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News & ArtsFriday, November 18, 2011
Books / Film / Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz "We, as a society, need to stop being angry that Twilight exists."
Posted by Anna Minard on Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 1:22 PM
I have been saying to friends lately, as Twi-mania and its corresponding Twi-annoyance, Twi-hatred, and Twi-exhaustion erupts once again in anticipation of the new Breaking Dawn movie, something along these lines: The interesting thing about the Twilight books and movies is not that they are bad, or that they were ever made. There's lots of bad stuff being made in the world all the time. The interesting thing is that they are popular, and what that says about the culture we live in—and even that is not all that fascinating. Deeply shitty things are very, very popular all the time (reality television, Republican presidential candidates). So even though I really appreciate the fact that people are analyzing a pop culture phenomenon's sexism and racism, and all the merchandise/tattoos/Forks tours seem crazy, people snottily whining about how much they hate Twilight is far more obnoxious than the thing itself.
Marah Eakin at the AV Club just wrote this way, way better version of what I think I was trying to say:
Without a doubt, some of the people at those screenings will be die-hard Twi-maniacs who have spent large portions of their paychecks on trips to Forks, Washington (where the series is set) and who remain convinced that Robert Pattinson is, in fact, Edward, the vampire he plays. Those people will be in the minority, though. Most of the audience will be made up of rational, capable adults who hold down jobs, are in relationships, and probably have at least a little money in their checking accounts. They’ll be at Breaking Dawn not because they think it’s romantic that wolf-boy Taylor Lautner will fall for a toddler, or that Kristen Stewart is a great actress. Instead, they’ll be there because it’s a silly movie, an escape, and a rather ridiculous one at that.
If you hate/love/give the slightest shit about the fact that Twilight exists, you should read the whole thing. Otherwise, by all means, carry on.
2
"We, as a society, need to stop being angry that Twilight exists."
I'm not going to bother reading it because that quote couldn't be further from the truth. We, as a society, LOVE Twilight, which is why we made it a huge bestselling series and blockbusting movie franchise. It's only a vocal minority that hates it so much.
Like shitty things always being popular, some of those things will always be lightning rods for the people who don't like those things. No sense in complaining about that.
I'm not going to bother reading it because that quote couldn't be further from the truth. We, as a society, LOVE Twilight, which is why we made it a huge bestselling series and blockbusting movie franchise. It's only a vocal minority that hates it so much.
Like shitty things always being popular, some of those things will always be lightning rods for the people who don't like those things. No sense in complaining about that.
3
Count me in the "could give a shit less" column.
That goes for Harry Potter and Percy Jackson too...
That goes for Harry Potter and Percy Jackson too...
4
"people snottily whining about how much they hate Twilight is far more obnoxious than the thing itself"
Mostly the hate is directed towards the media campaigns that remind us that these idiot fans exist.
@2: Agreed. if it was actually the laughingstock/villain of society, it wouldn't be such a "phenomenon". We have just as much a right to roll our eyes as they do to enjoy it.
These articles and their nonstop condescension towards everyone being condescending?
"Most of the audience will be made up of rational, capable adults who hold down jobs, are in relationships, and probably have at least a little money in their checking accounts"
Shut the front door. I had no fucking clue.
Mostly the hate is directed towards the media campaigns that remind us that these idiot fans exist.
@2: Agreed. if it was actually the laughingstock/villain of society, it wouldn't be such a "phenomenon". We have just as much a right to roll our eyes as they do to enjoy it.
These articles and their nonstop condescension towards everyone being condescending?
"Most of the audience will be made up of rational, capable adults who hold down jobs, are in relationships, and probably have at least a little money in their checking accounts"
Shut the front door. I had no fucking clue.
5
And really? "It’s unfair to assign expectations to it that we wouldn’t assign to comparable fare like Glee or Vampire Diaries."
Who is this "we"? I cringe at all this high-school marketed to the middle-aged glurge.
This article's attacking a huge straw person and regurgitating the same old "people just want to have fun lol you can't criticize a movie for being bad because..." and I'm disappointed that it's posted to the AV club.
Who is this "we"? I cringe at all this high-school marketed to the middle-aged glurge.
This article's attacking a huge straw person and regurgitating the same old "people just want to have fun lol you can't criticize a movie for being bad because..." and I'm disappointed that it's posted to the AV club.
6
Love it or hate it, the books turned millions of people (especially young girls) who would have never read a full length novel into lifelong readers.
Win.
Win.
7
i have no use for it, but it makes me happy for the moss-covered folks in PA & forks. they need all the tourist business they can get.
8
@6: Harry Potter did the same without any of the creepy (a)moral messages. Besides that we're bitching about the movies, not the books. It's a piss-poor defense.
10
It's not so much hate, but utter bafflement that this is a thing that's so popular. Jersey Shore, I can understand, because it is pure trash. I myself have felt the very human impulses that cause us to gawk at train wrecks in progress. People watch it and acknowledge that it's not a thing of quality. But Twilight isn't being sold as trash. People pretend it's something that's not terrible and whenever a movie comes out, it saturates the media with its awfulness. It's near impossible to avoid. I'm looking forward to not being subjected to it anymore after the last movie comes out.
11
I don't have the facts to back this up, but I'm pretty sure the people who don't give a shit outnumber the fans and the haters combined. So there's that.
12
Recap: There is nothing interesting to say about thing which is not interesting, but anyone who complains about the thing is annoying.
If you've actually been saying these things to your friends you soon won't have any friends.
If you've actually been saying these things to your friends you soon won't have any friends.
13
I saw it this morning at 11 AM. I knew exactly what to expect, got what I expected for my $8.50, and had a lovely time. Me, 2 other guys, and about 400 women. (What can I say? I love a good cry as much as the next girl)
14
Are the books any good? I have no idea, other than the testament of a couple of teenage girls that they're awesome.
Not that I'll necessarily read them. I still haven't gotten around to Harry Potter, and probably never will.
Not that I'll necessarily read them. I still haven't gotten around to Harry Potter, and probably never will.
15
@14 - The first book is marginally readable. They get worse as they go. The last one is horrifically bad. They're okay if you check them out of the library or buy them at Value Village, but I sure wouldn't pay more than about a dollar for them.
16
@12: troof.
On further contemplation, I've fallen victim to a Mudede-like troll for commenter outrage.
You win this time, ms. Minard.
On further contemplation, I've fallen victim to a Mudede-like troll for commenter outrage.
You win this time, ms. Minard.
17
@14
The books are very poorly written and thoroughly enjoyable. It takes very little innate intellectual or emotional intelligence to see that there are some interesting ideas presented concerning love, coming of age, and women's reproductive rights (it's pro-choice) to name a few. Yet look at the abundance of otherwise bright, caring people who seem to have missed it all.
You will come away from the movies with an overwhelming sense of "how could there possibly have been less in there than in the book?" I always say that the movie is not the book. It is a stand-alone creative work derived in some measure from the book. I have enjoyed the series so far.
Harry Potter is chock full of challenging philosophical ideas and is beautifully written. They should teach HP at the college level if they don't already. Definitely read this.
The books are very poorly written and thoroughly enjoyable. It takes very little innate intellectual or emotional intelligence to see that there are some interesting ideas presented concerning love, coming of age, and women's reproductive rights (it's pro-choice) to name a few. Yet look at the abundance of otherwise bright, caring people who seem to have missed it all.
You will come away from the movies with an overwhelming sense of "how could there possibly have been less in there than in the book?" I always say that the movie is not the book. It is a stand-alone creative work derived in some measure from the book. I have enjoyed the series so far.
Harry Potter is chock full of challenging philosophical ideas and is beautifully written. They should teach HP at the college level if they don't already. Definitely read this.
18
Please don't compare the Vampire Diaries to Twilight. We got sucked into TVD early on and the first 1-2 episodes were basically Twilight. We were ready to pull the plug until one of the main characters began basically indiscriminately killing everyone in the cast it felt like (Ian Somerhalder, Boone from LOST). The show at times approaches the heights of Buffy The Vampire Slayer. Bonus points: its one of the few major television shows that will almost gleefully kill off anyone and everyone in the cast. Seriously--the body count in season one was something like 50% of the speaking cast being killed off. Seasons 2 and 3 have been just as brutal.
You don't get any of this Stephanie Meyers morality crap, either. One character is whiny and teen-y. The rest are practical, semi-realistic, or basically "Drink blood, get bitches".
You don't get any of this Stephanie Meyers morality crap, either. One character is whiny and teen-y. The rest are practical, semi-realistic, or basically "Drink blood, get bitches".
20
I believe Immortal Techinque had a line (I'm gonna get it slightly wrong) "when you sell a million records/just means a million people are dumb as fuck".
23
Rabid complainers of Twilight, Justin Beeber, Jersey Shore, Valentines Day, Christmas Creep, etc are way more annoying than the actual things themselves.
24
@23: I'd agree, but it's easier to tune those complainers out than it is to tune out the phenomena they're responding to. I already don't have a radio or network television or really even go to the movies these days, and yet the marketing STILL hits in waves.
25
Breaking Dawn???
I thought the original title was Breaking Gas or Breaking Wind, but they were forced to change it at the last second.
Did Bella finally become a vampire??? Did her fellow students finally realize those ancient adults posing as students weren't really gays, but actually unhealthy appearing vamps?
What does Sandusky have to do with this movie, anyway?
What's the connection? Vampires? Pervs? Funny-looking young adults like those college student rioters in favor of child-rape at the Penn State University. Or did they change that college's name to Pedophile State?
And why did it require thousands of complaints and e-mails to UW's former sleazoid, Mark Emmert (now head of the NCAA) before he finally announced an investigation into it?
And why did UW replace Emmert with the author of the Supreme Court decision (when he clerked for Rehnquist on SCOTUS) to dump the mentally ill out of the mental institutions back in 1978?
See how the mention of this Twilight movie, Breaking Wind leads to creepier and creepier stuff?
I thought the original title was Breaking Gas or Breaking Wind, but they were forced to change it at the last second.
Did Bella finally become a vampire??? Did her fellow students finally realize those ancient adults posing as students weren't really gays, but actually unhealthy appearing vamps?
What does Sandusky have to do with this movie, anyway?
What's the connection? Vampires? Pervs? Funny-looking young adults like those college student rioters in favor of child-rape at the Penn State University. Or did they change that college's name to Pedophile State?
And why did it require thousands of complaints and e-mails to UW's former sleazoid, Mark Emmert (now head of the NCAA) before he finally announced an investigation into it?
And why did UW replace Emmert with the author of the Supreme Court decision (when he clerked for Rehnquist on SCOTUS) to dump the mentally ill out of the mental institutions back in 1978?
See how the mention of this Twilight movie, Breaking Wind leads to creepier and creepier stuff?
26
Deeply shitty things are very, very popular all the time (reality television, Republican presidential candidates).
What's "deeply shitty" is, basically, what you don't like. If it's popular and you like it (hip-hop, for just one example) then it's not "deeply shitty" at all.
What's "deeply shitty" is, basically, what you don't like. If it's popular and you like it (hip-hop, for just one example) then it's not "deeply shitty" at all.
27
Typical Seattle passive aggressive bullshit. The problem isn't the problem. Noticing that the movie has racist problems is the REAL problem. Makes you nervous, eh Anna?
28
27-- I read fucktard very well. And you've got me stumped.
Take your well earned troll-token, motherfucker.
Take your well earned troll-token, motherfucker.
30
Guy: I'd love to suck your toes.
Chick: Gross! That's disgusting. No way.
Guy: OK then...how about if I stick your toes with a needle and suck blood out of them?
Chick: Oh yes!!! That would be so hot.
Chick: Gross! That's disgusting. No way.
Guy: OK then...how about if I stick your toes with a needle and suck blood out of them?
Chick: Oh yes!!! That would be so hot.
32
The saving grace here is that one more movie and this whole thing can be put behind us.
I read the books, I've seen the first 3 films. My 14year old is at this one right now with her friends. My objection to the books and the movies is that the girl is totally in the control of the boy--not for any perverse vampirish type reasons, but because the man is in charge and will make all of the decisions.
And the whole Team Edward / Team Jacob thing. How about Team Bella Gets a Vibrator and Thinks for Herself? Can I have that on a Tshirt, please?
I read the books, I've seen the first 3 films. My 14year old is at this one right now with her friends. My objection to the books and the movies is that the girl is totally in the control of the boy--not for any perverse vampirish type reasons, but because the man is in charge and will make all of the decisions.
And the whole Team Edward / Team Jacob thing. How about Team Bella Gets a Vibrator and Thinks for Herself? Can I have that on a Tshirt, please?
33
Thank you for that last sentence, @32.
"Deeply shitty" isn't just an aesthetic judgement here, people. Any romance series that basically culminates in an abusive relationship (oh that's right, they looooove each other, so it's ok!) is not exactly just normal misogynist garbage. It's blatant, shitty garbage teaching young women (who already have enough bullshit to deal with) that they're just empty vessels for heteronormativity and re enforcing this shit in adults who should probably know better, but instead have decided to steep themselves in "harmless" garbage culture. Fuck you twilight.
"Deeply shitty" isn't just an aesthetic judgement here, people. Any romance series that basically culminates in an abusive relationship (oh that's right, they looooove each other, so it's ok!) is not exactly just normal misogynist garbage. It's blatant, shitty garbage teaching young women (who already have enough bullshit to deal with) that they're just empty vessels for heteronormativity and re enforcing this shit in adults who should probably know better, but instead have decided to steep themselves in "harmless" garbage culture. Fuck you twilight.
34
@32 catballou
The Twilight series is concerned with love, obligation to family and community, having the maturity to decide what's best for yourself, and a little bit of cold, hard politics. Try taking another look at it from the perspective of someone who ranks sex way down on their list of priorities. As a person who occasionally experiences hyper-sexuality I find the emphasis on deep love, physical and spiritual beauty, and the sometimes intensely difficult business of self-control to be very positive.
I don't think Bella is weak for being pro-choice and deciding to have the baby in the face of life-threatening danger from the pregnancy as well as in the face of extreme pressure from family and society to abort. That shows enormous courage and power.
Over the arch of the story Edward, despite being a century old, finally learns to grow up emotionally. He learns how to be an equal partner in his primary relationship. It's the exact opposite development stated in @33.
In our culture of sex 24/7 it's clear that a story where sex is pushed to the side in favor of the balance of the real life concerns of adults is challenging to a great many people. Here we have two characters who desire each other but decide to wait. It's not that they are asexual or have sexual dysfunctions, it's just that they are thoughtful about weighing indulgence versus responsibility. Again, a challenging idea for many people.
The Twilight series is concerned with love, obligation to family and community, having the maturity to decide what's best for yourself, and a little bit of cold, hard politics. Try taking another look at it from the perspective of someone who ranks sex way down on their list of priorities. As a person who occasionally experiences hyper-sexuality I find the emphasis on deep love, physical and spiritual beauty, and the sometimes intensely difficult business of self-control to be very positive.
I don't think Bella is weak for being pro-choice and deciding to have the baby in the face of life-threatening danger from the pregnancy as well as in the face of extreme pressure from family and society to abort. That shows enormous courage and power.
Over the arch of the story Edward, despite being a century old, finally learns to grow up emotionally. He learns how to be an equal partner in his primary relationship. It's the exact opposite development stated in @33.
In our culture of sex 24/7 it's clear that a story where sex is pushed to the side in favor of the balance of the real life concerns of adults is challenging to a great many people. Here we have two characters who desire each other but decide to wait. It's not that they are asexual or have sexual dysfunctions, it's just that they are thoughtful about weighing indulgence versus responsibility. Again, a challenging idea for many people.
35
"Try taking another look at it from the perspective of someone who ranks sex way down on their list of prioritie"
and of an adult who stalks/molests/lifebonds with children
and of an adult who stalks/molests/lifebonds with children
36
@17 Trying my best not to be offensive, I sincerely hope HP never enters our colleges. That is not serious literature and it is disturbing to hear people say that it is. Only the greatest literature should be read in our colleges, not money fiction, which entertains, but has almost no value to society.
37
@36
I'm not offended, just mystified by "...has almost no value to society." I don't even know where to begin explaining the wealth to be found in HP if you all you can see in it is a very small amount. At least it's fascinating to discover someone with such a different viewpoint from my own.
I'm not offended, just mystified by "...has almost no value to society." I don't even know where to begin explaining the wealth to be found in HP if you all you can see in it is a very small amount. At least it's fascinating to discover someone with such a different viewpoint from my own.
38
@37: " I don't even know where to begin explaining the wealth to be found in HP"
Because you're intellectually incurious.
I'm ok with HP, but you seem overly interested in popular culture and seem to poo-pooh the opinions of anyone who prefers "higher" culture. It's fine to enjoy HP, and even Twilight, but I'll never understand why people get so uninterested in the vast wealth of books out there and defend mainstream culture to their detriment.
Because you're intellectually incurious.
I'm ok with HP, but you seem overly interested in popular culture and seem to poo-pooh the opinions of anyone who prefers "higher" culture. It's fine to enjoy HP, and even Twilight, but I'll never understand why people get so uninterested in the vast wealth of books out there and defend mainstream culture to their detriment.
39
I agree with whomever said we need to spend less time focusing on books we hate and more time focusing on books we love. I doubt most (not all) of the Twilight haters filling pages and blogs and magazine articles and comments on websites with millions of words about how the Twilight saga sucks have written even one word of praise about a book they love.
40
It's not hate, it's just passing contempt. Isn't that what all shitty art and entertainment deserves, especially when the art or entertainment itself shows such contempt for its audience?
41
Yup. I read the books. I enjoyed the books. I don't think they're fine literature, but they're pretty fun. (I read fine literature and nonfiction too.) And when they made them into movies, they fixed the pacing, toned down the creepy and added more action. That's pretty darn good.
42
What everyone seems to be forgetting is that, a generation ago, V.C. Andrews occupied the same post Stephanie Meyer currently occupies as queen of YA trash. Only, her books were unremittingly gloomy teenage incest fantasies that not only had zero redeeming as literature, but also lacked anything cool like vampires or werewolves. Twilight is actually an improvement.
44
@41: "And when they made them into movies, they fixed the pacing"
Whaaa, the movies are slow and boring as fuck. Perhaps they're *more* exciting than the books, but that's relative. I mean, I dislike Twilght for its message(s), but if the movies had anything of the pacing of the HP movies, I'd be able to get through them, with or without Rifftrax to keep me entertained in between the lip biting, toe shuffling, and glossy-eyed staring.
Whaaa, the movies are slow and boring as fuck. Perhaps they're *more* exciting than the books, but that's relative. I mean, I dislike Twilght for its message(s), but if the movies had anything of the pacing of the HP movies, I'd be able to get through them, with or without Rifftrax to keep me entertained in between the lip biting, toe shuffling, and glossy-eyed staring.
45
@12: Hardly. It simply winnows the chaff from the wheat. I take pleasure in having friends who aren't vapid, barely-literate cretins who think pedophilia is great and a girl's only goal in life is to find a man to marry. Even if he's a creepy pedo stalker.
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