.
10
@6 and I heard from a good source your actually a rapist. I dunno... its wierd but they just strolled over and said it.
DTMFA is so much the sane advice here its scary...
DTMFA is so much the sane advice here its scary...
11
When a simple disagreement can spark an onslaught of things your partner doesn't like about you, it's time to move on.
13
Bringing up your weight when you come back from a doctor's visit with high blood pressure, dangerous blood sugar levels, joint pain or other possibly weight related health issues = concerned boyfriend looking out for your well being.
Bringing up your weight every time you have "some kind of disagreement" - no matter how "sweetly and concernedly" = controlling asshole who doesn't deserve you. Or anyone else.
Do what Dan says. DTMFA.
Bringing up your weight every time you have "some kind of disagreement" - no matter how "sweetly and concernedly" = controlling asshole who doesn't deserve you. Or anyone else.
Do what Dan says. DTMFA.
14
I don't imagine "Asshole" really means to be an asshole. He's probably frustrated that this girl he started dating is now unemployed, out of shape, and too depressed to do anything about it; that's understandable frustration, but it doesn't give him license to be a dick.
If he finds that he can't deal with the situation, he should get out of it for his own sake as well as hers; and similarly, if she doesn't like how he's dealing with things, she needs to get out, too.
I don't feel like they should necessarily write it off right this minute, though. She needs to put her foot down and tell the guy that the nagging has to stop, and she needs to get herself straightened out so she's fit to be with someone. If they can't both meet those criteria, yeah, they should split, but I don't see why they can't do those things together instead of apart. It sounds like they could BOTH stand some time with a therapist, though, for reals.
I guess the real red flag is that this started just two months after they started dating. That's pretty shitty. I don't know, I identify with the boyfriend here more than I'd like to. His conduct isn't okay and it sounds like there may be some unhealthy preconceptions and entitlement behind it, rather than sincere concern, though.
Oh, and FAT, you should exercise, and you should be in shape, but like Dan says, that's just so you can be healthy, not so you'll look any particular way. If he didn't like how you looked when you started dating, that was his goddamn mistake and he can take his arbitrary standards elsewhere, and if he did like it, he needs to squelch whatever internalized shame is making him act like this now.
Ugh. This situation makes me sad.
If he finds that he can't deal with the situation, he should get out of it for his own sake as well as hers; and similarly, if she doesn't like how he's dealing with things, she needs to get out, too.
I don't feel like they should necessarily write it off right this minute, though. She needs to put her foot down and tell the guy that the nagging has to stop, and she needs to get herself straightened out so she's fit to be with someone. If they can't both meet those criteria, yeah, they should split, but I don't see why they can't do those things together instead of apart. It sounds like they could BOTH stand some time with a therapist, though, for reals.
I guess the real red flag is that this started just two months after they started dating. That's pretty shitty. I don't know, I identify with the boyfriend here more than I'd like to. His conduct isn't okay and it sounds like there may be some unhealthy preconceptions and entitlement behind it, rather than sincere concern, though.
Oh, and FAT, you should exercise, and you should be in shape, but like Dan says, that's just so you can be healthy, not so you'll look any particular way. If he didn't like how you looked when you started dating, that was his goddamn mistake and he can take his arbitrary standards elsewhere, and if he did like it, he needs to squelch whatever internalized shame is making him act like this now.
Ugh. This situation makes me sad.
16
"He brings it up every time we have some kind of disagreement-" So basically, he uses something he knows is hurtful to win arguments? He's a shithead loser. Life is too short to live it with someone who doesn't fight fair.
17
Wow, what the FUCK. I don't care how good the rest is, someone who "sweetly and concernedly" DESTROYS YOUR SELF ESTEEM and makes every fight about your weight and appearance is a fucking douchebag who deserves to die alone. Just because his tone isn't violent doesn't mean he's not saying things deliberately to hurt you.
18
DTMFA and do whatever you need to do to be happy again. And please don't start obsessing over weight loss just because your jackass ex-boyfriend called you fat.
Getting out of school into a tough economy and weak job market is stressful and I empathize with your situation. Try to find de-stressing activities that work for you: a new hobby, a good book, a long walk...it doesn't have to be "find a psychologist and get your ass to the gym" type of thing (although in some cases it may be necessary).
Getting out of school into a tough economy and weak job market is stressful and I empathize with your situation. Try to find de-stressing activities that work for you: a new hobby, a good book, a long walk...it doesn't have to be "find a psychologist and get your ass to the gym" type of thing (although in some cases it may be necessary).
19
He brings it up every time we have some kind of disagreement—but always very sweetly and concernedly.
If he's bringing it up during unrelated arguments, then it doesn't matter how "sweetly and concernedly" he's saying it, he's still doing it to deliberately undermine you during the argument. Dick move.
20
The only possible thing that could justify the BF's actions is if during this entire two-plus months, she has been stuffing herself like a Roman glutton and gaining weight at a record-setting pace. If that is the case, then yeah, he is just being loving and concerned (if we can take her assessment of how he times his advice with a grain of salt).
...but that all seems pretty darn unlikely. I'm thinking, smart money says Dan's advice is spot on. I'm joining the DTMFA chorus.
...but that all seems pretty darn unlikely. I'm thinking, smart money says Dan's advice is spot on. I'm joining the DTMFA chorus.
22
Also, he started bringing this up only two months after they'd been dating so, give or take a few pounds, she really had to be about the same size as when they got together. This makes him an even bigger asshole. Dan has commented that we while time and gravity eventually makes trolls of us all, we owe our partners some amount of effort to maintain who we are in the early stages of relationship (barring serious physical/medical issues, of course). If you used to work out regularly and were in good shape but then suddenly stop working out, eating like crap and put on 50 to 100 pounds in a year, then you haven't done your due diligence in trying to stay the person you presented yourself to be. Not that your partner should necessarily just cut and run but in that circumstance it might be understandable if they lost some amount of sexual interest and brought it up in an *actual* concerned partner kind of way. By which I mean, not like this asshole.
23
I have exercised for years, and I'm healthy and fit. I'm also a good 35 lbs over weight. In the last 5 years of exercising, I have lost about 5 lbs total. Getting in shape is not the same as losing weight. And losing weight will probably only be temporary, unless you are willing to spend at least 5 years slavishly paying attention to every bite and pound you gain, so you can work to lose it again. Trying to lose weight so you feel better about yourself is backwards. You need to feel better about yourself first. Work towards living a healthy lifestyle. Work to eat because you are hungry, not because you are depressed. After you get those things in place, you can decide if you also want to go on a diet. But do it for yourself, not because of some asshole who wants to make you feel bad about yourself.
DTMFA. He will never be happy with you the way you are. He is a controlling asshole who doesn't want you happy. He wants you under his thumb. D/s is great in the bedroom, but totally unacceptable outside of it.
Do what you need to do to get your self esteem back where it should be. Exercise because it makes you feel better, fights depression and helps you live a better life. Find someone who loves you for who you are, not who they want to turn you into. Men are looking for kinky women. This loser is not the only fish in the kinky sea.
DTMFA. He will never be happy with you the way you are. He is a controlling asshole who doesn't want you happy. He wants you under his thumb. D/s is great in the bedroom, but totally unacceptable outside of it.
Do what you need to do to get your self esteem back where it should be. Exercise because it makes you feel better, fights depression and helps you live a better life. Find someone who loves you for who you are, not who they want to turn you into. Men are looking for kinky women. This loser is not the only fish in the kinky sea.
25
While I agree with DTMFA, why the assumption that FAT isn't already taking care of herself and her body?
27
A little sidenote...
They're both into D/S and they have the same level of religious commitment. !?! So... Are they extreme Catholics or atheists?Or maybe she's Jewish and he's Catholic?
They're both into D/S and they have the same level of religious commitment. !?! So... Are they extreme Catholics or atheists?Or maybe she's Jewish and he's Catholic?
28
LW (I refuse to call you fat), if your relationship is everything you say it is, then it can handle you sitting him down & saying, "BF, I love you, but you're no longer going to pester me about my weight. No matter how you mean it, it hurts me. Being constantly hurt by the one you love is the most painful form of suicide. Before I do anything more for you, you're going to do this for me: You're going to swear by our love that you're not going to belittle me about my body ever again."
Good Luck.
Good Luck.
29
I have a somewhat different take. She agrees that she is depressed. I think it's at least possible that she's mishearing his concern about her depression (and never leaving the house/getting out of bed/looking for a job) as criticism of her weight. Maybe she could keep a journal where she could write down exactly what he says that offends her? Maybe she could start seeing a professional, to talk about her own issues, and how those intersect with whatever her boyfriend is saying to her?
I think a good first step would be to make sure she has an alternative living situation, so she isn't forced to stay with him in order to have a roof over her head.
I think a good first step would be to make sure she has an alternative living situation, so she isn't forced to stay with him in order to have a roof over her head.
30
And another thing, why's it considered kinky for men to be into submissive women? Isnt it just barfishly old-fashioned?
31
Sorry, but this whole thing reads like a transparent attempt to pander to fat people.
I bet Dan scanned and scanned his emails until he found one outrageous—yet still believable— enough so he could lay down the heavy pro-fat righteous indignation.
I bet Dan scanned and scanned his emails until he found one outrageous—yet still believable— enough so he could lay down the heavy pro-fat righteous indignation.
32
this was me 30 years ago. the boyfriend nagged me incessantly to lose weight, when i was 5'3" and 115 pounds! he justified it by saying he didn't want to be embarrassed to be seen with me. we didn't have dan around to tell me to DTMFA, so i didn't dump him for another year.
33
Dear LW,
Exercise for your pleasure. Do it because it will help raise your spirits and because it is helpful in keeping internal fat from building on your vital organs (internal fat does not care if your jean size is 2 or 22, but its presence is presently seen as a link for Type 2 diabetes, ovarian cancer, uterine cancer, and more). And consider both Dan's and aardvark's advice (not the Dan hates part, but that women are beautiful in all sizes and some gentlemen delight in lovely voluptuous curves). And consider that there is a difference between being concerned for someone and using a criticism as a weapon to belittle self-esteem. Your letter suggests the later is the case here. Chin up and take care.
Exercise for your pleasure. Do it because it will help raise your spirits and because it is helpful in keeping internal fat from building on your vital organs (internal fat does not care if your jean size is 2 or 22, but its presence is presently seen as a link for Type 2 diabetes, ovarian cancer, uterine cancer, and more). And consider both Dan's and aardvark's advice (not the Dan hates part, but that women are beautiful in all sizes and some gentlemen delight in lovely voluptuous curves). And consider that there is a difference between being concerned for someone and using a criticism as a weapon to belittle self-esteem. Your letter suggests the later is the case here. Chin up and take care.
34
As a note, antidepressants + therapy are usually the best treatment for depression, and she'll probably gain weight on antidepressants. As others have pointed out, exercising is a huge help for a lot of people who are depressed, and it doesn't necessarily mean you'll lose weight. So I think it's important to emphasize doing some kind of physical activity (such as going to the gym, though sometimes even going for a walk can be really tough to get yourself to do while depressed) rather than losing weight.
35
"....It destroyed my self-confidence. He brings it up every time we have some kind of disagreement."
This is an 'awesome' relationship?
Clearly she should dump this dude, but that won't be the end of her troubles. Not because of her weight, but because her sense of self-worth is so fucked up, presumably by her depression. Dan is right that she needs to take better care of herself--not only by getting out of this emotionally abusive relationship, but also by getting help for her depression.
Exercise is often helpful for mood disorders, and exercise can also boost self-esteem. This in turn will help her in her job search. It sounds simplistic, but beyond Dumping The MotherFucker, the single smartest thing that she could do would be to commence a serious workout regimen.
This is an 'awesome' relationship?
Clearly she should dump this dude, but that won't be the end of her troubles. Not because of her weight, but because her sense of self-worth is so fucked up, presumably by her depression. Dan is right that she needs to take better care of herself--not only by getting out of this emotionally abusive relationship, but also by getting help for her depression.
Exercise is often helpful for mood disorders, and exercise can also boost self-esteem. This in turn will help her in her job search. It sounds simplistic, but beyond Dumping The MotherFucker, the single smartest thing that she could do would be to commence a serious workout regimen.
36
Not to go off on a tangent, because this shouldn't matter in terms of the advice given, but is the "religious commitment" thing the only reason we're assuming LW is a hetero "she"?
Above and beyond Asshole's protocol and insensitivity, there seems to be, from the perspective of commenters, an additional-component stock answer for women with body-image issues and guys who like "skinny girls" (they're programmed by the media, etc), that don't seem to be called out in the same way when it's done gay-on-gay.
@27 Maybe their "same levels of religious commitment" are "very little"?
Above and beyond Asshole's protocol and insensitivity, there seems to be, from the perspective of commenters, an additional-component stock answer for women with body-image issues and guys who like "skinny girls" (they're programmed by the media, etc), that don't seem to be called out in the same way when it's done gay-on-gay.
@27 Maybe their "same levels of religious commitment" are "very little"?
37
It's one thing for a person say "Lose weight honey; I want you to live longer." It's one thing to say, "I'd be more attracted to you minus a few pounds." But this guy says brings it up every time there's an argument? That's a poke from a weapon, not a statement of preference.
38
Upon further consideration I retract my statement that they should work this out. The controlling bullshit began too early, and, damn, he brings it up in every fight? "Oh, honey, why can't you put the lid back on the toothpaste, and by the way, you should try to be less fat?" Fuck that. Everything else I said was okay, but yeah, they need to split, and this guy needs to get some help too, not just FAT. He needs to sort out whatever's making him project his own dissatisfaction this way and learn to, you know, not be an asshole.
39
And do forgive me (@33) if I have made an assumption, because my being depressed often leads me to inactivity and a wish to withdraw, and you are doing your best to take care of yourself with all you are facing, LW. Tis wrong for me to assume. Be well and happy with yourself.
Take care.
Take care.
41
Balderdash and EricaP, this is two months into the realationship and he brings it up most of the time during arguments. It's meant to bring her down and there is no way she could have gained that much weight in a two month period. He sounds like one of those horrible people who find people that they know that they can control and put down and they will just take it. Plus, adding in the D/s relationship, it could be that it has developed passed fun bedroom play and outright disrespect. He know he can control her in the bedroom, now let's try to make her into his perfect little submissive nonopinionated wife. I know the majority of the time D/s relationships are not like this, but I have seen this happen to friends of mine. The guy is a piece of shit.
42
Yeah, his using an ad hominem attack to win any and every argument is as sure a sign as any that this guy is an immature asshole.
43
Thanks, stuckie@36 and kim@39 for pointing out some unwarranted assumptions... If the LW is in fact happy with the overall situation except for the Boyfriend, then cutting out the Boyfriend does seem the way to go.
44
Indeed, there are better ways to show concern for someone. It's easy to want to fall into the 'demanding' trap -- if you see your SO is not doing something you think s/he should, you can get nervous about it and start insisting that s/he do even when it's not convenient to talk about it -- but a trap it is, and it brings bile into the best relationships. If they're already at this phase, either they talk it out so that boyfriend here changes his behavior, or then they should split. What he's doing is simply not fair.
@aardvark, so you think advice that basically tells people to lead healthier lives -- and in most (though not all) cases, being overweight does imply health risks -- is tantamount to hating fat people?
@aardvark, so you think advice that basically tells people to lead healthier lives -- and in most (though not all) cases, being overweight does imply health risks -- is tantamount to hating fat people?
45
A side note, but I noticed that everyone assumed that the author is a woman. I couldn't tell from the letter itself. Regardless, I agree that the author deserves someone kinder.
46
aw, kim... just want to clarify i dont mean to seriously call out dan as a fat phobic, because i believe he's trying to play nice. rather, i just think of the people i know well who have this weird fixation on being skinny, which to me looks like alot of neurotic behavior, obsessive weight watching, etc. some dudes i know are like the guy at @32. its maddening.
also though part of fat phobia is the notion of rationalizing fat critiques do to health concerns. alot of times people can be a little overweight and perfectly healthy but some people will still call them fatties...
also though part of fat phobia is the notion of rationalizing fat critiques do to health concerns. alot of times people can be a little overweight and perfectly healthy but some people will still call them fatties...
47
He's not sweet and concerned, he found a way to instantly make you feel bad about yourself, thereby giving him a leg up in any argument. If he cared and wanted to help, the *last* time he'd bring it up would be during arguments.
And he will never dump you--you are the ideal girlfriend for him, right down to falling for his manipulative shit.
Do what it takes to make yourself feel better. The first step should be cutting off that millstone around your neck. DTMFA, you'll feel lighter immediately.
And he will never dump you--you are the ideal girlfriend for him, right down to falling for his manipulative shit.
Do what it takes to make yourself feel better. The first step should be cutting off that millstone around your neck. DTMFA, you'll feel lighter immediately.
49
@41 I'm just not sure he's saying what the LW says he's saying. When people are depressed, they can sometimes hear things as derogatory which were not meant that way. Suppose he says in these fights, "and you promised to get some exercise, but you haven't!"
I'm just allowing for the possibility that the LW hears that as a dig about weight, where the boyfriend is only trying to get the LW to fight off the isolation and depression.
But in any case, the LW should start by finding a place to live away from the boyfriend.
I'm just allowing for the possibility that the LW hears that as a dig about weight, where the boyfriend is only trying to get the LW to fight off the isolation and depression.
But in any case, the LW should start by finding a place to live away from the boyfriend.
50
Quick comment re @30: There is a HUGE difference between being a generally submissive women, as Michelle Bachman says we should all be (right!), and being a woman who likes to be the submissive during sex. I'm an extremely independent woman and have lived alone for over seven years. I like men who respect my independence and intelligence, while still treating me like a lady. However, once I'm in a sexual relationship, I love being submissive IN BED, but only in bed. In the actual relationship and in our everyday lives, we are equal partners. I am not submissive to men, in general, but I will be submissive to A man in 1 particular situation. The two are not the same.
And I agree with Dan. If the LW decides to go to the gym, or to see a therapist, she should do so only for herself, and not for the BF. It is not anti-fat to tell somebody that if they want to lose weight they should do it not because some asshole wants her to, but because she wants to be more healthy. In fact, that is the only way that any weight loss will be permanent. At least that has been the case for me.
I can relate to the LW. About 12 years ago, I was married and very overweight, and my husband would often say things in a similar fashion as the BF. It made me feel horrible and depressed. Due to a chronic illness, I finally started eating much better and getting more exercise. When I dropped the weight, and felt better health-wise, I woke up and realized I didn't like being married. Imagine my poor husband's surprise when I had finally lost weight and felt good, and then I told him I wanted a divorce. And I've never looked back!
LW, you can do it, but do it for yourself, not some asshole who treats you like shit. Good luck!
And I agree with Dan. If the LW decides to go to the gym, or to see a therapist, she should do so only for herself, and not for the BF. It is not anti-fat to tell somebody that if they want to lose weight they should do it not because some asshole wants her to, but because she wants to be more healthy. In fact, that is the only way that any weight loss will be permanent. At least that has been the case for me.
I can relate to the LW. About 12 years ago, I was married and very overweight, and my husband would often say things in a similar fashion as the BF. It made me feel horrible and depressed. Due to a chronic illness, I finally started eating much better and getting more exercise. When I dropped the weight, and felt better health-wise, I woke up and realized I didn't like being married. Imagine my poor husband's surprise when I had finally lost weight and felt good, and then I told him I wanted a divorce. And I've never looked back!
LW, you can do it, but do it for yourself, not some asshole who treats you like shit. Good luck!
51
When you're really in love with someone, you don't try to change that person. It would be great if your boyfriend just wanted to help you with your depression, but criticizing your weight every time you have a disagreement isn't the way to accomplish that. He doesn't really love you, and you deserve someone who does.
52
I'm all for encouraging your partner to care for their physical and psychological health, but if he ONLY brings it up during TOTALLY UNRELATED arguments, he's an asshole. If he threatens to dump you, he's an asshole. If you want to dump, dump. If you don't want to dump, don't dump. If you don't want to dump, but do want to categorize every aspect of someone's body and personality that make you want to dump them, you should get dumped. Especially if it started so early in the relationship, and especially if you're already having some low self-esteem about your job/life situation.
53
I'm all for encouraging your partner to care for their physical and psychological health, but if he ONLY brings it up during TOTALLY UNRELATED arguments, he's an asshole. If he threatens to dump you, he's an asshole. If you want to dump, dump. If you don't want to dump, don't dump. If you don't want to dump, but do want to categorize every aspect of someone's body and personality that make you want to dump them, you should get dumped. Especially if it started so early in the relationship. Living with the self-esteem eating monster is probably not going to make your depression any better.
54
Here's the thing: Presumably two months after you started dating, when he started his size-bashing, you were roughly the same size you were when he was first attracted to you. So this isn't a case of "concern". It's a case of control. He's found a way to hurt you that he can do while smiling sweetly and feeling self-righteous. If it wasn't your weight, it would be something else – guaranteed. This is a man who needs to wound you deeply in order to feel his own self-worth. I don't have to know you to know you deserve better than him... no one should have to put up with this particular breed of jerk. Dump him.
55
My mother dated this guy. She was tiny--my sister and I, two normal and athletic women, stopped fitting into her wedding gown when we were about 12. But her boyfriend wanted her to be tinier yet, so she took diet pills and starved and went up and down. Boyfriend, who by then was her husband, was never pleased with how she looked. Ever. Always brought it up as a matter of sweet concern for her health. Then the happy couple had me and my sister, and wouldn't you know that the asshole started in on us as soon as we hit adolescence? I remember my father carefully examining my knees to determine if my weight was right or not. I was a size four, and about 15 years old.
LW, this guy isn't concerned. He's found an effective weapon, one that shuts down arguments AND makes him feel bigger because it makes you feel smaller. His unfortunate character flaw--if that's what you want call this sort of intimate cruelty--may also have something to do with how he feels about women generally, but it's not your job to sort that out. Just dump him. Boot the guy and get a different roommate. Betcha your depression starts to lift. And you will have done your future daughters an enormous favor.
LW, this guy isn't concerned. He's found an effective weapon, one that shuts down arguments AND makes him feel bigger because it makes you feel smaller. His unfortunate character flaw--if that's what you want call this sort of intimate cruelty--may also have something to do with how he feels about women generally, but it's not your job to sort that out. Just dump him. Boot the guy and get a different roommate. Betcha your depression starts to lift. And you will have done your future daughters an enormous favor.
56
To the LW,
I agree with @33, go have fun, preferably moving around and oxygenating your brain. If you just finished grad school then fun maybe something you've had in short supply for quite a while. Get and stay healthy; again, grad students frequently don't take care of themselves (like sleeping, making Dr. and dentist appointments, even finding living conditions that don't have asshole roommates). In this economy finding a position may be a long haul, so try to shed aggravation and get happy!
Peace.
I agree with @33, go have fun, preferably moving around and oxygenating your brain. If you just finished grad school then fun maybe something you've had in short supply for quite a while. Get and stay healthy; again, grad students frequently don't take care of themselves (like sleeping, making Dr. and dentist appointments, even finding living conditions that don't have asshole roommates). In this economy finding a position may be a long haul, so try to shed aggravation and get happy!
Peace.
57
@36 raises a valid point--no real indication of the gender of LW. If this were clearly a gay couple, would the same level of outrage be voiced? And isn't that in itself a double standard--a full figured woman is voluptuous and some men like that, but is a fat man ever anything but fat?
Dan's advice is spot on, seconded by many commenters--go to the gym, get help for the depression, be healthier in general not for the boyfriend, but for him or herself. The gym is an excellent idea in terms of enforced physical activity as a means to combat depression: the rituals involved in going to the gym, having a reason for leaving the house for a specific reason a set number of times each week, the association with the gym regulars helps one dig out of the big hole that depression can become.
Dan's advice is spot on, seconded by many commenters--go to the gym, get help for the depression, be healthier in general not for the boyfriend, but for him or herself. The gym is an excellent idea in terms of enforced physical activity as a means to combat depression: the rituals involved in going to the gym, having a reason for leaving the house for a specific reason a set number of times each week, the association with the gym regulars helps one dig out of the big hole that depression can become.
58
Everything that MN said above, LW/FAT. I also dunno if you're a dude or a lady, but you sound female. This also sounds like a male/female dynamic to me. Listen: I don't care how good the sex is, anyone who whips out the weight card - presuming your weight has been close to the same all along - every time you have a fight? Manipulative dick. Plus, there's not real right or wrong time to move in, I guess, but I wish you'd known him better before sharing an address. I hope you deal with your depression - for you - & start to feel healthier - for you - & get a backup plan together. 'cause this isn't harder for him than it is for you, & years of this kinda jerking-you-around game would be seriously bad for you. Get some help - friends, therapy, exercise, whatever - that doesn't involve, hang in there looking for work & make sure you have a really clear plan B for if things don't work out.
@6: I used to also think Dan was just a fat-basher, & there's definitely been some times in the past where some of his posts - like the infamous "unsightly rolls of fat" or the vacationing couple whose rears he photographed - where I think he was being mean past the point, of making his point. But I think he's mellowed a bit. I don't read this answer as fatbashing at all. Exercise is a good idea, for pretty much everyone, & it was a huge help to me when I was depressed.
@6: I used to also think Dan was just a fat-basher, & there's definitely been some times in the past where some of his posts - like the infamous "unsightly rolls of fat" or the vacationing couple whose rears he photographed - where I think he was being mean past the point, of making his point. But I think he's mellowed a bit. I don't read this answer as fatbashing at all. Exercise is a good idea, for pretty much everyone, & it was a huge help to me when I was depressed.
59
D'oh - last sentence, 1st paragraph in @58 should read: "Get some help - friends, therapy, exercise, whatever - that doesn't involve HIM.."
Also, a couple of folks - like @ 55 - have suggested she just move or just get a different roommate. If the LW is unemployed & living w/ his or her BF, then the BF is paying the bills, which not only messes up the dynamic furhter but might make it hard or not possible to do either of those things. :/
Also, a couple of folks - like @ 55 - have suggested she just move or just get a different roommate. If the LW is unemployed & living w/ his or her BF, then the BF is paying the bills, which not only messes up the dynamic furhter but might make it hard or not possible to do either of those things. :/
60
I'm with @21 I wonder how fat she is.
And, i wonder why it manifested 2 months in. I wonder if he has a changer Dom kink...and he needs to change his subs for the better. Something's missing...
And, i wonder why it manifested 2 months in. I wonder if he has a changer Dom kink...and he needs to change his subs for the better. Something's missing...
61
@31 and @36, you are both being a little bit ridiculous. If Dan Savage criticizes some of the claims of the FA movement, then he's anti-fat. But if he writes some encouraging to an overweight woman being bullied by her boyfriend, then he is transparently covering up his anti-fat agenda. Either way, he can't win. Confirmation bias much?
62
I think she should stay with him and "sweetly and concernedly" bring up the fact that his dick is a lot smaller than her previous boyfriends' penises were the next time they fight about anything.
63
Leave him. If he asks why, just say "I deserve better." Because you do. I know this not because of any judgment on you I can make based on your letter. Because EVERYONE deserves better than this. Shit like this happening multiple times is bad, but multiple times over 10 months is unforgivable.
64
LW, if there's any chance you're reading this, in my own experience walking outdoors is better than the gym, at least when you're depressed and just starting to be physically active. You don't even need to put on workout clothes. Just make yourself get out and walk around for 10 minutes. It's free, it's not intimidating, it doesn't require much effort, which are all huge pluses over the gym, and outdoor exercise is better for treating depression than indoor exercise ( http://health.msn.com/health-topics/depr… ). Eventually, you'll start to feel better physically, and then you can begin doing more strenuous workouts. And always keep in mind that you're doing this for your health, not your appearance.
p.s. I live in Wisconsin, so I know how much it fucking sucks to go outside for 10 minutes in the winter. But it's pretty much the best antidepressant you can get without going to a doctor, which may not be an option for you if you're unemployed.
p.p.s Your boyfriend is a dick. DTMFA and forget about him.
p.s. I live in Wisconsin, so I know how much it fucking sucks to go outside for 10 minutes in the winter. But it's pretty much the best antidepressant you can get without going to a doctor, which may not be an option for you if you're unemployed.
p.p.s Your boyfriend is a dick. DTMFA and forget about him.
65
Honey, I lost over a hundred pounds when I finally D'd TMFA. About a hundred and fifty pounds, in fact, the instant he walked his sorry butt out the door. If you spend enough time being told that you aren't good enough, you will believe it yourself at a very deep level. Breaking free of this jerk is like putting on your own oxygen mask. Do it first.
66
I've this weird thing where I always like reading the unregistered comments, as I think the homophobe troll is hilarious in his ignorance fueled attempts to construct a valid argument, or even a coherent point. So every once in a while this pays off when an unregistered non-troll makes a nice contribution. Like @ 62 there does, swell idea.
67
"we're both intellectual, we share the same level of religious commitment"
ERROR ERROR...does not compute!
ERROR ERROR...does not compute!
68
21 ftw. Reading the letter, I thought, "Oh, look, a woman who is gaining 'comfort weight' during her relationship trying to find support from sightless third parties, likely because her friends, who actually see her, know about the 30 pounds she put on....already."
Pictures, or I assume boyfriend is the great guy she says, and it is her tub of gut that is the problem.
Pictures, or I assume boyfriend is the great guy she says, and it is her tub of gut that is the problem.
69
67:"we're both intellectual, we share the same level of religious commitment
ERROR ERROR...does not compute!"
Descartes
Maimonides
Augustine
Aquinas
More
Dr. David Livingstone
And the list is actually seemingly endless, you moron. What are your great intellectual works, as compared to those men of intellectual achievement and religious commitment?
ERROR ERROR...does not compute!"
Descartes
Maimonides
Augustine
Aquinas
More
Dr. David Livingstone
And the list is actually seemingly endless, you moron. What are your great intellectual works, as compared to those men of intellectual achievement and religious commitment?
70
@69
Saying "religious intellectual" is an oxymoron, there is a reason why the vast majority of scientists are atheists and why there always is a high correlation between education and lack of religiosity(the rest falls into victims of childhood indoctrination and cognitive dissonance).
Basically to be religious/christian you would have to deny:
anthropology
sociology
history
biology
physics
neurology(anyone paying attention to it in the last 30 years knows there is no such thing as souls)
cognitive sciences
genetics(we know for sure that Adam and Eve didn't exist therefore the sin thing crumbles, and no, Adam and Steve were not considered metaphors in the bible)
The only way you would have a religious intellectual is through heavy case of cognitive dissonance but in that case you would produce such addled, incoherent thoughts(like Andrew Sullivan regularly does when talking about his superstition) that you aren't worthy of that moniker anyway.
Saying "religious intellectual" is an oxymoron, there is a reason why the vast majority of scientists are atheists and why there always is a high correlation between education and lack of religiosity(the rest falls into victims of childhood indoctrination and cognitive dissonance).
Basically to be religious/christian you would have to deny:
anthropology
sociology
history
biology
physics
neurology(anyone paying attention to it in the last 30 years knows there is no such thing as souls)
cognitive sciences
genetics(we know for sure that Adam and Eve didn't exist therefore the sin thing crumbles, and no, Adam and Steve were not considered metaphors in the bible)
The only way you would have a religious intellectual is through heavy case of cognitive dissonance but in that case you would produce such addled, incoherent thoughts(like Andrew Sullivan regularly does when talking about his superstition) that you aren't worthy of that moniker anyway.
71
Oh yeah, get rid of this asshole. "Sweetly & concernedly" my ass. As many have said, he's a dick for bringing it up during arguments. If he really was concerned, he'd have an actual conversation about it when you weren't fighting about something else.
I also second everyone who has said that exercising can fight depression. While YMMV, it wasn't until I seriously committed to working out (biking to work in the summer, joining a gym in the winter) that I was able to stop taking antidepressants. I also second everyone who said that you may not be fat at all - but even so, working out isn't a bad idea. It generally reduces your risk of a lot of bad outcomes (heart disease, type 2 diabetes, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, blah blah). Do it for you, not for him.
And, as I read in a magazine once, when you move out, open a can of sardines and glue it to the underside of some piece of his furniture so that air gets in. He'll never find it and his whole house will eventually smell like rotting fish.
I also second everyone who has said that exercising can fight depression. While YMMV, it wasn't until I seriously committed to working out (biking to work in the summer, joining a gym in the winter) that I was able to stop taking antidepressants. I also second everyone who said that you may not be fat at all - but even so, working out isn't a bad idea. It generally reduces your risk of a lot of bad outcomes (heart disease, type 2 diabetes, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, blah blah). Do it for you, not for him.
And, as I read in a magazine once, when you move out, open a can of sardines and glue it to the underside of some piece of his furniture so that air gets in. He'll never find it and his whole house will eventually smell like rotting fish.
72
Ha ha Mattyx is talking out of his aaaassss!
"Saying "religious intellectual" is an oxymoron, there is a reason why the VAST MAJORITY of scientists are ATHEISTS [data?] and why there ALWAYS IS a HIGH CORRELATION [Data?] between education and lack of religiosity(the rest falls into victims of childhood indoctrination and cognitive dissonance)."
Data, buddy, data. Otherwise STFU. You are just another poser low-grade thinking spouting off his bigotries and pretending to know more than you do.
Go talk to the average Jesuit, and see how long your vaunted IQ and knowledge will stack up.
Again..../point and laugh
"Saying "religious intellectual" is an oxymoron, there is a reason why the VAST MAJORITY of scientists are ATHEISTS [data?] and why there ALWAYS IS a HIGH CORRELATION [Data?] between education and lack of religiosity(the rest falls into victims of childhood indoctrination and cognitive dissonance)."
Data, buddy, data. Otherwise STFU. You are just another poser low-grade thinking spouting off his bigotries and pretending to know more than you do.
Go talk to the average Jesuit, and see how long your vaunted IQ and knowledge will stack up.
Again..../point and laugh
73
why do boyfriends do this to girlfriends? If they have a problem with a particular size... don't date her. Be alone.
74
The guy is a dick, but she is too emotionally needy. Chances are, he want to be free of her, but doesn't want to be the bad guy and actually initiate the break up. He likes having a sex partner, but, doesn't want to be seen with a fat chick.
At the same time, she desperately wants a man in her life to take care of her, no matter who dickish he is to her. She doesn't really love him, she's in love with having a boyfriend, who ever he my be. She doesn't feel complete without a man.
She pours on the guilt to keep him, and he reacts with passive aggressive insults about her girth. She should break up with him, and than NOT jump into a relationship with anyone else for at least a year. She needs to learn to be happy and whole on her own. A happy and whole person doesn't put up with dicks.
Also, she doesn't need to join a gym, but she should find some form of exercise routine, and a healthy diet (by diet I mean, a permanent lifetime commitment to eating healthfully.) Both will help lift her spirits, and may even slim her down a bit. (While exercise does affect weight a little, diet is much more important in maintaining a healthy avoirdupois. Exercise should be viewed as a very important way to make oneself fit, but not a substitute for staying within a calorie range.)
At the same time, she desperately wants a man in her life to take care of her, no matter who dickish he is to her. She doesn't really love him, she's in love with having a boyfriend, who ever he my be. She doesn't feel complete without a man.
She pours on the guilt to keep him, and he reacts with passive aggressive insults about her girth. She should break up with him, and than NOT jump into a relationship with anyone else for at least a year. She needs to learn to be happy and whole on her own. A happy and whole person doesn't put up with dicks.
Also, she doesn't need to join a gym, but she should find some form of exercise routine, and a healthy diet (by diet I mean, a permanent lifetime commitment to eating healthfully.) Both will help lift her spirits, and may even slim her down a bit. (While exercise does affect weight a little, diet is much more important in maintaining a healthy avoirdupois. Exercise should be viewed as a very important way to make oneself fit, but not a substitute for staying within a calorie range.)
75
I also suffered a grad school to employment gap when the recession hit right after I got my diploma and the jobs that had been offered were rescinded because of hiring freezes. I also got depressed. The way I was able to deal with the problem was to go out and volunteer at several places I felt comfortable in (do what feels like it might be fun). I started slow, since my energy levels were low, with just a few hours a week. It got me out of the house, gave me friendly people to talk to (people like you when you volunteer), and most importantly though I did not realize it at the time, I got references. One of my volunteer places hired me as a substitute and then later as part-time staff. Even though I am still not making a living wage, I feel more confident and I have references and new friends.
As to the boyfriend, DTMFA unless it is him or the street... do you have somewhere to live as an alternative? He is draining your self confidence just when you need to build it up.
As to the boyfriend, DTMFA unless it is him or the street... do you have somewhere to live as an alternative? He is draining your self confidence just when you need to build it up.
76
DTMFA. Bringing up your weight AT ALL is a red flag.
Your boyfriend wants to make sure he can always put you in your place, and assure himself that he is the dominant partner in your relationship. Do you want that? I am guessing you do not. I don't know what you look like, maybe you are perfect for your height and weight but because we live in a society obsessed with looks, you don't feel comfortable in your skin. I have beautiful friends who never think they look good. But they do! Maybe you are the same, or maybe you have 20-50 pounds that you could stand to lose--it doesn't matter. Your boyfriend took you as is and two months in decided to start nagging you to lose weight? Even if you had gained 20 pounds in that time (possible, but you and boyfriend would both have had to been living a high fat/sedentary lifestyle), it would have been enough for him to say, hey, "we're" going to have to watch it, we are so happy we aren't taking care of ourselves. Once. He should have said it once. Not nagging at you with every argument.
I'm sure he knows that weight and appearance are a button he can push at you and you will flinch. He may love you, blah, blah, but he wants a partner he can control, he wants to be with someone where there is no question that he is the one that runs the show. If you want that, then stay with him, sure. But I don't think you would be writing to Dan Savage if you did.
Yeah, everything is great except this one thing. But this one thing is huge. And if you fix your weight, it will be your hair, or your family, or your pet, or your (someday) children.
If you can't DTMFA, then at least tell him you're not going to put up with it any longer, and telling yourself you aren't going to put up with it. It may take you a few months, but if he continues, then maybe you will have the courage to leave this "great" relationship behind you.
More...
Your boyfriend wants to make sure he can always put you in your place, and assure himself that he is the dominant partner in your relationship. Do you want that? I am guessing you do not. I don't know what you look like, maybe you are perfect for your height and weight but because we live in a society obsessed with looks, you don't feel comfortable in your skin. I have beautiful friends who never think they look good. But they do! Maybe you are the same, or maybe you have 20-50 pounds that you could stand to lose--it doesn't matter. Your boyfriend took you as is and two months in decided to start nagging you to lose weight? Even if you had gained 20 pounds in that time (possible, but you and boyfriend would both have had to been living a high fat/sedentary lifestyle), it would have been enough for him to say, hey, "we're" going to have to watch it, we are so happy we aren't taking care of ourselves. Once. He should have said it once. Not nagging at you with every argument.
I'm sure he knows that weight and appearance are a button he can push at you and you will flinch. He may love you, blah, blah, but he wants a partner he can control, he wants to be with someone where there is no question that he is the one that runs the show. If you want that, then stay with him, sure. But I don't think you would be writing to Dan Savage if you did.
Yeah, everything is great except this one thing. But this one thing is huge. And if you fix your weight, it will be your hair, or your family, or your pet, or your (someday) children.
If you can't DTMFA, then at least tell him you're not going to put up with it any longer, and telling yourself you aren't going to put up with it. It may take you a few months, but if he continues, then maybe you will have the courage to leave this "great" relationship behind you.
77
I thought the first letter writer was either guy or gal, no gender specified? Anyway, the boyfriend clearly knew who he was dating from day 1, if he started making weight comments only 2 months in. Unless something is medically awry, you simply don't gain enough weight in 2 months to deserve having it brought up even in a sweet and concerned way, and especially not when the disagreement is about something else. Why are we living together after 10 months anyway? Makes it really hard to extract yourself from the relationship, if that's necessary. I'd say to get help for the depression first. Try to solve that, and then maybe you can see clearly whether it's time to break up and move out, or whether this relationship is worth saving.
78
Emotional manipulation much o_O
"Boyfriend says he'll have to break up with me for his own mental health if I don't get psychological help... and go to the gym every day"
Unacceptable.
"Boyfriend says he'll have to break up with me for his own mental health if I don't get psychological help... and go to the gym every day"
Unacceptable.
79
It doesn't matter if the LW is a male or female, and it doesn't even matter that the comments are about weight. Anyone who hurts their partner (or friend, or child, or whomever) to shut down an argument is someone who can not be trusted. As time goes on, the LW's choices become either avoid bringing up issues that need to be addressed out of fear of hearing the hurtful words, or persist in trying to address issues in the face of ever-escalating verbal abuse. Just get out now. The boyfriend will always choose hurting and winning over actual resolution.
80
I would not stay with someone who did not care about their health. Nor would I tell them that it was their early death that bothered me, who needs the drama.
The BF should have said, "It's me, not you." and found someone healthy.
The BF should have said, "It's me, not you." and found someone healthy.
81
I think they're both messed up and that the relationship has gotten toxic. If he wants to breakup to preserve his mental health, then she's no perfect angel either. She might hurl a few insults his way before he breaks out the "concerned about your weight" card. For all we know he's on the defensive when it gets to that point.
I have an obese friend who is a "good girl", meaning she doesn't drink or have sex, etc for religious reasons. She is a 30 year old virgin, super uptight, really insecure and judgmental. She's made passive-agressive comments about every last one of my flaws if you want to talk about emotional abuse. I've only made a weight comment once and that was in self-defense after she pointed out a physical flaw on me.
I was there with kind words in junior high when boys were making fun of her weight. I was there in college when she couldn't let go of a "just-friend" and maybe try to consider guys that might like her back. I was there all throughout our 20's trying to encourage her to get out of the house and meet new people. I was there for her inviting her to go for walks with me when I would go to get exercise.
The whole friendship has gotten toxic, but for now I think all I can do is try to keep my distance until she finally takes those next steps. She's a late bloomer and I'm struggling with finding the right career path. I feel like we just bring eachother down and we both have a lot of problems, but in very different areas.
I'm moving on and don't want to be as close anymore. I need to be able to focus on my own issues without having to babysit the virgin. Plus, I don't know that I was really helping. I tried, but the truth is I don't know what she needs to hear. Maybe what she needs is tough love from someone who is capable of saying what she needs to hear or maybe she needs therapy. But I can't do this anymore. I have to take care of myself so that I don't fall apart.
Anyway, the point of my longwinded rant was to say that there are two sides to every story. Yes I made a weight comment once. But she's made so many more backhanded comments than I ever have. I'm know not perfect, but as the "good girl" she tends to think that she is perfect. She doesn't take constructive criticism very well, b/c in her mind she's the "good girl", so why should she ever change, right?
I agree with Dan they need to breakup. Just saying that the bf might not be a mustache-twirling villain and "FAT" probably isn't a helpless victim either. An obese person is just as capable of being an asshole as a thin person. I would be willing to bet that they both have a lot of issues that need to be resolved in therapy.
More...
I have an obese friend who is a "good girl", meaning she doesn't drink or have sex, etc for religious reasons. She is a 30 year old virgin, super uptight, really insecure and judgmental. She's made passive-agressive comments about every last one of my flaws if you want to talk about emotional abuse. I've only made a weight comment once and that was in self-defense after she pointed out a physical flaw on me.
I was there with kind words in junior high when boys were making fun of her weight. I was there in college when she couldn't let go of a "just-friend" and maybe try to consider guys that might like her back. I was there all throughout our 20's trying to encourage her to get out of the house and meet new people. I was there for her inviting her to go for walks with me when I would go to get exercise.
The whole friendship has gotten toxic, but for now I think all I can do is try to keep my distance until she finally takes those next steps. She's a late bloomer and I'm struggling with finding the right career path. I feel like we just bring eachother down and we both have a lot of problems, but in very different areas.
I'm moving on and don't want to be as close anymore. I need to be able to focus on my own issues without having to babysit the virgin. Plus, I don't know that I was really helping. I tried, but the truth is I don't know what she needs to hear. Maybe what she needs is tough love from someone who is capable of saying what she needs to hear or maybe she needs therapy. But I can't do this anymore. I have to take care of myself so that I don't fall apart.
Anyway, the point of my longwinded rant was to say that there are two sides to every story. Yes I made a weight comment once. But she's made so many more backhanded comments than I ever have. I'm know not perfect, but as the "good girl" she tends to think that she is perfect. She doesn't take constructive criticism very well, b/c in her mind she's the "good girl", so why should she ever change, right?
I agree with Dan they need to breakup. Just saying that the bf might not be a mustache-twirling villain and "FAT" probably isn't a helpless victim either. An obese person is just as capable of being an asshole as a thin person. I would be willing to bet that they both have a lot of issues that need to be resolved in therapy.
82
@81: Of course there are two sides to every story, but it wasn't the boyfriend writing in to Dan about his partner's hurtful behavior. If the boyfriend needs to get out, then he should get out, not hang around (for eight months?) threatening to leave unless his conditions are met.
83
The guy is a loser. He wants to make his partner feel like a loser so he can feel better. It isn't about weight, it's about appearance. Assuming the writer is female, it is a typical dick head shit head guy move. When all else fails, attack either appearance or weight issues. Hit the buttons of young woman insecurity and use it to shut her down.
He's a fucker who deserves a kick to the curb.
He's a fucker who deserves a kick to the curb.
84
Every time a letter begin with 'I have a super duper great partner and we are so incredibly happy' I know it will continue with 'but he/she is a horrible fucking evil person who destroys my life. What should I do? I don't want to leave'. Seriously. You don't even need to read anything more than the first paragraph to know it's a DTMFA.
85
@81 "I have to take care of myself so that I don't fall apart." - yes. Good for you for seeing the situation clearly, and good luck to you.
86
@80: But it's totally unfair of you to start dating someone 'unhealthy' then use your desire for a partner who cares about hir health as a way to chip away at that person's self esteem. You knew what you were signing up for, and if you date people who you think are unhealthy just to harangue them about it, you're an asshole too.
87
There's nothing wrong in having a preference for the appearance of your partner. Women have no right to crucify men for wanting women who aren't fat when women have a near-fetish for men who are tall.
The thing this guy did that was wrong was to get involved with this woman and then ask her to lose weight. If he wasn't into the way she looked, he shouldn't have gotten involved with her in the first place.
I had a somewhat-similar situation with the last woman I was really interested in. A month or so after we began dating, I could sense she wasn't that into me, physically, so I brought it up. She admitted that she had "difficulty" with me being the same height as her (5'10") -- obviously, asking me to gain height wasn't an option -- and eventually she broke things off (and I've little doubt that her "difficulty" with that played a large role.) If she needs to have guys taller than her in order to get turned on, then she shouldn't have gotten involved with me in the first place.
The thing this guy did that was wrong was to get involved with this woman and then ask her to lose weight. If he wasn't into the way she looked, he shouldn't have gotten involved with her in the first place.
I had a somewhat-similar situation with the last woman I was really interested in. A month or so after we began dating, I could sense she wasn't that into me, physically, so I brought it up. She admitted that she had "difficulty" with me being the same height as her (5'10") -- obviously, asking me to gain height wasn't an option -- and eventually she broke things off (and I've little doubt that her "difficulty" with that played a large role.) If she needs to have guys taller than her in order to get turned on, then she shouldn't have gotten involved with me in the first place.
88
Her boyfriend's a moron. I'm guessing she's the submissive in their D/s relationship, from the tone of the letter. If her boyfriend was a better dominant and wanted her to lose weight, he could make her lose weight, and do it without nagging, bringing it up in arguments and messing with her self esteem.
89
I had a D/s flavored relationship for a hot minute once. No sooner did we start sleeping together than he had me stand on the bathroom scale, and then told me he wanted me to lose 10 pounds. Note: I was a skinny bitch then. It's quite possible she's not overweight either, Dan. She's just not as skinny as he wants her to be. I wasn't thin enough for this guy; it felt terrible knowing he'd rather be banging a modelesque girl. That knowledge, along with his rather manipulative way of being dominant, was what made me kick him to the curb. She should do the same.
90
Don't just dump him, tell him his penis is too small, he's lousy in bed, and that his balls sag too much, and then dump him.
91
Please, FAT, get this creep out of your life. Run, don't walk, for the exit! The only unsightly lump of useless lard attached to you is your boyfriend and the only weight-loss regimen you should pursue is one that rids you of him! Please, get him out of your life and get some counseling to undo the harm to your mental health this unpleasant smegma has caused.
92
yup that is straight-up emotional abuse. And you know what else, FAT? He didn't even bother to tailor it to you, personally! Seriously, you could abuse any random person with shit about their weight. EVERYBODY KNOWS that shit stings. This is like the $20 Target gift card of abuse, it's guaranteed to work on any generic person. Probably he's waiting till he knows you better to find out what makes you tick and really dig is claws into you.
And it doesn't matter if you weigh a bajillion pounds: no amount of fat can *cause* someone else to be abusive. Fun fact: fat does not actually control other peoples' minds. That's your abusive boyfriend's specialty.
It's true what people are saying about exercise being excellent for treating some mental illnesses. So let's imagine the infinitesimally small chance that your bf is simply trying to get you to exercise your way out of depression and nag you to see a psych. It should be evident because he's offering to pay for, or at least chip in, on the price of both the gym and psych (or insurance). No? Well is he busily researching good psychologists in your area or low-income psych treatment programs? No? Hmm... is he enthusiastically volunteering to accompany you to your cardio activity of choice, so you can get healthy *together*? Reading up on how to be a supportive ally of someone who has depression? No? Is he changing his nagging approach to something that is helpful to you, rather than impossibly bad timing, over and over again? No? Well then, the very best case scenario is that he is dumber than a box of rocks, resulting in you feeling like shit about yourself. DUMP HIM.
And by the way: cut the abuser out of your life, things will gradually get better with the depression (probably-- it can't hurt, at the very least). Add in some appropriate treatment, and as the depression lifts you'll probably address your health on your own terms. That shit will work itself out, don't worry.
And to everyone who is so helpfully informing FAT that he or she should exercise to be healthy: F**CKING DUH. I guess I missed the part of the letter where FAT said he/she has been living in a remote cave forever, because seriously, FAT *has to know* that exercise is good for you if he/she lives in society. That's pretty patronizing.
More...
And it doesn't matter if you weigh a bajillion pounds: no amount of fat can *cause* someone else to be abusive. Fun fact: fat does not actually control other peoples' minds. That's your abusive boyfriend's specialty.
It's true what people are saying about exercise being excellent for treating some mental illnesses. So let's imagine the infinitesimally small chance that your bf is simply trying to get you to exercise your way out of depression and nag you to see a psych. It should be evident because he's offering to pay for, or at least chip in, on the price of both the gym and psych (or insurance). No? Well is he busily researching good psychologists in your area or low-income psych treatment programs? No? Hmm... is he enthusiastically volunteering to accompany you to your cardio activity of choice, so you can get healthy *together*? Reading up on how to be a supportive ally of someone who has depression? No? Is he changing his nagging approach to something that is helpful to you, rather than impossibly bad timing, over and over again? No? Well then, the very best case scenario is that he is dumber than a box of rocks, resulting in you feeling like shit about yourself. DUMP HIM.
And by the way: cut the abuser out of your life, things will gradually get better with the depression (probably-- it can't hurt, at the very least). Add in some appropriate treatment, and as the depression lifts you'll probably address your health on your own terms. That shit will work itself out, don't worry.
And to everyone who is so helpfully informing FAT that he or she should exercise to be healthy: F**CKING DUH. I guess I missed the part of the letter where FAT said he/she has been living in a remote cave forever, because seriously, FAT *has to know* that exercise is good for you if he/she lives in society. That's pretty patronizing.
93
@ #1 - Here's what he's been looking at as the ideal woman:
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/fa…
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/fa…
94
This is a very odd letter IMO. The LW starts off with a shopping list of all the admirable qualities of her bf and how they mesh just perfectly, 'cuz it sounds as if she's really ready to get married already. After all, wow, how can she go wrong with matching high libido, kinky, sensitive, romantic, yadda-yadda-yadda? BTW, I don't see any dichotomy between "intellectual" (which I think translates into "we've both gone to grad school") and "religious commitment" (which might mean "we're both agnostic but attend the local Unitarian church from time to time"). Besides, how could she (that's the vibe I get) possibly find anyone better. They have so many things in common. ::rolls eyes::
Just one thing that's not. The bf is no doubt a prick.
Actually, the more I ponder about this letter, I think the bf is doing a passive-aggressive number on her. He's already told her what the outcome will be. He's going to break up with her. I don't think the weight has anything to do with it, but is a convenient excuse, especially after only a couple of months. After all, she just got through grad school, probably had student loans she's deferring, doesn't have a job, is living with him and he's gotten tired of her, especially if she thinks that the next step is marriage of two people who were just-made-for-each-other. ::makes a retching sound:: But, if she doesn't have any money, then how will she get psychological help or afford to go to a gym every day. He's set the conditions so high that it's quite likely she wouldn't be able to meet them anyway.
LW, you may say you're so in love with your bf, but he isn't in love with you. He probably doesn't want to kick you out when you're presumably without resources. But bringing up one of your insecurities constantly may be enough to get you to move out – he hopes. And he's confusing you by sugar-coating them with sweetness and a concerned air.
As you have all day to yourself (I presume, other than job hunting), it's time for you to find a way to leave him. Do you have any relatives who would allow you to live with them without paying rent or board, even in exchange for housework or childcare. A lot of working couples are super-stressed and would welcome the help.
Don't bother trying to change (your weight) for him. Just focus on getting out. And think about the fact that, so far, everyone you've told the story to has advised you to break up with him. Can it be that their perception is right and yours is not because of those rose-coloured glasses of twu wuv? I'm sorry if I come off sounding harsh. But you have (at least) a Master's degree. Use the reasoning skills you already have. And good luck with getting back on your feet and headed in a new direction towards a brighter future.
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Just one thing that's not. The bf is no doubt a prick.
Boyfriend says he'll have to break up with me for his own mental health if I don't get psychological help...and go to the gym every day.The bf is taking advantage of the LW's insecurities. Because she's got a boatload of them which may or may not have been provoked by the stress arising out of the financial commitment of finishing grad school and finding a job. After all, Dan, you're not the first person she's approached with her problem.
Everyone who hears this thinks I should break up with him, but I'm so in love with him that I've convinced myself that this is harder for him than it is for me.All I can say is that any critical thinking ability she had to finish grad school has gone bye-bye. She's broadcasting her bf's message (her weight hurts him) in the same way that the religious fundamentalist nutbars claim that you're hurting their right to hate and discriminate. Yeah, makes such as much (non)sense. Also, her submissive tendencies (if they've been confined until now to the bedroom) are bleeding over into RL. His views carry far more weight than hers. She's at the top of an extremely slippery slope.
Actually, the more I ponder about this letter, I think the bf is doing a passive-aggressive number on her. He's already told her what the outcome will be. He's going to break up with her. I don't think the weight has anything to do with it, but is a convenient excuse, especially after only a couple of months. After all, she just got through grad school, probably had student loans she's deferring, doesn't have a job, is living with him and he's gotten tired of her, especially if she thinks that the next step is marriage of two people who were just-made-for-each-other. ::makes a retching sound:: But, if she doesn't have any money, then how will she get psychological help or afford to go to a gym every day. He's set the conditions so high that it's quite likely she wouldn't be able to meet them anyway.
LW, you may say you're so in love with your bf, but he isn't in love with you. He probably doesn't want to kick you out when you're presumably without resources. But bringing up one of your insecurities constantly may be enough to get you to move out – he hopes. And he's confusing you by sugar-coating them with sweetness and a concerned air.
As you have all day to yourself (I presume, other than job hunting), it's time for you to find a way to leave him. Do you have any relatives who would allow you to live with them without paying rent or board, even in exchange for housework or childcare. A lot of working couples are super-stressed and would welcome the help.
Don't bother trying to change (your weight) for him. Just focus on getting out. And think about the fact that, so far, everyone you've told the story to has advised you to break up with him. Can it be that their perception is right and yours is not because of those rose-coloured glasses of twu wuv? I'm sorry if I come off sounding harsh. But you have (at least) a Master's degree. Use the reasoning skills you already have. And good luck with getting back on your feet and headed in a new direction towards a brighter future.
95
@94: "Boyfriend says he'll have to break up with me for his own mental health if I don't get psychological help...and go to the gym every day."
Right. The former could possibly be understandable, I've been in a a situation where that would have been the best option. The latter, and conflating it with the former as just as important proves the BF to be a manipulative shithead.
Right. The former could possibly be understandable, I've been in a a situation where that would have been the best option. The latter, and conflating it with the former as just as important proves the BF to be a manipulative shithead.
96
Wait...he'll have to break up with you for his own mental health if you don't go to the gym every day? So basically, the FAT will drive him to MADNESS?!
I'd be depressed, too, if I was sleeping with someone who had me confused with a Lovecraftian horror. And also you are the least of his psychological issues, which are many and vast.
I'd be depressed, too, if I was sleeping with someone who had me confused with a Lovecraftian horror. And also you are the least of his psychological issues, which are many and vast.
97
DTMFA and then take up smoking. Problem solved, everyone's happy! Ciggies - guaranteed weight loss (eventually). If it doesn't work, smoke more. American Spirits are the politically correct choice, Reynold's America own's them... (as well as Camel). Sigh. shopping for the right ciggie is so taxing when trying to be politically correct!
98
Totally tangental, and I should have asked this earlier on in the thread before it fell off the main page. But...
Let's say that you do have a partner that you're in love with and are deeply committed to. And let's say that that partner has a farly serious, correctable health-related problem that they're ignoring or in denial of. What is the proper, correct way to bring that up?
And yes, I do consider obesity *in most cases* to be both serious and correctable. Obesity is directly casual to a vast range of really serious health issues, and in most cases it's due mainly to overeating and under-exercising, both of which are correctable via behavior modification over time.
So while the original poster's boyfriend is obviously being a douchnozzle about this, there does come a point in a relationship where one partner has both a right and a responsibility to say "I love you, and I want to live a long, healthy life with you, so you need to address this, and I will give you whatever support and assistance you need along the way". But, particularly with weight issues, but with others such as substance abuse or depression it's generally considered an absolute faux pas to ever bring it up. So Dan/Slog, how would you start and maintain that conversation, tactfully & effectively?
Let's say that you do have a partner that you're in love with and are deeply committed to. And let's say that that partner has a farly serious, correctable health-related problem that they're ignoring or in denial of. What is the proper, correct way to bring that up?
And yes, I do consider obesity *in most cases* to be both serious and correctable. Obesity is directly casual to a vast range of really serious health issues, and in most cases it's due mainly to overeating and under-exercising, both of which are correctable via behavior modification over time.
So while the original poster's boyfriend is obviously being a douchnozzle about this, there does come a point in a relationship where one partner has both a right and a responsibility to say "I love you, and I want to live a long, healthy life with you, so you need to address this, and I will give you whatever support and assistance you need along the way". But, particularly with weight issues, but with others such as substance abuse or depression it's generally considered an absolute faux pas to ever bring it up. So Dan/Slog, how would you start and maintain that conversation, tactfully & effectively?
99
@98, educate yourself. Current studies show that if you have gained & lost a lot of weight in your life, it will be much harder for you to keep pounds off in the future. The NYT just ran an article on this: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/magazi…
Of course, at any weight, one can be healthy or less healthy, due to exercise, avoiding smoking, etc.
Also, at any weight, you may get run over by a car the next day. So if you love your partner, make sure to enjoy each day together, try to live well together, exercise together, cook together, have great sex together...
I've learned that you can't change other people. (It follows that you'll have to come to your own conclusion about this...) You can propose fun, healthy activities to share together, but if the other person has serious issues, then he or she has to be the one to want the change and commit to the change. And even then, the change may not happen. That's life. If your commitment to the other person is dependent on them changing their ways, then leave now and don't look back.
Of course, at any weight, one can be healthy or less healthy, due to exercise, avoiding smoking, etc.
Also, at any weight, you may get run over by a car the next day. So if you love your partner, make sure to enjoy each day together, try to live well together, exercise together, cook together, have great sex together...
I've learned that you can't change other people. (It follows that you'll have to come to your own conclusion about this...) You can propose fun, healthy activities to share together, but if the other person has serious issues, then he or she has to be the one to want the change and commit to the change. And even then, the change may not happen. That's life. If your commitment to the other person is dependent on them changing their ways, then leave now and don't look back.
100
@98: "Let's say that you do have a partner that you're in love with and are deeply committed to. And let's say that that partner has a farly serious, correctable health-related problem that they're ignoring or in denial of. What is the proper, correct way to bring that up?"
Take everything her boyfriend did, and do the exact opposite.
Take everything her boyfriend did, and do the exact opposite.
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