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News & ArtsThursday, January 12, 2012
Life The Joys of Home Ownership
Posted by Goldy on Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 11:18 AM
I arrived home last night to the unwelcome sound of rushing water.
The hose connecting the water supply to the tank on my toilet had burst during the day, dumping hundreds (maybe thousands?) of gallons onto the floor, then through it, and into my basement. The vinyl floor, the bathtub, and the six-inch-high plastic molding created a waterproof seal in the bathroom that prevented the water from soaking through the walls to the rooms on other side, and my hundred-year-old house has conveniently settled in such a way that the first floor slopes toward the bathroom, confining the water to the bathroom itself and the narrow, fir-floored hallway outside it. As far as I can tell, the water mostly drained through the hallway floor. It's too soon to tell how the fir flooring fared (though it looks okay at the moment), but for now, the upstairs damage appears limited to the rug in the hallway.
The basement is another issue. Much of the basement has floor drains to accommodate water that occasionally seeps in with the winter rains, but there's one finished corner with a bathroom, kitchenette, and carpeted bedroom that I use for storage... and that's where I found as much as five inches of standing water. It's not like there's water damage to anything I use, so my monetary loss is minimal, but it's a fucking mess, and it's going to be a race against time to clean everything out before the mold sets it.
Regular readers will know that this flood was somewhat my fault. Last weekend I finally took on the awful task of replacing the wax ring on my toilet, only to be forced to replace the gasket and seals in the tank after it leaked on reassembly. It's not that I did anything wrong, but in retrospect, I guess I should have replaced the aging flexible water hose too, which, either weakened by jostling, or perhaps subjected to higher pressure when I turned the water back on, gave out a few days later. Now I know.
Ah, home ownership. The American dream.
I've been there since 1997, so it's not like the house has been a terrible investment, even after the real estate market collapse. But it sure can be a pain in the ass. Earlier this year my hot water tank broke, creating a less dramatic flood along with the unanticipated expense. The rest of my appliances are a decade or two (or four) old, the exterior desperately needs painting, and my century-old steel pipes are succumbing to sclerosis. It's a bit anxiety provoking.
The point is, home ownership isn't everything it's cracked up to be, and certainly isn't for everybody. I don't regret buying my house, or struggling to keep it after the divorce. But when my daughter moves out in a few years, I intend to trade down. And depending on the housing and rental markets, it wouldn't bother me to never own again.
I know that runs counter to the American dream—this aspiration toward home ownership that's been driven into all of us. But the truth is, historically, home ownership isn't generally a spectacular investment. Forced savings, perhaps, but outside of a well-timed real estate bubble, there are many better ways to invest your money. Had I put my down payment into Apple stock, for example, I wouldn't be repairing my own toilet. Few millionaires do.
The biggest advantage to homeownership is stability. With a fixed rate mortgage, you don't have to worry about your landlord raising your rent year after year, or selling your home out from under you. On the other hand, as a renter, when an appliance breaks or a pipe bursts or the roof leaks, it's not your problem. At least, financially.
2
I am so thankful to merely be living next to junkies and ad hoc prostitution businesses here at my apartment complex on East Hill.
3
With an 83-year-old house, a 26-year-old gas furnace, a 20-year-old roof, old water pipes, a leaky finished basement, and rainwater which runs from the street down toward my house, I dream of a small apartment where nothing is my responsibility.
4
I've been there with the toilet troubles. Not sure if you mentioned it, but the coolness of the water in there is really nice when you have to have your hands in it for 45 minutes. It's also a fun reminder when you get your water bill a couple months later.
5
One of the most important lessons I ever learned as a kid was when a neighbor down the road took it upon himself to do some plumbing, which worked fine, until -- like you -- several days later he had a foot of water in the basement and a partially collapsed and rotted floor a year later from a residual leak. I was friends with his son, and he told me:
"Don't fuck with plumbing if you're not a plumber. Pay the money."
I'm terrible with plumbing, so I'd rather spend $800 and owe it on payments and interest rather than risking $5000+ in clean up and damages.
"Don't fuck with plumbing if you're not a plumber. Pay the money."
I'm terrible with plumbing, so I'd rather spend $800 and owe it on payments and interest rather than risking $5000+ in clean up and damages.
6
Important advice...to prevent mold formation in your basement, once the water is cleaned up, turn on all the lights you can, move other lights into the basement and leave them on 24/7. Mold only grows in the dark. Keep it lit, and prevent the secondary damage mold causes.
7
I don't know0-I do hear you about repairs, but I'm forever grateful we have our house. We bought by luck at the right time and our mortgage is so much lower than rents are these days in Seattle. I'd have to be living somewhere in the outskirts instead of in a groovy older house neighborhood. The house itself is a work in progress, but I'm grateful. Many of my artist friends have been priced right out of the city.
8
@3, it's worse when you're paying a significant sum to a landlord, and they're horrible about doing repairs. Tenants have very little recourse in this state.
9
@6: My moldy fruit bowl on the counter, directly under a halogen pendant, would disagree with your assertion.
10
I had this happen to me in my highrise condo. I just happened to be home when it happened and noticed it with in minutes. I was pretty horrified as to what would have happened if I was at work.
11
Goldy, you know I don't think much of your opinions or you as a person. But believe me, I am really sorry to hear about that. And I can empathize a bit - I've had our main house drain back up raw sewage in our basement once and discovered that a silent toilet leak had caused the basement closet beneath to become a mold-infested hellhole (insurance wouldn't pay for the cleanup because it was a "slow leak," although we managed to pay for mitigation, the bathroom remains unused and the damage unrepaired more than a year later).
Yeah, it sucks sometimes. Overall, though, I'm still glad to be a homeowner.
Yeah, it sucks sometimes. Overall, though, I'm still glad to be a homeowner.
12
@3, having tortured myself for years during the bubble trying to tempt myself to buy something, I tellya, my beautifully managed luxury jewelbox apartment downtown - which I can up and move out of any time I like, either to move up or move down or move away, whatevs - has become a hugely mellow living experience. My friends who enmortgaged themselves up the yingyang during the bubble get wonderfully mad when I remind them in my pompousest tone that their mortgage is the rent they pay to the bank to let them stay.
13
Oh yeah, this actually happened to my sister in law over the summer - a broken toilet hose. For some reason shutting off the main didn't stop water from continuing to trickle, and of course the knob was too sticky to close by hand. She had to find a wrench, and I had to get my wet-dry vac and vacuum up 7 or 8 loads of water.
14
As I mentioned in a comment on your other toilet-repair post, I have never started a DIY plumbing job without it metastasizing well beyond what I thought necessary, and requiring multiple trips to the hardware store.
"Angle stops" (the little shutoff valves underneath your sinks and toilets) and supply hoses are frequent sources of trouble. Spend a few bucks extra and get the "quarter-turn" style angle stops; they are a ball-type valve. In old-style ones, the stem packing dries out and the washers erode since they are sometimes not touched for years; you get a double whammy when you actually need them--the stem starts dripping and the valve doesn't shut off all the way.
On supply hoses, ALWAYS get the kind with braided-steel "burstproof" sheathing, and NEVER over-tighten them (read directions on the attached tag).
Better yet, hire a plumber.
"Angle stops" (the little shutoff valves underneath your sinks and toilets) and supply hoses are frequent sources of trouble. Spend a few bucks extra and get the "quarter-turn" style angle stops; they are a ball-type valve. In old-style ones, the stem packing dries out and the washers erode since they are sometimes not touched for years; you get a double whammy when you actually need them--the stem starts dripping and the valve doesn't shut off all the way.
On supply hoses, ALWAYS get the kind with braided-steel "burstproof" sheathing, and NEVER over-tighten them (read directions on the attached tag).
Better yet, hire a plumber.
15
Why can't we have smart meters that shut off when massive amounts of water are flowing through them for long periods of time or that alert us to steady constant leaks? Seems like a pretty trivial things to implement and would help save water and avoid this kind of damage.
16
My sympathy on the flood. I'd take others' advice and call a plumber. That's what I did when the hot water tank died, and when the toilet gave up the ghost. Expensive, but worth it to me. If you have red fir flooring that's original, though, you probably don't have to worry too much about damage. Mine's 97 years old and it's like granite. Just get it as dry as you can and put a circulating fan somewhere so that air can move around and speed the evaporation. You may have to re-varnish, but that's probably all you'll need to do to the fir. Good luck.
17
Yeah, basically this exact same thing happened to us last week (not the hose, but another part of an upstairs toilet malfunctioned). Only we were out of town. And so the water had longer to accumulate than a day (we should have shut off the water before we left, I know... but we didn't). That was a fine way to start 2012.
The contractor who worked on the repairs said whoever installed the toilet had no idea what they were doing (probably the previous homeowner). So, we have that person to thank for being a cheapskate and not hiring an expert...
The contractor who worked on the repairs said whoever installed the toilet had no idea what they were doing (probably the previous homeowner). So, we have that person to thank for being a cheapskate and not hiring an expert...
18
Yeah, that ownership knife cuts both ways.
I've been kicked out of four wonderful places when they were sold, had weirdo landlords and other rent increase issues. On the homeowner side I've been pretty happy. Built a nice home office, have a dog, and bought the place before prices got completely crazy so I can walk away with a little profit while building equity. I like the house, I like the stability, I like the freedom to decorate and have a dog as I please.
As to the stock investment analogy, I would counter with what if you invested your down payment in Enron? Tally up all your repair costs and your mortgage payments and compare that against what you could get for selling the house. Now tally up what it would cost to rent the same size house.
Obviously not everyone comes out ahead, but most do if you didn't buy at the height of the market with a high interest rate. Also be honest about the comparison. You can't argue rent for a studio against a mortgage for a three bedroom house.
I've been kicked out of four wonderful places when they were sold, had weirdo landlords and other rent increase issues. On the homeowner side I've been pretty happy. Built a nice home office, have a dog, and bought the place before prices got completely crazy so I can walk away with a little profit while building equity. I like the house, I like the stability, I like the freedom to decorate and have a dog as I please.
As to the stock investment analogy, I would counter with what if you invested your down payment in Enron? Tally up all your repair costs and your mortgage payments and compare that against what you could get for selling the house. Now tally up what it would cost to rent the same size house.
Obviously not everyone comes out ahead, but most do if you didn't buy at the height of the market with a high interest rate. Also be honest about the comparison. You can't argue rent for a studio against a mortgage for a three bedroom house.
20
I *hate* renting with the fire of a thousand suns; it was a huge wake-up call to me when I moved into a nice (and expensive) apartment two years, just to find that the building was managed just as badly or worse than the shit-hole where I used to live. That and the horror stories I've heard from friends who've lived at the Harbor Steps have made it crystal clear that even high-price renters in this state have little protection against lazy landlords.
That said, even when banks were handing out mortgages like candy, I still refused to buy. I won't buy with less than three months' salary in savings, which means, even if I take a huge risk with 3 percent down on an FHA, it's going to be a long-ass time before I can afford to buy, assuming I ever will.
That said, even when banks were handing out mortgages like candy, I still refused to buy. I won't buy with less than three months' salary in savings, which means, even if I take a huge risk with 3 percent down on an FHA, it's going to be a long-ass time before I can afford to buy, assuming I ever will.
21
@15, There are water sensing shutoffs available. You put little puck sized monitors next to your water heater, behind each toilet, under your washer, and if they sense water they shut it off and sound an alarm.
Cheap investment compared to the cost of cleanup.
Oh yeah, +1 on ball valves for shutoffs. It should be standard in the building code.
Cheap investment compared to the cost of cleanup.
Oh yeah, +1 on ball valves for shutoffs. It should be standard in the building code.
22
Early in my home buying search, I was given a great financial rubrik: factor 1% of the home's value in annual repairs/maintenance. It may not amount to that every year, but on average, it'll work out (you may go 2 or 3 years without a major repair, and then be faced with a collapsed sewer repair). I know, just one more thing to think about. But having this in the back of my mind has made me more aware, and freak out less, when we've had to do repairs.
And I gotta say, even with our home value dropping (as we bought in 2008), I'm still so glad to be an owner. As a tenant, the unpredictability was always un-nerving. There was a great house with great landlords that lasted 4 years. But there were also crazy landlords, rent increases, delays/ignored necessary repairs, the duplex going on the market (meaning I had people coming into my place often, for weeks and weeks, needing to keep my home in "saleable" condition, never getting to relax/sleep-in or have a romantic daytime adventure). It was lame and interfered with my life enough, that it is what finally convinced me to look into purchasing). There are definitely times when it would be nice for these home ownership problems to be someone else's responsibility, but at the end of the day, I guess I prefer to be the boss rather than the employee. As with owning your own business, there are perks but also hardship, whereas an employee can punch their timecard and then not worry about the rest of it...but that employee also doesn't have longterm control.
*shrug* In any case, if you are considering hiring a plumber, always check the Better Business Bureau and the L&I website. Angie's List is actually a pretty good resource, too (despite their annoying ads)
And I gotta say, even with our home value dropping (as we bought in 2008), I'm still so glad to be an owner. As a tenant, the unpredictability was always un-nerving. There was a great house with great landlords that lasted 4 years. But there were also crazy landlords, rent increases, delays/ignored necessary repairs, the duplex going on the market (meaning I had people coming into my place often, for weeks and weeks, needing to keep my home in "saleable" condition, never getting to relax/sleep-in or have a romantic daytime adventure). It was lame and interfered with my life enough, that it is what finally convinced me to look into purchasing). There are definitely times when it would be nice for these home ownership problems to be someone else's responsibility, but at the end of the day, I guess I prefer to be the boss rather than the employee. As with owning your own business, there are perks but also hardship, whereas an employee can punch their timecard and then not worry about the rest of it...but that employee also doesn't have longterm control.
*shrug* In any case, if you are considering hiring a plumber, always check the Better Business Bureau and the L&I website. Angie's List is actually a pretty good resource, too (despite their annoying ads)
23
Your fir flooring might look okay now, but it will warp and lift soon enough--I know this from experience (a water heater-turned-fountain, in our case). Call your homeowners insurance and get a claim in--and get a water damage crew out asap. You do NOT want to let mold get started.
For a few hours' worth of water leaking out of the water heater, we (or rather, our insurance company) had to bring in heavy-duty drying equipment to get rid of all the moisture, then replace the vinyl floors in two rooms and hardwood floors in two more, paint three rooms (because of the damage done removing baseboards to do the floors), and put us in a hotel and our cats in a boarding kennel for over three week altogether while the house was torn apart. Insurance paid for almost all of it, except the water heater itself. At least we finally saw some return on all those premiums we've been paying all these years. I believe they paid upwards of $20,000.
For a few hours' worth of water leaking out of the water heater, we (or rather, our insurance company) had to bring in heavy-duty drying equipment to get rid of all the moisture, then replace the vinyl floors in two rooms and hardwood floors in two more, paint three rooms (because of the damage done removing baseboards to do the floors), and put us in a hotel and our cats in a boarding kennel for over three week altogether while the house was torn apart. Insurance paid for almost all of it, except the water heater itself. At least we finally saw some return on all those premiums we've been paying all these years. I believe they paid upwards of $20,000.
25
Ive been to thorton place and the station at othello both are quite nice with great amenities, i would suggest moving to one of those places or something similar. Other than that goldy sucks cock and rapes his daughter
26
It's even more fun when the flooding is completely mysterious and not your fault. Our basement flooded one night when, we thought, our water heater gave out, but even after I was able to completely drain the thing, the water kept coming and coming.
Finally, after about four hours of mindless panicking and mopping, we figured out it was coming THROUGH THE WALL from the ground outside. The good news was our water heater was fine.
After calling the city water emergency line, they were out in like two minutes, and immediately ascertained that our neighbor's water supply line had burst. They shut her water off, which was fun for her too. She had to spend the next day digging a trench the entire length of her yard to expose the pipe, and then get a plumber to replace it (the price for him digging the trench himself is exorbitant, simply because he doesn't want to do it; I think he quoted her twenty grand or something; it took three people about eight hours).
Finally, after about four hours of mindless panicking and mopping, we figured out it was coming THROUGH THE WALL from the ground outside. The good news was our water heater was fine.
After calling the city water emergency line, they were out in like two minutes, and immediately ascertained that our neighbor's water supply line had burst. They shut her water off, which was fun for her too. She had to spend the next day digging a trench the entire length of her yard to expose the pipe, and then get a plumber to replace it (the price for him digging the trench himself is exorbitant, simply because he doesn't want to do it; I think he quoted her twenty grand or something; it took three people about eight hours).
27
Don't blame the victim but PREVENTABLE ACCIDENT goldy! If you can't handle replacing a wax ring, which is about the easiest thing to do in plumbing, call a pro or work with a friend who knows a bit about the stuff.
Home ownership has been basically like a small business that gets resold every so often at a profit; With that model gone it's a different dream. Home ownership, if funds are tight, is great for the DIYer who likes tearing shit apart, but not always so great if you just want to live in a place where everything just works at minimal expense.
Home ownership has been basically like a small business that gets resold every so often at a profit; With that model gone it's a different dream. Home ownership, if funds are tight, is great for the DIYer who likes tearing shit apart, but not always so great if you just want to live in a place where everything just works at minimal expense.
29
To be clear, I don't eschew plumbers. I had the new water heater professionally installed, and I hired a plumber to deal with actual pipes. But things like installing sinks and fixtures and toilets are reasonable DIYS projects, with minimal tools.
It was a lack of wisdom that led to yesterday's flood, not a lack of skill. It just didn't occur to me to swap out what had been a completely functional hose.
It was a lack of wisdom that led to yesterday's flood, not a lack of skill. It just didn't occur to me to swap out what had been a completely functional hose.
30
Goldy, talk to me after you evict squatters, dispose of syringes, buckets of shit, 50+ years of hoarder trash, and deal with the after effects of a burst supply line, second-floor water tank leak and cracked cast-iron sewage stack leaking into the walls. Not to mention pre-WWI wiring, leaking oil tank removal and prepping and painting a Victorian for the first time in 50 years. Ahh, home ownership...
31
1: You should replace your flexible water supply line hoses regularly.
2: They sell hoses which shut-off automatically should there be a hose burst or other catastrophic device failure:
http://www.watts.com/pages/whatsnew/floo…
I understand the misery of water flooding the home. I had a miserable time last winter due to rainwater flooding in a finished basement. Definitely sucks when you're the landlord rather than the tenant when things go seriously wrong... :(
2: They sell hoses which shut-off automatically should there be a hose burst or other catastrophic device failure:
http://www.watts.com/pages/whatsnew/floo…
I understand the misery of water flooding the home. I had a miserable time last winter due to rainwater flooding in a finished basement. Definitely sucks when you're the landlord rather than the tenant when things go seriously wrong... :(
32
On the lack-of-wisdom front, @29, I'll bet when that new water heater was "professionally installed" you didn't have the cheap plastic drain valve at the bottom of the tank replaced with a straight-throught 3/4" quarter-turn brass ball valve (with male hose threads on the outlet) while the tank was still empty, did you?
33
Goldy: @23 has great advice. Contact your homeowners insurance company right away. You my be surprised how quickly and efficiently they respond to a water or smoke damage claim with a clear origin. Their are pros who dry basements and floors just like yours are now that the insurance may be very comfortable sending to you right away.
Also, I've done a few toilets and sometimes swapped out the hose, but I wouldn't have thought to do it as a matter of course.
Also, I've done a few toilets and sometimes swapped out the hose, but I wouldn't have thought to do it as a matter of course.
34
I had a client have a hose washer burst at their house on Camano while they were in Cali. Leaked for several months. Took over a year to get the crawlspace fully dry.
35
My toilet hose leaked a few months ago; the water damaged has since warped the floorboards and the ceiling paint on the floor below is messed up.
My friend who is a plumber told me that the plastic bits in 80's-90's hosing was garbage.
My friend who is a plumber told me that the plastic bits in 80's-90's hosing was garbage.
36
Also: learn how to turn off your main incoming water supply today. If it's in a concrete vault in the parking strip, make sure you have a tool to lift the cover, a "street key" (the long-handled tool that grabs the horizontal bar on the valve to turn it), and know exactly where the valve is. Keep the opening free of mud and debris.
Many older homes don't have an accessible valve inside the house for this. That one on the hot-water outlet of your water heater only shuts off the... hot water. If your main incoming water line is accessible in the basement or garage before diverging all over the place, be pro-active and (wait for it)... have a full-bore quarter-turn brass ball valve (hooray!) installed.
They don't leak, they work when you need them to, and they're much easier to turn off when you go out of town than the street valve (so you'll actually remember to do it).
Last tip: buy burst-proof hoses for your washing machine too, and turn off the valves at the wall (when you're out-of-town, at the very least).
Many older homes don't have an accessible valve inside the house for this. That one on the hot-water outlet of your water heater only shuts off the... hot water. If your main incoming water line is accessible in the basement or garage before diverging all over the place, be pro-active and (wait for it)... have a full-bore quarter-turn brass ball valve (hooray!) installed.
They don't leak, they work when you need them to, and they're much easier to turn off when you go out of town than the street valve (so you'll actually remember to do it).
Last tip: buy burst-proof hoses for your washing machine too, and turn off the valves at the wall (when you're out-of-town, at the very least).
37
@ 31, thanks for that. Although that site listed no price, it looks like something that isn't too expensive at all.
38
I'm a homeowner, but I've never been convinced that it's cheaper to own than to rent. No-one lives the same way in a place they own versus one they rent, and it always costs more, and you're on the hook for all of it.
Also, my rule of thumb is never DIY anything that deals with "inside the walls". Pay the plumber and electrician.
Also, my rule of thumb is never DIY anything that deals with "inside the walls". Pay the plumber and electrician.
39
I too had to deal with the downstairs toilet seal going after an unexpected Xmas Eve flash flood blocked my roof drains while I was on vacation.
Expensive and messy.
Condolences!
Expensive and messy.
Condolences!
40
@38,
A landlord's goal is to make a profit on the properties they rent. If you're spending more to own than to rent, you're doing something seriously wrong.
A landlord's goal is to make a profit on the properties they rent. If you're spending more to own than to rent, you're doing something seriously wrong.
41
It's been said by others, but it can't be emphasized enough: If you haven't already rented an industrial strength dehumidifier and blowers, go do it right fucking now!
43
@29: Unless that hose was obviously corroded or worn, a plumber probably wouldn't have replaced it either.
At least the interest you are paying on the mortgage is tax deductible, unlike rent.
At least the interest you are paying on the mortgage is tax deductible, unlike rent.
44
I was told by my plumber its always good form to replace hoses when replacing shit attached to them.
45
Just two days ago I gratefully paid a grizzled old plumber a hundred bucks to snake out the main exit pipe of my house. As a bonus he filled my ears with fascinating plumbing lore. I'm just grateful that it was only gray water that backed up. I had sewage back up in a house in Seattle, and it was horrifying.
Tough break, Goldy. It happens to all of us.
Tough break, Goldy. It happens to all of us.
46
@ 45, come to think of it I think I only had gray water, too, not sewage (@ 11). It didn't stink too bad. But I believe the two end up in the same drainage because our house was built in the 50s.
47
Don't worry, Goldy. These trials are not something that my generation has to worry about, because we'll never be able to afford our own homes.
48
@30, here's an interesting story of a similar experience in a much, much newer house, a 1930s Paul Thiry in the Denny-Blaine neighborhood. "Standing black water in the kitchen sink" -- yikes. http://brangien.com/2012/01/11/a-single-… (be sure to click on the Flickr link too).
49
Regarding the differences between owning and renting: both the homeowner and the renter pay for repairs and upkeep (the renter indirectly), but the homeowner gets to choose what repairs get made. Sometimes this means you're going to end up paying more because you'll fix things a landlord wouldn't, but it also means you improve your quality of life by fixing the things you want fixed, instead of just the things that can no longer be ignored. They've both got their pros and cons, but I personally could never go back to renting. If I was less handy, I probably wouldn't enjoy homeownership.
50
oh, and re: the horrors of being at the mercy of someone else deciding what needs fixing: I once lived in an apartment where I considered installing a shutoff valve on the kitchen sink DRAIN because the landlord wouldn't do anything about the periodic backflow from the upstairs neighbor. I never ever used my kitchen, and I was tired of coming home to a sinkful of orange goo. So there's that.
51
Home ownership was so much more fun when we all could afford quality contractors to take care of this kind of thing!
52
Renting can be a pain when it comes to repairs, too. My kitchen ceiling leaked for two weeks before they figured out where it was coming from (fourth floor bathroom - I'm on the first floor). They were supposed to replace the warped doors on my kitchen cabinets, fix the damaged part of the ceiling, and replace the inside top of the cabinets. I've been waiting for them to do that for two weeks now, while subsiting on toast and takeout, because everything that was in those cabinets and on my counter is on my stove now.
Before I left for vacation today, I ran into the maintenance manager of the building. He told me they slashed his maintenance budget so far that he can't buy what he needs to do the repairs. The owner of my building is hoping to tear it down to build more overpriced condos, even though he can't sell all the units in the ones he just built. That isn't surprising, considering the smallest one bedroom cost almost $300K.
Before I left for vacation today, I ran into the maintenance manager of the building. He told me they slashed his maintenance budget so far that he can't buy what he needs to do the repairs. The owner of my building is hoping to tear it down to build more overpriced condos, even though he can't sell all the units in the ones he just built. That isn't surprising, considering the smallest one bedroom cost almost $300K.
53
@40: There are a lot of reasons that isn't necessarily true.
The first is that the timeline of investment is different. A landlord buys their property once, and locks in payments for a long time. During a period of high vacancies, they will charge less in rent, or offer more concessions.
The second is availability of capital. Even a 2% mortgage costs a hell of a lot over 30 years. If you make a small down payment, and can't afford to pay off your mortgage quickly, the costs can really add up. Obviously, large landlords are able to negotiate better deals (if they don't own the properties outright).
The third is that there are fixed fees associated with buying and selling. If you plan to own a property for 30 years, they amortize away, but if you're not sure that you're going to be around for more than 3-5 years, they can have a significant effect on your cumulative costs.
The fourth is that new properties are often mispriced. If you buy a townhouse or condo for $400,000, but it's only worth $200,000, that's a lot of money you're throwing away (and will be for 15-30 years). It's less common for rentals to be massively mispriced, simply because the market is more liquid -- renters move much more often than owners.
The New York Times has a great calculator on their site about whether it's cheaper to buy or rent:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/busin…
They also have an article on the topic:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/11/busine…
Check out the graphic -- note that Seattle is firmly in the "renting is cheaper" camp.
More...
The first is that the timeline of investment is different. A landlord buys their property once, and locks in payments for a long time. During a period of high vacancies, they will charge less in rent, or offer more concessions.
The second is availability of capital. Even a 2% mortgage costs a hell of a lot over 30 years. If you make a small down payment, and can't afford to pay off your mortgage quickly, the costs can really add up. Obviously, large landlords are able to negotiate better deals (if they don't own the properties outright).
The third is that there are fixed fees associated with buying and selling. If you plan to own a property for 30 years, they amortize away, but if you're not sure that you're going to be around for more than 3-5 years, they can have a significant effect on your cumulative costs.
The fourth is that new properties are often mispriced. If you buy a townhouse or condo for $400,000, but it's only worth $200,000, that's a lot of money you're throwing away (and will be for 15-30 years). It's less common for rentals to be massively mispriced, simply because the market is more liquid -- renters move much more often than owners.
The New York Times has a great calculator on their site about whether it's cheaper to buy or rent:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/busin…
They also have an article on the topic:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/11/busine…
Check out the graphic -- note that Seattle is firmly in the "renting is cheaper" camp.
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