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News & ArtsWednesday, November 23, 2011
Transportation The Failure of Link's Mount Baker Station
Posted by Charles Mudede on Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 10:31 AM
Let's not talk about the art, let's talk about this: In the two years I have passed by MBS station, I've not seen a crowd gathered on either of its platforms. The station appears to be seriously underused, despite the density and general busyness of the area it serves. I think there are two main reasons for this: One, the design of the station itself (it is hard to access the boarding platforms) and, two, the location of the bus station, which is way the fuck way on the other side of the street—only a Moses could quickly get you across that traffic-choked street. The bus station should have been located on the empty space just north of MBS, and the steps leading to the boarding platforms should be outside and not deep inside the bulky structure. Sound Transit really needs to rethink this place. MBS should be an important transportation and business hub and not what always see when passing it: a floating ghost town.
1
Link has also failed to post any signs whatsoever along Rainier Ave. indicating the presence of a light rail line a few blocks to the west. Another complete failure on behalf of our regional transit service. In fact one wouldn't even know there was light rail here in Seattle based on street cues or general signage.
4
Last train northbound from SeaTac should go all the way to Westlake so you're not stuck at Mt Baker late at night. Assholes.
5
Charles, you might be interested in this:
Potential Relief for Mt. Baker Transfers
http://seattletransitblog.com/2011/05/07…
Potential Relief for Mt. Baker Transfers
http://seattletransitblog.com/2011/05/07…
6
@4 has a point.
But it's mostly empty cause the train shows up so quick - just look North to Skytrain stations - many of them are practically deserted except around rush hours and game days.
But it's mostly empty cause the train shows up so quick - just look North to Skytrain stations - many of them are practically deserted except around rush hours and game days.
7
all the people are at the bus station. there are good and frequent buses from there, and most of them are faster than including the train.
that broken elevator is a joke. The amount of effort they've gone through to alert/reroute/ignore that elevator surely could've been used to fix it in an afternoon. That someone on here can mention "that broken elevator," and I know exactly what they're talking about--embarrassing. Fix the elevator! I can't imagine having to follow ST's recommendation for bypassing that thing, were I dependent on an elevator to get off that platform.
I think the main problem with the Mount Baker station (besides the name) is that there's nothing there. That area sucks.
that broken elevator is a joke. The amount of effort they've gone through to alert/reroute/ignore that elevator surely could've been used to fix it in an afternoon. That someone on here can mention "that broken elevator," and I know exactly what they're talking about--embarrassing. Fix the elevator! I can't imagine having to follow ST's recommendation for bypassing that thing, were I dependent on an elevator to get off that platform.
I think the main problem with the Mount Baker station (besides the name) is that there's nothing there. That area sucks.
8
Raise this point again in 10 years, if things haven't changed by then. As your compadre Goldy has pointed out, you build rail to encourage development near rail. We're two years into rail. We're in the middle of a significant economic downturn, following a global financial meltdown. It's only in the last 6 months that many real estate projects seem to be moving forward again (see e.g.,, the project on Hudson near Rainier in Columbia City).
Mt Baker seems like one of the stops with the most near term potential for development of housing, because I think it already has 65 foot zoning all around it, so there won't be any battles about that issue like those that have been happening on BEHI and out in Roosevelt. It also has better proximity than Othello and better amenities than SODO.
There are 307 apartment units being planned for sites on 2715 25th Ave. S. and 2615 25th Ave. S., on the east slope of Beacon Hill just west of the Rite Aid/QFC building. These sites are blocks away from Mt Baker Station. One would imagine that proximity to rail will be one of the selling points. One imagines that the Firestone Tire site will also get housing units at some point in the next couple of years. One also imagines that long term the QFC and Rite Aid will be torn down and a building will be sited closer to the street with these stores on the bottom and many units of housing above them (like the Safeway development on Madison and 23rd but even bigger). Parking will be moved to the back or underground.
As this new housing comes on line, I expect you'll see a lot more people at that stop. Sure, it seems kind of big and underused now, because it was designed for a density of housing that doesn't yet exist now.
I just finished reading a bio of Fredrick Law Olmsted. He said one of the challenges of landscape architecture was that it could take up to 20 years before the vision could come to fruition. I think rail needs to be seen in a similar light. Hopefully if won't take 20 years for Mt Baker to make more sense. But I suspect it will make more sense after another 1000-2000 housing units get built within 3 blocks of the station, a process that has already begun, and which will undoubtedly accelerate if the economy ever turns around.
More...
Mt Baker seems like one of the stops with the most near term potential for development of housing, because I think it already has 65 foot zoning all around it, so there won't be any battles about that issue like those that have been happening on BEHI and out in Roosevelt. It also has better proximity than Othello and better amenities than SODO.
There are 307 apartment units being planned for sites on 2715 25th Ave. S. and 2615 25th Ave. S., on the east slope of Beacon Hill just west of the Rite Aid/QFC building. These sites are blocks away from Mt Baker Station. One would imagine that proximity to rail will be one of the selling points. One imagines that the Firestone Tire site will also get housing units at some point in the next couple of years. One also imagines that long term the QFC and Rite Aid will be torn down and a building will be sited closer to the street with these stores on the bottom and many units of housing above them (like the Safeway development on Madison and 23rd but even bigger). Parking will be moved to the back or underground.
As this new housing comes on line, I expect you'll see a lot more people at that stop. Sure, it seems kind of big and underused now, because it was designed for a density of housing that doesn't yet exist now.
I just finished reading a bio of Fredrick Law Olmsted. He said one of the challenges of landscape architecture was that it could take up to 20 years before the vision could come to fruition. I think rail needs to be seen in a similar light. Hopefully if won't take 20 years for Mt Baker to make more sense. But I suspect it will make more sense after another 1000-2000 housing units get built within 3 blocks of the station, a process that has already begun, and which will undoubtedly accelerate if the economy ever turns around.
9
Well, of course, really, when one considers that the overall frame behind the design would have been even to farfetched for the likes of a Rube Goldberg cartoon (he would never have accepted such incredible design stupidity).
Spending billions, digging underground for a slow, at-grade light rail --- un-frigging-believable!
Now, all thoughtful design prognostications and projects over the years, dating back to GM and Ford's 1950s studies, suggest ONLY putting HIGH-SPEED and bullet trains underground, while utilizing monorail systems as aboveground transport, which tend to be earthquake resistant (see Kobe earthquake history and continued functioning of their monorail system and use in transporting the injured and emergency supplies).
So little thought, other than kickbacks to various politicians across the Puget Sound, has gone into the overall design of this transportation fiasco.
And think of the underground varmints who have been disturbed by all that expensive drilling and excavation!
Another MAJOR failure detailed:
http://www.nomiprins.com/thoughts/2011/1…
And the IMF study pertaining the outstanding above article:
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2…
Spending billions, digging underground for a slow, at-grade light rail --- un-frigging-believable!
Now, all thoughtful design prognostications and projects over the years, dating back to GM and Ford's 1950s studies, suggest ONLY putting HIGH-SPEED and bullet trains underground, while utilizing monorail systems as aboveground transport, which tend to be earthquake resistant (see Kobe earthquake history and continued functioning of their monorail system and use in transporting the injured and emergency supplies).
So little thought, other than kickbacks to various politicians across the Puget Sound, has gone into the overall design of this transportation fiasco.
And think of the underground varmints who have been disturbed by all that expensive drilling and excavation!
Another MAJOR failure detailed:
http://www.nomiprins.com/thoughts/2011/1…
And the IMF study pertaining the outstanding above article:
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2…
12
Thank you, Aaron @11. If any of these whiners were even semi-regular riders, they would've observed the fixed elevator some weeks ago. And no, it wasn't Sound Transit stubbornness that caused the delay, it was a rare part that had to be fabricated to replace one destroyed in a fire.
The old Firestone store will soon be demolished and replaced by a 4-story mixed use building with artist housing on the upper floors.
Mount Baker Station is only one-half block off of Rainier Ave. and can be readily identified by looking at it (Chas @1). It's that big structure with station shelters on top, populated every 3 - 6 minutes with trains.
The old Firestone store will soon be demolished and replaced by a 4-story mixed use building with artist housing on the upper floors.
Mount Baker Station is only one-half block off of Rainier Ave. and can be readily identified by looking at it (Chas @1). It's that big structure with station shelters on top, populated every 3 - 6 minutes with trains.
13
I had a job across the street for nine months. That elevator was shut down for a good five of them.
14
Very few people use elevators in light rail stations, even when the platforms are two floors up.
At least the twenty systems I've been on worldwide.
So having out of service elevators is not a big deal, it's not like people in minority areas have more disabled vets or disabled gunshot victims ... (can you hear the sarcasm yet).
At least the twenty systems I've been on worldwide.
So having out of service elevators is not a big deal, it's not like people in minority areas have more disabled vets or disabled gunshot victims ... (can you hear the sarcasm yet).
15
Ever take a LINK south after a Mariners game? As the train pulls in to Mt. Baker, Columbia, Othello, Rainer...the doors open into the blankness. Everyone looks around. No one exits. Faces ask...why are we stopping in the middle of the track? Where is Tukwila...and our car!
Because essentially, LINK is a parking lot shuttle.
Because essentially, LINK is a parking lot shuttle.
16
Some 360 apartment units are slated to get built around the Mount Baker station in the next couple of years. If it happens, that should help change the dynamic of the area a bit:
http://web1.seattle.gov/DPD/permitstatus…
http://web1.seattle.gov/DPD/permitstatus…
http://web1.seattle.gov/DPD/permitstatus…
http://web1.seattle.gov/DPD/permitstatus…
http://web1.seattle.gov/DPD/permitstatus…
http://web1.seattle.gov/DPD/permitstatus…
17
While pulling into Seatac yesterday am, I was passed by a link rail car containing exactly 2 people.
18
@4: The last train stops at Mt Baker because that's the last stop before the operations & maintenance (O&M) facility. When it's done running for the night, the train needs to get back there somehow. So either you say "no passengers" as it makes its way back from SeaTac to Mt Baker, or you allow people to ride for your halfway trip.
If you've ever seen a trolley bus in Capitol Hill or the U-District signed "International District", it's the same thing. These buses need to get back to the base, and the best way to do that is by taking Broadway all the way down to the ID. So rather than running empty the whole way, they pick up passengers, so long as those passengers are okay with not going downtown.
I agree with you that it would be nice if trains ran later (or if there were 24-hour service). But if there is a last train, then it has to end its run at Mt Baker.
If you've ever seen a trolley bus in Capitol Hill or the U-District signed "International District", it's the same thing. These buses need to get back to the base, and the best way to do that is by taking Broadway all the way down to the ID. So rather than running empty the whole way, they pick up passengers, so long as those passengers are okay with not going downtown.
I agree with you that it would be nice if trains ran later (or if there were 24-hour service). But if there is a last train, then it has to end its run at Mt Baker.
19
@16
Another guess I have about LINK is that for every one rider there are about 1000 people in and around the Seattle blogosphere who wax poetic at the mention of transit...without ever riding the thing!
There are literally thousands of apartments all along those South Seattle stations already. Ride LINK after nine o'clock...it's like a scene from "28 Days Later"....one or two apartments with the lights on.
The whole thing is a failure to socially engineer the Puget Sound from home loving happy sprawling single family people into a bunch of condo dwelling urban miscreants.
Another guess I have about LINK is that for every one rider there are about 1000 people in and around the Seattle blogosphere who wax poetic at the mention of transit...without ever riding the thing!
There are literally thousands of apartments all along those South Seattle stations already. Ride LINK after nine o'clock...it's like a scene from "28 Days Later"....one or two apartments with the lights on.
The whole thing is a failure to socially engineer the Puget Sound from home loving happy sprawling single family people into a bunch of condo dwelling urban miscreants.
20
Anybody who thinks light rail hasnt revitalized the MLK corridor obviously doesnt remember what it used to be like. Most likely, is too young to remember when it was a few used car lots and wholesale bean sprout factories.
The development that Link is spurring on is very visible farther south- Othello, for example, is hopping. And last week, when I rode it a few days in a row as a commuter, Mt. Baker was just as occupied as every other station- perhaps, because its so much bigger, it looks emptier with the same amount of people?
Give it a couple more years, the whole MLK axis will be much denser and more populated.
The development that Link is spurring on is very visible farther south- Othello, for example, is hopping. And last week, when I rode it a few days in a row as a commuter, Mt. Baker was just as occupied as every other station- perhaps, because its so much bigger, it looks emptier with the same amount of people?
Give it a couple more years, the whole MLK axis will be much denser and more populated.
21
@19: There are thousands of flats now along Link, and there ought to be thousands more. (And take a close look at the pedestrian no-man's land that is Rainier or Aurora and tell me that isn't social engineering of a different sort.) Fact is, apartment vacancy rates are low right now, and developers are scrambling to build more units as fast as they can. Fixed transit lines like Link draw transit users and new investment -- it's not government coercion, it's the market talking. Whether transit users ride Link after 9 -- and, seriously, why would this matter? -- doesn't change the equation.
22
@15: Nonsense. We ride from the Mt. Baker station to Stadium and back for about 16 games a year. We also make numerous trips downtown, for shopping in addition to using it for a daily commute.
This thread is idiotic.
This thread is idiotic.
23
@4 and @18, as a reminder, King County owns and operates the Downtown Seattle Transit Tunnel. They close the tunnel every night between 1 and 5am for maintenance, upkeep, and repairs, so there is no way ST can run link into the DSTT 24 hrs a day.
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