Slog
News & ArtsThursday, November 17, 2011
Politics Yet Another Mitt Romney Flip-Flop, This One Involving the Gays
Posted by Eli Sanders on Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 6:00 AM
Mitt Romney in 2002: “All citizens deserve equal rights, regardless of sexual preference.”
Mitt Romney in 1993: "Speaking... to a Mormon Church gathering, Mitt Romney, then on the verge of launching a bid for a US Senate seat, expressed dismay at reports of homosexual behavior in the group and denounced homosexuality as 'perverse,' according to several people present at the meeting."
1
"Flip flop" or evolution in maturity? I'm more interested on his thoughts concerning equality in 2011, anyway.
3
Can it really be called a flip-flop when the quotes are 9 years apart? I'm no Mitt defender but doesn't this just show evolution in his thinking? Isn't this what we want? To change peoples minds on the subject?
Now, if he comes out again in a speech next week going back to his 1993 thinking, then we can make all the negative, flip-flop posts we want.
Now, if he comes out again in a speech next week going back to his 1993 thinking, then we can make all the negative, flip-flop posts we want.
5
At least he flipped the right way. I suspect a lot of people's ideas about "the gays" have matured since 1993.
6
godam Eli are you drunk?
You got up at 6am to post a report from 1993 and quotation from 2002?
RipVanWinkle, much?
You got up at 6am to post a report from 1993 and quotation from 2002?
RipVanWinkle, much?
8
and even if it were not really really old it is not a flip flop.
one can recognize that homosexual behavior is perverse and be dismayed at its conduct and still believe that people engaged in the perverse behavior 'deserve equal rights'.
one can recognize that homosexual behavior is perverse and be dismayed at its conduct and still believe that people engaged in the perverse behavior 'deserve equal rights'.
9
You can think homosexuality is perverse but still think that all people deserve equal rights. I wish more people with religious objections to homosexuality could be so objective.
10
and finally, enlighten folks will remind you girls that in this great nation all citizens ENJOY equal rights, regardless of sexual preference.
No one; hetero, homo- no one; can marry someone of the same sex.
Any everyone; homo, hetero- EVERYONE; can marry someone of the opposite sex.
Isn't this a great country!!!?
No one; hetero, homo- no one; can marry someone of the same sex.
Any everyone; homo, hetero- EVERYONE; can marry someone of the opposite sex.
Isn't this a great country!!!?
12
@8,9: HIVEMIND.
@10: What if people were only allowed to marry same-sex partners? There would be total marriage equality, right? Gay, straight, doesn't matter; you can only marry a same-sex partner. Would you be cool with that, you miserable failtroll?
@10: What if people were only allowed to marry same-sex partners? There would be total marriage equality, right? Gay, straight, doesn't matter; you can only marry a same-sex partner. Would you be cool with that, you miserable failtroll?
13
Mitt tailors his answers to the audience. In Utah, he still says gays are perverse. SL Tribune actually pointed out some of his pandering, surprisingly enough. So less of a flip-flopper and more of a silly putty guy. Either way, still not fit to be Prez.
14
12
If all people were only allowed to marry same-sex partners then everyone would be being treated equally under the law.
If all people were only allowed to marry same-sex partners then everyone would be being treated equally under the law.
15
I don't think you can call this a flip flop. In the older quote he's saying he's dismayed that people in this Mormon group are engaging in gay sex. He could be against Mormon's having gay sex while still believing that gays should have the same legal rights as straights. Religious people absolutely have the right to think gay sex is immoral. Where their rights end is at their ability to restrict gays from having legal rights that straights have.
If you're looking for a Mitt Flop (this is so standard for him it deserves its own term. Flip Flop is too general. This is a Mitt Flop.) you should be comparing his 2002 statement that gays deserve the same rights as straights with his 2011 campaign statement that he opposes gay marriage. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-2…
Now THAT is a Mitt Flop.
If you're looking for a Mitt Flop (this is so standard for him it deserves its own term. Flip Flop is too general. This is a Mitt Flop.) you should be comparing his 2002 statement that gays deserve the same rights as straights with his 2011 campaign statement that he opposes gay marriage. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-2…
Now THAT is a Mitt Flop.
17
Flipp Flopney wants to be president of Mormon Americans. Rich Mormon Americans. Like him. What a coincidence.
19
What's perverse is the way that Mormons in Utah conspire to allow their most conservative fringe fellow travelers to rape little girls with impunity. And that's a good example of the typical Mormon two-faced habit of public discourse. On the one hand you disown the fundamentalists and denounce polygamy. On the other hand you make sure that in the courts a man who rapes a 13 year old girl gets off with a slap on the wrist, if that.
20
I don't really see these as mutually exclusive ideas. I know it's uncommon, but you could think that per religious freedom, gays should have equal rights but still, personally, feel that it's perverse. In the 1993 quote, it looks like he's speaking directly to Mormons about homosexual behavior within their own "group."
26
Yeah my opinion has gone the right way since 1993 too. My parents raised me in the south, but I got out of that backwater.
Sorry man, but 1993 is now 18 years ago. 18 years. People change in 18 years.
Sorry man, but 1993 is now 18 years ago. 18 years. People change in 18 years.
27
@Everyone: I probably should have used a quote of Romney's from 1994 along with that quote from 2002. You'll find it at the links already provided:
"During Romney’s 1994 senatorial run, for example, he pledged to 'make equality for gays and lesbians a mainstream concern.'"
"During Romney’s 1994 senatorial run, for example, he pledged to 'make equality for gays and lesbians a mainstream concern.'"
29
@14: All right then, you agree with me. Next question:
What if all people, gay or straight, could marry either a same-sex partner or an opposite-sex partner? Would everyone be equal under the law that way?
What if all people, gay or straight, could marry either a same-sex partner or an opposite-sex partner? Would everyone be equal under the law that way?
30
All right then, you agree with us.
And if all people are only allowed to marry opposite-sex partners then everyone is being treated equally under the law.
And if all people are only allowed to marry opposite-sex partners then everyone is being treated equally under the law.
31
The fact that Romney is sensitive to the rights of all people as opposed to just rights for his kind of people says volumes about his ability to work with diversities to find those areas that we all as Americans can agree on. America does not need intractable fanaticism over willingness to consider all views and even the ability to evolve one's understanding in light of new information or differing situational complexities when it comes to uniting our diverse cultural differences. Fanaticism either from the left or from the right is not what the majority of Americans want or what we need to come together as Americans. People rail at Obama for promoting "class warfare" but don't seem to see that warfare among Americans around any issue is just as destructive. Example: No one is for murdering human life, but many of us realize that "personhood for every zygote" will create consequences that are so bizarre and destructive. Do we really want the FBI to invade our homes to conduct a homicide investigation with every miscarriage? Do we want our Criminal Justice System overwhelmed even far more than our "War on Drugs" has given us. Now we want a "War against Women"!
32
The fact that Romney is sensitive to the rights of all people as opposed to just rights for his kind of people says volumes about his ability to work with diversities to find those areas that we all as Americans can agree on. America does not need intractable fanaticism over willingness to consider all views and even the ability to evolve one's understanding in light of new information or differing situational complexities when it comes to uniting our diverse cultural differences. Fanaticism either from the left or from the right is not what the majority of Americans want or what we need to come together as Americans. People rail at Obama for promoting "class warfare" but don't seem to see that warfare among Americans around any issue is just as destructive. Example: No one is for murdering human life, but many of us realize that "personhood for every zygote" will create consequences that are so bizarre and destructive. Do we really want the FBI to invade our homes to conduct a homicide investigation with every miscarriage? Do we want our Criminal Justice System overwhelmed even far more than our "War on Drugs" has given us. Now we want a "War against Women"!
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