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News & ArtsSunday, November 20, 2011
International Meanwhile in Tahrir Square
Posted by Christopher Frizzelle on Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 1:26 PM
Al Jazeera reports: "Thousands of protesters are regrouping in central Cairo after day of clashes with security forces that left 11 dead."
1
I wish I could tell the people in Egypt to seek what they want through non-violence. Gather in peace and suffer at the hands of the army for the cameras so the world will see your pain and know your sacrifice.
2
Easy to say when you're not the one suffering. 'Get tear gassed and shot at, but remain peaceful, because that moral victory means so much when you're dead.'
4
We are not suffering like people in the rest of the world are suffering. We stand in solidarity with our brothers and sisters in Cairo.
6
I dunno Vince, throwing rocks at the police and building burning barricades has a long and venerable --not to mention successful-- history around the world. It does tend to play to the strengths of the cops though, which is to escalate force. But considering that the cops have actively killed people in both of Egypt's occupations, defending yourself and fighting back is a valid strategy.
7
Though I'm convinced that anti-police violence is one of the fastest ways OWS can turn the 99% against the Occupations, I do have to admit that when the Egyptian temporary-government cites German police response to the anti-nuclear movements of the 1980 as justification for the present crackdown, they are absolutely begging the protesters to respond with violence.
8
Why do people like #4 insist on calling groups of people in struggle "brothers and sisters." You're not MLK Jr and stop this gender binary bullshit.
Suggested replacements: friends, comrades, folks, allies.
Suggested replacements: friends, comrades, folks, allies.
9
@8
"friends" implies a relationship other than the one @4 was trying to convey.
"comrades" is politically loaded; it implies Communist allegiance, like it or not.
"folks" is too neutral; in common parlance, it signifies people who are not politically aligned, one way or the other. And there's a bit of a problem with "the folk", if you can translate German.
"allies", apart from WWII connotations, implies that the people referenced are fighting for the same goals; as far as I'm aware, there's not even a subset of demands that OWS shares with the Egyptian protests, not least because OWS structurally rejects explicit demands.
"compatriot" would imply a shared nationality, which clearly doesn't work if we use established national boundaries, and probably doesn't work either if the "nation" of OWS is anti-hierarchical, ie Anarchist ideology; the vast crowds in Egypt were summoned by Islamic clergy, not by Anarchist radicals.
It is indeed quite difficult to find an appropriate word with which to bind the Egyptian uprising to OWS; perhaps the problem is not that we can't find the right word, but rather that there is in fact very little affinity to be found in the grievances and goals of these two very different uprisings?
"friends" implies a relationship other than the one @4 was trying to convey.
"comrades" is politically loaded; it implies Communist allegiance, like it or not.
"folks" is too neutral; in common parlance, it signifies people who are not politically aligned, one way or the other. And there's a bit of a problem with "the folk", if you can translate German.
"allies", apart from WWII connotations, implies that the people referenced are fighting for the same goals; as far as I'm aware, there's not even a subset of demands that OWS shares with the Egyptian protests, not least because OWS structurally rejects explicit demands.
"compatriot" would imply a shared nationality, which clearly doesn't work if we use established national boundaries, and probably doesn't work either if the "nation" of OWS is anti-hierarchical, ie Anarchist ideology; the vast crowds in Egypt were summoned by Islamic clergy, not by Anarchist radicals.
It is indeed quite difficult to find an appropriate word with which to bind the Egyptian uprising to OWS; perhaps the problem is not that we can't find the right word, but rather that there is in fact very little affinity to be found in the grievances and goals of these two very different uprisings?
11
Cairo - Riots, guns, bullets, bodies, revolution.
Seattle - Poop in the park
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN_qPu6Eu…
Seattle - Poop in the park
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN_qPu6Eu…
12
Any non-violent protest has the world's sympathy. Any government that responds to non-violence with violence is exposed for what they are. We now live in a world that sees what is happening real time. It is a world where the power lies with the people. To those that think violence is the answer I say watch the black and white films of the southern police beating peaceful civil rights demonstrators. The world has seen them for a generation and they still have an impact.
13
Southern police didn't, as a matter of course, SHOOT PROTESTERS. They may have lynched some of them, to be sure, but they did not as part of their jobs, fire indiscriminately into crowds. They may be pepper spraying and beating protesters now, but they're not, again as part of their job, shooting them dead.
Power lies with the powerful. Power lies with the fundamentalists and the dictators and the people with the guns. Qaddafi wasn't removed with flying flowers. And civil rights or OWS protests are not the same thing as protesting what is essentially a military coup in an Islamic country. Neither may be particularly safe, but drawing parallels between them is disingenuous.
Power lies with the powerful. Power lies with the fundamentalists and the dictators and the people with the guns. Qaddafi wasn't removed with flying flowers. And civil rights or OWS protests are not the same thing as protesting what is essentially a military coup in an Islamic country. Neither may be particularly safe, but drawing parallels between them is disingenuous.
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