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News & ArtsMonday, January 16, 2012
Religion Christian Haters
Posted by Charles Mudede on Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 8:42 AM
The story:
Jessica Ahlquist may have won her legal battle to remove an unconstitutional prayer banner from her public school, but that doesn’t mean she can finally resume her everyday life. No, now she’s receiving horrible comments from fellow classmates, community members, and other angry Christians who are very, very offended that their religion no longer has the special status to be forced upon others. There’s the general anti-atheist remarks:
My favorite Christian responses to this victory for reason:
“May that little, evil athiest teenage girl and that judge BURN IN HELL!”Are these people in kindergarten or something? They actually believe there's a place in the universe where dead human apes (apes who did not believe in God or did bad things while alive) are punished forever?“I hope there’s lots of banners in hell when your rotting in there you atheist fuck #TeamJesus”
“We can make so many jokes about this dumb bitch, but who cares #thatbitchisgointohell and Satan is gonna rape her.”
Then again, how can I have a problem with a person who is willing to entirely leave the punishment of this "evil athiest" to hell, to judgement day, to his/her God's supernatural system of justice? I only have a problem with those who want to be here for God, to be His soldier, messenger, or some such stupid thing.
1
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Mohandas Gandhi
Mohandas Gandhi
2
You must remember that the Christian faith is one of peace. These Christian Jihadists are just a fringe twisting a peaceful religion for their own purposes. I fail to see any distinction betweeb the them and us when it comes to religion.
3
Oh, quit picking on the Christians and their signs, you atheists. If we didn't have churches devoted to the worship of a loving though judgmental God, where would all the ignorant haters congregate? Denny’s?
4
Here's an idea: Make the school put up a new banner to replace the old one, only with a choice selection of some of the more execrable quotes uttered by these morons, so that the students would have to see it every single school day. Maybe THEN, they'd begin to understand the level of viciousness to which they've descended, and perhaps even contemplate the tremendous harm their shameful speech can engender.
5
I went to Catholic schools K through 12. I liked them as in NYC they were the poor man's private school (as the brothers and nuns were paid like $5 a week) and I actually enjoyed the religious teaching because I escaped the Baltimore Catechism and got all the Vatican II Jesus as a Hippie style instruction.
If these people want religious immersion, pony up and go to a private religious school...try getting some of their followers to work for free for example to bring costs down.
If these people want religious immersion, pony up and go to a private religious school...try getting some of their followers to work for free for example to bring costs down.
6
Love Thy Neighbor? Fat chance. Hooray for Jessica! Christians can't be trusted to practice what they preach. In fact, just the opposite. They can be expected to be evil pricks.
8
It would be nice if they actually left the punishment up to God's system of judgement, but I've yet to encounter a Christian who actually turns the other cheek.
9
Boo on the Xtianists.
In other developments... Charles calling people out for simple childlike ideas (kindergarten) is just a tad ironic.
In other developments... Charles calling people out for simple childlike ideas (kindergarten) is just a tad ironic.
12
Semantics, my dear. Even the Supreme Court has recognized that you can't have one without the other.
13
Really? No comment about the nasty little thing claiming the atheist girl was "that one white girl who fucks all the blacks" and "is worse than the blacks?"
Also, Christians? Either come out as officially against the sorts of things that would make your mascot cry or STFU about "Christian hatred" because at this point, you're bringing it on yourselves by being silent about (and therefore, supporting) things like this.
Also, Christians? Either come out as officially against the sorts of things that would make your mascot cry or STFU about "Christian hatred" because at this point, you're bringing it on yourselves by being silent about (and therefore, supporting) things like this.
14
@11, constitutionally, it's both. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" has long been held to mean that the govenment may neither endorse nor ban a religious practice. Kids who are forced by law to be in a state run school shouldn't then be forced by said state run school to endure religious propaganda while there, whether that propaganda comes in the form of mandatory classroom prayer or a "Jebus loves me" banner.
15
@11: Except in government-run institutions, such as schools. Take your religion and your precious signs elsewhere, thanks.
16
I'm reposting the comment @14 because it's wasted under that cut.
"@11, constitutionally, it's both. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" has long been held to mean that the govenment may neither endorse nor ban a religious practice. Kids who are forced by law to be in a state run school shouldn't then be forced by said state run school to endure religious propaganda while there, whether that propaganda comes in the form of mandatory classroom prayer or a "Jebus loves me" banner."
"@11, constitutionally, it's both. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" has long been held to mean that the govenment may neither endorse nor ban a religious practice. Kids who are forced by law to be in a state run school shouldn't then be forced by said state run school to endure religious propaganda while there, whether that propaganda comes in the form of mandatory classroom prayer or a "Jebus loves me" banner."
17
The question really comes down to accommodating other people’s religion and the comfort, spirituality, community and charity other people derive from it. Seeing such a banner, a fair minded agnostic, atheist, or someone of a different religion would simply not be bothered by it. That said, sexual minorities and others have suffered a lot from Christianity. Nevertheless, we’re all walking around with “In God we Trust” in our purses and wallets. Life is too short.
19
Hey, is this the same Charles who was picking on Richard Dawkins a couple of weeks ago because he's so adamantly anti-religion?
Charles - can you see why some of us atheists are a bit vocal about these fuckwit christards?
Charles - can you see why some of us atheists are a bit vocal about these fuckwit christards?
21
@17 No, the question does not come down to accommodating other peoples' idiocy/religion, accomdating other peoples' idiocy/religon is not the law, keeping the government from endorsing a religion is. Don't pretend you know what a reasonable agnostic or atheist would think, Phoebe, because you clearly don't know how they think. Reasonable agnostics and atheists recognize the importance of protecting and enforcing the 1st Amendment, it's one of our best ways of trying to keep the country from sliding into theocracy. And oh yeah, we're gonna get your god off our money too.
22
Stop the Presses!!!! Crack journalist Chuck Mudede has found a few Christians writing things they shouldn't!!!! Turn to page 4 for Chucky Boys discovery of snow on the ground this morning!!!! On page 4 his courageous expose on the sun rising this morning!!!!!
Seriously, the fact that parents pay good money for their kids to be taught by this sink of ignorance and bigotry and hatred of America is amazing to me. Oh, wait.... at most universitities and colleges anti Christian bigotry, ignorance of your professed subject and hatred of America are job qualifications. I keep forgetting that.
However, it's absolutely true that no Christian should practice hate. It's more true that the state of their own soul is better displayed by wishing a child afflicted with evangelical atheist parents who care more about petty political points than the welfare of their child to be damned than that of the child.
Yes, it's true that a school shouldn't endorse any religion, including that most rabidly intolerant one of atheism. My freedom to practice Christianity rests on your freedom to be bigoted about it, or to practice Buddhism or worship of the Raven or some other totemic divinity.
But if you sue your school for something the vast majority of your fellow students like, you're going to face hostility or at least ostracism. If you attack the faith that sustains the majority of your fellow citizens, you shouldn't be surprised that you're not liked.
Love the childish 'Jebus' thing by the way. Knowing by such grade school silliness that those who hate Christianity with such a blind bigoted passion aren't to be taken seriously is so comforting. Kind of like a nice cup of hot chocolate by the fire on this beautiful snowy day.
More...
Seriously, the fact that parents pay good money for their kids to be taught by this sink of ignorance and bigotry and hatred of America is amazing to me. Oh, wait.... at most universitities and colleges anti Christian bigotry, ignorance of your professed subject and hatred of America are job qualifications. I keep forgetting that.
However, it's absolutely true that no Christian should practice hate. It's more true that the state of their own soul is better displayed by wishing a child afflicted with evangelical atheist parents who care more about petty political points than the welfare of their child to be damned than that of the child.
Yes, it's true that a school shouldn't endorse any religion, including that most rabidly intolerant one of atheism. My freedom to practice Christianity rests on your freedom to be bigoted about it, or to practice Buddhism or worship of the Raven or some other totemic divinity.
But if you sue your school for something the vast majority of your fellow students like, you're going to face hostility or at least ostracism. If you attack the faith that sustains the majority of your fellow citizens, you shouldn't be surprised that you're not liked.
Love the childish 'Jebus' thing by the way. Knowing by such grade school silliness that those who hate Christianity with such a blind bigoted passion aren't to be taken seriously is so comforting. Kind of like a nice cup of hot chocolate by the fire on this beautiful snowy day.
23
@21
"And oh yeah, we're gonna get your god off our money too."
Oh please, please carry on your futile attacks on what the majority of this nation believes. The greatest hope for our future is for the left to reveal itself honestly in their hatred of America and what she stands for.
FYI- There are no 'reasonable' atheists. To stand by the David or gaze at The Thinker and ascribe them to erosion by wind and water makes about as much sense as regarding the magnificent harmonious beauty of the created world and deny a creator.
"And oh yeah, we're gonna get your god off our money too."
Oh please, please carry on your futile attacks on what the majority of this nation believes. The greatest hope for our future is for the left to reveal itself honestly in their hatred of America and what she stands for.
FYI- There are no 'reasonable' atheists. To stand by the David or gaze at The Thinker and ascribe them to erosion by wind and water makes about as much sense as regarding the magnificent harmonious beauty of the created world and deny a creator.
24
@21: And don't pretend you can read people's minds. I was raised Episcopalian and sometimes attend services but consider myself an agnostic. But if you wish to consider as an unreasonable agnostic, you go right ahead dearie.
25
Phoebe, no one really cares what you believe or what is in your mind. The point is that a service (in this case a public school) provided by the government of ALL of us should not advertise or in any way support the personal religious belief of SOME of us. That's the real meaning of the "establishment clause".
26
"But if you sue your school for something the vast majority of your fellow students like, you're going to face hostility or at least ostracism. If you attack the faith that sustains the majority of your fellow citizens, you shouldn't be surprised that you're not liked." -Seattleblues
i don't think she's surprised. i know i'm not. but your reasoning plainly illustrates the ignorant "blame the victim" culture that allows bullying to continue in public schools throughout the nation.
i don't think she's surprised. i know i'm not. but your reasoning plainly illustrates the ignorant "blame the victim" culture that allows bullying to continue in public schools throughout the nation.
27
@24 Wow, an agnostic that doesn't realize the importance of enforcing the 1st Amendment, that doesn't realize if we don't stand up and fight for our hard-won rights, then they go away. It's hard to reason with a fool.
Any words for the Christians that hurled such hate at Jessica for committing the crime of standing up for her constitutional rights? For how they've managed to accommodate Jessica's comfort and community? Is it reasonable to hurl threats at someone for what she did, Phoebe? Can you even realize which party was actually acting unreasonable, here?
Any words for the Christians that hurled such hate at Jessica for committing the crime of standing up for her constitutional rights? For how they've managed to accommodate Jessica's comfort and community? Is it reasonable to hurl threats at someone for what she did, Phoebe? Can you even realize which party was actually acting unreasonable, here?
28
@26
If by 'blame the victim' you mean expect that folks understand how their behavior is likely to be perceived and accept that, then yes. I do expect that.
I don't think this young woman was wrong about the lawsuit, though clearly she is about her theology. A clear line was crossed which shouldn't have been. She has the right to her fanatical atheism, just as the majority of us have a right to our Christianity or whatever we believe.
I don't think the comments cited (and I don't trust the Stranger to be honest about this matter or any other, so I'm accepting these for the sake of argument) represent Christianity or even basic humanity. But I wrote that already.
But for her to behave the way she did and expect her classmates and others to cheer her for it is really very stupid. As any married man knows, being right is no gaurantee of being happy. Sometimes you just cede the point for the sake of a peaceful life. Or if you don't, the consequences are on your head.
Finally, the Stranger shedding crocodile tears over the mean, mean blog or twitter comments is a bit rich. This is hardly a bastion of civil discourse with those whose politics you don't agree with.
If by 'blame the victim' you mean expect that folks understand how their behavior is likely to be perceived and accept that, then yes. I do expect that.
I don't think this young woman was wrong about the lawsuit, though clearly she is about her theology. A clear line was crossed which shouldn't have been. She has the right to her fanatical atheism, just as the majority of us have a right to our Christianity or whatever we believe.
I don't think the comments cited (and I don't trust the Stranger to be honest about this matter or any other, so I'm accepting these for the sake of argument) represent Christianity or even basic humanity. But I wrote that already.
But for her to behave the way she did and expect her classmates and others to cheer her for it is really very stupid. As any married man knows, being right is no gaurantee of being happy. Sometimes you just cede the point for the sake of a peaceful life. Or if you don't, the consequences are on your head.
Finally, the Stranger shedding crocodile tears over the mean, mean blog or twitter comments is a bit rich. This is hardly a bastion of civil discourse with those whose politics you don't agree with.
29
The people who believe that eternal torment is the sentence that awaits all who do not share their beliefs, and hold this up as evidence of a just and loving god, do not love their neighbor as themselves. Even the nice ones who smile in your face and do good things. It's an inherently hostile doctrine.
The kids making these rude comments to this girl are just guilty of being honest about what they truly believe.
The kids making these rude comments to this girl are just guilty of being honest about what they truly believe.
30
Seattleblues - I think the mistake in calling atheism a religion is not, as atheists would tell you, that non-belief isn't equivalent to belief; we can grant arguendo that there's a presuppositional aspect to both. But to my mind, atheism is not a religion for the same reason that your theism isn't a religion, that my pantheism isn't a religion. That we have taken the values and practices of Christianity, in your case, or Buddhism in mine, is where we move from simply forming an epistemic foundation via observation and deductive/inductive reasoning to building a body of rules and practices, a body of beliefs. To merely look out upon the world and see order, as you do, and thus to infer a deity, or to see randomness, chaos, coincidence, as the atheist does (or, to be fair, as I do, though I take it to mean something other than the atheist does) is not religion.
Nor, I should point out, does it have much of anything to do with reason or logic (or any lack thereof). It is neither logical nor illogical to look at the world and see evidence of a creator, or to look at the world and see no such evidence. That you feel as comfortable as you do insisting that there are no rational atheists says more about your self-regard than about the evidence at hand or your capacity to make anything of it.
And yes, those who, in the name of doing what is right, go against the grain of mainstream thought should be prepared for the reaction that ensues. And any of us, anywhere, are just as welcome to point out that this reaction constitutes a social problem in itself.
Nor, I should point out, does it have much of anything to do with reason or logic (or any lack thereof). It is neither logical nor illogical to look at the world and see evidence of a creator, or to look at the world and see no such evidence. That you feel as comfortable as you do insisting that there are no rational atheists says more about your self-regard than about the evidence at hand or your capacity to make anything of it.
And yes, those who, in the name of doing what is right, go against the grain of mainstream thought should be prepared for the reaction that ensues. And any of us, anywhere, are just as welcome to point out that this reaction constitutes a social problem in itself.
31
@28: If you'll pardon the reductio ad hitlerum, what would you say to a man in 1939 Germany who was publicly Jewish? Would it be his fault for doing something he knew would offend the vast majority of society?
Also, please explain how the young lady in question is "clearly...[wrong] about her theology". What is so theologically problematic about her beliefs? (Ascribing to the God of Israel the role of a watchmaker or a sculptor? Now THAT's bad theology. More on that later.)
@23: Maybe God doesn't want to be on the money, hm? Teddy Roosevelt had that opinion. And what about Jesus kicking the money-changers out of the temple?
Also, nothing in the physical world necessitates any sort of guiding force. The natural world is nothing like a statue. A statue clearly was made, because there is no model of natural causes that could have resulted in its appearance. I defy you to name one aspect of the natural world that science cannot explain the origin of.
There is no evidence either way; it is, scientifically speaking, equally valid to believe that God does or does not exist, but neither can be proven.
Also, please explain how the young lady in question is "clearly...[wrong] about her theology". What is so theologically problematic about her beliefs? (Ascribing to the God of Israel the role of a watchmaker or a sculptor? Now THAT's bad theology. More on that later.)
@23: Maybe God doesn't want to be on the money, hm? Teddy Roosevelt had that opinion. And what about Jesus kicking the money-changers out of the temple?
Also, nothing in the physical world necessitates any sort of guiding force. The natural world is nothing like a statue. A statue clearly was made, because there is no model of natural causes that could have resulted in its appearance. I defy you to name one aspect of the natural world that science cannot explain the origin of.
There is no evidence either way; it is, scientifically speaking, equally valid to believe that God does or does not exist, but neither can be proven.
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