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News & ArtsThursday, January 12, 2012
Homo Gay Marriage Debate Officially Canceled After Five Anti-Gay Leaders (Including Three Pastors) Confirm and Then Back Out
Posted by Dominic Holden on Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 5:31 PM
The same-sex marriage debate at Town Hall on January 18 is canceled.
Sorry to all the folks who had free tickets (in hindsight, they were overpriced).
So what happened? Even though we've got stacks of anti-gay-marriage leaders in the state, not a single one of them was willing to defend their position at Town Hall in a fair debate moderated by Dave Ross. As we mentioned on Monday, Pastor Ken Hutcherson and Stephen Pidgeon canceled, even though they had confirmed the week before. But we didn't call it off at the time. We scoured the state for replacements.
On Monday Pastor Joe Fuiten at the Cedar Park Assembly of God and Joseph Backholm, the director of the Family Policy Institute of Washington, agreed to take part in the debate. "Joseph Backholm has said he will do it with me," Fuiten wrote in an email on Monday evening after seeing all the debate format details. He was even working on confirming attorney Austin Nimocks as a backup. "It will either be the two Joes or the other Joe and Austin," Fuiten added. But then he canceled the next day, saying they got "cold feet." Mars Hill Church Pastor Tim Gaydos also agreed to debate against gay marriage, with his assistant Steven Kwan writing in an email, "Pastor Tim is in! January 18th would be the best date." Gaydos backed out of the January 18th debate two days later, citing unspecified "personal" reasons.
Plenty of other people—people who have repeatedly gone on the record opposing marriage equality—also refused to argue against same sex-marriage at Town Hall. Other folks who refused include: Mars Hill Church Pastor Mark Drisoll, State Senator Val Stevens; State Senator Dan Swecker; the entire state GOP legislative caucus, according to a spokeswoman; conservative radio host Michael Medved; SPU political science professor Reed Davis; and City Church Pastor Judah Smith. We even put in a request to anti-gay-marriage attorney general Rob McKenna, but we never heard back.
These are the same people who evangelize against gay marriage in front of their congregations, espouse anti-gay positions in editorial board meetings, record anti-gay videos, take votes against gay rights in the legislature, go on their radio shows to denounce marriage equality, and help run anti-gay campaigns.
Tickets to the event were promoted action alerts sent out by Hutcherson's Antioch Bible Church, so the audience wasn't going to be hostile or unfairly stacked against the anti-marriage-equality side. The debate was to be moderated by fairsy-squaresy Dave Ross. It was going to be recorded and replayed on the Seattle Channel and live-streamed so it could reach the largest possible audience. Sure, you could claim that The Stranger is biased—we are—but we worked closely with Ken Hutcherson to make sure it was a fair debate. But they don't seem interested in fairness. They prefer to churn out lies in venues where they can't be challenged on their facts or their logic.
In the end, they refused to come to the table. And if you're going to fight to deny equal rights, the least you can do it stand up in a room of mixed company and explain yourself. But they won't do it.
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At least there are proud, family-protecting Christian partisans willing to stand up for what's "right" in anonymous internet forums, though!
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What a bunch of pussies. They sure don't have the courage of their 'convictions', do they?
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OK, I'll grant that among people who would care enough to show up for such an even (either pro or anti) there probably aren't a lot of people who don't have their mind made up pretty firmly.
However...nearly any poll that tracks opinions re marriage equality (or related issues) over time shows a pretty strong trend in favor of equality. Somebody is changing their mind.
That, or one side is literally dying off. It's probably a bit of both.
I think that the general cowardice displayed by one side here indicates nothing so much as they see the writing on the wall.
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But I think you're all being dreadfully unfair to the clergy. They have a tough life, with their one day work week and all. I'm sure their busy social calendar precludes appearing at events where they might have to defend their faith. After all, It's easier to preach to the choir. And even better when the choir is tithing.
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They claimed that Hutch was willing to pay for renting out a venue in Bellevue but it was just in Dec that he sent emails out to his church demanding they start giving more because the pastors on staff weren't getting paid regularly. I have those emails so I am not sure where he was going to pull that $ from.
In the 5th chapter of Matthew Jesus (You remember him, Hutch?t) said to let your yes be yes and your no be no "anything beyond this comes from the evil one." Hutch has proven himself to be a false prophet and an opportunist. How many times has the man said that God told him something and it didn't come to pass? Whether it was him making an ass of himself in front of Microsoft or claiming that God was not going to allow the pass of Ref 71 he has proven himself to be untrustworthy. I'm not sure why his church can't see that.
Please, for his sake and everyone else within earshot of him, get this man out from behind a microphone and get him help. He obviously has mental issues and he's using God to validate his narcissism and delusions of grandeur.
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Spread the good word, and read the list of those who have no defense for their slanders.
Which also gives you the opportunity for signing up the audience for action!
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OK, these guys were afraid of being outnumbered and beat down. They didn't want to preach to someone else's choir, it would do no good. Or so they're telling themselves.
Maybe try it again, but in an invite-only manner for the audience. Instead of polarized, decisions'-already-made factions, why not invite as many undecideds as possible? Including state senators that are still on the fence?
This frames things a little more fairly (in their mind) and gives them something of a mission (again, in their mind). And, frankly, these kinds of debates aren't a show for people who've made up their minds, they're a way for each side to reach out to those who, for whatever reason, haven't yet.
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Mrs. "marriage is procreation and gheys are free to marry anyone of the opposite sex."
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The 47th probably won't let me into the monthly meetings at Roundtable Pizza any more...but...what can you say!
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These aren't idiots, they know they would be hammered into the soil if they cannot readily use the Bible as a crutch (which demands that everyone listening believes in the same version of it as them) so they backed down.
All that remains now is to hound them. Whenever they argue openly someone needs to step up and say "why did you all back down from debating this?" do that long enough and they will say so much shit as an excuse that they will bury themselves in manure.
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-1 Peter 3:15-16
Oops!
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Pay-per-view it, whatever. You just have to wait till he's free that is...
The 2012 Marriage Equality Debate
Savage Vs. Santorum.
...for the love of Jesse, somebody make this happen.
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Also, a style suggestion: Rather than (for example) "City Church Pastor Judah Smith," can it be "Judah Smith, pastor at City Church?" Giving clergy capitalized titles seems unwarranted; let them do that for themselves if they want.
oh no, never....
Danny wouldn't be able to delete comments he finds awkward and impossible to answer....
Purocuyu @ 51 has an abso-fucking-lutely brilliant idea!
A Savage vs. Santorum debate on contraception and marriage equality as a pay-per-view event would rake in bucks. Mr. Santorum might accept because he could use the money to pay campaign expenses. It would provide his supporters with an unregulated method to support his campaign, like book sales for Gingrich, Obama, and Cain. I don't imagine that Mr. Savage would object to some national exposure and windfall income.
I think the area of discussion would have to be expanded beyond marriage equality to contraception, anti-sodomy laws, and all manner of reproductive rights. It would really center around the government's authority to regulate citizen's intimate behavior. That way it would include the broader scope of interests - both Mr. Santorum's and Mr. Savage's.
Don't get me wrong. I was looking forward to the show! Sounded like a hoot and a half. I'm disappointed it won't happen -- but not surprised. I second 14's motion.
Don't get me wrong. I was looking forward to the show! Sounded like a hoot and a half. I'm disappointed it won't happen -- but not surprised. I second 14's motion.
Someone recently suggested here on SLOG that many of these "advocates" for "traditional values" are cynical exploiters of their flocks, using the issue to raise money and for little else. That they don't give a damn about the issue other than to use it for self-aggrandizement.
This proves it.
They have a good deal, a money-making machine in their big fish/fetid pond scenario. They know that the underlying issue, their position on marriage (in)equality is not defensible, though. It can be easily shredded on legal, moral or religious grounds. They can't allow that.
As long as they don't show up, they can keep selling their fear and hatred to the rubes, and keep filling their coffers. If they show up and get publicly embarrassed, it's game over.
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