Slog
News & ArtsThursday, December 22, 2011
Savage Love SL Letter of the Day: Mind The Age Gap
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 3:59 PM
I have a question, but first a foundation: Me is a 6'4" blond and blue 58 yo cracker in remarkably good shape for my age—before decrepitude started gnawing away I was a national-class extreme sports participant for 30 years. I still kayak/bike/hike but can longer compete against records (except geriatric ones).
I had the unfortunate experience of being discovered as homosexual (as it was called back then) while in a small evangelical fundamentalist college in the 70's—discovered not because I was active or anything, but because after three years the profs noticed I never dated, so my theology adviser called me into his office and said that the church did not commission unmarried evangelists or, as he so poetically put it, "No Peach, no preach." Since being gay was not an option back then, they corralled me into a barbaric "change ministry" the church had for the likes of me—what a total cluster fuck that shit does to your head and soul forever! I paid piles of money in the after-years to try and clean the crap out that they put in. So after a really serious suicide attempt failed, they abandoned me. So there I was: a bent dude of 30 who had never had any sex whatsoever.
When I was adolescent I was attracted to regular type guys in their 20s. When I was in my 20s I was attracted to guys my own age—but got perverted from those God-given desires and lassoed into that abomination of desolation called Straightening. In my 30s it was still only the occasional guy in his 20s who got my juices flowing. The 40s were the same. And now that I am over-ripe it is still (unfortunately) ONLY an occasional guy in his 20s who attracts me. I've tried all sorts of mind maneuvers and whatever to get beyond this ridiculous limitation, and theoretically would love to find a guy my age and live happy ever after until we croak... but someone my own age or thereabout simply does not work for me, and I've tried it. I do not even want sex whatsoever unless it is with a guy I'm attracted to, and the only ones who ever fit that bill are in their 20s.
So now that my pathetic foundation has been laid (unlike me) I have this question: Since I do not want nor can I even enjoy sex unless there is mutual attraction and affection, and since I am only attracted to young guys, I have given up on such ever happening. However, giving up hope of a serious and also physical relationship has led to a persistent depression that I just can't shake no matter how much I avoid the matter by doing all sorts of adventures, impossible projects and so forth.
So I ask Dan Savage, Mighty Counselor, this question: have you ever known a young man to be truly and affectionately attracted to somebody that could be his father or grandfather—and not just as a Sugardaddy?
I have much to offer, but don't have a clue.
Ain't Getting Any Younger
My response after the jump...
····················
If you had met and married a 28-year-old guy when you were 38... that guy would be 48 now, right?
You can't spend your life with someone without that person aging with you. Which means, of course, that even if you met a 20-something now who was into you, AGAY, he would one day age right out of his 20s. But love—true love—is a vaseline-smeared lens with the power to transform an entirely looks-based sexual
attraction into a life-long sexual connection.
When you're lucky.
That's no comfort, I realize, because you're not 38 anymore. So here's some comfort: there are definitely guys in their 20s out there who are into to much older guys. Have you been to DaddyHunt.com? It's where Armistead Maupin met his husband—his much younger husband. Now like all those straight female models who can't get enough of straight male billionaires, one thing some younger men might find attractive about older, more established men is the whole provider/sugardaddy thing. But that's an entirely legit attractor, in my opinion. If it's fine for you to be aroused by the body a 20-something provides you, AGAY, it's fine for that 20-something to be aroused—in part—by your ability to provide for him.
And speaking of vaseline-smeared lens... just look what one can do!
1
Dude. Just make a lasting relationship with an escort. It may not be "real" in that you'll have to pay for it, but you can develop a good friendship (they're people too, who can and do make friendships with clients) AND you get your sexytimes.
And I'm very sorry to hear about your experience with Christian love.
And I'm very sorry to hear about your experience with Christian love.
3
Grandpa raises an interesting point.
Danny has illuminated it for us over the years.
Why does Danny insist that he be allowed to cheat?
Why does Danny insist that monogamy is unrealistic?
Unfair?
Because Danny literally can not comprehend "true love".
Which is an aspect of normal heterosexual man-woman attraction.
Danny has never gotten past lust attraction.
To Danny relationships are all (and only) means to sex.
Anyone who has ever been in "true love" knows that those feelings are independent of and totally transcend sexual attraction.
Anyone who has ever been in "true love" knows that those feelings and that love would endure even if it were never possible to have sex with ones soul mate, or if sex became impossible
"True Love" does not die when sexual novelty wears off.
"True Love" is a function of normal heterosexual man-woman attraction.
Danny has illuminated it for us over the years.
Why does Danny insist that he be allowed to cheat?
Why does Danny insist that monogamy is unrealistic?
Unfair?
Because Danny literally can not comprehend "true love".
Which is an aspect of normal heterosexual man-woman attraction.
Danny has never gotten past lust attraction.
To Danny relationships are all (and only) means to sex.
Anyone who has ever been in "true love" knows that those feelings are independent of and totally transcend sexual attraction.
Anyone who has ever been in "true love" knows that those feelings and that love would endure even if it were never possible to have sex with ones soul mate, or if sex became impossible
"True Love" does not die when sexual novelty wears off.
"True Love" is a function of normal heterosexual man-woman attraction.
4
"true love—is a vaseline-smeared lens with the power to transform an entirely looks-based sexual attraction into a life-long sexual connection."
.
wow.
incredibly sad......
It's all about the sex, isn't it Danny.
we feel sorry for you. but more so for Terry.
"true love—is a vaseline-smeared lens with the power to transform an entirely looks-based sexual attraction into a life-long sexual connection."
.
wow.
incredibly sad......
It's all about the sex, isn't it Danny.
we feel sorry for you. but more so for Terry.
7
I've known three guys in their 20s over the last couple decades who were seriously into older men. But they're exceptionally rare. And at least the 3 I knew all had some baggage attached to that attraction. So I think it is possible to meet someone young that might be into you, but he won't be easy to find, and there might be more than the average drama involved.
Good luck.
Good luck.
8
I'm going to take a shot in the dark here and conjecture that AGAY is someone who's been swayed by his impression that everything these days is governed by the hookup culture. He doesn't go into specifics about where and how he meets guys, just says "I've tried it" when it comes to relating to men nearer his age.
There's still nothing wrong with a "friends first" approach to sex, AGAY, if you haven't given that a fair shot. In other words, maybe change your social pattern to meeting people through clubs, organizations, volunteer opportunities representing a constellation of non-sexual fields of interest. That leads to further socializing opportunities (day outings, travel, dinner invitations, etc.) without an implied sexual end-game. You might find a deeper connection with people that way.
If I'm wrong, at least you can console yourself that you didn't grow up Catholic and didn't fall victim to the all-too-common end-result of their dumbfuckery: pedophilia. But your particular background sounds fucked up beyond the usual fundamentalist/evangelical effects on gays, and I'd encourage you to say what denomination and what school did those appalling things to you.
One more thing: Even if you continue to prefer twentysomething men, be honest about your own physical attributes and attractiveness, and work to stay fit and healthy so you can better keep up with the young bucks.
There's still nothing wrong with a "friends first" approach to sex, AGAY, if you haven't given that a fair shot. In other words, maybe change your social pattern to meeting people through clubs, organizations, volunteer opportunities representing a constellation of non-sexual fields of interest. That leads to further socializing opportunities (day outings, travel, dinner invitations, etc.) without an implied sexual end-game. You might find a deeper connection with people that way.
If I'm wrong, at least you can console yourself that you didn't grow up Catholic and didn't fall victim to the all-too-common end-result of their dumbfuckery: pedophilia. But your particular background sounds fucked up beyond the usual fundamentalist/evangelical effects on gays, and I'd encourage you to say what denomination and what school did those appalling things to you.
One more thing: Even if you continue to prefer twentysomething men, be honest about your own physical attributes and attractiveness, and work to stay fit and healthy so you can better keep up with the young bucks.
10
The writing style of AGAY is infuriating. Ugh. It's not just his attraction to men that's stuck in adolescence. Just because it is an email doesn't mean you can give up entirely on proper English.
That all being said? I wish you luck AGAY. You made it through hell and back and that is something that takes a LOT of strength.
That all being said? I wish you luck AGAY. You made it through hell and back and that is something that takes a LOT of strength.
11
Either pay up or go without. I'm lucky that I find men my age hot. They're much less flighty and they know what's fun and interesting.
13
@3-4(Q-pid(ity)),
your desire for Dan
transcends your beliefs
your sense of self
your sense of argumentation
Not that one needs arguments
or even to be right
when one has pseudo-poetry
to be outraged about the normal
to project one's desires
or, in general,
to belabor the pointless
ah! if only sex were so easy
and so free of love
so clean in its dirtiness
as you think it is!
your desire for Dan
transcends your beliefs
your sense of self
your sense of argumentation
Not that one needs arguments
or even to be right
when one has pseudo-poetry
to be outraged about the normal
to project one's desires
or, in general,
to belabor the pointless
ah! if only sex were so easy
and so free of love
so clean in its dirtiness
as you think it is!
16
I'm going to suggest this as an outsider: what would it take for a co-operative of middle-aged gay dudes to establish something like a frat house outside, say, Julliard, as a MacDowell Colony -- not for writers -- but for gay 20-somethings? The co-op provides room and board for promising performers who can sign-up 3 (or whatever ratio of) sponsors, up front about how grants may be given based on the hard-ons the recipients generate, and arrangements for sex established accordingly.
17
AGAY is like so many gay men his age, stuck in the past when we were all young and pretty. For a Gay man like AGAY it seems to be all about looks. Well so be it AGAY. You know what you like, and there's no changing that. But keep one thing in mind, if YOU won't date a guy like you, why the HELL would any one else.
18
Okay, AGAY, strap in because this is bumpy advice.
Use your age. Use it in spades. Be aware the 20 year olds you're going to be attracting are most likely going to have serious daddy issues (conscious or unconscious). Get comfortable with that and work it. Then help them work through them. Because if you want something lasting, you've got a lot of long-term grooming to do, specifically bringing in fresh 20something into the mix in 10 years or so (assuming your outlook doesn't change). That may break the original relationship. It may not.
The primary factor working against you is that 20 somethings have LOTS more options to form relationships with peers now. However, like there's always a market for Metal music so long as there are hormonal teenage boys, there's always a market for mature guys among young men who need the daddy of their dreams.
Can they be "truly affectionate"? Fuck, yeah. But there's no guarantee how they're going to turn out as they age. People change.
The primary thing I'd throw out there for you to consider is that you may not end up with a "one true love" that lasts the rest of your life. Most people don't. Is it a bad thing if you have a series of really smoking 3-5 year relationship and then you both move on (you to another 20something with daddy issues and him to whatever)? Think shorter term and be honest with yourself. If you're not going to feel the same way when his life-clock starts blinking, okay. That's the cost of admission to the ride.
BTW, if you're near a university with a graduate program, that's a good place to look (or move near to if you're not), particularly if most of their students come from other places. They're only there for the time they're doing the degree anyway. Just a thought.
More...
Use your age. Use it in spades. Be aware the 20 year olds you're going to be attracting are most likely going to have serious daddy issues (conscious or unconscious). Get comfortable with that and work it. Then help them work through them. Because if you want something lasting, you've got a lot of long-term grooming to do, specifically bringing in fresh 20something into the mix in 10 years or so (assuming your outlook doesn't change). That may break the original relationship. It may not.
The primary factor working against you is that 20 somethings have LOTS more options to form relationships with peers now. However, like there's always a market for Metal music so long as there are hormonal teenage boys, there's always a market for mature guys among young men who need the daddy of their dreams.
Can they be "truly affectionate"? Fuck, yeah. But there's no guarantee how they're going to turn out as they age. People change.
The primary thing I'd throw out there for you to consider is that you may not end up with a "one true love" that lasts the rest of your life. Most people don't. Is it a bad thing if you have a series of really smoking 3-5 year relationship and then you both move on (you to another 20something with daddy issues and him to whatever)? Think shorter term and be honest with yourself. If you're not going to feel the same way when his life-clock starts blinking, okay. That's the cost of admission to the ride.
BTW, if you're near a university with a graduate program, that's a good place to look (or move near to if you're not), particularly if most of their students come from other places. They're only there for the time they're doing the degree anyway. Just a thought.
19
What the fuck is this thing about Daddy Hunt? It was Silverdaddies.com that put the older generation on the internet map ten years ago and DH came along last year after seeing there was a nitch market they could develop and then sell to the millionaires who own Gay.com.
As a life-long (from childhood) affectionado of silver hair, bald heads and wrinkles - and with a husband who is 30 years my senion with whom I've been in a 28 year relationship with, it pains me to see a complete amateur in this area - Dan Savage - rendering advice on something he doesn't know shit about.
Dan, think of it this way. In a sense, young guys who are TRULY ape-shit about older men translates to your speciality like a kink. It goes well, far beyond that with older-younger relationships. It's truly transcends mere kink into something more akin to biology. Young guys who go for older men fall into two classes:
1. Luggage lifters from Rentboy.com
2. The real deal
Please try and pay attention. You're not getting any younger, yourself.
As a life-long (from childhood) affectionado of silver hair, bald heads and wrinkles - and with a husband who is 30 years my senion with whom I've been in a 28 year relationship with, it pains me to see a complete amateur in this area - Dan Savage - rendering advice on something he doesn't know shit about.
Dan, think of it this way. In a sense, young guys who are TRULY ape-shit about older men translates to your speciality like a kink. It goes well, far beyond that with older-younger relationships. It's truly transcends mere kink into something more akin to biology. Young guys who go for older men fall into two classes:
1. Luggage lifters from Rentboy.com
2. The real deal
Please try and pay attention. You're not getting any younger, yourself.
20
I can't help but imagine what my reaction would be to a straight man aged almost 60 who goes on and on that he only likes women in their 20s but doesn't want a sugar daddy scenario nor admits that that's the easiest route. I think it'd be something like, "Grow the fuck up and get the fuck over it."
21
You write like you're worried that you'll kick the bucket before you can finish your sentence, AGAY. Slow down and enjoy the time you have left, and you'll wind up with more of it to enjoy. Anxiety will kill you.
22
Such limited attractions are so sad, IMO. I have two of my friends in this situation. Not a problem when you're young and hot too, but as they've aged it's becomes an issue. One is in his early 60's now. He is only attracted to guys 15-25, so few that age find his current age attractive, regardless of the great shape he is in. Another is only into the same (approx: young, slim, girlish) but only if they are top. Both have been single and lonely for as long as I have known them. It breaks my heart to see them trapped in such limitations that will likely leave them forever in a state of longing. I don't know the answer, as there is no accounting for taste, and as Dan has often said, you can't help what turns you on. Makes me even more thankful that I have incredibly broad taste in men, and I found my sweetie long ago.
23
Here is my analysis.
I think its more natural for a younger person to be attracted to an older one, and it is mainly American cultural norms that create a perverted state of extreme equi-agism. (In the same way that sexual dimorphism has been outlawed.)
Think about it...in nature, before vaccines and kidney transplants...if you saw a member of your species who was twice as old as the average, your reptile brain would think...nice genes!
See...its all the Clerks who are wrong.
I think its more natural for a younger person to be attracted to an older one, and it is mainly American cultural norms that create a perverted state of extreme equi-agism. (In the same way that sexual dimorphism has been outlawed.)
Think about it...in nature, before vaccines and kidney transplants...if you saw a member of your species who was twice as old as the average, your reptile brain would think...nice genes!
See...its all the Clerks who are wrong.
24
Oh, Dan... why'd you have to go and post something from "Mame"? Especially in this case, since that movie really demonstrates the LIMITATIONS of what Vaseline on the lens can do.
25
I'm going to make a guess that the reason AGAY is attracted to guys in their 20's is because that's the age of his trauma of the de-gaying he went through. people who are molested at a certain age tend to molest children who are the same age. You don't need to be Freud to see the implications here. Maybe AGAY should look at his attractions from this angle. It might help see past that age.
26
Wow. Unfortunately half my Wednesday got pushed into Thursday and my usual Thursday writing just finished, which gives me too little time to address this properly. All I can really say now is that I completely understand about the vile Straightening attempt, and strongly wish that had not happened to you. As for your question, I've been on your side of such an age divide. I really wish I had the time now to go into this, but that might not happen for a good 19-20 hours.
For now I'll close with a line attributed, I believe, to Oscar Wilde's close friend Ada Leverson (a.k.a. "Sphinx"):
We all want love, but which of us can give it?
For now I'll close with a line attributed, I believe, to Oscar Wilde's close friend Ada Leverson (a.k.a. "Sphinx"):
We all want love, but which of us can give it?
27
@20 wins the thread.
AGAY isn't special, he's basically every chronically lonely single male over the age of 29, gay or straight.
(and yes, every last one of them thinks they're a star in some sort of Xtreme Sport, too)
AGAY isn't special, he's basically every chronically lonely single male over the age of 29, gay or straight.
(and yes, every last one of them thinks they're a star in some sort of Xtreme Sport, too)
28
I've a close friend that screwed me when I was 17- he was 24. As he has aged, he still wants to screw only the 17-24yo age group. Now he is 63, 100+ pounds overweight, still going after 20-somethings, and telling me that 'all they want is my $'s- WTF?!'. Of course they only want you for your $'s- what else is there to want about you anyway?
Guys that can only lust after relative babies are a pitiable lot. Messed up in the head I may be, but at least my attractions have aged with me.
Guys that can only lust after relative babies are a pitiable lot. Messed up in the head I may be, but at least my attractions have aged with me.
29
Dan, I loved watching the clip from Mame! I remember seeing it in the theater in '74 when I was a little girl. I loved (still do) musicals and I wanted to be Mame in that show and have all those people singing to me and treating me like I was something special. We bought the soundtrack and I listened to it over and over just as I did music from other musicals. All the words came back to me as I watched this. Thanks for the trip down memory lane.
30
We've got some things in common, AGAY. I'm single too, up into middle age, and have far less dating experience than most. I also find myself most strongly attracted to 20-somethings. Different reasons, but that's neither here nor there. Different gangplanks, same boat. Sorry about your Straightening mindfuck. I'm glad you survived.
I think your dating stock has got to be pretty high. You're super fit, outdoorsy as hell, and secure. I say you're ripe for the picking. Yes, there are a whole lot more silver foxes out to snare youthful perfection than there are young folks into dudes old enough to have cucked their grampas. But they do exist. They're not rare. And they're not too hard to find.
Be open, look for dudes among the outdoorsy super fit community, and I bet your time will come.
PS--I found, after an embarrassingly long period of heartbreak-imposed celibacy, that my own personal dating stock lept a significant notch or two once I went to Amsterdam and paid a nice friendly sex worker to break that losing/loser streak.
(Thanks Sofia)
Anyhow, good luck and stay positive.
I think your dating stock has got to be pretty high. You're super fit, outdoorsy as hell, and secure. I say you're ripe for the picking. Yes, there are a whole lot more silver foxes out to snare youthful perfection than there are young folks into dudes old enough to have cucked their grampas. But they do exist. They're not rare. And they're not too hard to find.
Be open, look for dudes among the outdoorsy super fit community, and I bet your time will come.
PS--I found, after an embarrassingly long period of heartbreak-imposed celibacy, that my own personal dating stock lept a significant notch or two once I went to Amsterdam and paid a nice friendly sex worker to break that losing/loser streak.
(Thanks Sofia)
Anyhow, good luck and stay positive.
31
PPS--Age really does mean a lot less now than it did then. I'm encountering a great deal more couples with significant age gaps these days than I ever have.
32
By the way, Dan, who were you referring to as beneficiary of the Vaseline soaked lens? Lucy, Robert Preston, or the animal cruelty glorifying bdsm costumes?
33
RebeccaB:
That wasn't exactly the point. While we gays do love our musical theater, most of us know that Lucille Ball was horribly miscast (not to mention old, hence the vaseline-smeared lens remark) in the film version of the musical, where she was replacing the stage version's far superior Angela Lansbury.
The_Max:
Robert Preston was totally doable up to the day he died. I point to Victor/Victoria as proof.
That wasn't exactly the point. While we gays do love our musical theater, most of us know that Lucille Ball was horribly miscast (not to mention old, hence the vaseline-smeared lens remark) in the film version of the musical, where she was replacing the stage version's far superior Angela Lansbury.
The_Max:
Robert Preston was totally doable up to the day he died. I point to Victor/Victoria as proof.
34
Dear LW,
I met once a guy who fell only for old men. He was 27 at that time and in a relationship with a man 82 years old. I had asked him: he was not attracted to young men. There is a rare chance to find somebody like him. I think it is wonderful that you know who you are. All the best
I met once a guy who fell only for old men. He was 27 at that time and in a relationship with a man 82 years old. I had asked him: he was not attracted to young men. There is a rare chance to find somebody like him. I think it is wonderful that you know who you are. All the best
35
Also try silverdaddies.com
There are plenty of gay male gerontophiles in their 20s. Sure, there are not enough to satisfy all the guys 50+ that would like to bone them. But that's life. Don't give up hope.
There are plenty of gay male gerontophiles in their 20s. Sure, there are not enough to satisfy all the guys 50+ that would like to bone them. But that's life. Don't give up hope.
36
I really wish women weren't fed a line of horseshit about men from birth. Men are hardwired to like the young as sex partners. At least gay men are men themselves, so they have more of a clue. All I can say is that I wish I were higher up on the Kinsey scale, and that while it's wrong to enjoy the suffering brought on by an accident of a person's birth, letters like this one give me a perverse pleasure.
The silly thing is the dude thinks his obsession is brought on by his straightening process, when in reality he's just like every other guy. The horrible ending to Billy's Hollywood Screen Kiss really opened my eyes to that.
The silly thing is the dude thinks his obsession is brought on by his straightening process, when in reality he's just like every other guy. The horrible ending to Billy's Hollywood Screen Kiss really opened my eyes to that.
37
Sad and pathetic. But the two are unrelated.
Sad: Your straightening experience. I am so sorry you had to go through that, and hope you can take some solace in the fact that your suffering and experience are being replicated less and less among those who follow you. I think the monsters who perpetuated such wrongs ought to be dug out of whatever retirement homes they are at and prosecuted like nazi war criminals.
Pathetic: Your emotionally stunted sexual attraction. Get some counseling for your arrested development if you cannot get over it yourself. It's perfectly normally to be attracted to 20 somethings all of your life - but it is not normal to obsess yourself into not being satisfied with anything else or being able to form a romantic loving attachment with someone outside that age range. You have oversexualized your ability to love, and reinforced that with internal rationalizations about how its due to your straightening experience and this and that and blah blah blah. You have wasted your life pursuing fool's gold. Either learn how to do it more effectively (i.e. have lots of money and spend it appropriately using fetish sites) or take a serious stab at getting some help to let you learn how to really love someone and how to be in a relationship.
I wish you the best of luck. But I agree with @17. If you wouldn't date and fall in love with you, how can you expect anyone else to?
Sad: Your straightening experience. I am so sorry you had to go through that, and hope you can take some solace in the fact that your suffering and experience are being replicated less and less among those who follow you. I think the monsters who perpetuated such wrongs ought to be dug out of whatever retirement homes they are at and prosecuted like nazi war criminals.
Pathetic: Your emotionally stunted sexual attraction. Get some counseling for your arrested development if you cannot get over it yourself. It's perfectly normally to be attracted to 20 somethings all of your life - but it is not normal to obsess yourself into not being satisfied with anything else or being able to form a romantic loving attachment with someone outside that age range. You have oversexualized your ability to love, and reinforced that with internal rationalizations about how its due to your straightening experience and this and that and blah blah blah. You have wasted your life pursuing fool's gold. Either learn how to do it more effectively (i.e. have lots of money and spend it appropriately using fetish sites) or take a serious stab at getting some help to let you learn how to really love someone and how to be in a relationship.
I wish you the best of luck. But I agree with @17. If you wouldn't date and fall in love with you, how can you expect anyone else to?
38
I'm 51, and I have 20 somethings hitting on my regularly enough for me to be aware of it, and I most definitely was never an extreme sports athlete. Nor am I rich.
I'm a bit of the reverse of AGAY, though, I've always been attracted to older men - men in their 30's when I was a teen, and it tracked up until it evened out around 45.
One thing that was only touched on above - yes, there are plenty of younger men looking for older Daddy types (or Master types, if one is into that sort of thing.) But the older man has to behave as though he IS a daddy type, not an arrested adolescent longing for his lost youth.
One of the things older men and women bring to their relationships is precisely that life experience. Embrace it, own it, cherish it, and work it.
Young people value maturity are looking for maturity, not immaturity in an aging package.
So, if it's appropriate and necessary advice, grow up. Not "grow up and look for men your own age" but rather "grow up and BE a man your own age, and look for men who value that, whatever age they may be."
I'm a bit of the reverse of AGAY, though, I've always been attracted to older men - men in their 30's when I was a teen, and it tracked up until it evened out around 45.
One thing that was only touched on above - yes, there are plenty of younger men looking for older Daddy types (or Master types, if one is into that sort of thing.) But the older man has to behave as though he IS a daddy type, not an arrested adolescent longing for his lost youth.
One of the things older men and women bring to their relationships is precisely that life experience. Embrace it, own it, cherish it, and work it.
Young people value maturity are looking for maturity, not immaturity in an aging package.
So, if it's appropriate and necessary advice, grow up. Not "grow up and look for men your own age" but rather "grow up and BE a man your own age, and look for men who value that, whatever age they may be."
39
@38. It started evening out for me at around 55. From there, everyone 55 and up is hot. Um, I mean, almost everyone.
41
I am in my mid 40's and my partner is 21. We love each other very much, we've been together for 3 years - that's right, since he was legal! - and I'm definitely not a sugar daddy. It can happen if you're open to it.
42
"if YOU won't date a guy like you, why the HELL would any one else. "
Exactly, I'm in the same boat as this guy, although I'm much younger. Basically most olde(er) gays are celibate or commit suicide.
Exactly, I'm in the same boat as this guy, although I'm much younger. Basically most olde(er) gays are celibate or commit suicide.
43
You know the funny thing? Guys my age (mid-forties), they generally want younger women, but I am absolutely inundated with lithe, horny guys in their early twenties looking to be dominated by an older woman. Like three a day. I had to put a fuck off note in my profile to keep them away. Young, dumb and full of cum.
The world is a funny place.
The world is a funny place.
45
I need a picture of this guy in order to determine his actual desirability. His exercise record in the past may be good, and he might be a really hot bear grandpa. But, some guys overestimate their body/face.
But, 6'4" and fit? Many guys would totally go for that. Especially first relationships.
But, 6'4" and fit? Many guys would totally go for that. Especially first relationships.
46
@33 I got "the point," Dan's point. That wasn't why I made this comment. "My point" in making the comment was simply my reaction to this blast from the past, my past. And by the way, older women can be beautiful too, and totally doable up to the day they die also.
47
marrena@43: werd. it's amazing, isn't it? the cougar hunters are the most aggressive men on the dating sites.
48
I have a friend who, every since he came out (before he was 18) has only been attracted to older guys, sometimes as young as their 40s but usually in their 60s. His (now former) roommates assumed it was a sugar daddy thing, but when they checked his porn on his computer, it was all older guys in their 60s+. He's now married to a guy who is about 65. So yeah, it can happen, but it's rare.
49
What Lymis said (@38).
I'm 60 and have the 18-25yo guys after me all the time. I am generally not attracted to them, and I'm certainly not into the drama that I expect with them, so I now pre-reject them in my profile text. Some still hit on me.
@19, I think there is a third type of daddy chaser: guys looking for experience. We (should) have no expectations of a LTR with the vast majority of young ones. They don't have to worry about getting emotionally invested with us. We are disposable to them. There is no risk to them of being rejected by a peer and having it splashed all over twitter. Except for the possibility of drama, I'd be happy to a mentor, so I limit my interactions with them to online chatting.
I have always been attracted to the 40ish dad types. I'm happy to say that I am also attracted to guys from 35 - 65yo, and I'm fine with being the older man (in his eyes) to my 50yo BF.
I have met and played with a 21yo guy who is exceptionally mature, and seriously into older guys. He was on the rebound from a 3 year relationship with a 45yo guy, and is now seeing a 40somthing guy.
So, AGAY, if you are willing to play catch and release, there is fun to be had with young guys, but you have to be what they are looking for. There will soon come a time when that will not be an option, so I hope you will give older guys a chance.
I'm 60 and have the 18-25yo guys after me all the time. I am generally not attracted to them, and I'm certainly not into the drama that I expect with them, so I now pre-reject them in my profile text. Some still hit on me.
@19, I think there is a third type of daddy chaser: guys looking for experience. We (should) have no expectations of a LTR with the vast majority of young ones. They don't have to worry about getting emotionally invested with us. We are disposable to them. There is no risk to them of being rejected by a peer and having it splashed all over twitter. Except for the possibility of drama, I'd be happy to a mentor, so I limit my interactions with them to online chatting.
I have always been attracted to the 40ish dad types. I'm happy to say that I am also attracted to guys from 35 - 65yo, and I'm fine with being the older man (in his eyes) to my 50yo BF.
I have met and played with a 21yo guy who is exceptionally mature, and seriously into older guys. He was on the rebound from a 3 year relationship with a 45yo guy, and is now seeing a 40somthing guy.
So, AGAY, if you are willing to play catch and release, there is fun to be had with young guys, but you have to be what they are looking for. There will soon come a time when that will not be an option, so I hope you will give older guys a chance.
50
I'm a 23 year old queer man and I'm only attracted to much older men (mid 40s to early 60s). We do exist. It isn't about money. It isn't about unresolved daddy issues (ironic to hear gay men float that hypothesis, given the history of queer repression). I just find them attractive in a raw primal way.
LW, check out silverdaddies.com. I think it's a better option than the site Dan posted.
LW, check out silverdaddies.com. I think it's a better option than the site Dan posted.
51
@13, actually you're right.
please remain
while you're here
at least you're doing nothing
to keep the world from changing
which would end
if I ever convinced you of anything
So roam free
gentle troll
go on searching for butt!
and the fannies of others
you may fly again
I'm done
I'm gone
I've won... (or have I?) ;-)
please remain
while you're here
at least you're doing nothing
to keep the world from changing
which would end
if I ever convinced you of anything
So roam free
gentle troll
go on searching for butt!
and the fannies of others
you may fly again
I'm done
I'm gone
I've won... (or have I?) ;-)
52
@43/44, you're probably right. But don't forget that it isn't their fault. None of the features you mention was conscioulsy chosen...
53
Interesting note: AGAY used the word "ain't" correctly. It's a contraction of "am" and "not." [/legit reason to be in a person's camp]
54
Possibly in a fair world AGAY would be compensated for the abuse he underwent in the form of a string of twentysomethings, each more gorgeous than the last, all of whom would fall deeply in love with him and remain so after being dumped for turning thirty.
But before I could come to any conclusion about what he ought to do or how good his chances are of being able to keep what he might find, I'd really want to know how he got from 30 to 58. Also, the despair really saddens me.
But before I could come to any conclusion about what he ought to do or how good his chances are of being able to keep what he might find, I'd really want to know how he got from 30 to 58. Also, the despair really saddens me.
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