Slog
News & ArtsMonday, January 2, 2012
Crime The Mountain, The Killer, and His Society
Posted by Charles Mudede on Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 11:33 AM
As we wait for the capture of the killer on the mountain, we need to think about the kind of society we live in, and the values that define this society. Contrary to what many of the commenters on Seattle Time's post may believe ("Wonder how he is feeling right about now that he is being hunted down like a wild animal..."), that killer did not grow up in a vacuum. He was raised in a social environment that often devalues aspects of human sociality that are central to the healthy development of individuals. Here is one such example:
“It’s sobering to remember that the majority of our children, before they enter kindergarten … are in programs where people are paid really low wages, maybe $15,000 to $20,000 a year,” says Whitebook, who directs the Center for the Study of Child Care Employment at the University of California at Berkeley...That is the kind of society we live in. On average, a person who watches cars is paid more than a person who watches children. True, children from rich families do receive great care, but they are still raised in a society that doesn't integrate child care into its concept of democracy. And a democracy that privileges voting above all else is impoverished. Indeed, banning guns will do much less for democracy and crime than doubling (even tripling) what child care workers earn. This is not a sociobiology versus social constructivism thing; this is a simple fact of American life: parking attendants are paid more than child care workers.
Whitebook starts the interview by confirming that, yes, child care workers are typically paid less than parking lot attendants.
1
He is already dead, asswipe.
Why has slog failed to mention the fact that 2 Gang Members of Color were shot by some other Gang Members of Color in downtown Seattle on Saturday night?
Why has slog failed to mention the fact that 2 Gang Members of Color were shot by some other Gang Members of Color in downtown Seattle on Saturday night?
4
Gus for the win. Geez, Charles. Yes, we do need to pay child care workers more, but trying to use this senseless tragedy as the springboard (to quote Goldy) for that discussion makes no sense.
Since we do not know much about the killer's background, we can't extrapolate anything.
Since we do not know much about the killer's background, we can't extrapolate anything.
7
How does this have anything to do with anything? And taking my shotgun so I can't hunt anymore isn't going to solve this either. Law abiding citizens with guns are not the problem, crazy people with guns are the problem. We need to require mental health verification be part of the background check. Not childcare, not restricting lawfull gun owners... Just screen mental health at the gun shop
8
Charles:
"extrapolate: to infer (an unknown) from something that is known; conjecture." Seems to me you were trying infer the unknown motivations of this killer from the known salaries of child care workers. If you weren't trying to extrapolate, then what was your point? You shouldn't need a murder of a park ranger to start a discussion of child care in this country.
"extrapolate: to infer (an unknown) from something that is known; conjecture." Seems to me you were trying infer the unknown motivations of this killer from the known salaries of child care workers. If you weren't trying to extrapolate, then what was your point? You shouldn't need a murder of a park ranger to start a discussion of child care in this country.
9
It is surprising that the average wage for elementary school teachers is $35! That's $70,000 a year (minus 3 months of summer).
http://www.convertunits.com/hourly/35
http://www.convertunits.com/hourly/35
10
And teachers, nurses, social workers, etc, all get paid exponentially less than dudes that are skilled at hitting balls with sticks or throwing a ball into a hoop. Yup, society is DUMB. This is no surprise. Look around you. Most people are utter dipshits (but deeply believe that they're not).
11
hmmm. before i speculate on what part of his upbringing or what part of civilian society warped his brain, i want to know more about his military service. i saw mention that he is a veteran. did service in Iraq/Afganistan drive him crazy?
that's what i'd speculate about first.
that's what i'd speculate about first.
12
Mr. Mudede,
Sir, your detractors will never read what you write, they'll only understand that you have committed the heresy of suggesting that "the shinning city on the hill" is less than perfect and that we could learn from the rest of the world.
Much like an alcoholic, who fails to grasp that even problems not directly related to their behavior, are at least exacerbated by it.
But I suspect you knew that already.
Sir, your detractors will never read what you write, they'll only understand that you have committed the heresy of suggesting that "the shinning city on the hill" is less than perfect and that we could learn from the rest of the world.
Much like an alcoholic, who fails to grasp that even problems not directly related to their behavior, are at least exacerbated by it.
But I suspect you knew that already.
13
Good Morning Charles,
I disagree. You've taken a few hits already but improved salaries to child care providers has nothing to do with the tragic killing on Mt. Rainier. For all we know and we know very little at this point, this young man may have had a normal upbringing. I don't know what demons possessed this man's mind. Personally at this point, I just think this man's behavior aberrational. Alas, people like him exist in any age/system. We somehow need to keep weaponry away from them.
I disagree. You've taken a few hits already but improved salaries to child care providers has nothing to do with the tragic killing on Mt. Rainier. For all we know and we know very little at this point, this young man may have had a normal upbringing. I don't know what demons possessed this man's mind. Personally at this point, I just think this man's behavior aberrational. Alas, people like him exist in any age/system. We somehow need to keep weaponry away from them.
14
Charles,
I see this comparison between how little we pay child care workers and a war vet going nuts as putting 2 issues that are the result of the same causes next to each other.
In a nutshell, I see the connection, but there are a whole shitload of dots in between that have not yet been connected to help this make sense to others.
Our society is fucking nuts, and has been getting nuttier since WW2. We are pitted against each other, all so that we can be more willing slaves.
I see this comparison between how little we pay child care workers and a war vet going nuts as putting 2 issues that are the result of the same causes next to each other.
In a nutshell, I see the connection, but there are a whole shitload of dots in between that have not yet been connected to help this make sense to others.
Our society is fucking nuts, and has been getting nuttier since WW2. We are pitted against each other, all so that we can be more willing slaves.
15
@7: We need to require mental health verification be part of the background check
Background check? You can't be serious. What a fucking joke.
Face it - the price we all pay for your precious hunting privileges is that anyone, psychopaths included, can get a gun and murder countless people. No background check is gong to change that.
Enjoy your hunting! And be careful not to accidentally shoot one of your kids in the head!
Background check? You can't be serious. What a fucking joke.
Face it - the price we all pay for your precious hunting privileges is that anyone, psychopaths included, can get a gun and murder countless people. No background check is gong to change that.
Enjoy your hunting! And be careful not to accidentally shoot one of your kids in the head!
17
@15 seandr: I'm with your general view here, but have to say that very very few homicides are done with hunting guns. (check out the picture of this lost soul Barnes in the paper this morning, machine pistol and assault fifle raised above his head, both with enormous clips. And fuck you gun nuts who want to nit pick about how I'm misidentifying the guns somehow.) You got to get clear on this. The gun nuts don't give a shit about hunting. They talked a lot about hunting when the NRA needed to gin up support for their lobbying efforts. Now that they have won their political fight, they again don't give a fuck about hunting.
18
I pretty much agree Charles. It's not really clear that you're even suggesting a causal relationship between the pay levels of parking lot attendants, child care workers and a man who killed some other man. But yeah, raised in a social environment that devalues human life: that's pretty much our entire superficial and cosmopolitan world here, especially in the US where drone killings get less media time than the Christmas sales. Yet it is important to look at a society and culture hellbent on mass suicide. It's also enlightening to see the middle class self-described "liberals" here defending such a society or at the least clutching pearls in response to you here...
19
I really hope you limbered up before that stretch. Do you know anything about the circumstances in which this particular killer was raised? Do you even know if he ever saw the inside of a day care? Did he have a stay at home mom, a nanny, wolves who raised his as their own? You know nothing about him, I'd bet. Not that your point about day care workers isn't valid (though it would be far better if we integrated work with child rearing so that less low-paid strangers were needed to raise children) but like any ideologue, you are ready and willing to graft any random fact onto your preset agenda. This case has as much to do with day care as it does with health insurance, televised violence, foreign policy, abortion, or anything else the Freakonomics hacks could possibly squeeze in. In other words, it has everything and nothing to do with it. Give it a break, man. People who draw large conclusions from the anecdotal evidence of individual criminal acts almost always get it wrong.
20
on the contrary, we need more guns in circulation among the defects. In general they keep the population of other defects in check. Cops should stick to protecting the tax payers; this guy was a rabid psycho driving into the outback without chains; not a good reason to pick a fight to the death.
21
Quit using this tragedy to further your misguided political agenda.
According to Komo he had restraining orders against him, this means it was illegal for him to own firearms on both the state and federal level. Gun control does noting to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals, and in fact undermines democracy. The most brutal murderous regimes in the last century have one thing in common: they all banned the possession of firearms. The united states was built on the gun, as Thomas Jefferson said, "Firearms area liberty teeth."
The only thing I can see helping to prevent this would be better mental health services for veterans reintegrating into society after witnessing the horrors of war. It seems like the same tragic story again and again. Those who risked their lives for this country are tossed aside when they return home.
According to Komo he had restraining orders against him, this means it was illegal for him to own firearms on both the state and federal level. Gun control does noting to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals, and in fact undermines democracy. The most brutal murderous regimes in the last century have one thing in common: they all banned the possession of firearms. The united states was built on the gun, as Thomas Jefferson said, "Firearms area liberty teeth."
The only thing I can see helping to prevent this would be better mental health services for veterans reintegrating into society after witnessing the horrors of war. It seems like the same tragic story again and again. Those who risked their lives for this country are tossed aside when they return home.
23
It's a good thing that progressives are utterly without balls--otherwise conservatives would not have such easy victories in the legislative branch. Progressives spend far too much time consuming their most important proponents, far more eagerly than they do their true enemy. But I would say this illustrates the disparity between white and non-white America.
You motherfuckers are more eager to discredit the already disenfranchised America than you are to bring down your mighty fellows of similar inbred breeding, but of conservative leaning.
Mudede is the only reason I bother to read slog; everything else is utterly inconsequential or completely misguided (Goldy).
Come out Ye Black an' Tans; Come out and fight me like a man.
Tell her how the IRA made you run like hell away.
You motherfuckers are more eager to discredit the already disenfranchised America than you are to bring down your mighty fellows of similar inbred breeding, but of conservative leaning.
Mudede is the only reason I bother to read slog; everything else is utterly inconsequential or completely misguided (Goldy).
Come out Ye Black an' Tans; Come out and fight me like a man.
Tell her how the IRA made you run like hell away.
24
Yeah, it might have been the child care workers' pay that led to the shootings, or it might have been the apparent PTSD-fueled violence, mixed with recent custody disputes, and quite likely alcohol at a house party.
But no, he was probably shooting people cause he didn't get enough quality child care as a kid. Probably had nothing to do with being trained to kill as a young adult and then sent off to war.
But no, he was probably shooting people cause he didn't get enough quality child care as a kid. Probably had nothing to do with being trained to kill as a young adult and then sent off to war.
25
@20
You have the right spirit. It's time someone showed those dead-beat defects in the US National Park Service what for! Cause that's what you were saying right? That park rangers are defects who should be shot and killed?
You have the right spirit. It's time someone showed those dead-beat defects in the US National Park Service what for! Cause that's what you were saying right? That park rangers are defects who should be shot and killed?
26
If you think paying child care workers $60,000 a year would change a single thing in America, you're completely, completely crazy.
27
Nice post, Mr. Mudede.
@7: "Just screen mental health at the gun shop" I love you for writing this. Have you ever been to a gun shop?
@7: "Just screen mental health at the gun shop" I love you for writing this. Have you ever been to a gun shop?
28
While I agree that child care providers are typically under paid, over worked, and unappreciated, this incident didn't arise from that problem. My candidate for bottom line source would be the unavailability of good jobs, people being forced into the military to earn a living, and a military forced to take psychologically inappropriate candidates to pad the rolls.
If you want to continue on the child-being-scarred-by-something theme, I feel sorry for the psycho's children.
Peace.
If you want to continue on the child-being-scarred-by-something theme, I feel sorry for the psycho's children.
Peace.
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