Slog
News & ArtsTuesday, November 22, 2011
Occupy Questioning the Accuracy of Jennifer Fox's Miscarriage Claim (Updated)
Posted by Dominic Holden on Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 3:47 PM
Yesterday Jennifer Fox claimed that she miscarried her fetus (first on this blog and then to The Stranger) , three months into her pregnancy, five days after police pepper sprayed her at an Occupy Seattle protest. I repeatedly asked if she could provide any medical records to back up her claim—a claim that doctors at Harborview Medical Center said her clash with police caused the miscarriage—but she said she would be in touch with a case worker. Lacking a way to verify her claim (except asking for her records) I said I would follow up.
So I tracked Fox down today at the Occupy Seattle encampment at Seattle Central Community College. Had she contacted anyone at the hospital? “I can’t go to the hospital until Sunday or Monday,” she said. Fox said that she’s having a memorial service for her miscarried baby and one of her fellow occupiers is planning a candlelight vigil, which will consume her time until next week. Can't she get away to the hospital for an hour? “No.” I provided Fox a copy of a records release for the hospital, which she put into her coat, but again Fox said she couldn’t go request her records until next week. I offered her a ride to and from the hospital, but she again refused. I explained to Fox that, lacking any evidence of her claim, her story was increasingly subject to scrutiny.
While sources in general should be given the benefit of the doubt—even if they are homeless women—and there is no evidence that Fox isn't being entirety forthright, her story looks increasingly dubious.
It's worth pointing out that in the Seattlepi.com article last week, the reporter noted that Fox was two months pregnant, when she told me that she was three months pregnant at the time.
UPDATE at 4:18 PM: Acting on an anonymous tip, we heard that Seattle police found Fox in a house nearly nine weeks ago. According to a police report in which the names have been redacted, a suspect who appears to have a three-letter last name "said she is three months pregnant... and began crying when [a suspect] was arrested. [The person with a three-letter last name] began holding her stomach and screaming that it hurt." The woman was transferred to Harborview Medical Center. We are attempting to contact Fox to ask if she is the woman in the police report.
SPD has now provided a statement, saying that no complaint has been filed in the original incident. Seattle police sergeant Sean Whitcomb says: "We are aware of a claim that a pregnant woman who attended the November 15 Occupy Seattle march has been treated for miscarriage. We are also aware that she has attributed the miscarriage to the use of pepper spray and physical contact by Seattle police officers. No formal complaint has been made. Consistent with standard procedure, the Office of Professional Accountability, or OPA, has initiated an internal investigation to look into the matter further. The OPA investigators will be actively searching for any information that will support this claim."
4
Yeah, I was pretty sure from the get-go that this was....not what it seemed.
For many, many reasons.
For many, many reasons.
5
What I find suspicious is that she knew the sex when as far as I know you can't really tell that till near 20 weeks unless you do rather invasive tests. Maybe she was just speculating though.
This story does seems rather fishy...
This story does seems rather fishy...
6
I'd like to wait and see. Morning the loss of a child can be incredibly difficult and can cause you to make decisions that others may think don't make sense. Let's see if next week when her schedule frees up she is still unwilling to verify her story.
7
There have been many fake stories planted by al-Qaeda-backed "conservatives" about rapists and murderers among Occupy encampments, and if you watch the twitter feed, you can tell they're using robo-twitter accounts to plant them, badly disguised as "local" news, yet they use the same wording ... exactly ... to the letter.
Pepper Spraying people just because you can shows a lack of proper riot control training, regardless of the outcome.
Pepper Spraying people just because you can shows a lack of proper riot control training, regardless of the outcome.
8
What are you, some kind of asshole? Jesus. And to think I spend so much breath defending The Stranger's stuff.
If I had a womb recently purged by a police chemical, I wouldn't want to pal around with a skeptical blogger either. What kind of smarmy jerk does that?
You win a lot Mr. Holden, but this time you lose. Congratulations on outing yourself as a total shit bag.
If I had a womb recently purged by a police chemical, I wouldn't want to pal around with a skeptical blogger either. What kind of smarmy jerk does that?
You win a lot Mr. Holden, but this time you lose. Congratulations on outing yourself as a total shit bag.
10
You are a pathetic, slimy little man, Dominic. I hope you got your rocks off fucking with this girl. And to all the rest of you healthy-skeptics, I hope you or a loved one gets beaten by the police and has a miscarriage just so this buck-toothed little weasel can hound you.
11
@9 exactly. The point of journalism is to spread and report the truth objectively -- warts and all, no matter who it pisses off. If that means taking a black eye at times, good. It's not the role of reporters to be liked. It's the role of reporters to be trusted.
13
eight you are a douche bag
the media has a right to investigate claims and not just take people at their word
the woman is making a pretty big claim against the SPD. it's troubling that she seems to be avoiding backing up that claim.
the media has a right to investigate claims and not just take people at their word
the woman is making a pretty big claim against the SPD. it's troubling that she seems to be avoiding backing up that claim.
14
I for one appreciate the attempt at due diligence on the part of Mr. Holden.
Her story seemed a bit fishy from the beginning (five days later, yet *directly attributable* to having been maced?)
I hope for her sake that she's slightly mentally ill or a drama queen and not actually the victim of police brutality and a miscarriage.
Her story seemed a bit fishy from the beginning (five days later, yet *directly attributable* to having been maced?)
I hope for her sake that she's slightly mentally ill or a drama queen and not actually the victim of police brutality and a miscarriage.
15
@9: No one is under any obligation to share their medical records with any Tom, Dick and Harry calling themselves a journalist. Asking a person for them once is one thing, writing a whiny blog post about repeatedly asking and then inferring that a repeated denial is somehow evidence of malfeasance is just pathetic.
Repeatedly denying Dominic Holden access to her medical records is only evidence that she didn't want to share her medical records with Dominic Holden, and judging by the tone and tactics he seems to have chosen I can certainly see why.
I don't necessarily put full stock in anyone's story without corroboration however, if corroboration comes at the cost of badgering a woman who may or may not have recently gone through a miscarriage I'd prefer to not know.
Furthermore, it's entirely possible she's pursuing litigation on the matter, in which case it's a strategic move to not reveal sensitive information to anyone. There could be a thousand reasons why she doesn't want to talk about it. Asking once, gently and politely is enough. That's not what Mr. Holden has done, and by asking repeatedly and as inconsiderately as he described betrays a giant asshole streak running through his character.
There's no "due diligence" in being a common jerk.
Repeatedly denying Dominic Holden access to her medical records is only evidence that she didn't want to share her medical records with Dominic Holden, and judging by the tone and tactics he seems to have chosen I can certainly see why.
I don't necessarily put full stock in anyone's story without corroboration however, if corroboration comes at the cost of badgering a woman who may or may not have recently gone through a miscarriage I'd prefer to not know.
Furthermore, it's entirely possible she's pursuing litigation on the matter, in which case it's a strategic move to not reveal sensitive information to anyone. There could be a thousand reasons why she doesn't want to talk about it. Asking once, gently and politely is enough. That's not what Mr. Holden has done, and by asking repeatedly and as inconsiderately as he described betrays a giant asshole streak running through his character.
There's no "due diligence" in being a common jerk.
17
"Planning a candlelight vigil" takes these occutards a WHOLE WEEK?
And they want to run the country and make important decisions for the rest of us???
LOL
And they want to run the country and make important decisions for the rest of us???
LOL
19
See, it's possible to actually get the truth of the story without screaming "BITCH DESERVED IT" at the drop of a hat.
20
I spend a lot of time at camp. Jennifer also claimed to have a miscarriage a week before the pepper-spray incident. I think she is perpetually pregnant and miscarrying in accordance with if she's trying to get back w her boyfriend or dump him. Those two have provided more drama on site than any other couple there.
21
@15: No, sir. She made a very public claim, alleging police brutality and overreaction caused her miscarriage. She further claimed that a publicly funded doctor at Harborview expressly told her that pepper spray caused her miscarriage.
Under these facts, and given Dom's role as a reporter for the paper (the tunnel coverage, let me show you it), it is absofuckinglutely a matter of public interest. And there is a great deal of reason to doubt her story, and the presence of bullshit stories does a great disservice to the presence of actual police harms and aggressions.
This, frankly, is not typical Stranger journalism, but it is most certainly journalism.
Under these facts, and given Dom's role as a reporter for the paper (the tunnel coverage, let me show you it), it is absofuckinglutely a matter of public interest. And there is a great deal of reason to doubt her story, and the presence of bullshit stories does a great disservice to the presence of actual police harms and aggressions.
This, frankly, is not typical Stranger journalism, but it is most certainly journalism.
22
I love that her extremely busy schedule of sitting around a campus in a tent is keeping her from providing proof of her claims of SPD "murdering an unborn baby."
Next she'll be claiming Justin Beiber is the father.
I understand her being extremely upset at the loss of her pregnancy. I can only imagine what a physically and emotionally painful process that must be, but before she starts throwing out hefty accusations, she better be able to provide solid proof. Right now she's written a check that her ass can't cash.
Next she'll be claiming Justin Beiber is the father.
I understand her being extremely upset at the loss of her pregnancy. I can only imagine what a physically and emotionally painful process that must be, but before she starts throwing out hefty accusations, she better be able to provide solid proof. Right now she's written a check that her ass can't cash.
24
A Tawana Brawley for the Occupy set. She could have taken the taxpayers for big money and your feckless, useless mayor would be all too happy to pay her off. I wonder if she could get a totem
26
@ 23 is also correct. This corroboration should have been done before this allegation was reported.
27
The incident in the police report took place on 9/22/11, which is almost NINE weeks ago, not six. It states "Suspect (S/5) said she is three months pregnant...". If this is the same person, and if what she was saying at the time of the police report was true, she would have been roughly five months along.
28
@22, IKR?! I was thinking the same thing, Harborview is like, 5 minutes away by car. And hey, she DID agree to provide the records and is now backing out. Congrats to Dom for some real journalism here. Due diligence, follow-thru and all that shit.
29
No wonder she was going to name the kid "Miracle." Apparently it's been conceived and miscarried more times than she can recall.
30
I've given you a lot of shit over the years for crappy journalism, Dom. It's only right that I commend you for doing a good job, so nice work, especially given that the narrative seems to be diverging from the one your base would prefer to hear.
Obviously the story is still unfolding, and I look forward to any follow up.
Obviously the story is still unfolding, and I look forward to any follow up.
33
Huh. She was making shit up. Who could possibly have seen this coming... oh, that's right. Everyone with a working brain.
35
Dominic is doing his job.
If this girl did miscarry, that is tragic.
If she did not miscarry and she is lying, then that needs to be reported as well.
Just making a claim, does not make it fact.
Telling lies to further your cause is just as unattractive on the left, as it is on the right.
If this girl did miscarry, that is tragic.
If she did not miscarry and she is lying, then that needs to be reported as well.
Just making a claim, does not make it fact.
Telling lies to further your cause is just as unattractive on the left, as it is on the right.
36
Dominic,
Speaking of claims, I read this morning that a woman was sexually assaulted in a tent at the OS SCCC campus. Has that been substantiated?
Speaking of claims, I read this morning that a woman was sexually assaulted in a tent at the OS SCCC campus. Has that been substantiated?
37
What @20 said is interesting, though totally unsurprising, if it's true.
It's as plausible to believe that she's an attention-seeking drama queen of a 19 year old as it is to believe that she was brutalized by the cops. I don't mean to cut SPD any slack here... they certainly haven't proven themselves to be a calm, even-handed bunch. But I also know that some folks are ready to pull any thread that leads to accusations of police brutality, no matter how dubious the claim. Given what happened at UC Davis last week, we really don't need to bite every hook that comes down in front of us. Sometimes cops are fucking sadistic pricks, and when they are, justice must be served swiftly and harshly (as I sincerely hope it will be at UC Davis). Then again, sometimes 19 year old homeless chicks are drama queens and make shit up to get attention for themselves.
We don't know what happened, but reaching conclusions before we do isn't helping make anything better. Stay with this story, please, Dominic. I'll be curious to find out what's real.
It's as plausible to believe that she's an attention-seeking drama queen of a 19 year old as it is to believe that she was brutalized by the cops. I don't mean to cut SPD any slack here... they certainly haven't proven themselves to be a calm, even-handed bunch. But I also know that some folks are ready to pull any thread that leads to accusations of police brutality, no matter how dubious the claim. Given what happened at UC Davis last week, we really don't need to bite every hook that comes down in front of us. Sometimes cops are fucking sadistic pricks, and when they are, justice must be served swiftly and harshly (as I sincerely hope it will be at UC Davis). Then again, sometimes 19 year old homeless chicks are drama queens and make shit up to get attention for themselves.
We don't know what happened, but reaching conclusions before we do isn't helping make anything better. Stay with this story, please, Dominic. I'll be curious to find out what's real.
38
Look, I would prefer this lady to be crazy and attention seeking. I don't want to find out the police induced a miscarriage by pepper spraying people. I don't take issue with these "journalistic" tactics because they offend the narrative I'd prefer to hear.
I've also been a long time fan and reader of Mr. Holden's articles (@21, I LOVED the tunnel articles). It's not some personal grudge, but when someone, even a writer I generally respect, puts a post on a blog I read and comment on about how he unsuccessfully badgered a woman into turning over her medical records to him, I'll call bullshit.
Maybe this lady is insufferable, maybe she is crazy. That's not at issue. What bothers me is the suggestion that, because someone doesn't want to talk to a journalist about a personal medical issue, EVEN IF they've brought it up to journalists in the past, they are somehow being shady or deceitful. Presenting such a narrative is manipulative. Anyone can choose who to talk to and when and under what circumstances. Even if they're crazy, but ESPECIALLY if they've just had a miscarriage.
My best friend had a miscarriage once. It was awful. Painful and traumatic. She sunk into a terrible depression and was moody and unpredictable. If there is even a suggestion that this person miscarried, she should at least be treated with some deference, not repeatedly pressed into driving with a stranger (ha! get it?) to a her doctor's to turn over her medical records. That just weirds me the fuck out.
There are two possible outcomes here:
1) A crazy person is grandstanding in a way where humiliation and scorn are guaranteed, which is sad and scary OR
2) The police caused a woman to miscarry by pepper spraying her at a protest, which is horrifying and terrible.
There's no way this story ends well. All's I'm saying is, if you're going to interview or probe into the victim's story, just don't be such a dick about it. Furthermore, don't publicize what a dick you are in hunting the story down if you don't want random internet trolls such as myself to call you a dick on the internet.
That is all.
More...
I've also been a long time fan and reader of Mr. Holden's articles (@21, I LOVED the tunnel articles). It's not some personal grudge, but when someone, even a writer I generally respect, puts a post on a blog I read and comment on about how he unsuccessfully badgered a woman into turning over her medical records to him, I'll call bullshit.
Maybe this lady is insufferable, maybe she is crazy. That's not at issue. What bothers me is the suggestion that, because someone doesn't want to talk to a journalist about a personal medical issue, EVEN IF they've brought it up to journalists in the past, they are somehow being shady or deceitful. Presenting such a narrative is manipulative. Anyone can choose who to talk to and when and under what circumstances. Even if they're crazy, but ESPECIALLY if they've just had a miscarriage.
My best friend had a miscarriage once. It was awful. Painful and traumatic. She sunk into a terrible depression and was moody and unpredictable. If there is even a suggestion that this person miscarried, she should at least be treated with some deference, not repeatedly pressed into driving with a stranger (ha! get it?) to a her doctor's to turn over her medical records. That just weirds me the fuck out.
There are two possible outcomes here:
1) A crazy person is grandstanding in a way where humiliation and scorn are guaranteed, which is sad and scary OR
2) The police caused a woman to miscarry by pepper spraying her at a protest, which is horrifying and terrible.
There's no way this story ends well. All's I'm saying is, if you're going to interview or probe into the victim's story, just don't be such a dick about it. Furthermore, don't publicize what a dick you are in hunting the story down if you don't want random internet trolls such as myself to call you a dick on the internet.
That is all.
39
KIRO Newsradio did a story on this at 5:00 today. Their reporter talked to Fox, asked her about the previous police report, the pepper spray incident, her miscarriage claims, etc.
Maybe KIRO has the audio on their website by now.
Maybe KIRO has the audio on their website by now.
40
@39 - Don't you see that it is more than her being crazy or grandstanding? Especially since the city's police force has been under such fire?
This chick wasn't found by journalists - she ran to tell them her story of of police brutality and its ultimate cost of human life. It got a great deal of attention, and not just locally. It affected the perception of our police force, and the protestors.
Dom wasn't a dick - if anything, this story should NEVER have been reported without a modicum of fact checking. This is actually responsible journalism, and at a time when many have lost a great deal of faith in the credibility and veracity of the press covering the Occupy movement.
This chick wasn't found by journalists - she ran to tell them her story of of police brutality and its ultimate cost of human life. It got a great deal of attention, and not just locally. It affected the perception of our police force, and the protestors.
Dom wasn't a dick - if anything, this story should NEVER have been reported without a modicum of fact checking. This is actually responsible journalism, and at a time when many have lost a great deal of faith in the credibility and veracity of the press covering the Occupy movement.
41
We'd all LOVE to see some corraborating evidence showing that the pain and trauma of being handled like an unpredictable dangerous wild animal that must be disarmed first, though unarmed & peacefully protesting, before it's safe for the cops covered in riot armor just to be there.. DOES in fact cause physical harm & is not as safe as the chief of police has claimed it to be.. BUT sadly if one were to wager on the accuracy of public servant's claims compared to young unmarried women who are known for being prone to manifest and miscarry as easily as men can be manipulated into miracle making activities.. Statistics certainly would support the author's suspicions undoubtedly!
42
Wow just saw her close-up on KIRO.
That junkie crack meth whore is ONLY 19???
My 43-year-old wife looks younger than her... NO KIDDING!!!
That junkie crack meth whore is ONLY 19???
My 43-year-old wife looks younger than her... NO KIDDING!!!
44
@2: The fact that you claim to be sad because a fetus was NOT miscarried affirms that this possibly fabricated story has value as a political weapon.
46
She told a KIRO reporter that she was pregnant with twins 2 months ago and miscarried one of the two.
I'd like to give a shout out to the Slogger who said I should choke for suggesting a 19 year old homeless girl might not be telling the truth.
I'd like to give a shout out to the Slogger who said I should choke for suggesting a 19 year old homeless girl might not be telling the truth.
48
Oh, and you keep missing the part where she has a case worker for this and is in talks with lawyers.
Reporter fail.
Reporter fail.
50
Thanks for the follow-up. This sort of crying wolf drama isn't helping the occupy movement, will only serve to make people doubt the claims of excessive force by the police.
51
Bottom line: I think we have an obligation to demand the truth from our allies as much as we do from our enemies. If this had been a case of Occupy protestors allegedly assaulting a civilian or a police officer, most of the people arguing this woman has no need to prove her claim would be demanding to see the evidence. I don't know which to hope for: that this awful thing didn't happen, which is going to cause serious damage to any message that comes out of Occupy, or that she's telling the truth, which leads to a great big sticky situation. Either way it's messed up.
52
@38 When Dom asked, she replied that she would get them for him. Dominic went to follow up on that. It isn't like he badgered her. He simply followed up on what she had told him she would do.
53
And you're just assuming she's telling the truth about that? With all of her story's inconsistencies and her evasions? Are you trying to be gullible or does it just come naturally to you?
Oh, and you keep missing the part where she has a case worker for this and is in talks with lawyers.
And you're just assuming she's telling the truth about that? With all of her story's inconsistencies and her evasions? Are you trying to be gullible or does it just come naturally to you?
54
While I applaud due diligence (something sometimes lacking in media), as someone who had a miscarriage late last year, I can't personally attest to the fact that sometimes, you just aren't rational. Perhaps we (collective we, not necessarily me) think her first action should be heading straight to the hospital to get medical records; but to her, maybe that's not the rational thing to do right now. I have 2 other children, I barely cared for them for 4 days, until my husband lovingly but firmly reminded me that they needed me too. Sometimes the most rational, common sense things to others aren't the same in the minds of someone going through an emotional & physical trauma. I think it's important that the truth, whatever it may be, come out in this case as it's spreading like wild fire, but let's not forget human compassion in our quest for said truth.
55
Also, she never claimed to be in talks with lawyers, unless you're citing something that hasn't been published on Slog. She made vague references to maybe trying to find an attorney eventually; the type of threat any aggrieved American will make at least once in their life.
56
http://tinyurl.com/7zn4fq3
Miss November of the "Lying drug-addled whores of Occupy Seattle" calendar!
Who is the unlucky chump who actually fucked this beast? He had to be totally whacked-out on drugs too... That is, if she's not just totally lying about being pregnant at all in the first place.
Nice eye-warts, you dumb bitch.
Miss November of the "Lying drug-addled whores of Occupy Seattle" calendar!
Who is the unlucky chump who actually fucked this beast? He had to be totally whacked-out on drugs too... That is, if she's not just totally lying about being pregnant at all in the first place.
Nice eye-warts, you dumb bitch.
57
Truck on over to the Seattle Times for more credibility info...
Stebbins said Fox, whom she parented for 10 years, has a pattern of exaggeration. "My daughter is a compulsive liar," Stebbins said. "She's a wannabe drama queen."
Stebbins' older daughter echoed the statements in a separate interview.
"I seriously doubt, that if she is claiming she had a miscarriage, that she was even pregnant," said Stebbins' daughter, Nicole Botes, who has known Fox for a decade. "I'd like to see actual medical reports."
Stebbins said Fox, whom she parented for 10 years, has a pattern of exaggeration. "My daughter is a compulsive liar," Stebbins said. "She's a wannabe drama queen."
Stebbins' older daughter echoed the statements in a separate interview.
"I seriously doubt, that if she is claiming she had a miscarriage, that she was even pregnant," said Stebbins' daughter, Nicole Botes, who has known Fox for a decade. "I'd like to see actual medical reports."
59
"What bothers me is the suggestion that, because someone doesn't want to talk to a journalist about a personal medical issue, EVEN IF they've brought it up to journalists in the past, they are somehow being shady or deceitful."
Why does that suggestion bother you? That's exactly what's going on here. The commenters in the last thread calling bullshit were 100% correct, and all the dipshits who were yelling at them about hating women and other such nonsense were wrong. I doubt they'll apologize though.
Why does that suggestion bother you? That's exactly what's going on here. The commenters in the last thread calling bullshit were 100% correct, and all the dipshits who were yelling at them about hating women and other such nonsense were wrong. I doubt they'll apologize though.
60
Anyone else seen the Seattle Times' reporting on this?
In an interview Tuesday at the Occupy Seattle encampment on Capitol Hill, Fox said she had three ultrasound pictures of her fetus in her tent, but declined to show them to reporters.
Stebbins said Fox, whom she parented for 10 years, has a pattern of exaggeration. "My daughter is a compulsive liar," Stebbins said. "She's a wannabe drama queen."
Stebbins' older daughter echoed the statements in a separate interview.
"I seriously doubt, that if she is claiming she had a miscarriage, that she was even pregnant," said Stebbins' daughter, Nicole Botes, who has known Fox for a decade. "I'd like to see actual medical reports."
61
Apparently, Fox has repeatedly changed her story, and her former foster mother says Fox is a "compulsive liar".
http://mynorthwest.com/11/582322/Inconsi…
http://mynorthwest.com/11/582322/Inconsi…
62
@54, thank you, re: the need for compassion.
No matter how it turns out, whatever the Truth is -- have compassion.
That's somebody's daughter or sister or friend.
No matter how it turns out, whatever the Truth is -- have compassion.
That's somebody's daughter or sister or friend.
63
The Stranger's coverage of all of this is now on Huffington Post. All the more reason for Dom to check the veracity of this story.
64
Without knowing her medical history and with the information I currently have, I'm presuming that she will get to ride in an ambulance 14 more times in the next 10 months.
((52 / 9) * 3) - 3 = 14.33
((52 / 9) * 3) - 3 = 14.33
65
Man, that is one ugly chick. Someone fucked her? THat's the hardest part of the story to believe.
THanks Occupy Seattle. Jennifer 'Face-Boil' Fox is the funniest shit you're provided since the 'Occupy man shits on sidewalk' video.
If only she had filed charges....if only....she'd be spending a nice warm Xmas in jail.
THanks Occupy Seattle. Jennifer 'Face-Boil' Fox is the funniest shit you're provided since the 'Occupy man shits on sidewalk' video.
If only she had filed charges....if only....she'd be spending a nice warm Xmas in jail.
66
"They said (pepper spray) caused a little bit of damage for the heart, but the kick and bike caused damage to the body," Fox said.
"I cried a lot. I wanted to have a kid," Fox said. "But things happen for a reason. Yeah, I lost a kid, but this makes me stronger."
"I cried a lot. I wanted to have a kid," Fox said. "But things happen for a reason. Yeah, I lost a kid, but this makes me stronger."
67
She claims her "stomach started getting bigger 3 months ago". In the first week of her pregnancy.
Man, she even lies stupid.
Man, she even lies stupid.
71
@15 - if it was a cop claiming that he or she had been injured by a OS person, would you make the same argument? Of course you wouldn't. You'd be demanding their medical records or calling bullshit on them if they couldn't produce any actual evidence of their claims. And you'd be right.
We'll see if she can prove it up. Somehow, I doubt it.
We'll see if she can prove it up. Somehow, I doubt it.
72
Slog "journalists" waste their time and credibility on this horse-shit liar, but they still haven't even mentioned the near-fatal attack on Danny Vega AT ALL.
Golly gee whiz I wonder why. Reporting on an openly-gay salon owner getting beaten almost to death by a pack of blacks just doesn't fit in with Slog's "Progressive Advocacy Journalism" agenda.
Golly gee whiz I wonder why. Reporting on an openly-gay salon owner getting beaten almost to death by a pack of blacks just doesn't fit in with Slog's "Progressive Advocacy Journalism" agenda.
73
According to the Seattle Times, Fox's family "doubts her story" and claims she "has a history of exaggerating and never mentioned she was pregnant when they spoke recently."
OWS officially sucks. It may have started out as the 99%, but now it's just a bunch of people with mental issues.
OWS officially sucks. It may have started out as the 99%, but now it's just a bunch of people with mental issues.
74
This should never have been reported in the first place. With just a few basic questions other media people figured out this woman was a liar. Why couldn't Dominic figure it out before he sent out a story that told the world Seattle Police are baby killers?
It was lazy and wrong of him not to get more facts before publishing his story yesterday. He should apologize for spreading a lie.
It was lazy and wrong of him not to get more facts before publishing his story yesterday. He should apologize for spreading a lie.
76
@74: Yes, it definitely should have been reported because it perfectly illustrates why OWS sucks ass.
77
@75
Whuuh???
You think she might be even younger than 19?!!?!?
My 43-year-old wife looks younger than her - no BS.
Whuuh???
You think she might be even younger than 19?!!?!?
My 43-year-old wife looks younger than her - no BS.
78
What's with people calling her a whore? As a Seattle sex worker, I bristle at the comparison.
This story (which sounded very fishy from the start) makes me angry because it reminds me of when I've seen people caught up in fake rape claims. Lefty circles are so eager to believe any and all accusations of rape/assault/police brutality, it fosters an environment that rewards people for making false claims, all of which only hurts real victims. A healthy dose of skepticism is indeed called for, and I'm glad to see The Stranger engaging in it.
This story (which sounded very fishy from the start) makes me angry because it reminds me of when I've seen people caught up in fake rape claims. Lefty circles are so eager to believe any and all accusations of rape/assault/police brutality, it fosters an environment that rewards people for making false claims, all of which only hurts real victims. A healthy dose of skepticism is indeed called for, and I'm glad to see The Stranger engaging in it.
79
"Sources in general should be given the benefit of the doubt" -- what the fuck? Jesus. That might be the dumbest thing a Stranger "reporter" has ever said.
80
Hopefully SPD will give Holden a face full of pepper spray next time he's out pretending to be a journalist, bullshitting up national stories that our police are baby killers.
81
"Sources in general should be given the benefit of the doubt"
Remember, you must NEVER question a woman about anything involving sex or you are a woman-hating tool of the patriarchy
Remember, you must NEVER question a woman about anything involving sex or you are a woman-hating tool of the patriarchy
82
That foster mother needs to immediately cease any and all fostering. You never break a kid's confidentiality, even after you stop being their foster mother.
I'm beginning to wonder if this isn't a huge set-up that the anti-Occupy campaign that the 1% is dumping scads of money into so as to ruin Occupy's reputation...
I'm beginning to wonder if this isn't a huge set-up that the anti-Occupy campaign that the 1% is dumping scads of money into so as to ruin Occupy's reputation...
83
If Jennifer Fox lied about this, as anybody with half a brain suspected after the tall tale she originally told The Stranger, she is a parasitic boil on society's ass. Way to exploit every woman who has ever been assaulted or had a miscarriage, Jennifer.
It's filthy parasites like Jennifer Fox who make it so hard for women who are actually assaulted to find anyone who will believe them.
Congrats, Stranger. The whole country is talking about the story you started, and your attempt at makeup journalism won't put a lid back on it now. Once everyone finds out that Jennifer Fox is just some narcissistic piece of shit, nobody will listen to the stories of future SPD atrocities.
It's filthy parasites like Jennifer Fox who make it so hard for women who are actually assaulted to find anyone who will believe them.
Congrats, Stranger. The whole country is talking about the story you started, and your attempt at makeup journalism won't put a lid back on it now. Once everyone finds out that Jennifer Fox is just some narcissistic piece of shit, nobody will listen to the stories of future SPD atrocities.
84
there's no way to prove someone was pregnant and miscarried unless you do a D&C very soon afterward. there's also no way to prove someone was NOT pregnant and miscarried unless you do a D&C very soon after they make that claim. I'd guess that Fox won't be having a D&C and showing those records to anyone, so both the sympathy for her loss and mourning and the insults hurled at her are both inappropriate.
It is appropriate to call the cops badly-supervised jerks.
Good journalism, Stranger.
It is appropriate to call the cops badly-supervised jerks.
Good journalism, Stranger.
85
83 et al: Agreed and seconded. Such a serious charge as "brutality caused my miscarriage" should actually NOT be given "the benefit of the doubt" until some BASIC fact checking is done. As Bax @ 71 notes, if the situation was reversed and a cop was alleging such abuse, you'd be demanding proof before running with the story...
86
Dominic's "reporting": Ready, fire, aim.
To those who call this "good journalism," bunk. Good journalism is what The Seattle Times did, which was to not publish the claim until they checked it out.
To those who call this "good journalism," bunk. Good journalism is what The Seattle Times did, which was to not publish the claim until they checked it out.
87
The Seattle Times is not and never was good journalism, no matter what they print or don't print. The P-I was good print journalism. Now we're left with the Stranger and sometimes (often, actually) it does it well.
88
"the insults hurled at her are both inappropriate"
She's a boiled-covered lying sack of shit. Hopefully she'll read these comments and do the world a favor.
She's a boiled-covered lying sack of shit. Hopefully she'll read these comments and do the world a favor.
89
@83 It seems likely that she lied but it also seems likely that she has some mental health issues. I don't think that makes her a parasite.
90
The SPD still pepper-sprayed an 84 year old woman, and a priest. And a bunch of other people engaged in non-violent protest...
91
Hey Napoleon at #90
Who gives a flying shit if someone is a "priest". That makes me dislike them even more.
You slogwimps use Jeebus shit for your advantage and then you crap on Jeebus shit when it suits you to your advantage. You are disingenuous hypocritical fakes.
Who gives a flying shit if someone is a "priest". That makes me dislike them even more.
You slogwimps use Jeebus shit for your advantage and then you crap on Jeebus shit when it suits you to your advantage. You are disingenuous hypocritical fakes.
92
"84 year old woman, and a priest"
Dorli is a professional agitator. She's been maced and arrested more than a loose pit bull.
Rich Lang is a priest in the same way a crack whore is a show girl.
Dorli is a professional agitator. She's been maced and arrested more than a loose pit bull.
Rich Lang is a priest in the same way a crack whore is a show girl.
94
@90
Blocking traffic and illegally detaining other citizens by infringing on their right of free movement is not included within your rights of "peaceful assembly" and "nonviolent protest".
Eat shit & get peppersprayed if you block traffic or free movement of others.
Blocking traffic and illegally detaining other citizens by infringing on their right of free movement is not included within your rights of "peaceful assembly" and "nonviolent protest".
Eat shit & get peppersprayed if you block traffic or free movement of others.
97
So this guy "Dominic" posts a bunch of accusations without bothering to even spend a few minutes checking them out.
Then, when actual, real reporters do the checking, and find this woman's accusations to be lies, he decides he better backtrack.
And for that backtracking, the usual imbeciles on Slog tell him what a good job he did.
No, "Dominic" did not.
Is he that gullible?
I mean, after this, would you trust anything he writes?
Then, when actual, real reporters do the checking, and find this woman's accusations to be lies, he decides he better backtrack.
And for that backtracking, the usual imbeciles on Slog tell him what a good job he did.
No, "Dominic" did not.
Is he that gullible?
I mean, after this, would you trust anything he writes?
98
Where the hell is Charles Mudede when we need him?
Someone needs to say that it is entirely possible that this women honestly and sincerely believes that she miscarried due to pepper spray and police bludgeoning, and even believes that medical personnel confirmed these alleged facts. It is possible, further, to suppose that she believes such things without invoking the agency of "narcissism" or "attention-seeking".
In other words, we should be able to easily imagine that this woman's story happened entirely in her own mind, but without assigning nasty, devious, selfish, manipulative motives to her.
Please, Charles, come back to SLOG. SLOG needs you.
Someone needs to say that it is entirely possible that this women honestly and sincerely believes that she miscarried due to pepper spray and police bludgeoning, and even believes that medical personnel confirmed these alleged facts. It is possible, further, to suppose that she believes such things without invoking the agency of "narcissism" or "attention-seeking".
In other words, we should be able to easily imagine that this woman's story happened entirely in her own mind, but without assigning nasty, devious, selfish, manipulative motives to her.
Please, Charles, come back to SLOG. SLOG needs you.
99
I appreciate the effort that was put into interrogating this woman's claims from an agenda-free perspective, but find myself wishing that nothing had been posted until after the effort was made (at which point it would have been clear that there was nothing worth posting - "Young Woman Probably Lied About Pregnancy" hardly warrants publication). As it stands, this story is bad for the Occupy movement - and it's no fault of the occupants.
I sympathize with Slog writers' desire to provide prompt reportage of the protests, but I've come to understand that it originates from the desire to support OS. This post examples that sometimes getting the word out as quickly as possible is complicit with defaming OS and the entire Occupy movement.
I sympathize with Slog writers' desire to provide prompt reportage of the protests, but I've come to understand that it originates from the desire to support OS. This post examples that sometimes getting the word out as quickly as possible is complicit with defaming OS and the entire Occupy movement.
100
That is rather debatable. OWS refuses to screen people joining it, as a matter of principle. This is of course an entirely respectable ideological tenet, but it does have consequences, and it would not be unreasonable to suggest that the occupants (as a collective, if not as individuals) do bear responsibility for the consequences of upholding that principle.
...and it's no fault of the occupants.
That is rather debatable. OWS refuses to screen people joining it, as a matter of principle. This is of course an entirely respectable ideological tenet, but it does have consequences, and it would not be unreasonable to suggest that the occupants (as a collective, if not as individuals) do bear responsibility for the consequences of upholding that principle.
101
@100 - What would the process of 'screening' people to admit entrance into a protest look like? That isn't a thing!
102
when it is found out that she is lying and made the entire thing up, can she face legal charges? she did state on record that the SPD was responsible for her fairy tale miscarriage, after all.
103
Dominic Holden,
Yet again proving to be one of the few Stranger writers who cares about his professional reputation. As it turns out facts and old-fashioned reporting are more readable, more interesting, and can still [although not the case here] support the overall 'progressive' movement without resorting to thoughtless, conjecture-driven drivel that most blogger-types (including most of the stranger staff) resort to. Well done!
Yet again proving to be one of the few Stranger writers who cares about his professional reputation. As it turns out facts and old-fashioned reporting are more readable, more interesting, and can still [although not the case here] support the overall 'progressive' movement without resorting to thoughtless, conjecture-driven drivel that most blogger-types (including most of the stranger staff) resort to. Well done!
104
@103: Knowing the truth in this case will support the progressive movement. It seems important to leave the lying up to the Tea Party. Admittedly, it'd help more if lies were never reported in the first place, but that seems less and less likely in this case.
105
Those saying "it shouldn't have been reported in the first place" should keep in mind that the story had "THIS ISN'T CONFIRMED" written all over it; and the way Fox was telling her story should have made everyone raise an eyebrow and reserve judgment then.
The Stranger is, in this instance, blameless.
The Stranger is, in this instance, blameless.
106
Also, anyone who thinks this ONE INDIVIDUAL gives reason for judging the whole movement is a mental midget. It's not even reason for judging this particular group of hardcore protesters.
107
@71 I would say that you are half right. Yes if a cop was to claim an OS person caused a miscarriage that the public would DEMAND the medical records. I just do not believe that an officer would publicly say that a protester caused the miscarriage.
108
Matt @105: You know what a real journalist does with an unconfirmed story? Nothing. But these boneheads ran with it anyway. Blameless? Well, not quite.
109
#106 It's not her lying that hurts the movement. It's how so many of OS salivated over the story and started shrieking about police brutality with no one asking the most basic questions -- check out their facebook page.
The "she was just a peaceful protestor who was clueless that things could go bad" rhetoric was thick, never mind that the march was about police brutality in Oakland, that the group had already been pepper sprayed earlier, that many in the very march were urging their buddies to get the hell out of that intersection, that the march was down to a pretty small remnant by the time the last pepper spray hit, and that pretty much all that was going on at the end was some pretty vicious cop taunting.
Holding her up as a beatific pregnant goddess of peaceful protest as they did at the beginning and then again when she made up the stuff about being kicked certainly is the fault of OS.
The "she was just a peaceful protestor who was clueless that things could go bad" rhetoric was thick, never mind that the march was about police brutality in Oakland, that the group had already been pepper sprayed earlier, that many in the very march were urging their buddies to get the hell out of that intersection, that the march was down to a pretty small remnant by the time the last pepper spray hit, and that pretty much all that was going on at the end was some pretty vicious cop taunting.
Holding her up as a beatific pregnant goddess of peaceful protest as they did at the beginning and then again when she made up the stuff about being kicked certainly is the fault of OS.
110
@106: Of course 1 individual isn't cause to disregard an entire movement. That'll hold true for believers. But for those who disagree, or those on the fence, it's a strong indication that the movement is full of psychos and liars. A few bad apples spoil the bunch is cliche for a reason.
111
106, They shouldn't, but they will. I cringed when Slog ran this story without any fact checking whatsoever. Then when it went national, with every other story referencing the original Stranger piece, I was exasperated.
Do you think the average Joe now getting the story that Jennifer Fox, Occupy Seattle protester, lied about being pregnant, being kicked by police, and having a miscarriage as a result is going to care about the imminent moves to evict the protesters? They've already aggravated folks with the stupid block traffic dick move. People are going to just say good riddance, which is a shame, because the sentiment behind the protests are a good, but the way it's getting carried out is just killing the message.
Do you think the average Joe now getting the story that Jennifer Fox, Occupy Seattle protester, lied about being pregnant, being kicked by police, and having a miscarriage as a result is going to care about the imminent moves to evict the protesters? They've already aggravated folks with the stupid block traffic dick move. People are going to just say good riddance, which is a shame, because the sentiment behind the protests are a good, but the way it's getting carried out is just killing the message.
112
@ 108, I tend to disagree, because this is the blog side, not the news side. But Rob @ 111 has a point about how other blogs ran with it.
@ 110, that's a broad generalization that simply isn't true. Sure, some dummies will do that, but most know that any movement attracts nuts and attention seekers.
@ 111, if OS as a whole has aggravated a lot of people (and following the comments here, I'd say they have, especially with the bridge last week), that's independent of this one thing.
@ 110, that's a broad generalization that simply isn't true. Sure, some dummies will do that, but most know that any movement attracts nuts and attention seekers.
@ 111, if OS as a whole has aggravated a lot of people (and following the comments here, I'd say they have, especially with the bridge last week), that's independent of this one thing.
113
Jennifer Fox is exactly the kind of person I think about when I think of people who self-identify as "progressives".
Most "progressives" and their "progressive" ideas are actually detrimental to real "progress".
Most "progressives" and their "progressive" ideas are actually detrimental to real "progress".
114
112
That's not how the everyday citizen is going to read it. The protesters' message is getting lost in poorly planned stunts that only serve to hurt, and aggravate the very people the Occupy movement claims to care about.
Now Fox is the poster child of the movement. Folks are not going to readily believe reports of police abuse. With all the reports of drug use at the camps, people are going to see this,
http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/img/p… and think "Faces of Meth".
if OS as a whole has aggravated a lot of people (and following the comments here, I'd say they have, especially with the bridge last week), that's independent of this one thing.
That's not how the everyday citizen is going to read it. The protesters' message is getting lost in poorly planned stunts that only serve to hurt, and aggravate the very people the Occupy movement claims to care about.
Now Fox is the poster child of the movement. Folks are not going to readily believe reports of police abuse. With all the reports of drug use at the camps, people are going to see this,
http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/img/p… and think "Faces of Meth".
115
Like the kids say, haters gonna hate.
The opposition WILL use it, no doubt, but I really don't think it'll have much impact in the long run. I worry more about the honestly unhelpful things Occupy as a whole is doing (like calling for revolution and blocking bridges at rush hour) than what one person does.
The opposition WILL use it, no doubt, but I really don't think it'll have much impact in the long run. I worry more about the honestly unhelpful things Occupy as a whole is doing (like calling for revolution and blocking bridges at rush hour) than what one person does.
116
Best guess: She had the miscarriage during the incident nine weeks ago, and when she went to the doctor after the protest she still had the long-since-dead fetus in her body.
118
Matt @ 112: Usually I agree with you, but "blog side"? How is Slog not an "official" part of The Stranger? I don't think, for example, The Stranger would be exempt from any libel just because it's on the "blog side".
Basic journalism procedures apply here too...
Basic journalism procedures apply here too...
119
@ 118, that's true, but blogs are where raw stories go. And, again, they highlighted that it wasn't confirmed.
120
@112: Sorry, you can't say you have different rules for news reporting that appears on Slog vs. the rest of the site. It all runs together, with news stories appearing in both places.
It was an egregious lack of judgement to print the original story. Now Dominic is trying to pretend he's a real journalist to cover his ass.
It was an egregious lack of judgement to print the original story. Now Dominic is trying to pretend he's a real journalist to cover his ass.
121
Shout out to the commenter who told me to "go to hell slut" after I questioned this woman's claims.
123
@122 "That is really medically doubtful."
This is politics, not science. Whether she was 12 months pregnant or 2 days pregnant, the police are fascists!
This is politics, not science. Whether she was 12 months pregnant or 2 days pregnant, the police are fascists!
124
Anyone look at Miss Fox? Does anyone think she could get a job even if she wanted one?
http://flic.kr/p/aJnDGe
http://flic.kr/p/aJnDGe
126
You can count me as one of those "stupids" who are turned off from the Occupy movement by this story. However, it isn't just this story.
I did some research when I first started getting news about it. At that time my biggest complaint was that they weren't very good at communicating their aims. As a liberal who has attended quite a few liberal protests (before I became too busy gestating and raising children), I have many friends who post about it constantly. I admit, I don't research every complaint about the police that they send me, but I started clicking links when I had a free moment. Over 80% of the links they send me about Occupy Vs. the Police are either entirely unsubstantiated, misleading, or turn out to be completely false. It's sad, because posts about actual police brutality get lost in these these sensationalized stories. I find myself becoming very disappointed in my friends, who pass on these links without even watching the videos or reading the full stories they link to.
I would not consider myself to be a "stupid", but when I'm bombarded by misinformation and sensationalism over and over by a movement's supporters, YES it turns me against the movement. It isn't a matter of "stupidity", simply a natural response.
I did some research when I first started getting news about it. At that time my biggest complaint was that they weren't very good at communicating their aims. As a liberal who has attended quite a few liberal protests (before I became too busy gestating and raising children), I have many friends who post about it constantly. I admit, I don't research every complaint about the police that they send me, but I started clicking links when I had a free moment. Over 80% of the links they send me about Occupy Vs. the Police are either entirely unsubstantiated, misleading, or turn out to be completely false. It's sad, because posts about actual police brutality get lost in these these sensationalized stories. I find myself becoming very disappointed in my friends, who pass on these links without even watching the videos or reading the full stories they link to.
I would not consider myself to be a "stupid", but when I'm bombarded by misinformation and sensationalism over and over by a movement's supporters, YES it turns me against the movement. It isn't a matter of "stupidity", simply a natural response.
127
This is disgusting. Can you imagine some douche penny-ante weekly paper "journalist" grilling you for details and medical records for your miscarriage? It is utterly reprehensible behavior and not good journalism. What, exactly, are you hoping to accomplish besides making yourself look like a sensationalist douchebag?
128
"Can you imagine some douche penny-ante weekly paper "journalist" grilling you for details and medical records for your miscarriage?"
Can you imagine lying about being pregnant?
Can you imagine lying about being pregnant?
129
I agree to a certain extent; the great thing about blogs in general is how commenters can cast doubts and raise questions that weren't brought up in the original story, especially someplace like Slog which has an unusually intelligent commentariat.
But, her story was riddled with holes and obvious exaggerations/falsehoods from the very beginning. Dominic should have made note of those problems in the original piece and not waited for us to pick her story apart.
and the way Fox was telling her story should have made everyone raise an eyebrow and reserve judgment then.
I agree to a certain extent; the great thing about blogs in general is how commenters can cast doubts and raise questions that weren't brought up in the original story, especially someplace like Slog which has an unusually intelligent commentariat.
But, her story was riddled with holes and obvious exaggerations/falsehoods from the very beginning. Dominic should have made note of those problems in the original piece and not waited for us to pick her story apart.
131
@118, 120: Oh come on. It's very standard practice to run breaking news, "developing stories," and post-story updates in news blogs. All the necessary caveats were in place. Spare us the disingenuous breathless "Well I never" routine.
132
The left wing loonie tunes at Daily Kos and Democraticunderground are going nuts on this. As many frauds as they have been through and been humiliated about; you would think they would learn. But being the children they are, they just eat these obvious lies up and start yelling and screaming "imprison the cops!" Then when the obvious sinks in, that another left wing looney tune is making up the story, they just stop mentioning it.
133
...Or it could just be she doesn't want to be bothered with dealing with everyone's bullsh*t when she just lost her baby and is in recovery from her assault.
Having worked in a hospital I can safely assure you spending hours fighting with red tape & paperwork is not something a person cares to do at the best of times.
Frankly, most people don't bother to insert themselves into a situation where you have to sit in waiting rooms and deal administrative services for hours unless they have a serious personal reason to do it. If I was in the middle of going about my daily work and someone showed up and offered me a ride somewhere so I could get paperwork to show that total stranger I'm not lying? I'd tell them to f**k off.
Be realistic. She may be lying, but she also just may not see helping you in your harassment of her as a high priority.
Oh, be prepare to shell out bucks to pay for her medical records .It isn't free. And if she's homeless, she probably can't afford to pay for them. And since you want them, you should pay for them. Unless HIPPA is different in your state...?
This "article" reads like a slam piece TBH.
Having worked in a hospital I can safely assure you spending hours fighting with red tape & paperwork is not something a person cares to do at the best of times.
Frankly, most people don't bother to insert themselves into a situation where you have to sit in waiting rooms and deal administrative services for hours unless they have a serious personal reason to do it. If I was in the middle of going about my daily work and someone showed up and offered me a ride somewhere so I could get paperwork to show that total stranger I'm not lying? I'd tell them to f**k off.
Be realistic. She may be lying, but she also just may not see helping you in your harassment of her as a high priority.
Oh, be prepare to shell out bucks to pay for her medical records .It isn't free. And if she's homeless, she probably can't afford to pay for them. And since you want them, you should pay for them. Unless HIPPA is different in your state...?
This "article" reads like a slam piece TBH.
134
@ 133, don't be stupid. If she COULD be bothered to tell the whole world, than she CAN be bothered to prove it.
It's just that simple.
It's just that simple.
135
Matt, there's so much stoopid in these comments I've given up on even trying to respond to them. But yeah, @133's a beaut.
136
@134 & @135. Actually you're showing an absolute ignorance of how a situation goes down with indie reporters like myself or the writer of this article. Picture this situation;
indie Reporter; "I'd like to ask some questions."
Interviewee (in this case OWS woman) "Who are you with?"
Indie Reporter "The daily Slog."
Interviewee "The daily what?"
He then proceeds to ask a number of questions which she's wary about answering to a total stranger from some small, unknown blog.
This person claiming to be a newsreporter then says;
"Get in my car and I'll drive you there!"
So we've got a strange man inviting a woman he doesn't know to join her for a car ride that she's supposed to hope ends up with him not raping and killing her. And if you think that's ridiculous to put forward, I suggest the next time you need to go somewhere, try hitchhiking. According to you, it's safe.
A more honest approach would have been to wait until she went down to see this case worker of hers. Ask that she request permission to let you contact the caseworker in question after she sees him/ her for confirmation.
Request that she fill out a "permission to divulge Personal Information" form so that the case worker can speak to you.
I know how to do this sort of thing because it's part of my job. My way you end up with a secondary, unbiased, confirmable source. If she doesn't follow through? Then she looks unreasonable and you can do the above article.
Dominic's way? You just come across as a creepy d*ck who's trying to get a job with Fox News.
indie Reporter; "I'd like to ask some questions."
Interviewee (in this case OWS woman) "Who are you with?"
Indie Reporter "The daily Slog."
Interviewee "The daily what?"
He then proceeds to ask a number of questions which she's wary about answering to a total stranger from some small, unknown blog.
This person claiming to be a newsreporter then says;
"Get in my car and I'll drive you there!"
So we've got a strange man inviting a woman he doesn't know to join her for a car ride that she's supposed to hope ends up with him not raping and killing her. And if you think that's ridiculous to put forward, I suggest the next time you need to go somewhere, try hitchhiking. According to you, it's safe.
A more honest approach would have been to wait until she went down to see this case worker of hers. Ask that she request permission to let you contact the caseworker in question after she sees him/ her for confirmation.
Request that she fill out a "permission to divulge Personal Information" form so that the case worker can speak to you.
I know how to do this sort of thing because it's part of my job. My way you end up with a secondary, unbiased, confirmable source. If she doesn't follow through? Then she looks unreasonable and you can do the above article.
Dominic's way? You just come across as a creepy d*ck who's trying to get a job with Fox News.
137
@134 I totally agree. "Fox has conducted several interviews with local and national media, and said she plans to consult an attorney." If she has time to conduct interviews with media personnel she can surely provide factual evidence of her miscarriage. Purportedly, the hospital is a mere 5 minutes from the OWS camp in Seattle. In fact, she doesn't even have to leave, "she declined to sign a waiver allowing reporters to obtain the documents independently". If she is telling the truth, she's doing a downright awful job of substantiating her claims. Which is all they really are right now, claims.
138
Nope, you're the one demonstrating the ignorance here (and a pretty astonishing amount of it at that). She came to Slog with her story, not the other way around. This second contact was by way of a follow-up.
You don't run to the media with your story and then turn around the next day and say "sorry, that's too much information."
BTW, you could stand to brush up on HIPPA a bit too. It has nothing to do with fees.
You don't run to the media with your story and then turn around the next day and say "sorry, that's too much information."
BTW, you could stand to brush up on HIPPA a bit too. It has nothing to do with fees.
139
@136 You say she should fill out a "permission to divulge Personal Information" form? Like the one she denied filling out already? "She declined to sign a waiver allowing reporters to obtain the documents independently," from the Seattle Times article.
When someone makes as big a claim as Jennifer Fox is making, it is vital to be able to back it up with evidence. Not only is she not doing anything to substantiate her claims, she is actually hindering anyone from verifying her story. If what happened to her is true, she's doing a great job of getting people to doubt it.
When someone makes as big a claim as Jennifer Fox is making, it is vital to be able to back it up with evidence. Not only is she not doing anything to substantiate her claims, she is actually hindering anyone from verifying her story. If what happened to her is true, she's doing a great job of getting people to doubt it.
140
Dominic wastes his time and "credibility" on this bullshit liar, but for some strange reason Slog STILL REFUSES to cover the story of the recent near-fatal attack on openly-gay salon owner Danny Vega.
GEE I WONDER WHY SLOG WON'T COVER THE DANNY VEGA ATTACK?
A GAY MAN IN SEATTLE LIES IN A COMA ON LIFE SUPPORT AFTER BEING VICIOUSLY ATTACKED AND SLOG REFUSES TO MENTION IT AT ALL.
WHAT THE FUCK, Slog!!!!!
GEE I WONDER WHY SLOG WON'T COVER THE DANNY VEGA ATTACK?
A GAY MAN IN SEATTLE LIES IN A COMA ON LIFE SUPPORT AFTER BEING VICIOUSLY ATTACKED AND SLOG REFUSES TO MENTION IT AT ALL.
WHAT THE FUCK, Slog!!!!!
141
@139 So according to you, the fact that she didn't want to give a bunch of strangers permission to go down to the hospital to access her personal records, that she would rather wait 3-4 days to do it and keep her privacy intact makes her guilty?
Here's my advice to anyone out there. When someone claiming to be a reporter refuses to wait 3-4 days for you to provide information in a manner that is reasonable demands that you give a legal waiver giving them access to your personal hospital records? Don't do it.
You have absolutely no guarantee that the people in question will behave in a responsible fashion.
And you're trying to put forward the claim that; "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". Or in this case; "Extraordinary measures."
You're suggesting that by her not doing it the way the reporters demanded of her to do it, that waiting 3-4 days would be catastrophic and therefore extraordinary steps must be taken to provide evidence.
Sorry. That doesn't apply here. That's Glenn Beck logic.
It would be up to the DA's office to get that information if the repercussions were so serious it demanded immediate action.
Not a bunch of hack reporters with questionable reputations.
Oh, what's that you say? The reporters don't have questionable reputations?
Then please have the reporters provide me signed waivers giving me permission to look into their criminal records, their credit scores, etc.. so I can determine if their reputations are questionable or not.
To quote you; "When someone makes as big a claim as (cross out "Jennifer Fox" and insert reporter's names) is making, it is vital to be able to back it up with evidence. "
Signed;
"TheTruePooka" on YouTube.
More...
Here's my advice to anyone out there. When someone claiming to be a reporter refuses to wait 3-4 days for you to provide information in a manner that is reasonable demands that you give a legal waiver giving them access to your personal hospital records? Don't do it.
You have absolutely no guarantee that the people in question will behave in a responsible fashion.
And you're trying to put forward the claim that; "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". Or in this case; "Extraordinary measures."
You're suggesting that by her not doing it the way the reporters demanded of her to do it, that waiting 3-4 days would be catastrophic and therefore extraordinary steps must be taken to provide evidence.
Sorry. That doesn't apply here. That's Glenn Beck logic.
It would be up to the DA's office to get that information if the repercussions were so serious it demanded immediate action.
Not a bunch of hack reporters with questionable reputations.
Oh, what's that you say? The reporters don't have questionable reputations?
Then please have the reporters provide me signed waivers giving me permission to look into their criminal records, their credit scores, etc.. so I can determine if their reputations are questionable or not.
To quote you; "When someone makes as big a claim as (cross out "Jennifer Fox" and insert reporter's names) is making, it is vital to be able to back it up with evidence. "
Signed;
"TheTruePooka" on YouTube.
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@138 re HIPPA: The HIPAA privacy standards section 164.524 (c)(4) <-- deals with charging fees. Feel free to Google and brush up on it.
And where in this article does it say; "She contacted this blog"? I'd like a signed waiver giving me permission to go into the blog's emails to get confirmation please.
"You're making big claims and that requires big evidence'" >.
And where in this article does it say; "She contacted this blog"? I'd like a signed waiver giving me permission to go into the blog's emails to get confirmation please.
"You're making big claims and that requires big evidence'" >.
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Look, you people are missing the point. I'm not saying she isn't lying. If she doesn't pony up by end of next week then I would at that point dismiss her claims due to lack of corroborating evidence.
My problem is that the reporter in question here jumped the gun on doing a piece that clearly is designed to suggest the woman is lying.
It casts doubt on the veracity of the reporter's claims. In the end run he does himself a disservice.
Remember, this was written on the 22nd, without foreknowledge of events to come. If it turns out she's lying? Then the reporter got lucky. If she pony's up the information? He just screwed himself.
My problem is that the reporter in question here jumped the gun on doing a piece that clearly is designed to suggest the woman is lying.
It casts doubt on the veracity of the reporter's claims. In the end run he does himself a disservice.
Remember, this was written on the 22nd, without foreknowledge of events to come. If it turns out she's lying? Then the reporter got lucky. If she pony's up the information? He just screwed himself.
144
@141 -
Taking an hour out of your day when 1) someone offers you a ride, 2) you are unemployed, homeless and all you are doing is sitting around in a park doing nothing and 3) you had preciously told the reporter you would obtain the papers for them but never bothered to hardly qualifies as "extraordinary measures", especially when you are making such serious claims as having miscarried as a result of police brutality and apparently giving as many interviews as you can find to make the news public and gain sympathy and support for your claims. Especially when she is implicating the hospital and medical practitioners, claiming they have verified as fact that her alleged miscarriage happened as a direct result of the incident in question. Given how public she has been with her claims, I would qualify it not as an "extraordinary measure" to produce the proof she clams exists a matter of blocks away, but rather a "quick errand" and "simple way to back up your claims and not sound like a lying idiot".
While I'm here, let's look at some of the FACTS of this issue;
1. She is a teeneager.
2. She is a teenager who is homeless.
3. She is a teenager who ishomeless and gets pregnant.
4. She is a teenager who is homeless, gets herself pregnant and decides to keep the baby BECAUSE her family was going to support her in taking care of the child (though, somehow, they are not providing her a safe place to live while pregnant?)
5. She is a teenager whi is homeless, gets pregnant, decides to keep the baby because her family will support it - and decides to go to a protest which she KNOWS may potentially involve confrontation from / with the police as other Occupy protests have experienced.
She is an irresponsible idiot.
More facts!:
6. She claimed she was 3 month pregnant, yet she also claims the fetus was 10 weeks old when it dies (10 weeks does not equal 3 months).
7. she claims she found out he was pregnant because her stomach was getting bigger, so she went to the doctor and they told her she was 1 month pregnant. Really? She was noticeably showing 1 month after conception?
8. When she was arrested in September, she claimed she was 3 months pregnant. She also claims that she lost one of the twins with which she was pregnant as a result of that incident.
9. When originally asked about having been arrested in September and claiming at the time she was 3 months pregnant at the time, and lost ONE of the two fetuses as a result of the police's treatment of her, she didn't even remember the incident.
10. Her family has publicly called her a compulsive liar, a wanna-be drama queen and said that she never mentioned being pregnant and that they have no reason to believe she ever was.
11. She is claiming that she lost one of her twin fetuses because of how police treated her in September, and then lost the second fetus because of how police treated her two months later. Given her experience with how police allegedly treat pregnant women (back in September), she chose to take her pregnant self to a protest. Where people are not only just peacefully protesting, but people are also doing drugs, having sex, masturbating, fighting and causing all kinds of problems in public. Regardless of the goal or intent of any protest, "peaceful" or not, it is not the place for a woman in her first trimester carrying the one fetus out of two that survived an alleged attack by the police just two months prior.
Yes, people should be allowed to peacefully demonstrate without fear of police brutality or even intimidation. But the unfortunate fact is, that is not reality. It is commonly known that even peaceful protests quite often result in violence. Right or wrong, regardless of who is at fault, that is simply the truth of it.
No, women should not stop living their lives when they get pregnant, but the fact is that if you are pregnant, your primary responsibility in life is to protect your unborn baby, and all of your decisions should be made to the benefit of that baby - not in spite of it.
If this girl was pregnant, she knowingly chose to put herself and her fetus in a specifically questionable and possibly physically harmful situation - rather than taking steps to better her situation and protect her fetus. This is why teenagers should not be getting pregnant; they are not of the mind to make decisions based on anything other than what they want for themselves - they are selfish.
More...
Taking an hour out of your day when 1) someone offers you a ride, 2) you are unemployed, homeless and all you are doing is sitting around in a park doing nothing and 3) you had preciously told the reporter you would obtain the papers for them but never bothered to hardly qualifies as "extraordinary measures", especially when you are making such serious claims as having miscarried as a result of police brutality and apparently giving as many interviews as you can find to make the news public and gain sympathy and support for your claims. Especially when she is implicating the hospital and medical practitioners, claiming they have verified as fact that her alleged miscarriage happened as a direct result of the incident in question. Given how public she has been with her claims, I would qualify it not as an "extraordinary measure" to produce the proof she clams exists a matter of blocks away, but rather a "quick errand" and "simple way to back up your claims and not sound like a lying idiot".
While I'm here, let's look at some of the FACTS of this issue;
1. She is a teeneager.
2. She is a teenager who is homeless.
3. She is a teenager who ishomeless and gets pregnant.
4. She is a teenager who is homeless, gets herself pregnant and decides to keep the baby BECAUSE her family was going to support her in taking care of the child (though, somehow, they are not providing her a safe place to live while pregnant?)
5. She is a teenager whi is homeless, gets pregnant, decides to keep the baby because her family will support it - and decides to go to a protest which she KNOWS may potentially involve confrontation from / with the police as other Occupy protests have experienced.
She is an irresponsible idiot.
More facts!:
6. She claimed she was 3 month pregnant, yet she also claims the fetus was 10 weeks old when it dies (10 weeks does not equal 3 months).
7. she claims she found out he was pregnant because her stomach was getting bigger, so she went to the doctor and they told her she was 1 month pregnant. Really? She was noticeably showing 1 month after conception?
8. When she was arrested in September, she claimed she was 3 months pregnant. She also claims that she lost one of the twins with which she was pregnant as a result of that incident.
9. When originally asked about having been arrested in September and claiming at the time she was 3 months pregnant at the time, and lost ONE of the two fetuses as a result of the police's treatment of her, she didn't even remember the incident.
10. Her family has publicly called her a compulsive liar, a wanna-be drama queen and said that she never mentioned being pregnant and that they have no reason to believe she ever was.
11. She is claiming that she lost one of her twin fetuses because of how police treated her in September, and then lost the second fetus because of how police treated her two months later. Given her experience with how police allegedly treat pregnant women (back in September), she chose to take her pregnant self to a protest. Where people are not only just peacefully protesting, but people are also doing drugs, having sex, masturbating, fighting and causing all kinds of problems in public. Regardless of the goal or intent of any protest, "peaceful" or not, it is not the place for a woman in her first trimester carrying the one fetus out of two that survived an alleged attack by the police just two months prior.
Yes, people should be allowed to peacefully demonstrate without fear of police brutality or even intimidation. But the unfortunate fact is, that is not reality. It is commonly known that even peaceful protests quite often result in violence. Right or wrong, regardless of who is at fault, that is simply the truth of it.
No, women should not stop living their lives when they get pregnant, but the fact is that if you are pregnant, your primary responsibility in life is to protect your unborn baby, and all of your decisions should be made to the benefit of that baby - not in spite of it.
If this girl was pregnant, she knowingly chose to put herself and her fetus in a specifically questionable and possibly physically harmful situation - rather than taking steps to better her situation and protect her fetus. This is why teenagers should not be getting pregnant; they are not of the mind to make decisions based on anything other than what they want for themselves - they are selfish.
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What isn't fake is the acts of Seattle Police brutality agianst what seems to be a large number of women. Dorli, Jennifer, Patricia and others were all treated quite inhumanely. The crazy thing is that it is all on video on youtube. This brutality has got to end!
http://www.youtube.com/user/IowaBoyDave
http://www.youtube.com/user/IowaBoyDave
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@144 Yeah, it isn't an hour of your day. That's the equivalent of the conservative *ss who says to someone; "Why don't you get a job" when we've got the highest unemployment since the depression. Having worked at a hospital I can safely say that what you're requesting is at least a half a day, if not longer.
And your assumption that; "because she's homeless she has nothing better to do." is classic elitist presumption.
"facts" 1-5: She may be an irresponsible idiot but that doesn't mean she's lying. You're doing what is known as; "a strawman argument".
& fact 5? Based on that logic she should never be in a car. I'm guessing the likelihood of injury in a car accident is higher than getting hurt at an OWS protest. Are you ready to start a campaign disallowing pregnant woman from being in vehicles?
6 - 11. At this point I'd want to hear the original recorded quotes because I'm so perplexed and amazed that you people are so hell bent on proving this woman is guilty in advance of waiting a few days for evidence that I am suspicious of any claims you make.
I just had a lovely, reasonable exchange on facebook with a bunch of other people. We all came to the conclusion that while she's likely lying, the responsible thing to do is wait until she provided evidence this week as promised or the D.A. retrieved the evidence. I'm floored by the determination of the people in this comments section/ blog to assume; "guilty until proven innocence". So I take none of your claims of "fact" at face value. Facts or GTFO.
I now demand evidence - in the form of confirmation on quotes from the person in question or voice recording.
And now we come back to the original claim before this whole "is she lying?" thing began.
"It's her fault."
So your conclusion is; "She's lying. But even if she isn't lying, it's her fault."
No, it isn't. It's the policemen's fault. As has been pointed out there was absolutely no reason for the violence that happened in that circumstance. She wasn't charging down a line of police with riot gear, she was peacefully demonstrating. But this is nothing new. The assumption now is if you get arrested is that you've given up the right to any consideration or treatment, which is effectively saying;
"You are guilty until proven innocent."
Your entire line of reasoning is bullshit. It's an attempt by antiabortionists to shift the blame onto women because the antiabortionist doesn't want to be in the position of siding with what they view as a liberal protest.
You know what? I'm done with all of you unless I do a video on the topic. I've been meaning to do a video on the topic of; "Innocent until proven guilty" and how the recent conservative trend in this country is to use propaganda to try to change the law and do away with that basic premise of the American Justice system.
Realize this whole debate between all of you and myself started because one person (me) stood up and said;
"Hey. Let's wait until the facts are in before we determine guilt."
But apparently y'all can't have that. And you wonder why none of us take conservatives seriously.
More...
And your assumption that; "because she's homeless she has nothing better to do." is classic elitist presumption.
"facts" 1-5: She may be an irresponsible idiot but that doesn't mean she's lying. You're doing what is known as; "a strawman argument".
& fact 5? Based on that logic she should never be in a car. I'm guessing the likelihood of injury in a car accident is higher than getting hurt at an OWS protest. Are you ready to start a campaign disallowing pregnant woman from being in vehicles?
6 - 11. At this point I'd want to hear the original recorded quotes because I'm so perplexed and amazed that you people are so hell bent on proving this woman is guilty in advance of waiting a few days for evidence that I am suspicious of any claims you make.
I just had a lovely, reasonable exchange on facebook with a bunch of other people. We all came to the conclusion that while she's likely lying, the responsible thing to do is wait until she provided evidence this week as promised or the D.A. retrieved the evidence. I'm floored by the determination of the people in this comments section/ blog to assume; "guilty until proven innocence". So I take none of your claims of "fact" at face value. Facts or GTFO.
I now demand evidence - in the form of confirmation on quotes from the person in question or voice recording.
And now we come back to the original claim before this whole "is she lying?" thing began.
"It's her fault."
So your conclusion is; "She's lying. But even if she isn't lying, it's her fault."
No, it isn't. It's the policemen's fault. As has been pointed out there was absolutely no reason for the violence that happened in that circumstance. She wasn't charging down a line of police with riot gear, she was peacefully demonstrating. But this is nothing new. The assumption now is if you get arrested is that you've given up the right to any consideration or treatment, which is effectively saying;
"You are guilty until proven innocent."
Your entire line of reasoning is bullshit. It's an attempt by antiabortionists to shift the blame onto women because the antiabortionist doesn't want to be in the position of siding with what they view as a liberal protest.
You know what? I'm done with all of you unless I do a video on the topic. I've been meaning to do a video on the topic of; "Innocent until proven guilty" and how the recent conservative trend in this country is to use propaganda to try to change the law and do away with that basic premise of the American Justice system.
Realize this whole debate between all of you and myself started because one person (me) stood up and said;
"Hey. Let's wait until the facts are in before we determine guilt."
But apparently y'all can't have that. And you wonder why none of us take conservatives seriously.
149
Gotta love how this cocksucker Holden rushes out a fake story of police abuse and a miscarriage but totally fucking ignores an actual reported rape at Occupy Seattle just last Friday when an unconscience woman was found naked from the top down, in her tent. I guess Phantom fetuses are more important than real rape victims.
150
If she had an actual miscarriage it is something extremely sad. But since she has not filed an actual complaint or tried to sue the police i think it highly unlikely. Seriously think about it, you think she has not been contacted by a dozen attorneys by now?
And pepper spray caused a miscarriage? Ummm it hurts like hell but its less dangerous to your person than cutting an jalapeno. If you have ever cut some of the hotter chilis you know what i mean if the acids in them stay on your skin for too long. Pepper spray does not contain these acids. It knocks you on your rear but it doesn't do damage.
Alot of selective reporting has been done in regards to the entire movement. And he supposed miscarriage seems to be another attempt to demonize police.
And pepper spray caused a miscarriage? Ummm it hurts like hell but its less dangerous to your person than cutting an jalapeno. If you have ever cut some of the hotter chilis you know what i mean if the acids in them stay on your skin for too long. Pepper spray does not contain these acids. It knocks you on your rear but it doesn't do damage.
Alot of selective reporting has been done in regards to the entire movement. And he supposed miscarriage seems to be another attempt to demonize police.
151
@98: Occam's Razor. What is easier to believe - that Jennifer Fox is somehow an innocent who has repeated, months-long, fully-immersive hallucinations that she's miscarried anytime she gets attention, or that she's figured out that lying is a shortcut to getting what she wants?
If she's so damaged, or developmentally disabled, or drug addicted, or whatever other excuses people are making up for her behavior, she needs to be in proper care. If she's just another barnacle on the ass of OWS, she deserves to be ostracized. There's no way to repair the harm she's done by braying her lies to any news outlet that would listen.
Making up stories about sexual assault is reprehensible. To someone who has faced actual sexual assault, it feels like another violent attack. If Jennifer Fox produces evidence that she lost a fetus due to police action (any one of the fetuses she's claimed to lose in the last three months) then I'll eat my hat.
In the meantime, I hope (against all realistic expectation) that Jennifer Fox's revelation as a filthy liar will go as viral as her original filthy lies did.
Zero tolerance for sexual assault. Zero tolerance for people who lie about sexual assault for personal gain.
If she's so damaged, or developmentally disabled, or drug addicted, or whatever other excuses people are making up for her behavior, she needs to be in proper care. If she's just another barnacle on the ass of OWS, she deserves to be ostracized. There's no way to repair the harm she's done by braying her lies to any news outlet that would listen.
Making up stories about sexual assault is reprehensible. To someone who has faced actual sexual assault, it feels like another violent attack. If Jennifer Fox produces evidence that she lost a fetus due to police action (any one of the fetuses she's claimed to lose in the last three months) then I'll eat my hat.
In the meantime, I hope (against all realistic expectation) that Jennifer Fox's revelation as a filthy liar will go as viral as her original filthy lies did.
Zero tolerance for sexual assault. Zero tolerance for people who lie about sexual assault for personal gain.
152
Next, will come some excuse, like the hospital lost her records, or she'll claim that she's been advised to not release them. That is if she doesn't go into hiding to avoid the consequences of her deceptions.
153
Jennifer Fox is not the issue here, dudes. The issue is the brutal and deliberate targeting of women during this protest. There is video on the IowaBoyDave YouTube site that not only shows the SPD’s disdain for protesters, but disregard for the safety of bystanders.
There is a video corroborating the story Jennifer Fox told The Stranger. Seattle Police struck the crowd with their bikes and fists before during and after the pepper spray attack. The videos are brutal.
If Jennifer Fox did communicate to the SPD that she was pregnant; "Let me out! I'm pregnant!," and was ignored before being beaten and sprayed, why is this a conversation? If it turns out that Jennifer Fox has no evidence of being pregnant, does it excuse the Seattle Police Department's brutal actions against what seems to be a whoe lot of women?
There is a video corroborating the story Jennifer Fox told The Stranger. Seattle Police struck the crowd with their bikes and fists before during and after the pepper spray attack. The videos are brutal.
If Jennifer Fox did communicate to the SPD that she was pregnant; "Let me out! I'm pregnant!," and was ignored before being beaten and sprayed, why is this a conversation? If it turns out that Jennifer Fox has no evidence of being pregnant, does it excuse the Seattle Police Department's brutal actions against what seems to be a whoe lot of women?
154
153, Pepper spray was not necessary in this instance, but in none of videos I've seen was anyone punched or kicked. The police are obligated to keep the protesters out of the street. The bicycle barrier is a standard crowd control measure, used nationwide. In many cases the mobile barrier is a line of police with riot shields. Again, going back to the video, the only thing I saw was the police giving the order to, "Move back", and then advancing one step forward at a time. Nobody appeared to be using their bikes as weapons. You're assuming that Fox telling the truth about being kicked. Yes, along with the rest of the crowd, (no one was specifically targeted in any video I've seen) she got pepper sprayed. No credible evidence has been offered to show that any of her claims are true.
I'm for the protests. I agree with the message, but that massage is getting lost in the asinine, poorly planned stunts, and the hysteria. It's only going to serve to drive a wedge between the protesters, and the majority of the 99%.
I'm for the protests. I agree with the message, but that massage is getting lost in the asinine, poorly planned stunts, and the hysteria. It's only going to serve to drive a wedge between the protesters, and the majority of the 99%.
155
And in other news...
http://mynorthwest.com/11/582967/Pregnan…
97.3 KIRO FM has learned that Fox was once suspected of trying to lure two young children away from their mother. In a police report dated August 3, 2011, a mother stated a young woman had approached her daughters at Seattle's Pritchard Beach Park during a swimming lesson. Police sources confirm that woman was Fox.
"(The mother) stated she observed (Fox) approach her children as they made their way from the lake to her car," read the report. "(The mother) stated she could tell that (Fox) was asking the children questions by the way they were acting."
When the mother confronted Fox, Fox stated she was a swimming coach in Bellevue and was offering the children lessons.
"Fox stated she had just returned from Greece where she had won every event she had entered in a swim meet," according to the report. The girls told their mother Fox had asked them to leave with her, and had offered them a ride if they came to Bellevue to swim with her.
Lifeguards at the facility decided to call police, who questioned Fox upon arrival.
"(Fox) stated she had been trained as a swimming coach while on the 'Special Olympics team.' (Fox) stated she had 48 gold medals."
Officers determined Fox "may be suffering from a mental illness or drug addiction," and allowed her to leave, with the condition that she not return to the park.
http://mynorthwest.com/11/582967/Pregnan…
156
LOL this shit just gets funnier every day!!!!
Only a naive guileless fool couldn't see this coming.
Only a naive guileless fool couldn't see this coming.
157
When Pook says "used to work in a hospital", that means "used to take out the garbage from the maternity ward". Keep up the good work, Pook!
160
@148 - OK, so it takes half a day. Then she should take half of one of the days that she is sitting around doing nothing at the Occupy encampment and get the papers. if she has over three months time on hand to sit around at a protest encampment (rather than improving her life situation for her baby), how does she not have half a day to pick up the one thing that would prove beyond any doubt her VERY PUBLIC accusation that a police officer MURDERED HER UNBORN BABY??? Would that NOT be the highest priority when you are talking to "two or three lawyers" - and any member of the press you can find - about suing??? So tell me - what DOES she have to do that keeps her so busy she can't get the papers...???
Also - I never said Facts 1-5 make her a liar, you moron - I said they make her an irresponsible idiot.
As far as your response RE: fact #5? You f-ing moron, read the rest of my post first. "No, women should not stop living their lives when they get pregnant, but the fact is that if you are pregnant, your primary responsibility in life is to protect your unborn baby, and all of your decisions should be made to the benefit of that baby - not in spite of it." That whole "oh, then I guess pregnant women should stay out of cars and stay off of stairs" analogy is so f-ing stupid I'm not even going to debate it with you. Moron. And exactly what are you claiming "us people" are accusing her of being "guilty" of? I simply said she is a selfish, irresponsible idiot.
"So your conclusion is; "She's lying. But even if she isn't lying, it's her fault." - I never said it was her fault - though she herself did say she was FORCING her way through towards the police while yelling.
"The assumption now is if you get arrested is that you've given up the right to any consideration or treatment, which is effectively saying; "You are guilty until proven innocent." Your entire line of reasoning is bullshit. It's an attempt by antiabortionists to shift the blame onto women because the antiabortionist doesn't want to be in the position of siding with what they view as a liberal protest" WOW - you are batshit crazy. Never did I say ANYTHING relating to ANY of that. I said she is a selfish irresponsible idiot. You, on the other hand, are a delusional psycho. Jeez. Keep in mind, SHE is the one putting all of this info out in the media. Nobody sought her out and forced her into the spotlight. SHE is the one making the accusations - that the police MURDERED HER UNBORN BABY. SHE is the one asking us to assume guilt here without ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL, you fucking idiot.
And I never said she was "guilty" of anything. Though I will say now - if she was pregnant, then she IS guilty of needlessly endangering the well-being of her unborn child. LIKE I SAID - right or wrong, this stuff happens at protests, and that is where she chose to put her pregnant, post-first-miscarriage-of-one-twin self. Regardless of who may be at fault for her alleged injuries, she chose to put herself in the potentially dangerous situation that resulted in the incident. And given the nature of protests, physical conflict with / by the police is completely foreseeable. EVEN IF IT IS WRONG. Idiot.
You are allowed your opinion that homeless unemployed teenagers who are 3 months pregnant with the one surviving twin fetus two months after being attacked by police & losing the first fetus should be spending their time camping on the streets and protesting with drug users, and criminals (and allegedly even rapists?) - and that teenagers who clearly make bad decisions and have been publicly called a compulsive liar by their family should be believed when habitually making public accusations of murder against police officers and that those officers should be considered guilty until proven innocent - If THAT'S the viewpoint you come to after reading all of the documented facts of the story so far, well, there simply is no debate to be had here. You are simply a raging moron.
Wow.
More...
Also - I never said Facts 1-5 make her a liar, you moron - I said they make her an irresponsible idiot.
As far as your response RE: fact #5? You f-ing moron, read the rest of my post first. "No, women should not stop living their lives when they get pregnant, but the fact is that if you are pregnant, your primary responsibility in life is to protect your unborn baby, and all of your decisions should be made to the benefit of that baby - not in spite of it." That whole "oh, then I guess pregnant women should stay out of cars and stay off of stairs" analogy is so f-ing stupid I'm not even going to debate it with you. Moron. And exactly what are you claiming "us people" are accusing her of being "guilty" of? I simply said she is a selfish, irresponsible idiot.
"So your conclusion is; "She's lying. But even if she isn't lying, it's her fault." - I never said it was her fault - though she herself did say she was FORCING her way through towards the police while yelling.
"The assumption now is if you get arrested is that you've given up the right to any consideration or treatment, which is effectively saying; "You are guilty until proven innocent." Your entire line of reasoning is bullshit. It's an attempt by antiabortionists to shift the blame onto women because the antiabortionist doesn't want to be in the position of siding with what they view as a liberal protest" WOW - you are batshit crazy. Never did I say ANYTHING relating to ANY of that. I said she is a selfish irresponsible idiot. You, on the other hand, are a delusional psycho. Jeez. Keep in mind, SHE is the one putting all of this info out in the media. Nobody sought her out and forced her into the spotlight. SHE is the one making the accusations - that the police MURDERED HER UNBORN BABY. SHE is the one asking us to assume guilt here without ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL, you fucking idiot.
And I never said she was "guilty" of anything. Though I will say now - if she was pregnant, then she IS guilty of needlessly endangering the well-being of her unborn child. LIKE I SAID - right or wrong, this stuff happens at protests, and that is where she chose to put her pregnant, post-first-miscarriage-of-one-twin self. Regardless of who may be at fault for her alleged injuries, she chose to put herself in the potentially dangerous situation that resulted in the incident. And given the nature of protests, physical conflict with / by the police is completely foreseeable. EVEN IF IT IS WRONG. Idiot.
You are allowed your opinion that homeless unemployed teenagers who are 3 months pregnant with the one surviving twin fetus two months after being attacked by police & losing the first fetus should be spending their time camping on the streets and protesting with drug users, and criminals (and allegedly even rapists?) - and that teenagers who clearly make bad decisions and have been publicly called a compulsive liar by their family should be believed when habitually making public accusations of murder against police officers and that those officers should be considered guilty until proven innocent - If THAT'S the viewpoint you come to after reading all of the documented facts of the story so far, well, there simply is no debate to be had here. You are simply a raging moron.
Wow.
162
@155: Wow. I wish my friends overseas who have only seen lazy re-posts of Dom's breathless story could see what kind of a worthless tool Jennifer Fox really is.
"Seatlle Police killed an unborn bebbeh!!!1!" is a major narrative of Occupy media coverage. There is no way to alleviate the harm that Jennifer Fox's lies have caused - nor is there a way to make Dom's mea culpa reach as many people as his original link bait. Anyone invested in OWS or women's riights have learned that they can't trust The Stranger or media whores like Jennifer Fox.
"Seatlle Police killed an unborn bebbeh!!!1!" is a major narrative of Occupy media coverage. There is no way to alleviate the harm that Jennifer Fox's lies have caused - nor is there a way to make Dom's mea culpa reach as many people as his original link bait. Anyone invested in OWS or women's riights have learned that they can't trust The Stranger or media whores like Jennifer Fox.
163
@ pook / 148:
YOU are the one here who is "doing what is known as, "a strawman argument", as you so elegantly put it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
You are also the one who is assuming guilt until proven innocent in regards to the accused party, the police officer. Jen Fox accused the police of a crime (murder), and all you hippie douchebags instantly jump on board to support her, regardless of the fact that there is NO EVIDENCE of any miscarriage, pregnancy or even of her being punched or having a bicycle thrown at her (accusations are not evidence). The burden of proof is on the accuser (Jen Fox), and the accuser here REFUSES to present the evidence she claims exists. The accused in this story - the police officer - is to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. I'm so perplexed and amazed that you morons are so hell bent on proving this officer is guilty in advance of waiting a few days for evidence that I am suspicious of any claims you make.
You are such a fucking moron. As you say, "Let's wait until the facts are in before we determine guilt." We're waiting for the facts, but Jennifer Fox refuses to present them.
Because she is lying.
Moron.
YOU are the one here who is "doing what is known as, "a strawman argument", as you so elegantly put it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
You are also the one who is assuming guilt until proven innocent in regards to the accused party, the police officer. Jen Fox accused the police of a crime (murder), and all you hippie douchebags instantly jump on board to support her, regardless of the fact that there is NO EVIDENCE of any miscarriage, pregnancy or even of her being punched or having a bicycle thrown at her (accusations are not evidence). The burden of proof is on the accuser (Jen Fox), and the accuser here REFUSES to present the evidence she claims exists. The accused in this story - the police officer - is to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. I'm so perplexed and amazed that you morons are so hell bent on proving this officer is guilty in advance of waiting a few days for evidence that I am suspicious of any claims you make.
You are such a fucking moron. As you say, "Let's wait until the facts are in before we determine guilt." We're waiting for the facts, but Jennifer Fox refuses to present them.
Because she is lying.
Moron.
164
As a medical professional licensed to practice for over 10 years, I have to ask...
Could we PLEASE just briefly mention some medically established facts about pregnancy and miscarriage here?
Ms. Fox claimed she was either 2months pregnant, or 3 months pregnant.
First, for about the last oh, I can't remember back that far years...pregnancy goes in weeks. Especially amongst women. She would have said 12 weeks, 10 weeks, whatever.
Second, she claims she was having a girl and was planning to name her "Miracle". Great, but a pipe dream at 3 months...errr...I mean 12 weeks. Here I have to diverge into some facts regarding the care plan for medicaid/charity care/homeless patients...
a)they are usually not seen right away for care, and even when they are will only be seen between 10 and 12 weeks for the initial visit.
b)they will not have an ultrasound until some time after that visit. They MAY have a doppler done to detect heartbeat....but unless they are high risk, the ultrasound will be done around 16-18 weeks...even as late as 18-22wks
c)unless medically necessitated, they will not have 3D ultrasounds, or high level new generation ultrasounds. They will have a standard, good old fashioned ultrasound.
OK...so. Given the above, and given the fact that you are really not able to determine a babies sex by regular ultrasound until around 17-20 weeks....well, unless Ms. Fox is a psychic, she was full of crap that "they" had told her it was a girl.
Third...pepper spray does not cause miscarriage.Being kicked in the stomach does not cause miscarriage. DOES...NOT. The fetus is extremely well protected in the amniotic fluid, and the uterus at "3months pregnant" has not even enlarged enough to come up from behind the pubic bone. So in order for a "kick to the stomach" to physically harm that fetus, it would need to be more of a kick to the groin...and might even need to break the pubic bone to reach the fetus. On another note, yes....an EXTREME beating focused on the belly area MIGHT contribute...but the onset would be IMMEDIATELY following the attack...not 5 days later.
Fact of the matter is, 1 out of every 10 pregnancies end in miscarriage during the 1st trimester
(1st 12 weeks) and no one really knows why. They are usually due to chromosomal anomalies that just dont allow the fetus to implant and'or develop normally. There are some other extreme situations having to do with STD's, hormonal issues, and illness...and IF Ms. Fox was actually pregnant at all...I would say she'd be far more likely to have miscarried due to one of those reasons.
Things like stress, pepper spray, and even a blow to the abdomen are traumatic for anyone, including a pregnat woman...but they are generally not causative. Think for a moment of all the women who were newly pregnant when 9/11 hit....could you imagine greater fear, panic, stress, etc. than to be watching that and then find out you lost your spouse? Ans yet they went on to have happy healthy babies.
Ms. Fox was not even pregnant in my humble opinon...but if she was, her miscarriage was in no way caused by anything other than nature or her body.
More...
Could we PLEASE just briefly mention some medically established facts about pregnancy and miscarriage here?
Ms. Fox claimed she was either 2months pregnant, or 3 months pregnant.
First, for about the last oh, I can't remember back that far years...pregnancy goes in weeks. Especially amongst women. She would have said 12 weeks, 10 weeks, whatever.
Second, she claims she was having a girl and was planning to name her "Miracle". Great, but a pipe dream at 3 months...errr...I mean 12 weeks. Here I have to diverge into some facts regarding the care plan for medicaid/charity care/homeless patients...
a)they are usually not seen right away for care, and even when they are will only be seen between 10 and 12 weeks for the initial visit.
b)they will not have an ultrasound until some time after that visit. They MAY have a doppler done to detect heartbeat....but unless they are high risk, the ultrasound will be done around 16-18 weeks...even as late as 18-22wks
c)unless medically necessitated, they will not have 3D ultrasounds, or high level new generation ultrasounds. They will have a standard, good old fashioned ultrasound.
OK...so. Given the above, and given the fact that you are really not able to determine a babies sex by regular ultrasound until around 17-20 weeks....well, unless Ms. Fox is a psychic, she was full of crap that "they" had told her it was a girl.
Third...pepper spray does not cause miscarriage.Being kicked in the stomach does not cause miscarriage. DOES...NOT. The fetus is extremely well protected in the amniotic fluid, and the uterus at "3months pregnant" has not even enlarged enough to come up from behind the pubic bone. So in order for a "kick to the stomach" to physically harm that fetus, it would need to be more of a kick to the groin...and might even need to break the pubic bone to reach the fetus. On another note, yes....an EXTREME beating focused on the belly area MIGHT contribute...but the onset would be IMMEDIATELY following the attack...not 5 days later.
Fact of the matter is, 1 out of every 10 pregnancies end in miscarriage during the 1st trimester
(1st 12 weeks) and no one really knows why. They are usually due to chromosomal anomalies that just dont allow the fetus to implant and'or develop normally. There are some other extreme situations having to do with STD's, hormonal issues, and illness...and IF Ms. Fox was actually pregnant at all...I would say she'd be far more likely to have miscarried due to one of those reasons.
Things like stress, pepper spray, and even a blow to the abdomen are traumatic for anyone, including a pregnat woman...but they are generally not causative. Think for a moment of all the women who were newly pregnant when 9/11 hit....could you imagine greater fear, panic, stress, etc. than to be watching that and then find out you lost your spouse? Ans yet they went on to have happy healthy babies.
Ms. Fox was not even pregnant in my humble opinon...but if she was, her miscarriage was in no way caused by anything other than nature or her body.
165
As a medical professional licensed to practice for over 10 years, I have to ask...
Could we PLEASE just briefly mention some medically established facts about pregnancy and miscarriage here?
Ms. Fox claimed she was either 2months pregnant, or 3 months pregnant.
First, for about the last oh, I can't remember back that far years...pregnancy goes in weeks. Especially amongst women. She would have said 12 weeks, 10 weeks, whatever.
Second, she claims she was having a girl and was planning to name her "Miracle". Great, but a pipe dream at 3 months...errr...I mean 12 weeks. Here I have to diverge into some facts regarding the care plan for medicaid/charity care/homeless patients...
a)they are usually not seen right away for care, and even when they are will only be seen between 10 and 12 weeks for the initial visit.
b)they will not have an ultrasound until some time after that visit. They MAY have a doppler done to detect heartbeat....but unless they are high risk, the ultrasound will be done around 16-18 weeks...even as late as 18-22wks
c)unless medically necessitated, they will not have 3D ultrasounds, or high level new generation ultrasounds. They will have a standard, good old fashioned ultrasound.
OK...so. Given the above, and given the fact that you are really not able to determine a babies sex by regular ultrasound until around 17-20 weeks....well, unless Ms. Fox is a psychic, she was full of crap that "they" had told her it was a girl.
Third...pepper spray does not cause miscarriage.Being kicked in the stomach does not cause miscarriage. DOES...NOT. The fetus is extremely well protected in the amniotic fluid, and the uterus at "3months pregnant" has not even enlarged enough to come up from behind the pubic bone. So in order for a "kick to the stomach" to physically harm that fetus, it would need to be more of a kick to the groin...and might even need to break the pubic bone to reach the fetus. On another note, yes....an EXTREME beating focused on the belly area MIGHT contribute...but the onset would be IMMEDIATELY following the attack...not 5 days later.
Fact of the matter is, 1 out of every 10 pregnancies end in miscarriage during the 1st trimester
(1st 12 weeks) and no one really knows why. They are usually due to chromosomal anomalies that just dont allow the fetus to implant and'or develop normally. There are some other extreme situations having to do with STD's, hormonal issues, and illness...and IF Ms. Fox was actually pregnant at all...I would say she'd be far more likely to have miscarried due to one of those reasons.
Things like stress, pepper spray, and even a blow to the abdomen are traumatic for anyone, including a pregnat woman...but they are generally not causative. Think for a moment of all the women who were newly pregnant when 9/11 hit....could you imagine greater fear, panic, stress, etc. than to be watching that and then find out you lost your spouse? And yet they went on to have happy healthy babies.
Ms. Fox was not even pregnant in my humble opinon...but if she was, her miscarriage was in no way caused by anything other than nature or her body.
More...
Could we PLEASE just briefly mention some medically established facts about pregnancy and miscarriage here?
Ms. Fox claimed she was either 2months pregnant, or 3 months pregnant.
First, for about the last oh, I can't remember back that far years...pregnancy goes in weeks. Especially amongst women. She would have said 12 weeks, 10 weeks, whatever.
Second, she claims she was having a girl and was planning to name her "Miracle". Great, but a pipe dream at 3 months...errr...I mean 12 weeks. Here I have to diverge into some facts regarding the care plan for medicaid/charity care/homeless patients...
a)they are usually not seen right away for care, and even when they are will only be seen between 10 and 12 weeks for the initial visit.
b)they will not have an ultrasound until some time after that visit. They MAY have a doppler done to detect heartbeat....but unless they are high risk, the ultrasound will be done around 16-18 weeks...even as late as 18-22wks
c)unless medically necessitated, they will not have 3D ultrasounds, or high level new generation ultrasounds. They will have a standard, good old fashioned ultrasound.
OK...so. Given the above, and given the fact that you are really not able to determine a babies sex by regular ultrasound until around 17-20 weeks....well, unless Ms. Fox is a psychic, she was full of crap that "they" had told her it was a girl.
Third...pepper spray does not cause miscarriage.Being kicked in the stomach does not cause miscarriage. DOES...NOT. The fetus is extremely well protected in the amniotic fluid, and the uterus at "3months pregnant" has not even enlarged enough to come up from behind the pubic bone. So in order for a "kick to the stomach" to physically harm that fetus, it would need to be more of a kick to the groin...and might even need to break the pubic bone to reach the fetus. On another note, yes....an EXTREME beating focused on the belly area MIGHT contribute...but the onset would be IMMEDIATELY following the attack...not 5 days later.
Fact of the matter is, 1 out of every 10 pregnancies end in miscarriage during the 1st trimester
(1st 12 weeks) and no one really knows why. They are usually due to chromosomal anomalies that just dont allow the fetus to implant and'or develop normally. There are some other extreme situations having to do with STD's, hormonal issues, and illness...and IF Ms. Fox was actually pregnant at all...I would say she'd be far more likely to have miscarried due to one of those reasons.
Things like stress, pepper spray, and even a blow to the abdomen are traumatic for anyone, including a pregnat woman...but they are generally not causative. Think for a moment of all the women who were newly pregnant when 9/11 hit....could you imagine greater fear, panic, stress, etc. than to be watching that and then find out you lost your spouse? And yet they went on to have happy healthy babies.
Ms. Fox was not even pregnant in my humble opinon...but if she was, her miscarriage was in no way caused by anything other than nature or her body.
166
This is just another case of Ian Finkenbinder, or whatever his name is, trying to inflame the occupy community against the police rather than working with them. This girl's story has more holes than swiss cheese. Her radio interview was painful - "I was pregnant with twins, then I lost one when the police stopped me for squatting, but I kept the other twin, and now the police maced/kicked that one out of me." Really? Good holy Jesus really?
167
Your website is really cool and this is a great inspiring article. Thank you so much.
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169
Great info! I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don’t know what to say except that I have.
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Great info! I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don’t know what to say except that I have.
Discover Hnn X size
170
This was really an interesting topic and I kinda agree with what you have mentioned here!
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