Slog
News & ArtsFriday, December 30, 2011
Savage Love SL Letter of the Day: Sex Advice That Works
Posted by Dan Savage on Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 4:26 PM
Just writing to say thanks. I'm a 29-year-old straight guy from Edinburgh, and my brother (24, gay) and I are both regular readers, listeners and iphone-app owners. I met a girl online about a year ago, we hit it off great and, as one does, the second or so time we went to bed I asked her, "So, what are you into?" She looked at me like I was nuts, then did the same again a while later, when I suggested we have sex a second time in a day. Turned out she'd never had an orgasm with another person involved, ever. So we followed the you-do-it-while-I-watch, you-do-it-while-I-help, I-do-it path that you recommend, and the problem was soon solved.
Next came the more tickly subject of kink. I have an armpit fetish: regular porn does nothing for me—I masturbate to pictures of girls with pitstains and have done since the internet was invented, and the smell of women's sweat drives me crazy. This has been a subject of fairly deep lifelong embarrassment; I think previous girlfriends probably figured it out, but I was very much in the fetish "closet." This summer, after listening to quite a lot of your podcasts, I finally managed to OK it with myself and "came out" to the GF. She was initially puzzled but willing to give it a try to please me, and now—not being a naturally very sweaty person—routinely goes without deodorant when we are together. In return she gets infinity oral (which I love anyway), no pressure to go down on me (which she likes rather less and I can take or leave) and, without wishing to cast a huge festive jinx on everything, we're ridiculously happy.
So... I'm not saying I definitely couldn't have got to this point without your advice, but I definitely probably couldn't, and that merits a big sincere thank you. Keep up all your excellent work, and have a great new year.
Grateful In Edinburgh
Thanks for the wonderful note, GIE, and a happy new year to you, your GF, and her pits.
3
I kept waiting to hear where the gay brother came back into the story... Guess I'll have to write that part myself.
But: "infinity oral"? Not liking the phrasing. I'm glad he loves giving her oral, and hoping she loves it just as much. But for the giver to emphasize how extremely much he gives seems odd to me. Like, "look at me, I'm so good to her."
But: "infinity oral"? Not liking the phrasing. I'm glad he loves giving her oral, and hoping she loves it just as much. But for the giver to emphasize how extremely much he gives seems odd to me. Like, "look at me, I'm so good to her."
6
Yay, happy heterosexuals after a string of sad. Thanks, Dan, for creating a more sex positive and communication positive world.
7
Fiona on "Burn Notice" has perpetually sweaty armpits...so does Sam for that matter.
http://tooshallow.com/wp-content/uploads…
http://tooshallow.com/wp-content/uploads…
10
Ms Erica - You don't object to "girl"? I do occasionally when in the mood. As the IO (and the lack of pressure to reciprocate) was mentioned as being in return for her no-deodorant accommodation, it seemed reasonable to assume it was something she wanted, although GIE could be mistaken.
And it would be nice to have a brother update. But, on the whole, they get at least a provisional Good On Them.
And it would be nice to have a brother update. But, on the whole, they get at least a provisional Good On Them.
11
@10 On Slog I don't object to 'girl'; I treat it as the parallel term to guy. But I was bugged by GIE's various references to his girlfriend as naive, inexperienced, and willing to go along with whatever GIE proposes, rather than as an adult in her own right. I'm guessing there's at least six years age difference between them; which reminds me of a similar relationship I had at a similar age (22). However else she was coming on her own, it wasn't through oral -- so the story I'm hearing is that he taught her how to come from oral sex, and now she loves it more than anything else, and it's just fortunate that he happens to love giving it. Forgive me for being skeptical, based on my own early relationship.
12
Now all I can think about is "infinity oral." Mmmmmm..... oh, to experience that at some point would be lovely.
13
3
he isn't very good at it
and she really isn't that in to him
so it takes forever for her to get off.
he isn't very good at it
and she really isn't that in to him
so it takes forever for her to get off.
15
@13: If you have that heartily constrained of a sexual worldview, clearly you need to sleep with more people. :)
@12: There are plenty of fans of that. See @14 already. :) If they're really GGG, I shouldn't think that that would be a problem to set up. That seems way easier than infinity male oral. I would love to see the neck muscles on anybody who has mastered that. :)
@12: There are plenty of fans of that. See @14 already. :) If they're really GGG, I shouldn't think that that would be a problem to set up. That seems way easier than infinity male oral. I would love to see the neck muscles on anybody who has mastered that. :)
16
Sweet letter. And nice to hear from another fellow who can take or leave receiving oral--the Hollywood nonsense about a woman's mouth instantly bringing all straight men to orgasm is annoying.
Happy New Year to Dan-the Man and the commentariatti, or whatever the word would be.
Happy New Year to Dan-the Man and the commentariatti, or whatever the word would be.
17
@11, some of my experience also points me in the skeptical direction -- too many people believe that giving oral to women is an easy path to orgasm that every woman likes equally, and are surprised when they find out it's not as simple as touch-and-go.
But it has happened to me also to open a few past partner's eyes to things they didn't know they would love (including, with my first girlfriend, oral -- to the point that she, who had never tried it before ['it's icky!'] ended up demanding it up front and looking dismayed if for some reason it wasn't possible).
So I don't feel too skeptical. After all, the point of the letter is to say that the LW is in a great place now with his girlfriend, and that he probably wouldn't be in such a place (because he wouldn't have had the courage to come out of the closet with his kink) if it weren't for Dan's advice. For all I know, this may be exactly what happened -- he showed his girlfriend something she liked (and she started having orgasms with other people for the first time), then he mentioned something he liked, she, being GGG, gave it a try, and both were happy with the results.
@10-11, indulging in my lexical fetish... what is objectionable with "girl"? Is it the 'child' implication? And does it extend to "girlfriend"?
But it has happened to me also to open a few past partner's eyes to things they didn't know they would love (including, with my first girlfriend, oral -- to the point that she, who had never tried it before ['it's icky!'] ended up demanding it up front and looking dismayed if for some reason it wasn't possible).
So I don't feel too skeptical. After all, the point of the letter is to say that the LW is in a great place now with his girlfriend, and that he probably wouldn't be in such a place (because he wouldn't have had the courage to come out of the closet with his kink) if it weren't for Dan's advice. For all I know, this may be exactly what happened -- he showed his girlfriend something she liked (and she started having orgasms with other people for the first time), then he mentioned something he liked, she, being GGG, gave it a try, and both were happy with the results.
@10-11, indulging in my lexical fetish... what is objectionable with "girl"? Is it the 'child' implication? And does it extend to "girlfriend"?
18
@11: EricaP, that's perhaps the most uncharitable reading of a SLLOTD I've seen you give. I think you're doing some heavy reading-between-the-lines to get to a point where you can mis-project as much as you have.
1) He doesn't say she was naïve, he said that she looked at him like he was nuts. Nor does looking "puzzled" about a fetish she's probably never heard of imply a general image of the woman as naif.
2) He didn't say he taught her to orgasm from oral, he says that he discovered that she has never had an orgasm with another person, and they followed Dan's advice on how to get her there.
3) He doesn't say she just went along with whatever he proposed, he said she agreed to give his fetish a try and says it was because she wanted to please him (wanting to please one's partner doesn't seem so out of the ordinary).
4) He doesn't say she's lucky he likes to give oral, he says that she willingly accommodates his fetish and he willingly does something she likes (goes down on her - without expectation that she go down on him and without complaint - quite unlike guys who make it all too clear they're doing so reluctantly).
1) He doesn't say she was naïve, he said that she looked at him like he was nuts. Nor does looking "puzzled" about a fetish she's probably never heard of imply a general image of the woman as naif.
2) He didn't say he taught her to orgasm from oral, he says that he discovered that she has never had an orgasm with another person, and they followed Dan's advice on how to get her there.
3) He doesn't say she just went along with whatever he proposed, he said she agreed to give his fetish a try and says it was because she wanted to please him (wanting to please one's partner doesn't seem so out of the ordinary).
4) He doesn't say she's lucky he likes to give oral, he says that she willingly accommodates his fetish and he willingly does something she likes (goes down on her - without expectation that she go down on him and without complaint - quite unlike guys who make it all too clear they're doing so reluctantly).
20
By the way, a happy new year of 2012 for all of you! (We're going out to watch the beginning fireworks, it's already almost 18:00 here.)
21
Ms Erica - I agree that I'd have been much more inclined to be pillish if he'd said "man" instead of "guy". This is one thing that particularly grates on me, especially during basketball season, when I am almost guaranteed each week to hear a reference to both UConn "men" and "girls" (when, accurately, "women" and "boys" would be a far closer to accurate appraisal of the programs most years), to which I always respond with an incisive and acid-toned, "Women!"
While I don't find "gal" aesthaetically pleasing (that middle "a" is one of my favourite deliberate affectations), at least it serves as an unambiguous "guy" equivalent. I keep thinking I ought to like it, as it should remind me of the British hard-G pronunciation "gel".
Mr Ank - I reluctantly think we're stuck with "girlfriend" and "boyfriend", despite the objection neatly exemplified in *Rumpole and the Dear Departed*. Ladies and gentlemen really belong only at Wimbledon, and somehow I can't envision "manfriend" and "womanfriend" catching on. As for "girl", it's often a useful and accurate descriptor for those of legal age. One of my favourite examples is the first meeting on My So-Called Life between Angela's mother Patty and Rayanne's mother Amber, after which Patty goes home and describes Amber to Graham half-enviously as "this 40-year-old girl", and she's quite right. In a dating context, however, we see "girl" way too often. Its use doesn't always mean that the heterosexual male in question doesn't treat or respect his femal partner as an adult, but it often coincides with something on that spectrum.
To be fair, this reverses itself somewhat in the over-seventies.
While I don't find "gal" aesthaetically pleasing (that middle "a" is one of my favourite deliberate affectations), at least it serves as an unambiguous "guy" equivalent. I keep thinking I ought to like it, as it should remind me of the British hard-G pronunciation "gel".
Mr Ank - I reluctantly think we're stuck with "girlfriend" and "boyfriend", despite the objection neatly exemplified in *Rumpole and the Dear Departed*. Ladies and gentlemen really belong only at Wimbledon, and somehow I can't envision "manfriend" and "womanfriend" catching on. As for "girl", it's often a useful and accurate descriptor for those of legal age. One of my favourite examples is the first meeting on My So-Called Life between Angela's mother Patty and Rayanne's mother Amber, after which Patty goes home and describes Amber to Graham half-enviously as "this 40-year-old girl", and she's quite right. In a dating context, however, we see "girl" way too often. Its use doesn't always mean that the heterosexual male in question doesn't treat or respect his femal partner as an adult, but it often coincides with something on that spectrum.
To be fair, this reverses itself somewhat in the over-seventies.
22
Wow, this story was the pits ;-)
Couldn't resist. Happy new year, y'all. Still AM this NYE this far west.
Couldn't resist. Happy new year, y'all. Still AM this NYE this far west.
23
@18 I was bored and couldn't stand to see a SLLOTD wasted on a chorus of "how sweet"... If GIE or his girlfriend (or GIE's brother) chime in, I'll apologize.
Re your #1, you're removing the context: "I asked her, "So, what are you into?" She looked at me like I was nuts, then did the same again a while later, when I suggested we have sex a second time in a day."
Compare: "I said, let's go skydiving today, and she looked at me like I was nuts."
To imply that, in 2010, someone over the age of consent didn't know that different people might be into different things, sexually, or that people might have sex twice in one day, is to imply that person is naive. Or never got onto the internet.
Re your #2, are you saying that he didn't "teach" her to come from oral, they figured it out together? Clearly she never had before him... Maybe they got there together, but he still seems awfully self-congratulatory to me.
Re your #1, you're removing the context: "I asked her, "So, what are you into?" She looked at me like I was nuts, then did the same again a while later, when I suggested we have sex a second time in a day."
Compare: "I said, let's go skydiving today, and she looked at me like I was nuts."
To imply that, in 2010, someone over the age of consent didn't know that different people might be into different things, sexually, or that people might have sex twice in one day, is to imply that person is naive. Or never got onto the internet.
Re your #2, are you saying that he didn't "teach" her to come from oral, they figured it out together? Clearly she never had before him... Maybe they got there together, but he still seems awfully self-congratulatory to me.
24
@17 "Is it the 'child' implication?" Yes. Especially when the conversation refers to 'men' and 'girls' as Mr. Ven points out @21.
26
Thanks for all the comments
@delwalk thanks especially, you put it much better than I managed to.
I should maybe have added to the letter that the thank you for going without deodorant includes a pass to try whatever she wants (with the 'no children, animals or poo' rule in place obv.), whenever she wants (with the 'no toilets at the crematorium at Grandma's funeral etc.' guideline in place, similarly).
The lady in question is 25, if it helps, and regarding the women vs girls issue I am generally in agreement. I am a high-school crew coach by profession and only this year sent the organisers of a certain event a gently worded email admonishing them for referring to both under-18 and adult athletes as 'girls' over the PA system, which sounded patronising and Not Right. That said, I defend in this context my use of 'girl' as a feminine analogue of 'guy', which I think somebody pointed out.
Anyway, thanks for printing, Dan, and a Happy New Year and good loving to all.
GIE
x
@delwalk thanks especially, you put it much better than I managed to.
I should maybe have added to the letter that the thank you for going without deodorant includes a pass to try whatever she wants (with the 'no children, animals or poo' rule in place obv.), whenever she wants (with the 'no toilets at the crematorium at Grandma's funeral etc.' guideline in place, similarly).
The lady in question is 25, if it helps, and regarding the women vs girls issue I am generally in agreement. I am a high-school crew coach by profession and only this year sent the organisers of a certain event a gently worded email admonishing them for referring to both under-18 and adult athletes as 'girls' over the PA system, which sounded patronising and Not Right. That said, I defend in this context my use of 'girl' as a feminine analogue of 'guy', which I think somebody pointed out.
Anyway, thanks for printing, Dan, and a Happy New Year and good loving to all.
GIE
x
27
GIE, thanks for writing in, thanks for explaining that she gets whatever she likes, not just the oral-that-you-love-to-give, and here's my apology for picking apart your nice letter.
Does she also read the SL column/listen to the podcast?
Does she also read the SL column/listen to the podcast?
28
She does, as of recently, though not yet with the same assiduousness as me and the bro.
No need to apologise - I quite see how my letter may have given that impression, and you were right to point it out.
No need to apologise - I quite see how my letter may have given that impression, and you were right to point it out.
29
@24, oh, I see. It's a little like my first reaction to seeing lovers calling each other "baby" in English. :-)
I must admit Portuguese does better in that respect: the words namorado 'boyfriend' and namorada 'girlfriend' (from Italian innamorato) do the job without any reference to underage humans.
I must admit Portuguese does better in that respect: the words namorado 'boyfriend' and namorada 'girlfriend' (from Italian innamorato) do the job without any reference to underage humans.
30
Happy New Year, All!
May joy and great sex overwhelm you all in 2012. Good luck in all your travels and adventures, too! As always thank you for the education and sharing your $0.02.
Kind regards,
k
May joy and great sex overwhelm you all in 2012. Good luck in all your travels and adventures, too! As always thank you for the education and sharing your $0.02.
Kind regards,
k
33
Mr Grateful - Good to hear from you, and glad that everything is in such good form. I'm sure we all hope all goes equally well for your brother.
34
I am amazed at each new kink I read each week. But my point today is to echo the letter's sentiment. What a great community and I'm thankful to be a part of it.
35
"But for the giver to emphasize how extremely much he gives seems odd to me. Like, 'look at me, I'm so good to her.'"
You are so evolved/righteous/whatever, you can see sins everywhere, even those hidden. Good work, reverend.
You are so evolved/righteous/whatever, you can see sins everywhere, even those hidden. Good work, reverend.
36
@35 Actually, I have tons of flaws, most especially an overweening vanity which fuels my pleasure in posting my thoughts to Slog. The phrase "infinity oral" disturbed me, since I'm someone who wouldn't want that as a gift. But we cleared that up and I've apologized (@27) for jumping to conclusions.
37
Actually, I have tons of flaws, most especially an overweening vanity...
Overweening...isn't that the cowgirl position?
Overweening...isn't that the cowgirl position?
38
17/ankylosaur: too many people believe that giving oral to women is an easy path to orgasm that every woman likes equally, and are surprised when they find out it's not as simple as touch-and-go.
In my experience, with a fair number of women, only two did not like receiving oral. Every other one loved it. But I'd agree that my experience isn't necessarily representative of women in general...perhaps I've just been lucky.
In my experience, with a fair number of women, only two did not like receiving oral. Every other one loved it. But I'd agree that my experience isn't necessarily representative of women in general...perhaps I've just been lucky.
40
@38, in my case, it was about half. The first woman I slept with -- the one who took my virginity -- was very easy to please orally, so I thought I was a champ. Then the second one simply couldn't get off on oral alone, and I was stuck in "but you're supposed to like this!" mode until I figured out there are individual differences between women.
In my experience (also a fair number of women, about two dozen in 25 years or so), some women found oral very pleasant, an easy way to get to orgasm. Others found it OK, arousing, good foreplay, but not an easy way to get an orgasm (other kinds of stimulation or activities were necessary). Yet others weren't really aroused by it, and would rather we did something else. The best thing was when the woman already knew what she likes best and could tell me; if she didn't, I played around a little to see how she reacted (without assuming that there's something she's "supposed" to like), trying also the variations I was familiar with. Unless she had hang-ups or felt really uncomfortable, it was always possible to find something she really enjoyed. Even if it wasn't oral. :-)
In my experience (also a fair number of women, about two dozen in 25 years or so), some women found oral very pleasant, an easy way to get to orgasm. Others found it OK, arousing, good foreplay, but not an easy way to get an orgasm (other kinds of stimulation or activities were necessary). Yet others weren't really aroused by it, and would rather we did something else. The best thing was when the woman already knew what she likes best and could tell me; if she didn't, I played around a little to see how she reacted (without assuming that there's something she's "supposed" to like), trying also the variations I was familiar with. Unless she had hang-ups or felt really uncomfortable, it was always possible to find something she really enjoyed. Even if it wasn't oral. :-)
41
@36, I think you can consider it a badge of honor when people criticize your tone or point out your flaws. It shows that your voice here has become important enough for people here to care about such things. It's what the resident trolls do with Dan himself.
42
Interesting...thanks ankylosaur. I didn't have the same "but you're supposed to like this!" reaction when I met the first woman who didn't care for it but I admit that I was quite surprised, since every woman I'd met before her had loved it. I'm not suggesting that every woman who doesn't like it has "issues" (e.g. smell, taste) with her genitals, but this woman seemed to. She'd say things like "how can you possibly like that?" The second woman I met who didn't like it just said it didn't do much for her. I told her we probably weren't sexually compatible (and there were other things about her I didn't care for...e.g. she needed to have things completely dark.)
As for the other women, there wasn't a single one that didn't come that way. I suppose some of them could have been faking, but I honestly don't think so.
In any case, yes, there certainly are individual differences between women same as with men. I'm open to a lot of things but a woman not liking receiving oral isn't one of them. That's a sexual deal-breaker for me because I like it so much.
As for the other women, there wasn't a single one that didn't come that way. I suppose some of them could have been faking, but I honestly don't think so.
In any case, yes, there certainly are individual differences between women same as with men. I'm open to a lot of things but a woman not liking receiving oral isn't one of them. That's a sexual deal-breaker for me because I like it so much.
44
Roma, I did have that reaction, but probably because I was a little more naive then than you probably were at a similar time in your life, and still believed in ready-made recipes to solve problems with people... that was quickly changed, though.
I quite agree with respect to giving oral -- it's one of my favorite activities: the taste and smell are literally inebriating (though I wouldn't consider it a deal-breaker if a woman wasn't all that interested in it; there are other fun activities, too).
Many of the women I met who didn't like oral did have "hang-ups" (smell, 'but it's so icky, how can you like it'); curiously, though, so did some of the women who knew they enjoyed it ('eeww, I don't know why you like doing it, but I'm glad you do!'); others, however, just didn't seem to respond as enthusiastically, and would pull me somewhere else. Some of it has to do with technique (one woman thought she didn't like it, but it really was because she needed more intense, repeated, 'fluttering-butterfly'-like attention but had only received a few slow licks from a former boyfriend and thought that was all), some of it has to do with different levels of reponsiveness in different women's genitals (I was surprised to see that two different women can react very differently to the very same routine). Just as with other body parts: some women enjoy breast touching more than others, some have special pleasure zones (say, the spot between the breasts) that bring no special pleasure to others, etc.
Maybe you were indeed lucky, or maybe my sample was more varied (I'm Brazilian, I've spent a number of years in the US but also in other countries -- there may be cultural factors at play), I don't know. But I have heard from other guys, also in America, who also were surprised to sleep with some women who didn't care much for receiving oral -- it doesn't seem to be such a rare experience.
More...
I quite agree with respect to giving oral -- it's one of my favorite activities: the taste and smell are literally inebriating (though I wouldn't consider it a deal-breaker if a woman wasn't all that interested in it; there are other fun activities, too).
Many of the women I met who didn't like oral did have "hang-ups" (smell, 'but it's so icky, how can you like it'); curiously, though, so did some of the women who knew they enjoyed it ('eeww, I don't know why you like doing it, but I'm glad you do!'); others, however, just didn't seem to respond as enthusiastically, and would pull me somewhere else. Some of it has to do with technique (one woman thought she didn't like it, but it really was because she needed more intense, repeated, 'fluttering-butterfly'-like attention but had only received a few slow licks from a former boyfriend and thought that was all), some of it has to do with different levels of reponsiveness in different women's genitals (I was surprised to see that two different women can react very differently to the very same routine). Just as with other body parts: some women enjoy breast touching more than others, some have special pleasure zones (say, the spot between the breasts) that bring no special pleasure to others, etc.
Maybe you were indeed lucky, or maybe my sample was more varied (I'm Brazilian, I've spent a number of years in the US but also in other countries -- there may be cultural factors at play), I don't know. But I have heard from other guys, also in America, who also were surprised to sleep with some women who didn't care much for receiving oral -- it doesn't seem to be such a rare experience.
45
@Roma & ankylosaur, some women (like me) were introduced to cunnilingus non-consensually, and so associate it with a very unpleasant incident. In my case, we were teenagers, my male friend thought that it wasn't really cheating on his girlfriend (my best friend) to offer me this treat, and he couldn't imagine I wouldn't like it, so he didn't take it seriously when I said 'no, stop.'
For ten years, I wouldn't let guys do it to me. Now enough time has gone by that I have learned to find it pleasurable (though it's not an easy way to get me to come, since I generally need more intense stimulation than anyone can deliver by tongue).
For ten years, I wouldn't let guys do it to me. Now enough time has gone by that I have learned to find it pleasurable (though it's not an easy way to get me to come, since I generally need more intense stimulation than anyone can deliver by tongue).
46
Ms Erica - Well, that's certainly a reasonable basis for distaste and suspicion, and explains why you were perhaps a bit edgier than usual this time.
But I must leave this thread now; even reading it is giving me cramps.
But I must leave this thread now; even reading it is giving me cramps.
48
@45 Erica,
What a cruel person to do what he did, knowing your relationship would probably hold you silent and that the degree of assault was probably just below actionable.
I hope that you have truly won your body back from that POS.
Peace.
What a cruel person to do what he did, knowing your relationship would probably hold you silent and that the degree of assault was probably just below actionable.
I hope that you have truly won your body back from that POS.
Peace.
49
@45(EricaP), as Mr Ven says above, this certainly explains your feelings. I'm sorry to hear that this happened to you. I hope it isn't a frequent thing. (None of the women I slept with who didn't like oral reported that; though some might have hidden similar incidents from me, it seems the most frequent case is that, the first time they tried, the guy -- and often the woman, too -- thought it would be just a few licks and then big orgasms, which didn't happen: they were bored rather than aroused.)
People manipulating each other is always a sad thing. Again, I'm sorry to hear this happened to you.
People manipulating each other is always a sad thing. Again, I'm sorry to hear this happened to you.
50
Thanks for kind thoughts, everyone. Ankylosaur, did you see that in the older thread (Best Laid Plans), aphrodite wrote about a possible explanation for your disinterest in PIV?
In part:
>>> It sounds as though you may have a form of phimosis ( a condition where, in men, the foreskin cannot be fully retracted over the glans penis), which is not rare condition among uncircumcised men. I don't think much of the urologist you saw. I think you need to visit some other doctors, perhaps even a surgeon. This is an condition that might be corrected.>>>
In part:
>>> It sounds as though you may have a form of phimosis ( a condition where, in men, the foreskin cannot be fully retracted over the glans penis), which is not rare condition among uncircumcised men. I don't think much of the urologist you saw. I think you need to visit some other doctors, perhaps even a surgeon. This is an condition that might be corrected.>>>
51
@50, no, I hadn't seen it. I hadn't heard about phimosis; interesting. Certainly worth a question to my doctor.
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