Slog
News & ArtsFriday, January 13, 2012
Homo Catholic Leaders Lash Out at Gay-Marriage Bill, but Do Seattle's Liberal Catholics Have the Courage to Lash Back?
Posted by Dominic Holden on Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 9:48 PM
Saying that the “continuation of the human race” hangs in the balance and that “bringing to life the next generation" requires denying equal rights to gay couples, four Catholic bishops in Washington State issued a proclamation today that declares a campaign to stop a same-sex marriage bill on Olympia. Among them was Seattle Archbishop J. Peter Sartain.
The open letter to their flocks, which notes that current law "prohibits marriage to close-blood relations," goes on to argue that "marriage is related to bringing children into the world."
Not only does the decree reveal Seattle's Catholic leadership as illogical bigots—after all, they're not lobbying against sterile men from marrying—it goes on to call for lobbying elected officials. They ask followers "to contact your own state senator and your two state representatives to request that they defend the current legal definition of marriage as a union between a man and a woman." (It bears mentioning that the Archdiocese of Seattle is a nonprofit charitable organization with strict rules on activity that affect policy.) But this isn't about procreation—it's about the church's well-worn crusade again gay rights.
Well, Seattle Catholics?
You're always braying about how you don't want to be lumped in with the hate-mongering, boy-fucking Vatican, right? That's what we keep hearing. If you want to convince us that you repudiate bigotry, show us. Show that divisiveness, while it may be the calling of Rome, is not the calling of your faith. Want us to believe your religion is one of inclusiveness, of equal rights? Then join together to reject this. This is the test of our faith in you. Sorry if the growing pains of adolescence are awkward, but none of you kicking back against this hatred from your church compares to the pain that loving gay families experience as they to fight for equal recognition under the law. Joel Connelly at the Seattlepi.com has a piece on the letter. He's a progressive Catholic. I'm sure he'll call this out soon. Right?
3
So a "eunuch for the kingdom" [Matt 19:12] wants to tell secular society all about the dangers of reproductive armaggedon?? Celibacy much?
Fair enough: sacramental marriage for Catholics; civil marriage for everyone else.
oh - and no civil divorce for Catholics by civil law.
oh - and no abortions for Catholics by civil law.
oh - and no contraception for Catholics by civil law.
(and a religious test at Starbucks? ya know - against caffeinating the Mormons)
So a "eunuch for the kingdom" [Matt 19:12] wants to tell secular society all about the dangers of reproductive armaggedon?? Celibacy much?
Fair enough: sacramental marriage for Catholics; civil marriage for everyone else.
oh - and no civil divorce for Catholics by civil law.
oh - and no abortions for Catholics by civil law.
oh - and no contraception for Catholics by civil law.
(and a religious test at Starbucks? ya know - against caffeinating the Mormons)
4
Many Catholics know this is guidance but not marching orders. Thankfully. Washington State has some of the most enlightened catholic congregations in the country. I think we're good. The Governor and Senator Pflug are catholic, right? And Charlene Strong as well, I think?
Shame on church fathers for trying to push their agenda, though. But what did you expect?
Shame on church fathers for trying to push their agenda, though. But what did you expect?
5
Nonprofits can lobby about issues without endangering their IRS status. They just can't lobby for their members to vote for/against specific candidates.
I'm not sure why you're even mildly surprised the Catholic bishops have done this. They've done it for years now regarding every issue that's against their hetero(ha)doxy.
I'm not sure why you're even mildly surprised the Catholic bishops have done this. They've done it for years now regarding every issue that's against their hetero(ha)doxy.
6
I have created a counter argument to the Church's unbridled support of population growth based on the words of Genesis, and the concept of dominion:
http://yrihf.com/viewtopic.php?t=856&hig…
http://yrihf.com/viewtopic.php?t=856&hig…
8
The letter concludes with the statement asking "all to join in praying with us for married couples and families and to do everything possible to support them."
As a married, practicing Catholic I want it to be known that I will be praying for for all of my gay friends, family members and couples that I know. I hope that they too will soon have the right to get married. I will do everything possible to support them.
Tim Leary.
As a married, practicing Catholic I want it to be known that I will be praying for for all of my gay friends, family members and couples that I know. I hope that they too will soon have the right to get married. I will do everything possible to support them.
Tim Leary.
9
Disappointing, considering the legacy left by Archbishop Hunthausen on civil rights and anti-nuclear issues. He's still alive in Montana, would be interesting to hear his take on this issue.
11
I agree with @9. I remember Archbishop Hunthausen, who was a strong advocate for civil rights issues of all kinds. I would be very surprised if he made a hateful statement like this. But then he often earned the ire of the Pope for his overly liberal stances. He always seemed like one of the few good eggs in the Catholic church. His influence around here is missed.
12
I wish four Catholic bishops, who have bought into Christian mythology in a big way, would just stick to their job of brainwashing the gullible and shut the fuck up about governmental matters.
Go put on your pretty red dresses, stick a butt plug up your asses, and leave the rest of us rational folk alone.
Go put on your pretty red dresses, stick a butt plug up your asses, and leave the rest of us rational folk alone.
13
Dear The Stranger,
Kudos on the scoring thingy at the top of Slog that's keeping track of how our State senators are voting.
Perhaps you could also add a link to the legislature's 'find your representative' page too. That'd be cool.
Kudos on the scoring thingy at the top of Slog that's keeping track of how our State senators are voting.
Perhaps you could also add a link to the legislature's 'find your representative' page too. That'd be cool.
14
How does the marriage of same-sex couples destroy humanity, while a priviledge class of (allegedly) celibate men does not?
15
Everyone knows that the Catholic Church would never dare to tell the state that it needed the church's permission, vis-a-vis an annulment, to allow divorced people to re-marry. Why? Because the church knows it would never get away with that kind of meddling interference. And yet, it is exactly that same kind of interfering that the Catholic Church is engaging in now. All Washingtonians should demand that the tax-exempt status of the Archdiocese be immediately revoked.
16
Action Slacks and Reverse Polarity, When I was growing up, the bishop of Des Moines was quite liberal - always getting arrested at the Strategic Air Command, or blocking trains carrying weapons, or joining labor strikes. I credit most of my leftist tendencies to the diocese of Des Moines, the Jesuits at Creighton (Papa Vel-DuRay's Alma Mater), our Benedictine Parish Priest (who opened our empty convent to Vietamese refugees and the playground to the Native Americans who were in town for trials related to the Wounded Knee conflict) and the Catholic Workers Movement (Mother Vel-DuRay's pet charity)
Unfortunately, you don't see much of that anymore. The bishop is a twerp, and the Parish Priest is a mealy-mouthed milquetoast. They never talk politics from the pulpit - Mother Vel-DuRay wouldn't stand for it, and she's a consistent tither - but they don't do much for social justice, either.
Unfortunately, you don't see much of that anymore. The bishop is a twerp, and the Parish Priest is a mealy-mouthed milquetoast. They never talk politics from the pulpit - Mother Vel-DuRay wouldn't stand for it, and she's a consistent tither - but they don't do much for social justice, either.
17
@16: The reason for the trend away from Catholic liberalism is that the decks were stacked with conservative bishop after conservative bishop during the long pontificate of John Paul II, a trend that continues under the present pope. Even with the deaths of the entire College of Cardinals that trend will never be reversed, until perhaps the next millennium.
18
If dissenting Washington Catholics were truly serious about "lashing back," as Holden suggests, their most powerful weapon is of course the power of the purse.
Might I suggest a campaign to put note cards in the collection plates of all Catholic churches in Washington state which say, "I am withholding my usual pledge of $___ because of the church's meddling interference in the affairs of the state pertaining to gay marriage." That would quickly get the message across in the way nothing else would.
Your move, Catholics......
Might I suggest a campaign to put note cards in the collection plates of all Catholic churches in Washington state which say, "I am withholding my usual pledge of $___ because of the church's meddling interference in the affairs of the state pertaining to gay marriage." That would quickly get the message across in the way nothing else would.
Your move, Catholics......
19
Dom, you should write about your (limited) relationship with the Catholic Church; like for example who was the parishioner that pointed out this Friday evening news from the bishops. I don't think he'd mind...
Dan's has a relationship with his church as well, doesn't he? I mean, I know he's critical and doesn't attend these days, but like for a lot of American Catholics, there is some history, isn't there? As a complete "free thinker" with no relationship to the (conflicted) Catholic Church, I find the topic fascinating. Oh, and thanks for striking the aside about incest, I thought that was a bit off.
Dan's has a relationship with his church as well, doesn't he? I mean, I know he's critical and doesn't attend these days, but like for a lot of American Catholics, there is some history, isn't there? As a complete "free thinker" with no relationship to the (conflicted) Catholic Church, I find the topic fascinating. Oh, and thanks for striking the aside about incest, I thought that was a bit off.
20
@17... you are 100% correct. Back in the 60s and 70s, a large swath of bishops and cardinals were very liberal... and sought to move the church in that direction. JPII and Pope Palpatine have pretty much eliminated all dissenters and progressives from those ranks. :(
21
The very least Washington Catholics who support Civil Marriage Equality can do is stand facing away from the priest with their heads bowed in silent protest and prayer as this unjust and hurtful letter is read.
Oh, and please sit up the front so everyone else at mass can see you.
For extra credit, tear your empty offering envelope in half and drop it in the collection plate.
Oh, and please sit up the front so everyone else at mass can see you.
For extra credit, tear your empty offering envelope in half and drop it in the collection plate.
23
Read an interesting and once again very revealing article today about Benedictīs boys club and its not very Christ-like treatment of internal critics. It tells the ongoing story of former Vatican-Darling and fundamental star-theologian David Berger and his fall from grace after his coming-out in April 2010. Unfortunately for many here, I guess, the article is in German, but perhaps Google translator can help. Itīs worth reading:
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/leben/kirche-…
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/leben/kirche-…
24
@22 giantladtsquirrels. Actually Connelly announced his conversion from Episcopalian to Catholic a year or two ago in one of his columns. St. Marks had become to liberal for him and the music wasn't as good as it used to be. The last few years he has become a very vocal anti-choice advocate. He gins up some invective every 6 to 8 weeks about NARAL and PP.
25
Of course!
Why support committed relationships that know love under egregiously odds?
And WHY use orphanages as a way to find loving homes for lonely and abandoned little children, when those SAME orphanages and children can be more efficiently used as political hostages by the Vatican PR Machine (the one that gave us too much *Inquisition*, and zip on the Nazis at the time). PR cynically and Godlessly designed to divert attention from the various church sex scandals that now plague them worldwide!!!
There is a test of Faith and God at hand.
It is JUST as obvious that loving gay house holds aren't the ones somehow "automatically" failing it, just because scattering groups of terrified bishops moan it so.
...And what is the ulterior motive, REALLY. If their 'church" fails, they're out of a very cushy job, aren't they...which begs the question:
WHO'S ZOOMING WHOM, ANTIGAY "CLERGY"...?:
a) The folks that still say God = Love, or
b) this newer sicker generation of "religious" zealots hellbent on morphing the Lord's ORIGINAL intent into the exact opposite, God = H8...?
If Satan were real and wanted to get people to damn and condemn "In God's Name", Satan would definitely make sure the innocent kids would be raped and held hostage somewhere against their will, too.
For effect.
Coincidence? To the truly spiritual, there is no such thing...
Why support committed relationships that know love under egregiously odds?
And WHY use orphanages as a way to find loving homes for lonely and abandoned little children, when those SAME orphanages and children can be more efficiently used as political hostages by the Vatican PR Machine (the one that gave us too much *Inquisition*, and zip on the Nazis at the time). PR cynically and Godlessly designed to divert attention from the various church sex scandals that now plague them worldwide!!!
There is a test of Faith and God at hand.
It is JUST as obvious that loving gay house holds aren't the ones somehow "automatically" failing it, just because scattering groups of terrified bishops moan it so.
...And what is the ulterior motive, REALLY. If their 'church" fails, they're out of a very cushy job, aren't they...which begs the question:
WHO'S ZOOMING WHOM, ANTIGAY "CLERGY"...?:
a) The folks that still say God = Love, or
b) this newer sicker generation of "religious" zealots hellbent on morphing the Lord's ORIGINAL intent into the exact opposite, God = H8...?
If Satan were real and wanted to get people to damn and condemn "In God's Name", Satan would definitely make sure the innocent kids would be raped and held hostage somewhere against their will, too.
For effect.
Coincidence? To the truly spiritual, there is no such thing...
26
@24 I think you're wrong there. Joel does react to the constant barrage of money requests by NARAL, PP, and others, but it is inaccurate to say he is "anti-choice". He has never called for the rolling back of personal control in areas of women's health. I also think he moved to the Catholic Church not as much as a reaction to what Episcopalian politicking is, more as an alignment with the good work the local Catholic diocese has done. This letter from the bishops will test that faith, but I think you've read him wrong.
27
Before being elected Pope, Ratzinger was the head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith - an organization that has continued down the centuries since it was called the Holy Office of the Inquisition. They don't turn people over to the civil authorities to be tortured and burned anymore; they just influence government by whatever other means they can.
28
The government frowns on churches telling congregations to urge their representatives to vote a certain way... as in it's probably illegal to do so...
29
@#28: It's only illegal insofar as their tax exempt status is concerned, but I think even there it probably only involves the endorsement of candidates rather than issues, unfortunately. That's for a tax attorney to figure out.
30
so is dominc gay or a catholic? i dont get whats going on. seattle catholics dont have to do a thing.
31
@5: Read @15. The Catholic church is bullying gay people because the church believes that gay people are a small and inconsequential minority.
Three of the gospels record Jesus claiming that remarriage is adultery, a violation of one of the Ten Commandments. Pretty serious stuff.
(And it makes sense: which is a greater threat to the stability of families: a Newt Gingrich or John McCain who is permitted by state law to dump his wife for a trophy wife, or two gay people getting married.)
But you don't see the Catholic church lobbying for laws that prohibit remarriage. Because the church is not concerned about Christianity, or truth; they are concerned about power, and they perceive that bullying minorities will bring them greater power. It's disgusting.
Three of the gospels record Jesus claiming that remarriage is adultery, a violation of one of the Ten Commandments. Pretty serious stuff.
(And it makes sense: which is a greater threat to the stability of families: a Newt Gingrich or John McCain who is permitted by state law to dump his wife for a trophy wife, or two gay people getting married.)
But you don't see the Catholic church lobbying for laws that prohibit remarriage. Because the church is not concerned about Christianity, or truth; they are concerned about power, and they perceive that bullying minorities will bring them greater power. It's disgusting.
32
No need for a tax attorney; nonprofits know the rules and the Church is a nonprofit, which is one of many bitter ironies. No lobbying for candidates; lobbying for issues (including telling your parishoners they'll go to hell or be excommunicated if they don't follow the Church's teachings) is legal.
33
@18 (tniel)
I like the concept of the notecards in the collection plate. If I were still attending a Catholic church (say, because of a nostalgic family connection rather than ideology), I'd do it.
What's even more important is to realize that the Catholic Church (in the USA?) has already publicly stated that it will concentrate the majority of its resources (um, isn't that like megabucks) on halting the advances of same-sex marriage and other gay rights issues.
Which makes it all the more vital that enlightened people NOT be funding the church's intolerant attacks.
I like the concept of the notecards in the collection plate. If I were still attending a Catholic church (say, because of a nostalgic family connection rather than ideology), I'd do it.
What's even more important is to realize that the Catholic Church (in the USA?) has already publicly stated that it will concentrate the majority of its resources (um, isn't that like megabucks) on halting the advances of same-sex marriage and other gay rights issues.
Which makes it all the more vital that enlightened people NOT be funding the church's intolerant attacks.
34
@32 - After reviewing the tax code, I see you're spot on. There's a plethora of bad information about this on the Internet, which I failed to remember to take with a grain of salt.
The tax code is written in such a way that lets churches (and other non-profits), get away with quite a bit. The law needs to be changed so that religious organizations can't influence politics in such a manner.
The tax code is written in such a way that lets churches (and other non-profits), get away with quite a bit. The law needs to be changed so that religious organizations can't influence politics in such a manner.
35
"Sorry if the growing pains of adolescence are awkward..." Is this statement meant to issue a challenge to would-be allies? Because that's condescending.
37
I predict some of the closeted Washington State priests (and Bishop Joseph Tyson of Yakima) will be outed as hypocrites before this Fall's election!
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