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Thursday, December 15, 2011

Savage Love SL Letter of the Day: Build That Firewall

Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 3:27 PM

I am a 25-year-old gay man and I consider myself to be very gay-positive and self-accepting. Although I have always accepted my homosexuality and never really felt bad about it, recently I have been going through a hard time psychologically because I'm exposing myself to very graphic homophobic online content. There are blogs, discussion forums, online groups, websites that cater to gay men who like to be abused and degraded by "straight" men. These groups and websites have pictures and content that is extremely dehumanizing and degrading. Some people write extensively about how gay people are inferior and should be treated like animals or worse, and how all gay rights should be rolled back.

I am very disturbed because I am actually aroused by the pictures and content that shows supposedly straight-men degrading gay men. I have spent hours reading these homophobic posts and staring at graphic homophobic pictures and I always come away feeling disturbed, insecure, and unhappy. But when I'm horny I go right back to these websites. The worst feeling comes from knowing that a lot of those people don't seem to recognize it as just a fantasy but instead whole-heartedly believe in the homophobic views they express.

This is a new thing for me. I was never disturbed by BDSM-type fantasies or BDSM porn as it never seemed to be related to homophobia at all. But this type of dom/sub thing is very disturbing as people don't seem to be "just playing" and it is playing with a real-world violent and powerful hate-ideology that is so prevalent in our country. Is it OK for me to just view this as another harmless fantasy or is this something I need to control or get help dealing with? Secondly, are people who contribute, participate and produce such gay-bashing type of sexualized content just indulging in a version of acceptable BDSM/kink or is it dangerous to use a prevalent hate ideology in sex play?

Not An Inferior Faggot

P.S. Examples of these websites are here, here, and here.

My response after the jump...

······················

You're not inferior, NAIF, and you're not alone.

In fact, you have lots of horny soul mates out there—think of strong feminists with rape fantasies; think of proud Jewish guys with Nazi fetishes; think of empowered African-Americans who get off on Master/slave role-play scenes. And think of all the gay men out there turned on by vaguely-threatening, hetero-associated male archetypes. Consider the cliche gay male sex symbols: truckers, skinheads, Marines, cops, fireman, gangbangers—not exactly people or professions historically associated with tolerance!

A person can safely explore degrading fantasies—even fantasies rooted in "hate ideologies"—so long as he/she is capable of compartmentalizing this stuff. Basically you have to build a firewall between your fantasies and your self-esteem. (And between your fantasies and your politics!) Once you do that, NAIF, you'll be able to enjoy your "straight men abusing fags" fantasies without feeling so devastated immediately after you come. (And until you do that, NAIF, avoid these sites as much as possible.) In fact, successfully building that firewall can leave you feeling stronger and more empowered for having these fantasies. Call it the bottom's paradox: a D/s sub who takes ownership of his or her desires is in control, not being controlled, regardless of how things might appear to a casual or misinformed observer.

But it doesn't sound like you've been able to build that firewall yet, NAIF, due to feelings of shame rooted in a perceived disconnect between the person you know yourself to be—a proud gay man—and the degradation scenarios that make your dick hard. But there is no disconnect, NAIF. You don't really hate yourself anymore than the feminist with rape fantasies really wants to be raped. It might help if you reminded yourself of that before, during, and after you rub one out—it also might help if a sex-positive counselor reminded you of that during some regular sessions over a period of months.

You know what else might help? Finding a nice, out, proud gay man who gets off on this shit too, NAIF, a guy who wants to explore these fantasies with you in realtime safely, respectfully, and consensually. Cuddling immediately after hot, crazy, kinky D/s sex with the "straight" guy who five minutes ago was "degrading" you for being a "worthless faggot"—and then getting dressed and going out for some fro-yo and chatting about Glee or whatever the hell young gay men are doing these days after sex—would go a long way toward helping you see your fantasies as something positive, NAIF, e.g. as something that was bringing intimacy, companionship, and connection into your life, not regret and doubt and self-recrimination.

But don't start exploring your fantasies with a boyfriend until that firewall is well under construction, NAIF.

Comments (38) RSS

Oldest First Unregistered On Registered On Add a comment

A firewall! That is a great metaphor for that separation that should be between some things: church & state, fantasy (what turns you on) & where it departs from reality (as NAIF is recognizing). Go out & play - but, make sure your firewall is safely in place.

Posted by Eva Hopkins

on December 15, 2011 at 3:46 PM

The ultimate Ego booster for the self hating Gay man can be seen at every turn. It's the desire for a "straight" man. To be accepted by that which the Gay man is not. A fantasy is fine, we all have them. But most Gay men don't seem able to "compartmentalize" the fantasy of conquering the "straight" man.

Posted by Sargon Bighorn on December 15, 2011 at 3:47 PM

You should really consider using OpenBSD for your firewall software. I know Cisco and Juniper are the standards, but I think you'd be really impressed by the quality of the network stack in OpenBSD and the wide availability of L2/L3 tools.

Posted by Swearengen on December 15, 2011 at 4:01 PM

LW shouldn't feel bad. Jacking off gay to homophobia recast as gay porn seems like the ultimate in re-appropriation.

Posted by seandr on December 15, 2011 at 4:01 PM

Pornography is harmful.
Healthy people don't need pornography.
Healthy people don't consume pornography.

Posted by AnyQuestions? on December 15, 2011 at 4:01 PM

@5--Intolerance is harmful. Healthy people don't need intolerance. Healthy people don't consume intolerance. Or dish it out.

Posted by ankylosaur on December 15, 2011 at 4:05 PM

Healthy people view pornography, @5. Only a nutjob eats the shit.

Posted by Dan Savage on December 15, 2011 at 4:05 PM

I agree 100%. I am into a bizarre fantasy, where women eat other women alive. I used to hate myself for it but now embrace it, and it has DEFINITELY helped my self confidence.

Posted by www.aryion.com on December 15, 2011 at 4:15 PM

@2: I went through a lesbian fetish when I was younger, and even managed to fuck a few lesbians. That didn't make me a self-hating straight man.

Sometimes a dude just wants a challenge. Fucking someone who (at least theoretically) categorically excluded you as a sexual possibility can be quite the turn-on.

Posted by I Hate Screen Names on December 15, 2011 at 4:20 PM

@8, if you're referring to cunnilingus, then your fantasy is rather trivial. If you're referring to cannibalism, as long as you're not harming anyone, I say go on. There are, after all, many disgusting, harmful practices (like boxing or American football) that are accepted by society.

Posted by ankylosaur on December 15, 2011 at 4:21 PM

@4, I agree with you in principle, though I can understand the LW's confusion, if he doesn't get Dan's firewall up and running. He might be dismayed to find himself being turned on by reading real reports of homophobia (like the ones Dan sometimes posts here), not simply imaginary items in someone's fantasy blog. Like a BDSMer who felt a little turned on by the original Abu Ghraib photos, it would be a somewhat disturbing situation.

Posted by ankylosaur on December 15, 2011 at 4:25 PM

OMG. It's all so clear now, I'm shocked I didn't realize it sooner-- Our unregistered troll has a 'straight-degrading-the-gay' fetish. This is porn for him, as he types w/ one hand.

Now I just feel so, so... used.

Posted by Some Old Nobodaddy Logged In on December 15, 2011 at 4:27 PM

@5: Do you mean "healthy" in the sense that psychological and medical professionals use the term, or in the sense that repressed religious losers with teeny penises use it?

Posted by seandr on December 15, 2011 at 4:30 PM

Dan, do you ever feel like you get a lot of letters that have been generated by a search-replace algorithm in order to trick you into taking positions which reveal a sexual double standard?

Posted by Fistique on December 15, 2011 at 5:15 PM

@5 By that logic there are virtually no healthy men since the number of men in the US who've never used pornography is vanishingly small.

Posted by Noadi

on December 15, 2011 at 5:20 PM

If this is the only way NAIF finds satisfaction, I might wait until the firewall is complete and fully functioning, but otherwise, spot on.

Posted by vennominon on December 15, 2011 at 6:06 PM

Swearengen: Fess up- you claimed about a week or so back that you cannot stand to read any of Dan's posts. Yet, once again, there you are in among the first five comments for one of Dan's posts. What gives, man? Spill yer dirty little secret right here, for all of us to see. Or just go away and be useless somewhere else.

Posted by Dr_Awesome on December 15, 2011 at 6:16 PM

I'm still trying to understand how the example websites are necessarily kinky. The third example, sure, but the first two? Really?

Posted by riot gorl on December 15, 2011 at 6:31 PM

Compartmentalizing involves a bit of repressing. Long-term, NAIF might find it interesting to engage this paradox intellectually or emotionally--like, reading/taking a class or grouptalk therapy that covers the ways human beings deal with power. It could increase his comfort level with the whole thing.

Posted by East Egg on December 15, 2011 at 7:10 PM

@5, who claims, "healthy people don't consume pornography":

Hmm, in that case, I don't want to be healthy.

And I'm going to go out on a somewhat misogynistic limb here and assume that you're female, which just makes me glad I'm gay. The number of gay men who expect their partners not to consume any pornography can probably be counted on one hand.

Posted by dlauri

on December 15, 2011 at 7:54 PM

I don't mean to burst anyone's bubble, but I don't think anyone outside of those who routinely jerk it to those websites would ever think that any of those things we posted by honest to god hot, homophobic straight guys. Way too much Tim Tebow.

Posted by sratdaddy on December 15, 2011 at 9:45 PM

God, how times have changed. I was vilified because I simply liked to fuck younger men. Stand up tall, Mrs. Robinson....

Posted by Mrs. Robinson on December 15, 2011 at 10:49 PM

I think it might help if he started reading sex stories rather than going to interactive websites that involve actual douche bags. He can get the same jollies without feeling like there is a real person there afterward continuing to act like a jerk.

Try Asstr.org They have a nigh infinite selection of (free and non ad supported) porn stories of every conceivable description. Asstr stands for Alt.sex.stories.text.repository. It is a descendant of the earliest text based part of the internet. They support themselves wikipedia style and have a truly enormous and comprehensive selection of sex stories as they have appeared on the net.

Asstr won't satisfy your need for images, but you sound story oriented anyway. What it will do is make it easier to wall off the fantasy from the reality.

As an aside, is there anything gayer than a "straight" man sexually humiliating a gay man? I mean seriously, any "straight" men out there who are into this are just as gay as you are.

Posted by Learned Hand on December 16, 2011 at 1:18 AM

@Learned Hand, who wrote:

As an aside, is there anything gayer than a "straight" man sexually humiliating a gay man? I mean seriously, any "straight" men out there who are into this are just as gay as you are.

Good point. Very good point, actually. I hope NAIF will ponder that.

Posted by ankylosaur on December 16, 2011 at 2:50 AM

Geez, human beings are so complicated.

Posted by Vince on December 16, 2011 at 3:45 AM

Messrs Ank/Hand - Maybe a straight man being sexually humiliated by a gay man and getting off on it?

The way you two have it around is dangerously close to giving me serious icks. I think that's actually closer to an acceptable form of rape than a turn on. Additionally, presenting it as a turn on in one respect is like coals to Newcastle, in that it just provides straight-chasers with unnecessary encouragement. They have more than enough as is.

Posted by vennominon on December 16, 2011 at 5:52 AM

Additionally, having lost sleep over this letter, I fear for NAIF's politics. What if he were to become seriously infatuated with one of the worse Republican candidates for President?

Posted by vennominon on December 16, 2011 at 6:04 AM

Definitely an interesting letter and response. As someone who's been turned on by BDSM since I hit puberty, long before I had viewed any in media, I can sympathize. Especially after having vocal arguments with militant feminists who think it's NEVER okay to tie up and abuse a woman, even with consent. I love strong women; I think every woman out there is as good or better a person than me, and I think physical or emotional abuse has no place in a relationship. That doesn't mean I don't want to hogtie and do some truly obscene things to them, as long as they want me to.

Posted by NateMan on December 16, 2011 at 6:17 AM

#21 for the win. Out of all the 'straight' men out there who are posting degrading stuff about using faggots, .1% may actually be straight.

There's an audience for it. And being gay-for-pay-for pay is a good way to pay the mortgage. Or so I've heard.

Posted by LogopolisMike

on December 16, 2011 at 7:54 AM

Compartmentalizing and politics... I wonder if this is on the same spectrum as the "straight" conservative politicians who sneak out for homosexual sexual encounters.

Posted by DRF on December 16, 2011 at 8:09 AM

I tried out Fet Life for about a month and just got to the point where I realized I was in waaaaaaayyyy over my head. Then is browsed Collarme and realized I need an entire new wardrope and props. Maybe I needed a firewall. Is there an Apple OS 10.7.2 version for the Mac?

Posted by Ray_Harwick on December 16, 2011 at 9:56 AM

@26, it is indeed closer to rape than to consesual sex, as you say. But the point is that most homophobes would be very dismayed by the idea that they might be attracted by the idea of gay rape -- which should give them pause, since it makes clear that at least part of the desire to humiliate gays comes from the fear, nay, the nagging suspicion that one is gay (see all those pseudoissues concerning contagion). That should give them pause.

Posted by ankylosaur on December 16, 2011 at 10:27 AM

Mr Ank - There are plenty of scripted roles that let the humiliator retain a "straight"
persona.

I think what's annoying here is that we need a new orientation for creeps of that sort. I don't want them under my gay umbrella, and I won't welcome those who eventually come out until they meet Dr Schlessinger's standard for True Repentance (and perhaps just a little beyond).

Posted by vennominon on December 16, 2011 at 5:12 PM

What disappointing web site examples ...

Posted by ravished on December 16, 2011 at 7:52 PM

@33(MrV), I'm not saying that they are gay, necessarily. I'm saying they are afraid they are gay, which is why they have to overcompensate by playing the straightest role in such games they can find.

Some of them might even be gay; but the fear of gayness (see again the pseudoissues relating to contagion; or, also, the number of people writing Dan letters because they don't know if X or Y in a friend's or boyfriend's behavior indicates gayness or not) is by itself sufficient.

Posted by ankylosaur on December 17, 2011 at 2:33 PM

@33(MrV), or, to put it differently: it's not that we need a new sexual orientation for the creeps; it's that their creepiness comes often/partially from their fear that they will
need said orientation. And that, regardless of whether or not this fear is justified. Their being gay or straight is immaterial; the fear alone is sufficient.

Posted by ankylosaur on December 17, 2011 at 2:50 PM

Isn't it simpler to think that NAIF gets off, not so much on the exaggerated masculinity, but on the public evaluation of his partner *solely from* NAIF's validation of him?

It seems Dan's analysis can be summed as: NAIF can neither bare to be seen decorating the kind of sexy hooligan he's really attracted to, nor validate someone role-blurred he simply isn't attracted to. Saying instead NAIF gets off on the public evaluation of his partner solely from NAIF's validation seems a lot simpler than Dan's explanation, which I can't even say I understand. *Why* is a firewall necessary?

No, framing his dilemma that way isn't good for identity politics, but that doesn't mean NAIF isn't entitled to what makes him happy, which the more convoluted explanation seems to handicap. (Priority going to securing your own oxygen on the crashing plane before you consider helping anyone else's, and all that.)

Posted by Mike Leung on December 17, 2011 at 8:09 PM

Mr Ank - Nah, I still want a new orientation for them. Even the ones to whom you refer in #35 have forfeited their right to a gay card.

Posted by vennominon on December 18, 2011 at 3:51 PM