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News & ArtsMonday, December 12, 2011
Health Capitalism and Thinness
Posted by Charles Mudede on Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 3:27 PM
True, being thin is healthier than being overweight. But the near universal domination of thin models in American magazines has nothing to do with health and everything to do with the unattainable. The coupling of thinness and the unattainable is only accidental. If the unattainable happened to be fatness, which in earlier societies was certainly the case, then the profit-driven media/fashion complex would be dominated by people in that condition.
2
Am I totally mistaken, or did I read several articles last year on "fattening camps" in Ghana or thereabouts?
3
Mr Mudede, you missed the target. It's NOT about thin and unattainable, countless young girls get thin thin thin every year, some even die from it. They do attain thinness. It's about Thin and selling clothes and such. And it's not accidental. It's planned and constructed and executed with perfect timing and thought. In fact whole magazines are devoted to it, that's no accident.
4
I agree with this idea as a broader point, but in this particular case I assume you're talking about fashion models when I say that most designers would tell you it has less to do with unattainability; but simply that they prefer models to be extremely thin and tall because clothes hang better on tall, thin bodies. You may disagree, but you're not a clothing designer.
5
One of your fellow writers at the Stranger made the following observation in his book "skipping towards gomorrah".
"Beauty ideals are not and have never been democratic... The reason certain traits become beauty ideals is precisely because of their rarity or the difficulty the average person has in achieving them."
Just as when a tan meant you had to work outside in the elements a pale or pale as possible complexion was the beauty ideal. And when food was scarce made rubinesque more than a stunning silhouette. Today high fashion sells a dream that finds my live life hot, sweaty, and dirty philosophy as unusual.
"Beauty ideals are not and have never been democratic... The reason certain traits become beauty ideals is precisely because of their rarity or the difficulty the average person has in achieving them."
Just as when a tan meant you had to work outside in the elements a pale or pale as possible complexion was the beauty ideal. And when food was scarce made rubinesque more than a stunning silhouette. Today high fashion sells a dream that finds my live life hot, sweaty, and dirty philosophy as unusual.
6
So, why are you telling us?
It's been the Agenda Driven fashionistas who have tried to remake the female body into that of a 10 year old boy to satisfy the unisex demands of the marketplace and the global social ethic.
It's been the Agenda Driven fashionistas who have tried to remake the female body into that of a 10 year old boy to satisfy the unisex demands of the marketplace and the global social ethic.
7
So if this is due to capitalism, shouldn't Mudede, the Marxist, be opposed to it?
@4,
That doesn't explain why models weren't so thin in the past (designers only just realized a couple decades ago that clothes "hang better" on skinny models?), why they go out of their way to employ dangerously underweight models, or why they photoshop the crap out of models who are already extremely thin.
@4,
That doesn't explain why models weren't so thin in the past (designers only just realized a couple decades ago that clothes "hang better" on skinny models?), why they go out of their way to employ dangerously underweight models, or why they photoshop the crap out of models who are already extremely thin.
9
I tend to agree with #3 and #4, because I think there is a real disconnect between what fashion designers and photographers think is beautiful and what the average hetero male thinks is beautiful (admittedly, my knowledge here is anecdotal).
I have a friend with a classic, Marilyn Monroe/Jayne Mansfield figure: hourglass shape with large breasts, large hips and a comparatively small waist. When straight men see her, they visibly start to salivate! And I have to agree--she's gorgeous. My guess is that she's a size twelve. She's never going to be on the cover of Vogue, because when men see her, they see HER, and not what she's wearing. And even if they do notice what she's wearing, it's only so they can envision it in a puddle around her ankles.
Designers want the attention to be on the clothes, not the body inside them, so they're looking for women built like coat hangers. What--you don't find coat hangers erotic? Well, neither do I. That's kind of the point. When looking at a garment on a coat hanger, I'm looking at the garment--not the coat hanger.
The problem is that far too many women confuse what the average designer wants with what the average straight man wants. My experience is that the average straight man wants a bit of flesh on the bones.
I have a friend with a classic, Marilyn Monroe/Jayne Mansfield figure: hourglass shape with large breasts, large hips and a comparatively small waist. When straight men see her, they visibly start to salivate! And I have to agree--she's gorgeous. My guess is that she's a size twelve. She's never going to be on the cover of Vogue, because when men see her, they see HER, and not what she's wearing. And even if they do notice what she's wearing, it's only so they can envision it in a puddle around her ankles.
Designers want the attention to be on the clothes, not the body inside them, so they're looking for women built like coat hangers. What--you don't find coat hangers erotic? Well, neither do I. That's kind of the point. When looking at a garment on a coat hanger, I'm looking at the garment--not the coat hanger.
The problem is that far too many women confuse what the average designer wants with what the average straight man wants. My experience is that the average straight man wants a bit of flesh on the bones.
10
Thin does NOT equal healthy: making that unscientific remark over and over doesn't make it any more true.
http://anadeath.webs.com/statistics.htm
And it's a lie that's literally killing young women (and men) -- and not just models -- you should be ashamed of yourself Muedede, instead of repeating a harmful lie, endlessly.
It's telling that you posted a "thin" model from nearly 50 years ago: the models of today are starved looking (and starved) compared to Twiggy.
Even discounting the overwhelming statistics for anorexia and bullimia, science has long ago come to the conclusion that yo-yo dieting isn't as healthy as being slightly overweight.
But why not live by your own values, Charles? Starve yourself to model thinness, and then we'll talk.
http://anadeath.webs.com/statistics.htm
And it's a lie that's literally killing young women (and men) -- and not just models -- you should be ashamed of yourself Muedede, instead of repeating a harmful lie, endlessly.
It's telling that you posted a "thin" model from nearly 50 years ago: the models of today are starved looking (and starved) compared to Twiggy.
Even discounting the overwhelming statistics for anorexia and bullimia, science has long ago come to the conclusion that yo-yo dieting isn't as healthy as being slightly overweight.
But why not live by your own values, Charles? Starve yourself to model thinness, and then we'll talk.
11
I can understand the thin for displaying clothes on high fashion runways. But what about the lingerie ads? Do you all remember the controversy over a commercial by Lane Bryant: What Mom Wouldn't Wear? It was rejected for too much cleavage, but the Victoria Secret ads on the other hand seem to have no problem getting air time. V.S. ads have plenty of cleavage on display, at least the ones I have seen. By the way, I thought the Lane Bryant ad was fine and the model very lovely.
12
Can any correlation be made between the dangers in modeling and the dangers in sports (i.e. lifelong physical damage, multiple concussions)? These are teens and adults choosing rare, difficult paths that few can follow (thus, as Charles said, "model") There are perils, and the perils will be weighed against the benefits of money, status, access to status mates, etc.
14
@10: Correct. People are healthiest at their natural weight, and there is a broad distribution of natural weights across the human population, just as there is a broad distribution of natural heights.
You are being too harsh on Charles, however. Save it for the misinformed doctors who tell everyone who doesn't have an average or below average BMI that they need to lose weight.
You are being too harsh on Charles, however. Save it for the misinformed doctors who tell everyone who doesn't have an average or below average BMI that they need to lose weight.
15
Hypocrisy much, Charles? According to Wikipedia, Twiggy was 5' 6" and 110 pounds, whereas now:
"The average model is 5"11’ and weighs 117 pounds. Most fashion models are thinner than 98% of American women."
And as for another "healthy" thin model, "If today’s mannequins were actual human women, based on theoretical body fat percentages, they would probably cease to menstruate."
But hey, Charles declares it's healthy! "At least 50,000 individuals will die as a direct result of an eating disorder. The most common behavior that will lead to an eating disorder is dieting.
· It is estimated that currently 11% of high school students have been diagnosed with an eating disorder.
§ Time Magazine reports that 80% of all children have been on a diet by the time that they have reached the fourth grade.
· 15% of young women have substantially disordered eating attitudes and behaviors.
· · 51% of 9 and 10 year old girls feel better about themselves if they are on a diet.
· 2 out of 5 women and 1 out of 5 men would trade 3 to 5 years of their life to achieve their goal body weight.
· 91% of women surveyed on a college campus had attempted to control their weight through dieting, 22% dieted "often" or "always."
· 35% of "normal dieters" progress to pathological dieting. Of those, 20-25% progress to partial or full syndrome eating disorders.
· The mortality rate for anorexia is higher than for any other psychological disorder. In fact, it’s the number one cause of death among young women.
· Five to ten percent of anorexics die within ten years of onset, 18-20 percent die within twenty years of onset, and only 50 percent report ever being cured.
· 0.5% - 3.7% of females suffer from Anorexia Nervosa in their lifetime.
· 1.1% - 4.2% of females suffer from Bulimia Nervosa in their lifetime.
· 2% - 5% of the American population experience Binge Eating Disorder. 10%-25% of all those battling anorexia will die as a direct result of the eating disorder."
http://anadeath.webs.com/statistics.htm
More...
"The average model is 5"11’ and weighs 117 pounds. Most fashion models are thinner than 98% of American women."
And as for another "healthy" thin model, "If today’s mannequins were actual human women, based on theoretical body fat percentages, they would probably cease to menstruate."
But hey, Charles declares it's healthy! "At least 50,000 individuals will die as a direct result of an eating disorder. The most common behavior that will lead to an eating disorder is dieting.
· It is estimated that currently 11% of high school students have been diagnosed with an eating disorder.
§ Time Magazine reports that 80% of all children have been on a diet by the time that they have reached the fourth grade.
· 15% of young women have substantially disordered eating attitudes and behaviors.
· · 51% of 9 and 10 year old girls feel better about themselves if they are on a diet.
· 2 out of 5 women and 1 out of 5 men would trade 3 to 5 years of their life to achieve their goal body weight.
· 91% of women surveyed on a college campus had attempted to control their weight through dieting, 22% dieted "often" or "always."
· 35% of "normal dieters" progress to pathological dieting. Of those, 20-25% progress to partial or full syndrome eating disorders.
· The mortality rate for anorexia is higher than for any other psychological disorder. In fact, it’s the number one cause of death among young women.
· Five to ten percent of anorexics die within ten years of onset, 18-20 percent die within twenty years of onset, and only 50 percent report ever being cured.
· 0.5% - 3.7% of females suffer from Anorexia Nervosa in their lifetime.
· 1.1% - 4.2% of females suffer from Bulimia Nervosa in their lifetime.
· 2% - 5% of the American population experience Binge Eating Disorder. 10%-25% of all those battling anorexia will die as a direct result of the eating disorder."
http://anadeath.webs.com/statistics.htm
16
@7 - It certainly doesn't. I don't work in fashion, but I've worked in various areas of design a long time and am just sharing what I've picked up here and there.
@9's third paragraph is pretty much what I've noticed as well.
@9's third paragraph is pretty much what I've noticed as well.
17
True, being thin is healthier than being overweight.
Charles, I'm not sure that is true. Being thin is probably healthier than being really obese, but I'm not sure it's healthier than being just somewhat overweight.
*
9: The problem is that far too many women confuse what the average designer wants with what the average straight man wants. My experience is that the average straight man wants a bit of flesh on the bones.
Clayton, that's my feeling too. Most men probably aren't into women who are fat but that doesn't mean they're into the opposite: women who are skinny. (Same thing with women. Just because women aren't into guys who are poor does that mean they want and expect guys who are rich? No.)
Charles, I'm not sure that is true. Being thin is probably healthier than being really obese, but I'm not sure it's healthier than being just somewhat overweight.
*
9: The problem is that far too many women confuse what the average designer wants with what the average straight man wants. My experience is that the average straight man wants a bit of flesh on the bones.
Clayton, that's my feeling too. Most men probably aren't into women who are fat but that doesn't mean they're into the opposite: women who are skinny. (Same thing with women. Just because women aren't into guys who are poor does that mean they want and expect guys who are rich? No.)
18
Hey, Charles if you're 5'11" and over 117 pounds, you're overweight, and unhealthy by your standards.
Okay, I'll give you 5'6" and 110...
Okay, I'll give you 5'6" and 110...
19
all ways the complaint of the fat woman , models are too thin , and we should not judge them by their weight . face it fatty , lose some weight and maybe we will fuck you , other wise stick with your dildo and ho ho's .
20
Maybe you're the sort that thinks overweight people don't deserve to be happy, but if you think being overweight ever stopped someone from getting laid, you're an idiot.
I've got to stop buying troll food at Costco, now I've got to use it all before it goes bad.
I've got to stop buying troll food at Costco, now I've got to use it all before it goes bad.
21
How about an article called "Capitalism and Obesity"? Seems more relevant to the average American. Give thin women a break.
22
Samples are under size 6 because it just costs less to make a garment with less fabric. And if that garment is unsuccessful, there is minimal financial loss - end of fucking story. All the other bluster is a pile of bullshit. Fashion is just bare-knuckle bottom line capitalism. There is no "unattainable"; successful couture and ready to wear garments have always been made (and then further altered) to the specs of pillowy rich women of all sizes.
23
@9: My experience is that the average straight man wants a bit of flesh on the bones.
Bingo. We've been told so often that these models are The Beauty Ideal that everyone just seems to accept it as fact.
In reality, the only people who think these models represent an ideal are feminists, insecure/gullible women who obsess over fashion magazines, fashion designers, and a few suggestible men who are out of touch with their sexuality and overly concerned with what others think.
Personally, I don't know a single guy who wants to fuck a stick figure. A quick survey of the porn industry (go to AEBN, for example) suggests the "ideal" woman has a nice round ass that is way bigger than anything you'd see on a fashion runway. Oh, and she also has no gag reflex.
Bingo. We've been told so often that these models are The Beauty Ideal that everyone just seems to accept it as fact.
In reality, the only people who think these models represent an ideal are feminists, insecure/gullible women who obsess over fashion magazines, fashion designers, and a few suggestible men who are out of touch with their sexuality and overly concerned with what others think.
Personally, I don't know a single guy who wants to fuck a stick figure. A quick survey of the porn industry (go to AEBN, for example) suggests the "ideal" woman has a nice round ass that is way bigger than anything you'd see on a fashion runway. Oh, and she also has no gag reflex.
24
Oh my, seandr.
It is a good thing that I have that ring, or I'd be out of luck. ;-) Being slender has never stopped me from getting laid either. Maybe some men do like slender women who have great, or so they tell me, legs? That line: I wish I was heliocase, so I could unzip your genes. Still gets a smile out of me.
Now if I was to hypothesis about sexual attraction, then I'd have to argue that a big smile and good personality is of greater importance then anyone's bunda size. Just my $0.02. Although, I'll give you mastery over the gag reflex and delight for the subject to be studied.
Take care.
It is a good thing that I have that ring, or I'd be out of luck. ;-) Being slender has never stopped me from getting laid either. Maybe some men do like slender women who have great, or so they tell me, legs? That line: I wish I was heliocase, so I could unzip your genes. Still gets a smile out of me.
Now if I was to hypothesis about sexual attraction, then I'd have to argue that a big smile and good personality is of greater importance then anyone's bunda size. Just my $0.02. Although, I'll give you mastery over the gag reflex and delight for the subject to be studied.
Take care.
26
Personally, I don't know a single guy who wants to fuck a stick figure.
Sean, I don't know any guys personally who are into really fat women either but I know they exist. Is there some reason we're all supposed to be attracted to the same body type?
Sean, I don't know any guys personally who are into really fat women either but I know they exist. Is there some reason we're all supposed to be attracted to the same body type?
27
@Seandr: sadly, it's not just shallow fashionistas who think that those images of women represent the ideal. I grew up in a liberal, feminist household that wouldn't allow Barbie, but television, magazines and kiddie comic books taught me what a woman was "supposed" to look like, anyway (go look at Betty & Veronica and tell me they're not just as fucked up as a Barbie doll). I spent much of my adolescence and early adulthood feeling fat and ugly, even when I was dangerously thin due to an eating disorder. In fact, even as a full-grown woman I still can't look in a mirror without judging myself against the ideal I grew up with. I'm no fashionista, and I'm not unique. I thought all women were supposed to have a 24" waist, protruding pelvic bones and thighs that don't meet in the middle, because these were the kinds of women I saw in the media when I formed my mental image of what a woman looks like. What adult women think of these images is not as important as what adolescent girls think of them. Even less important is what Charles fucking Mudede thinks of them. Bleargh.
28
@24, @26: Sorry, I screwed that up, please allow me to correct:
If porn is any measure of men's taste, then every type of female body has a solid fan base.
If porn is any measure of men's taste, then every type of female body has a solid fan base.
30
Jesus Christ...every so often I forget why I stopped reading Mudede's posts. Then I allow myself to read stuff like the tripe he posted today, and I am reminded: oh. Right. Charles believes the air-headed poetry of social theory actually has some bearing on the reality the rest of us inhabit. He dresses his prejudices in its fancy verbiage and imagines he has thus conveyed a profound thought. Reflect on any of his posts and you soon realize they are nothing more than ambiguity masquerading as profundity.
Fun party game: make your own Charles Mudede Slog post by picking 6-10 adjectives out of a hat, turn them into nouns by either prepending "the" before them or adding the suffices "-itude," "-ness," or "-ocity," and then weave them into a few sentences. Voila! You too can pen the same great insights as Charles Mudede!
Fun party game: make your own Charles Mudede Slog post by picking 6-10 adjectives out of a hat, turn them into nouns by either prepending "the" before them or adding the suffices "-itude," "-ness," or "-ocity," and then weave them into a few sentences. Voila! You too can pen the same great insights as Charles Mudede!
32
Why is it that every article I read about the bodies of female models turns into a discussion of what kind of women men prefer to screw?
Sigh. If you can't beat 'em...
My preference:
1. thin 2. athletic 3. curvy 4. overweight 5. starving 6. obese.
Discuss.
Sigh. If you can't beat 'em...
My preference:
1. thin 2. athletic 3. curvy 4. overweight 5. starving 6. obese.
Discuss.
35
I don't think the real issue is with the models. If all the models were 10 lbs overweight you would still see young girls with anorexia and bulimia. These are deeply emotional disorders that grow out of anxiety and discomfort with one's body and sexuality and all sorts of things: a yearning to connect and love and all that shit, the development of which is blocked when fucked up parents from a fucked up world themselves don't know how to love and connect and relate.
36
Actually, there are some good studies that suggest that the bmi range with the longest life-expectancy is slightly overweight-BMI around 26. This is not considered thin by societies standards, let alone the fashion industry. It's a far cry from obese, but nowhere near twiggy.
Sorry I don't have time to find the citation right now, I'll look for it later and post.
Sorry I don't have time to find the citation right now, I'll look for it later and post.
37
Most people on here are missing the point. I don't think the most troublesome ideal is the high fashion runway model, with her tall, gaunt, masculine features. It seems that women and men are most deluded by Hollywood celebrities. Maybe VS models, too, since they aren't gaunt but of course are still very thin. While a lot of celebrities don't look like they're starving, they have a shitload of time, money, and resources to work out a TON and have a restricted diet. They have to look amazing and idealistic, it's their job. Some of them were probably already very good-looking to begin with, which is partly why they became famous.
Women AND men have become desensitized to what natural humans look like, feel like, smell like. I'm not saying we should all stop bathing and grooming, but it's been a while since we've seen a face in media without ultrawhitened/fake teeth, layers and layers of makeup, a 9-hour hairdo, and tanning product. It's the illusion of perfection that is so damaging. AIRBRUSHING? Sometimes it's really obvious but other times it looks so convincing.
People are going to have to continue to remind themselves how much work and money goes into looking like that, and how far it is from natural. If they are affected by the illusion, it doesn't mean they are stupid, horrible insecure, or feminazis.
Women AND men have become desensitized to what natural humans look like, feel like, smell like. I'm not saying we should all stop bathing and grooming, but it's been a while since we've seen a face in media without ultrawhitened/fake teeth, layers and layers of makeup, a 9-hour hairdo, and tanning product. It's the illusion of perfection that is so damaging. AIRBRUSHING? Sometimes it's really obvious but other times it looks so convincing.
People are going to have to continue to remind themselves how much work and money goes into looking like that, and how far it is from natural. If they are affected by the illusion, it doesn't mean they are stupid, horrible insecure, or feminazis.
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