Slog
News & ArtsWednesday, November 9, 2011
At Large Because You Never Know When One of Those Dangerous Things Is Going to Attack
Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 2:24 PM
They really ought to be on leashes at all times.
4
If you demand leashes for them then people will just get those super long ones they never retract until you've had to come to a complete stop after calling out, "On your left," fifteen times. I say put 'em back in their cars where God and nature intended 'em to be.
5
If I had a leash, I'd string it across the path, effectively clotheslining the cyclists who are unaware of their surroundings.
6
@TVDinner: get an air horn for your bike. Works, even sometimes for peds wearing earphones. Also works for cars.
7
Actually I appreciate this. I don't hear cyclists yelling behind me in whatever attempts they're making to let me know they 're about to run me over...
8
Just yesterday I was nearly run over by several cyclists who were behind me and about to pass way too close for comfort. They should have had, and used, those fun little bells that are also on public rent-a-bikes in Europe.
11
I'm so sick of this. We need to bolt license plates onto every pedestrian and charge them a registration fee already. I'm tired of these freeloaders getting a free ride by walking all over the roads that were built for cars.
12
When you are hit by a car in the left lane after suddenly changing lanes in your automobile without looking or signaling in any way, do you blame the other car for not honking to let you know it was there? Just, uh, curious.
13
So... it's cool for cars to hit people? I've had 2 narrow misses with pedestrians, both jaywalking, badly judging my speed, and freezing up in the middle of a fucking lane of traffic when they realized they had badly judged my speed. As far as I know, cyclists are ALWAYS wary of pedestrians, to the best of their abilities to be so, as the cyclist is likely to get about as fucked-up by a collision as the pedestrian. No?
14
Sometimes when a bicyclist gets run over by a car I feel kind of bad for them. So I go to the Burke-Gilman and walk a little ways. Usually about a hundred feet is all it takes. And then I don't feel bad any more.
Try it some time.
Try it some time.
15
@8 Those bells are popular here. I'm pretty damn even tempered, but I find myself actually saying out loud "you did NOT just ding at me!" I don't know why they make me so mad; used properly, they're actually a rather polite expression.
16
@9: holy crap, look at their car. I like to imagine they haul that trailer around with it.
http://g.co/maps/vb8vy
http://g.co/maps/vb8vy
17
Non-asshole cyclists don't need to be reminded to watch out for pedestrians, and asshole cyclists aren't going to care even if you remind them. I don't think it's possible to win.
18
It's not that pedestrians attack so much as they try to text and walk at the same time, meandering all over the place and not paying any attention. If you keep right and look around before suddenly changing lanes on a multi-use trail, your safe as houses. The Burke is a multi-use trail, you have to deal with multiple user types.
Even the rollerbladers.
Even the rollerbladers.
19
When I am on foot, nothing pleases me more than yelling "SHARE THE ROAD" at those relatively rare asshole cyclists.
20
The ones that kill me are the ones that don't get out of the way when I ring my handy bike bell. But then bikers that don't ring their bells when I am walking and they pass me piss me off too! Bells...it's all about the f-n bells!
21
You have to go slow on a shared path as a cyclist, since you can never predict what a pedestrian is about to do. The biggest mistake is assuming they'll continue on their current trajectory.
"Oh, look - blackberries!" [immediately crosses path]
The worst are the tourists. Something about being on vacation makes a pedestrian move with the predictability of a pinball and the surroundings-awareness of a four-year-old.
So I go pretty damn slow when passing any ped.
"Oh, look - blackberries!" [immediately crosses path]
The worst are the tourists. Something about being on vacation makes a pedestrian move with the predictability of a pinball and the surroundings-awareness of a four-year-old.
So I go pretty damn slow when passing any ped.
22
Are bells not good? On the bike/ped paths around here (Potomac river bike path, etc) I usually use a bell. Just one little ding from a few seconds back and the ped knows to keep to the right lane (yes, the paths have lanes). When my rent-a-bike doesn't have a bell, I yell "On your left!" like the signs tell me to do. Same calm response from the peds to either warning, but everybody is used to this system here.
Clumsy signage is funny though.
Clumsy signage is funny though.
25
I usually say "bike behind you", much more efective than "on our left" because they invariably go to the left. If I say "bike behind you" and brake, they will run in mindless circles then get out of my way and I can safely pass them.
I mostly stay off trails. Roads are safer.
I mostly stay off trails. Roads are safer.
28
Speaking on behalf of all pedestrians, I'd just like to say everyone on wheels is an asshole. Bicyclists, drivers, covered-wagon-ists. We hate you all. Stop trying to run us over in the crosswalk or on the sidewalk. It's a dick move. You make it very hard not to attack, although when you are running us over it's really self defense.
29
At least around here by law cyclists are required to yield to pedestrians. SO QUIT YELLING, HONKING, BELLING expecting us to JUMP!
I won't hear you. And lots of *hearing* people won't hear you either (listening to something else, talking to someone, background noise, whatever). AND I WILL SUE YOUR ASS OFF IF YOU RUN ME OVER.
So, yeah. *snarl* Watch out for peds.
I won't hear you. And lots of *hearing* people won't hear you either (listening to something else, talking to someone, background noise, whatever). AND I WILL SUE YOUR ASS OFF IF YOU RUN ME OVER.
So, yeah. *snarl* Watch out for peds.
30
BEG, you're halfway between right and wrong. If you are the Stand-on in a right-of-way situation, that means you get to keep your current course/movement. The Give-way has to manoeuvre around you. Right?
The crucial second half of a right-of-way situation is the Stand-on MUST keep the same course/trajectory, so the Give-Way can get around you without causing an accident. If you're Stand-on, and the Give-Way lets you know that it's coming, that's your warning that somebody is about to go around you and you should keep your present course. Same thing if a cyclist calls out "on your left, three back," so you know that you do what you're doing until four bike pass you, and then you can wander anywhere around the path you want.
So, yeah. Jackholes will be jackholes, but don't get snarly at those of us who are trying to let you know that something is behind you, so you are not surprised and do something we can't predict.
The crucial second half of a right-of-way situation is the Stand-on MUST keep the same course/trajectory, so the Give-Way can get around you without causing an accident. If you're Stand-on, and the Give-Way lets you know that it's coming, that's your warning that somebody is about to go around you and you should keep your present course. Same thing if a cyclist calls out "on your left, three back," so you know that you do what you're doing until four bike pass you, and then you can wander anywhere around the path you want.
So, yeah. Jackholes will be jackholes, but don't get snarly at those of us who are trying to let you know that something is behind you, so you are not surprised and do something we can't predict.
31
Slinky @ 30, you are halfway between right and wrong. Your points as to right-of-way are correct, but won't do a damned bit of good for BEG and others who _cannot hear you_.
Cyclists have no business travelling at high speed on mixed use trails. Pedestrians have no business on designated bike trails.
Cyclists have no business travelling at high speed on mixed use trails. Pedestrians have no business on designated bike trails.
32
There is an option beyond audible warnings that cyclists are absolutely required to use: brakes. Yes, momentum is hard-won on a bicycle, but slowing down to a safe passing speed, and coming to a complete stop when necessary, are not optional.
Dinging your bell or yelling at the top of your lungs won't clear up a stroller phalanx or a clot of stoned teens, and it is not their fault. You must brake. You do not have the right of way. Come to a complete stop and wait until your route is clear. Share the road!
Dinging your bell or yelling at the top of your lungs won't clear up a stroller phalanx or a clot of stoned teens, and it is not their fault. You must brake. You do not have the right of way. Come to a complete stop and wait until your route is clear. Share the road!
33
slinky, do you know what the word "deaf" means?
I am physically incapable of hearing anything behind me. I WILL NOT HEAR YOU YELL. It won't matter how much I might actually WANT to be able to hear you screaming behind me, or how much I might actually WANT to get out of your fucking way. I won't hear you. Full stop. Now, if you think that then gives you the RIGHT to run me over, then I am really at a loss as to what else to say. I mean, really? Really, really? Once you've yelled at a pedestrian, then you've completely discharged all reasonable activity and you can proceed to run them over? What IS your argument?
Stand on and give way? I have never seen this on any sidewalk I have ever walked on. Ever. This even includes so called bike paths and pedestrian paths at various universities. All of them separate bikes on one side, pedestrians on the other. And at the cross walks, gosh, people can treat them just like they do streets with cars and check there before crossing. Lots of times I'd stay on the pedestrian side and still get nearly mowed down by some idiot on a bike. (To be fair, pedestrians would wander on the bike side as well -- but I don't do that -- so someone screaming at me to move isn't in the right.)
I am physically incapable of hearing anything behind me. I WILL NOT HEAR YOU YELL. It won't matter how much I might actually WANT to be able to hear you screaming behind me, or how much I might actually WANT to get out of your fucking way. I won't hear you. Full stop. Now, if you think that then gives you the RIGHT to run me over, then I am really at a loss as to what else to say. I mean, really? Really, really? Once you've yelled at a pedestrian, then you've completely discharged all reasonable activity and you can proceed to run them over? What IS your argument?
Stand on and give way? I have never seen this on any sidewalk I have ever walked on. Ever. This even includes so called bike paths and pedestrian paths at various universities. All of them separate bikes on one side, pedestrians on the other. And at the cross walks, gosh, people can treat them just like they do streets with cars and check there before crossing. Lots of times I'd stay on the pedestrian side and still get nearly mowed down by some idiot on a bike. (To be fair, pedestrians would wander on the bike side as well -- but I don't do that -- so someone screaming at me to move isn't in the right.)
34
@33, As much as nobody has the right to run anyone else over, ever, you do have to realize that given your circumstances you have a slightly higher responsibility to avoid being run over. Cyclists aren't generally expecting you to jump off the trail and dive under the nearest shrub, but at the same time they're all hoping that you don't suddenly change course without looking over your shoulder and step right in front of them when it's too late to hit the brakes.
As an occasional cyclist, regular pedestrian, and (heaven forfend!) a driver of many vehicles, I know full well that you have to be aware of what everyone else is likely to do. If that meant assuming that everyone is deaf, that everyone will suddenly block my path, then well...I don't think I could travel anywhere at all. We all have to make reasonable assumptions that most people will behave normally most of the time. Just as there is a real possibility that a tree may fall across the road, if I preemptively stopped my car for every tree just in case, there is no way I could even pull my car out of the garage.
As an occasional cyclist, regular pedestrian, and (heaven forfend!) a driver of many vehicles, I know full well that you have to be aware of what everyone else is likely to do. If that meant assuming that everyone is deaf, that everyone will suddenly block my path, then well...I don't think I could travel anywhere at all. We all have to make reasonable assumptions that most people will behave normally most of the time. Just as there is a real possibility that a tree may fall across the road, if I preemptively stopped my car for every tree just in case, there is no way I could even pull my car out of the garage.
35
@33
...slightly higher responsibility to avoid being run over...
Er, slightly higher than what, exactly? I thought the pedestrian's legal responsibility to avoid being hit by cyclists on a sidewalk or shared-use path was zero. And I didn't think there was any exception for pedestrians doing something particularly dumb, annoying, or unpredictable.
Where is this law everyone seems to know about that says cyclists aren't at fault so long as they're travelling at a speed that renders them unable to avoid pedestrians who might turn, trip, stop, etc?
...slightly higher responsibility to avoid being run over...
Er, slightly higher than what, exactly? I thought the pedestrian's legal responsibility to avoid being hit by cyclists on a sidewalk or shared-use path was zero. And I didn't think there was any exception for pedestrians doing something particularly dumb, annoying, or unpredictable.
Where is this law everyone seems to know about that says cyclists aren't at fault so long as they're travelling at a speed that renders them unable to avoid pedestrians who might turn, trip, stop, etc?
36
@35 The overtaker does not have right-of-way. HOWEVER, that does not give the overtaken the privilege to maneuver unpredictably while being overtaken. A sound signal is traditionally given in some situations by the overtaker to indicate that this is expected in a some situations. In other situations where this is not practical, e.g. VFR aircraft in uncontrolled airspace, it is expected that before making an abrupt change of course, EVERYONE is expected to VISUALLY determine that there is clear airspace in the direction that you intend to turn. So, it is reasonable for a pedestrian, particularly if they are a deaf person who does not wear a jacket reading "DEAF PERSON" in 3 inch block letters at all times, to assume some responsibility to glance over their shoulder before veering off their course on a shared path.
37
@36
You're speaking as if cyclists and pedestrians have the same rights and responsibilities as "overtakers" and "overtaken." They do not.
Pedestrians and cyclists are not functionally equivalent aircraft; a cyclist is potentially much more dangerous than a pedestrian.
Furthermore, it is not at all reasonable to expect a person on foot to keep moving in a single direction. It is is simply impossible assume that any given pedestrian is in fact engaged in the act of transportation, of trying to get from one place to another.
Please stop thinking about people who happen to be standing up as if they were vehicles.
You're speaking as if cyclists and pedestrians have the same rights and responsibilities as "overtakers" and "overtaken." They do not.
Pedestrians and cyclists are not functionally equivalent aircraft; a cyclist is potentially much more dangerous than a pedestrian.
Furthermore, it is not at all reasonable to expect a person on foot to keep moving in a single direction. It is is simply impossible assume that any given pedestrian is in fact engaged in the act of transportation, of trying to get from one place to another.
Please stop thinking about people who happen to be standing up as if they were vehicles.
38
@BEG. Oh dear. I'm sorry I did not include deaf people in my description of what is a successful use of a long ped/bike corridor here. OF COURSE if someone doesn't respond to a sound warning I assume they are deaf*, hard-of-hearing, or somewhat-more-likely, listening to earbuds/headphones. Then, I slow way down and pass at basically a walking speed. But, it's the clumps of erratic tourists and kids that need to be pinged, not usually the deaf commuter walking or riding in a straight line on the right. Anyway, I was just describing how if people act predictably and follow the rules (and the instructions) we can all get along and everyone is served. Again, though, really sorry.
*we do have a somewhat higher proportion of deaf people here. They are a very prominent and important minority in this area. Many graduates of Gallaudet University end up staying in the area after graduation.
*we do have a somewhat higher proportion of deaf people here. They are a very prominent and important minority in this area. Many graduates of Gallaudet University end up staying in the area after graduation.
39
Yeah, 37 and several of the above, the onus is always on the more dangerous vehicle: be it bike or car (or bus or train).
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