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News & ArtsSaturday, November 5, 2011
Occupy Another Strong Day for Occupy Seattle
Posted by Dominic Holden on Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 4:52 PM
Today is Bank Transfer Day, as Goldy mentioned earlier, featuring withdrawls from financial giants, new accounts at credit unions, and protesters blocking downtown traffic. The fun kicked off in Seattle this morning with city council member Mike O'Brien joining Verity Credit Union in Wallingford. He deployed the rallying cry that big banks are "making life difficult for customers while reaping record profits."
By early afternoon, a couple hundred protesters had gathered outside the Bank of America branch in Weslake Park while folks walked in and closed their accounts. While some of the protests in the past couple weeks have been mired in self-reflection and internal politics, today's demonstrations attracted lots of TV cameras catching the totally-on-point, completely-comprehensible message. (Mainstream media has lots of reports today on Bank Transfer Day and teach-ins here, here, here, here, here, and here.) This photo doesn't quite show it, but the crowd was roughly half folks with silver hair:
- Bank Transfer Day: There are 650,000 Americans transferring their bank accounts to local banks or credit unions, according to Seattle City Council member Mike O'Brien.
Then the crowd marched to credit unions to deposit their money! (Or so I was told. I actually went at had a 1 Percenter salmon BLT, which was delicious.) When I caught up with the marchers, they were occupying 5th Avenue and Pine Street:
- Cops and Occupiers: Blocking crosstown traffic.
Sure, you could argue that blocking traffic just infuriates would-be supporters—but it got folks' attention, and the police (who were cool as cucumbers) and protesters figured out a way to let buses through without leaving the intersection. After about 20-30 minutes, they moved back into Westlake Park to harangue bank CEOs some more.
Finally, Monday will bring a pro-Occupy Wall Street resolution before the Seattle City Council that, among other things, calls on the city to "ensure that public funds are invested in responsible financial institutions that support our community" and rethink campaign financing for city elections.
All together—today's actions along with calculated civil disobedience earlier in the week directed at JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon—Occupy Seattle is kicking ass. It's doing exactly what successful demonstrations need to be doing: coming up with new ways to get attention, making hit after hit with the mainstream media, and setting it all to a backdrop that reinforces their message. If Occupy Wall Street can keep up a drumbeat of orchestrated events like these, I can only speculate that public support will keep growing and movement can sustain itself indefinitely.
1
Awesome! Another day of these idiots making the lives of everyday people more difficult by blocking traffic. Make people late for work, that will show those fat cat bankers who is in charge.
Occupy seattle has been overrun by radical socialists and anarchists.
It's time to beat them back to the lunatic fringe where they belong.
You may now sputter and wheeze with self righteous fury.
Occupy seattle has been overrun by radical socialists and anarchists.
It's time to beat them back to the lunatic fringe where they belong.
You may now sputter and wheeze with self righteous fury.
3
Banks don't want small depositors anymore - of which most of these people are. It costs money in the form of retail locations and paying tellers. The bank makes no money on someone with a $500 balance.
4
I walked by earlier and there was an aging hippy stereotype on stage with his guitar and song of protest. Economic security of working folks is our biggest problem right now and you could get millions on board if you exiled the typical fruit basket of deluded leftists trying to usurp all of this. Occupy Chicago actually welcomed a speaker from CPUSA. That says it all right there.
5
Interest rates, banks vs. credit unions:
http://www.bankrate.com/brm/static/compa…
Credit Unions:
Slightly better on mortgages, but by hundreds of a percent
More than 2x interest on CDs (!)
Banks:
Better on Home Equity lines of credit
7
This puzzling. Using Google's interest rate reports for checking accounts in my neighborhood (98030) BECU is five times better than the next place financial institution!
Google says it offers a 6.17% percent APY with an initial deposit of $500, and no monthly fees.
That seems impossibly high!!
https://www.google.com/advisor/uscheckin…
8
Ahhh...ok!
It offers this super high interest rate ONLY on the first $500.
Money after that gets a paltry 0.20 percent.
Overall if people want high interest for moderate amounts of checking and savings balances, they would do best with Internet banks it seems...
Bank of Internet USA is the top and it offers a shocking 1.25% interest with a $1 minimum!
When entered $1000 deposit, then suddenly BECU disappeared down the list.
https://www.google.com/advisor/uscheckin…
9
Well...hold on.
If you get 6.17 percent on the first $500, that's like getting 1% on the first $3000 at these other banks.
So, I guess for anything below $3000 BECU is the clear winner, assuming these reported interest rates and other numbers are correct...
If you get 6.17 percent on the first $500, that's like getting 1% on the first $3000 at these other banks.
So, I guess for anything below $3000 BECU is the clear winner, assuming these reported interest rates and other numbers are correct...
10
@6:
Oh, I seriously doubt @1 lives anywhere within the Seattle City Limits. That kind of self-absorbed whinging is usually indicative of some low-level cube-drone from Renton or Des Moines.
Oh, I seriously doubt @1 lives anywhere within the Seattle City Limits. That kind of self-absorbed whinging is usually indicative of some low-level cube-drone from Renton or Des Moines.
12
I was at today's anti-bank demonstation. The big banks have become our nation's biggest organized (and legalized) crime threat. And they are on street corners everywhere!
They continue to rip off the public with their predatory mortgages; fees; and failure to lend locally. As we said today: "They got bailed out. WE got sold out." They pay little or no taxes, and then spend (our) $ buying our elected representatives.
They continue to rip off the public with their predatory mortgages; fees; and failure to lend locally. As we said today: "They got bailed out. WE got sold out." They pay little or no taxes, and then spend (our) $ buying our elected representatives.
13
@ Supreme - yeah rate chasing doesn't seem totally worth it. Pick a horse, any horse, just as long as it isn't a jerk. Different financial institutions will offer different gimmicks to make it worth your while. Overall they're fairly competitive with each other.
Though I am tempted to see how many CU's I can sign up for that offer that high yield on the first $500.00. I'm eligible for School Employees Credit Union that offer I think 7% on the first 500. If I can open an account with a click of a button; I just may do so.
Though I am tempted to see how many CU's I can sign up for that offer that high yield on the first $500.00. I'm eligible for School Employees Credit Union that offer I think 7% on the first 500. If I can open an account with a click of a button; I just may do so.
14
Hmmm-----lots of piss and vinegar here and lots of ideas for how it should be from folks who haven't even bothered to stop and think and are just generally hoping it all goes away. RE: aging hippie singer on stage------Seattle Jim Page....www.jimpage.net------been playing and singing in Seattle for over 40 years--22 albums--covered by Christy Moore and others, toured internationally mucho times---- on an on an on. So looks like you're a little out of the loop. Go back to Lady Gaga if you can't look beyond someone's age. And please understand that your suggestions are fine---there's room in a public forum for much more than your cynical un productive offerings..........
15
secuwa does offer 7% on the first deposit. It is also great on fees. You can use any other credit union ATM for free. Any ATM at a 7/11 for free. And over draft fees are only 2.50. That sure beats the $30 that most banks charge for overdrawing your account. The only downside I can find is the hrs they are open. The online banking is pretty good. I didn't have to move my funds because they were already in a credit union. If you have good credit they also have great rates on loans.
17
folks taking their business elsewhere cause they don't like the service they were getting.
sounds like capitalism is alive and well in the OWS.....
sounds like capitalism is alive and well in the OWS.....
18
@17: OWS isn't demanding an end to capitalism. It's demanding regulation within capitalism. It's terribly hard to fathom, I know, when you see signs from the socialist party, the communist party, even the anarchist contingents! But look: The capitalists don't need signs, they're in the majority. And we're sick to death of watching the goal lines changed underneath us. There's no contradiction in wanting financial regulation and being pro-capitalism.
19
@18
Um, you don't speak for OWS.
There are many core organizers who do, in fact, want to end capitalism. In particular, there are quite a few people at the core of the movement who reject regulation on the grounds that it only legitimizes the present socioeconomic order.
You're what the organizing core would call a "liberal", the right wing within the movement, as opposed to the "radicals" on the left wing. I'd consider myself a liberal, too, but I do recognize that a lot of the energy in the movement, and all of its organizational structure and initial planning, has come from the radicals.
Um, you don't speak for OWS.
There are many core organizers who do, in fact, want to end capitalism. In particular, there are quite a few people at the core of the movement who reject regulation on the grounds that it only legitimizes the present socioeconomic order.
You're what the organizing core would call a "liberal", the right wing within the movement, as opposed to the "radicals" on the left wing. I'd consider myself a liberal, too, but I do recognize that a lot of the energy in the movement, and all of its organizational structure and initial planning, has come from the radicals.
20
@19 A safe majority of us in this country will always want to live under regulated capitalism. Setting that aside do you REALLY think that any reasonable adult takes you seriously when you're talking that Marxism crap?
21
"There are 650,000 Americans transferring their bank accounts to local banks or credit unions, according to Seattle City Council member Mike O'Brien."
where's he getting this number from? is that just today?
i hear a lot of these numbers thrown out but very little citing of the facts. can "the stranger" provide a link to back that up for o'brien? i'd be interested to see if it was actually that many or just 650 people or some other figure - maybe more?
where's he getting this number from? is that just today?
i hear a lot of these numbers thrown out but very little citing of the facts. can "the stranger" provide a link to back that up for o'brien? i'd be interested to see if it was actually that many or just 650 people or some other figure - maybe more?
22
@1: Would you care to point out ANY MOMENT of today's demonstration where the anarchists took over?
What's that? You can't because it never happened? Thought so.
What's that? You can't because it never happened? Thought so.
23
#18
Actually you could argue that it's not capitalism, but a lack thereof that is the problem. Super Capitalism (as Robert Reich's book is entitled) could be a better answer.
So, someone from outer space might look around and see all the things that are subsidized or inflated artificially, while ordinary hard labor goes unrewarded (think, nearly anyone whoever wrote a word on the web).
The effort then becomes far more intellectual, in that we would be best to perform a kind of reverse arbitrage...ferreting out the freeloaders on the system rather than tearful rants in the crib.
Actually you could argue that it's not capitalism, but a lack thereof that is the problem. Super Capitalism (as Robert Reich's book is entitled) could be a better answer.
So, someone from outer space might look around and see all the things that are subsidized or inflated artificially, while ordinary hard labor goes unrewarded (think, nearly anyone whoever wrote a word on the web).
The effort then becomes far more intellectual, in that we would be best to perform a kind of reverse arbitrage...ferreting out the freeloaders on the system rather than tearful rants in the crib.
24
@21: American Banker estimates 650,000 people closed their bank accounts and opened credit union accounts since September 29 -- that's more than all the new accounts for 2010:
"In a survey of 5,000 of its credit union members CUNA estimates that at least 650,000 consumers across the nation have joined credit unions since Sept. 29, the day Bank of America unveiled its now-rescinded $5 monthly debit card fee. Also during that time, CUNA estimates that credit unions have added $4.5 billion in new savings accounts, likely from the new members and existing members shifting their funds."
Read it here: www.americanbanker.com/issues/176_214/cu…
"In a survey of 5,000 of its credit union members CUNA estimates that at least 650,000 consumers across the nation have joined credit unions since Sept. 29, the day Bank of America unveiled its now-rescinded $5 monthly debit card fee. Also during that time, CUNA estimates that credit unions have added $4.5 billion in new savings accounts, likely from the new members and existing members shifting their funds."
Read it here: www.americanbanker.com/issues/176_214/cu…
25
Banks are awash in capital they can't lend.
$4.5 billion that requires the maintenance of 650,000 database entries and transaction tracking is probably more of a nuisance to them than anything.
$4.5 billion that requires the maintenance of 650,000 database entries and transaction tracking is probably more of a nuisance to them than anything.
26
@20
Basic reading comprehension, what is it?
I clearly, unambiguously stated that I consider myself a "liberal" in OWS parlance, meaning, roughly, one who favors in working within the system, voting, submitting to representational democracy, passing progressive legislation, etc etc. Marxism is at least as far from my personal politics as Feudalism or Despotism.
And at the same time, I do recognize that a lot of the energy, and all of the organizing and initial planning for OWS comes from the radicals involved in the protests.
@21 - gosh, how does Google work? The figure cited came from the Credit Union National Association.
Basic reading comprehension, what is it?
I clearly, unambiguously stated that I consider myself a "liberal" in OWS parlance, meaning, roughly, one who favors in working within the system, voting, submitting to representational democracy, passing progressive legislation, etc etc. Marxism is at least as far from my personal politics as Feudalism or Despotism.
And at the same time, I do recognize that a lot of the energy, and all of the organizing and initial planning for OWS comes from the radicals involved in the protests.
@21 - gosh, how does Google work? The figure cited came from the Credit Union National Association.
28
@25 - why can't they lend? I think it's more like they won't lend.
The second part of your post is conjecture. They're not out to make high profits for shareholders or high pay grades for execs. Their boards serve for free. With that in mind, I doubt the accounts or money would be considered a nuisance.
The second part of your post is conjecture. They're not out to make high profits for shareholders or high pay grades for execs. Their boards serve for free. With that in mind, I doubt the accounts or money would be considered a nuisance.
30
@25
Large national banks are awash in capital, but they could lend if they wanted to. The problem* at present is not that huge retail banks can't lend any of the cash they're sitting on, but rather that they have no incentive to do so.
* this is the problem only for those, like myself, who are more or less comfortable with some form of Capitalism or other; for those who reject that system, the problem is quite a bit more involved.
Large national banks are awash in capital, but they could lend if they wanted to. The problem* at present is not that huge retail banks can't lend any of the cash they're sitting on, but rather that they have no incentive to do so.
* this is the problem only for those, like myself, who are more or less comfortable with some form of Capitalism or other; for those who reject that system, the problem is quite a bit more involved.
32
@13:
If you really want to go that route, technically there's nothing stopping you from opening accounts at any WA-based CU, simply by providing proof of residency. The requirement for being a company employee or immediate relative of an employee was dropped a number of years ago; which is why "Boeing Employees Credit Union" (or Weyerhaeuser, or Darigold et al) no longer include the names of the companies themselves in their titles.
If you really want to go that route, technically there's nothing stopping you from opening accounts at any WA-based CU, simply by providing proof of residency. The requirement for being a company employee or immediate relative of an employee was dropped a number of years ago; which is why "Boeing Employees Credit Union" (or Weyerhaeuser, or Darigold et al) no longer include the names of the companies themselves in their titles.
33
Almost every major progressive social movement in the last 100 years of US history has been led by radicals like anarchists and socialists. There is a huge amount of evidence suggesting the movements probably would have failed without them. They have an ideological commitment and understanding of strategy that most regular people will never develop. This enables them to mobilize people and frame issues better than most other people. In fact, certain groups (such as Leninists and Trotskyists) make it a point to become key organizers in various movements, as a means to make connections between larger issues and build their own organizations.
This extends all the way back to the Settlement Houses of the 1890s-1910s and the Progressive era, where socialist candidate for president Eugene Victor Debbs ran for president from prison, gaining almost 10% of the popular vote, and the Industrial Worker's of the World organized workers all over the West Coast. If you don't know about the IWW, then I suggest learning about your own state's history. Look up the Everett Massacre and get back to me.
It extended into the 1934-1938 mass wave of unionization and strikes, where unaffiliated Leftists like Farrel Dobbs in Ohio and Harry Bridges in San Francisco worked with anarchists and even the US Communist Party to build powerful union locals and Internationals. BTW, Harry Bridges was the founder of the ILWU, one of the most radical and POWERFUL unions in US history.
The progressive movements of the 1960s were largely led by radicals. Some of the main freedom riders, the founders of the Civil Rights movement and most of the prominent members of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) were hardcore radicals. And while people like Marin Luther King JR. weren't necessarily party affiliated, they were very, very open to radicalism. King himself started drifting more towards Socialism in his last few years. In fact, some historians consider his radicalization one of the main things contributing to his assassination.
Most recently, the HUGE antiwar actions of 2002-2003 (the biggest protests in world history) were largely ran by radical front groups. ANSWER was originally a project of the International Action Center, a Stalinist front group with pretty bad politics but great political strategies. Even relatively innocuous groups like United For Peace and Justice (UFPJ) were intimately connected with radical factions within the Quaker movement and left wing "liberation theologists."
In short, criticizing radicals for "taking over the movement" displays a very limited understanding of your own country's history and what is going on right now. These are the exact people you want behind a social movement, and they are one of the many reasons the occupy actions are doing so well across the US and the world. Truly successful movements require a diversity of tactics and a ton of commitment. All of you sitting here and complaining about radicals should get off your asses, get down to the protests and make your voices heard. Otherwise, you're just perpetuating the problem, and are ultimately choosing to sleep through the most important movement in US history over the last forty years. Good for you.. I guess.
More...
This extends all the way back to the Settlement Houses of the 1890s-1910s and the Progressive era, where socialist candidate for president Eugene Victor Debbs ran for president from prison, gaining almost 10% of the popular vote, and the Industrial Worker's of the World organized workers all over the West Coast. If you don't know about the IWW, then I suggest learning about your own state's history. Look up the Everett Massacre and get back to me.
It extended into the 1934-1938 mass wave of unionization and strikes, where unaffiliated Leftists like Farrel Dobbs in Ohio and Harry Bridges in San Francisco worked with anarchists and even the US Communist Party to build powerful union locals and Internationals. BTW, Harry Bridges was the founder of the ILWU, one of the most radical and POWERFUL unions in US history.
The progressive movements of the 1960s were largely led by radicals. Some of the main freedom riders, the founders of the Civil Rights movement and most of the prominent members of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) were hardcore radicals. And while people like Marin Luther King JR. weren't necessarily party affiliated, they were very, very open to radicalism. King himself started drifting more towards Socialism in his last few years. In fact, some historians consider his radicalization one of the main things contributing to his assassination.
Most recently, the HUGE antiwar actions of 2002-2003 (the biggest protests in world history) were largely ran by radical front groups. ANSWER was originally a project of the International Action Center, a Stalinist front group with pretty bad politics but great political strategies. Even relatively innocuous groups like United For Peace and Justice (UFPJ) were intimately connected with radical factions within the Quaker movement and left wing "liberation theologists."
In short, criticizing radicals for "taking over the movement" displays a very limited understanding of your own country's history and what is going on right now. These are the exact people you want behind a social movement, and they are one of the many reasons the occupy actions are doing so well across the US and the world. Truly successful movements require a diversity of tactics and a ton of commitment. All of you sitting here and complaining about radicals should get off your asses, get down to the protests and make your voices heard. Otherwise, you're just perpetuating the problem, and are ultimately choosing to sleep through the most important movement in US history over the last forty years. Good for you.. I guess.
34
Campaign finance reform would great and very symbolic. School board races, for instance, don't have any limits. The incumbents have been heavily bankrolled by wealthy eastsiders, both for the current race and the last one. (BTW, the challengers are all strong candidates who I urge everyone to vote for).
35
I love my bank, they treat me right ... credit unions treat me like shit ... so meh. If someone prefers the credit union, more power to them ... but how long until that credit union is the next WaMu?
37
My experience with big banks has been like @35. I've been surprised how much better Chase treats me than WaMu did. And Chase gives me more feebies I've had more problems with small banks than with large.
38
Feudalism was replaced by Capitalism, though it was a bloody task. Capitalism is played out now. Its like a wounded dog dragging it's lame leg. We stand at the doorstep of "Reconstructed Socialism."
Why is everyone so afraid of Socialism? It is a far more humanitarian concept. Super Capitalism will only create a deeper financial pit that no one can climb out of. There is little left to take, and the common person cant afford dental care? No funds for education? No funds for the environment? No food for the hungry? How could that be, in this rich land?
I truly wish you self proclaimed capitalists would pull your heads out of your asses, and just look at what any cemi-intelligent person who isn't brainwashed can see each day, when they walk out their doors.
Capitalism can no longer sustain itself, and at he same time ethically support the citizens of this country with common ground. If you fear socialism, at least embrace the concept of "The Robin Hood Tax." If we are all ruled by the dollar, and don't give a damn about other people in our society, we have sold our humanity, and we will surely collapse.
I keep waiting for Jamie Dimon to scream "Let them eat cake." And we all know what happens then.
~Top Hat
Why is everyone so afraid of Socialism? It is a far more humanitarian concept. Super Capitalism will only create a deeper financial pit that no one can climb out of. There is little left to take, and the common person cant afford dental care? No funds for education? No funds for the environment? No food for the hungry? How could that be, in this rich land?
I truly wish you self proclaimed capitalists would pull your heads out of your asses, and just look at what any cemi-intelligent person who isn't brainwashed can see each day, when they walk out their doors.
Capitalism can no longer sustain itself, and at he same time ethically support the citizens of this country with common ground. If you fear socialism, at least embrace the concept of "The Robin Hood Tax." If we are all ruled by the dollar, and don't give a damn about other people in our society, we have sold our humanity, and we will surely collapse.
I keep waiting for Jamie Dimon to scream "Let them eat cake." And we all know what happens then.
~Top Hat
39
Oh KittenKoder, poor KittenKoder, with your fast food job and your mysterious sexual injury. I think you are a perfect customer for a large bank.
And it's sweet of you to be concerned for all the poor credit union customers, especially since those institutions are so universally hostile to you (have you tried calling the police about that? I'm sure they'd love to hear from someone like you, and give your concerns the attention they deserve) but there is an agency called the NCUA that provides the same deposit protections as the FDIC. So worry not your dear little heart.
And it's sweet of you to be concerned for all the poor credit union customers, especially since those institutions are so universally hostile to you (have you tried calling the police about that? I'm sure they'd love to hear from someone like you, and give your concerns the attention they deserve) but there is an agency called the NCUA that provides the same deposit protections as the FDIC. So worry not your dear little heart.
40
@8 Credit Unions are often great for moderate amounts. Once you get into the big bucks often big banks will give you better terms.
OWS should do more stuff like Bank Transfer Day. Actually has an effect, helps educate people, and gets positive attention. Blocking intersections is a douchebag maneuver though.
This was also pretty awesome
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/11/02…
OWS should do more stuff like Bank Transfer Day. Actually has an effect, helps educate people, and gets positive attention. Blocking intersections is a douchebag maneuver though.
This was also pretty awesome
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/11/02…
41
#31 That is quite an ignorant statement right there. The people who go to work on Saturday are the people who are taking care of the old, disabled, and sick. The people who pour your coffee and clean up after you so you have a bathroom to use. The people working for minimum wage with no healthcare or who need a second job just to put food on the table for their families. I wholeheartedly agree with the movement you are a part of but statements like that make me question your understanding of issues outside of your own and your ability to speak for those who CANNOT be there.
42
@36
It's not bullshit at all. OWS has no leaders, of course, but it definitely has an organizing core.
Who do you suppose planned the initial NYC action?
Who initiated the actions, at every site including NYC?
Who established the internal political structure known as General Assembly, identical at every site?
Who is guarding against external hierarchical groups (e.g. labor unions, political parties) co-opting the occupation?
"No leaders" is not a post-facto description of the occupation's structure, it is a core tenet of the organizer's political philosophy. It is not a byproduct of a broad, ad-hoc coalition, but rather a very deliberately established and socially enforced political mechanic.
It's not bullshit at all. OWS has no leaders, of course, but it definitely has an organizing core.
Who do you suppose planned the initial NYC action?
Who initiated the actions, at every site including NYC?
Who established the internal political structure known as General Assembly, identical at every site?
Who is guarding against external hierarchical groups (e.g. labor unions, political parties) co-opting the occupation?
"No leaders" is not a post-facto description of the occupation's structure, it is a core tenet of the organizer's political philosophy. It is not a byproduct of a broad, ad-hoc coalition, but rather a very deliberately established and socially enforced political mechanic.
43
without the communist parties of france and germany
it is unlikely they would have had strong social democratic parties or national health care and the well working systems they have today of strongly regulated capitalism.
without the threat of communism it is unlikely the british labor party would be so strong today. without the threat of communism it is unlikely winston churchil would have helped create reforms like unemployment insurance.
when the socialist international was formed back in the 1870s most working class people in europe didn't even have the VOTE they only got it thru the threat of socialism (old meaning of socialism...ie end of capitalism and democracy).
Nobody ever made social progress the way obama tries to do it thru negotiating with insurers and the GOP and the 1% or inviting them into the white house to advise him on how to not regulate wall street.
it is unlikely they would have had strong social democratic parties or national health care and the well working systems they have today of strongly regulated capitalism.
without the threat of communism it is unlikely the british labor party would be so strong today. without the threat of communism it is unlikely winston churchil would have helped create reforms like unemployment insurance.
when the socialist international was formed back in the 1870s most working class people in europe didn't even have the VOTE they only got it thru the threat of socialism (old meaning of socialism...ie end of capitalism and democracy).
Nobody ever made social progress the way obama tries to do it thru negotiating with insurers and the GOP and the 1% or inviting them into the white house to advise him on how to not regulate wall street.
44
Not entirely current with our UKian politics, are we?
without the threat of communism it is unlikely the british labor party would be so strong today.
Not entirely current with our UKian politics, are we?
45
You know, broadcasting to the world that OS has been taken over by socialists, communists and anarchists, rather than more moderate liberals, isn't exactly gonna help the cause. Socialists and communists pull in less than 0.1% of the vote. Not exactly the 99%.
BTW, didn't you hear? THe US census bureau admits poverty figures have been padded for years. Read all about in Friday's NYT: "Bleak Portrait of Poverty Is Off the Mark"
Enjoy the circle jerk. Over by Xmas.
P.S. @43 are u talking new labour or old labour? I believe Tony Benn is a babbling old Lord now and Arthur Scargill a footnote in the defeat of British socialism.
BTW, didn't you hear? THe US census bureau admits poverty figures have been padded for years. Read all about in Friday's NYT: "Bleak Portrait of Poverty Is Off the Mark"
Enjoy the circle jerk. Over by Xmas.
P.S. @43 are u talking new labour or old labour? I believe Tony Benn is a babbling old Lord now and Arthur Scargill a footnote in the defeat of British socialism.
47
Something else to consider is moving your debt to a credit union. I already had my checking and savings accounts with my local credit union, but these issues and protests made me think about my Visa and MasterCard accounts. I don 't owe a whole lot on either, but I began to think about who I'm paying interest to. After looking into it, I found that my credit union offered a Visa card with a slightly lower interest rate than I'm paying now. It will even be more convenient to make payments from my checking account online. I mailed in my application on 11/5, and as soon as I am approved, I'll be transferring my balances.
Chase and First USA will no longer be getting interest from me, instead it will go to a member-owned not-for-profit organization in my community. Appropriately, my credit union is located on Main Street in my home town.
Chase and First USA will no longer be getting interest from me, instead it will go to a member-owned not-for-profit organization in my community. Appropriately, my credit union is located on Main Street in my home town.
48
@45
OWS hasn't been taken over by socialists, communists, and anarchists. It was planned and initiated by socialists, communists and anarchists, and they're still at the core of the movement.
If anything, the "more moderate" participants are the gate-crashers, majority or no.
It might not help to have people "broadcasting" this sort of basic, easily-obtained information about the organization and history of OWS, but trying to suppress it sure as shit wouldn't help anyone, either.
I'm not sure who you're referring to when you repeat that "circle jerk" catchphrase in every single comment you post. I'm certainly not a core organizer of OWS; I'm not even a radical.
OWS hasn't been taken over by socialists, communists, and anarchists. It was planned and initiated by socialists, communists and anarchists, and they're still at the core of the movement.
If anything, the "more moderate" participants are the gate-crashers, majority or no.
It might not help to have people "broadcasting" this sort of basic, easily-obtained information about the organization and history of OWS, but trying to suppress it sure as shit wouldn't help anyone, either.
I'm not sure who you're referring to when you repeat that "circle jerk" catchphrase in every single comment you post. I'm certainly not a core organizer of OWS; I'm not even a radical.
49
@46
No.
Large banks won't touch payday lending. They're allergic to legal exposure, and they've known for many years that it's only a matter of time before the profit margins in the sector are legislated out of existence, in states where that hasn't already happened.
No.
Large banks won't touch payday lending. They're allergic to legal exposure, and they've known for many years that it's only a matter of time before the profit margins in the sector are legislated out of existence, in states where that hasn't already happened.
50
Non-hierarchical .... The inevitable product of our 'everyone gets a gold star' education system that has convinced morons that everyone is equal. no more ambition. No more competition. No wonder the Chinese are going to eat our lunch, America's been pussified.
51
@50
Various schools of anarchism, and the sorts of non-hierarchical organizational systems that they logically require, are older than the American public education system, let alone the particular trends you're getting yourself all worked up over, there.
Perhaps your own education wasn't comprehensive enough to include the history of any dissident Western political movements, other than Communism? That was a pretty common educational shortcoming during the Cold War.
Various schools of anarchism, and the sorts of non-hierarchical organizational systems that they logically require, are older than the American public education system, let alone the particular trends you're getting yourself all worked up over, there.
Perhaps your own education wasn't comprehensive enough to include the history of any dissident Western political movements, other than Communism? That was a pretty common educational shortcoming during the Cold War.
52
@supreme:
BECU accounts yield high interest on the first $1000, by way of requiring you to open one savings account and one checking. Nit-picky, I know. But it changes your math a bit.
BECU accounts yield high interest on the first $1000, by way of requiring you to open one savings account and one checking. Nit-picky, I know. But it changes your math a bit.
53
"Perhaps your own education wasn't comprehensive enough"
Well I wasn't educated in the US; and you're right, we were too busy reading Caesar's Gallic Wars in Latin to study anarchism and its successes in western history beyond igniting World War One.
But congratulations, it's this kind of arrogance that always destroys the American left for ordinary, hard working Americans, who didn't go to college or have time for twinkling fingers in self-taught anarchists' circle jerks.
Well I wasn't educated in the US; and you're right, we were too busy reading Caesar's Gallic Wars in Latin to study anarchism and its successes in western history beyond igniting World War One.
But congratulations, it's this kind of arrogance that always destroys the American left for ordinary, hard working Americans, who didn't go to college or have time for twinkling fingers in self-taught anarchists' circle jerks.
54
@53
All I'm suggesting is that if you're going to whine about modern education, it's probably best to do it in a way that reflects well on your own schooling.
All I'm suggesting is that if you're going to whine about modern education, it's probably best to do it in a way that reflects well on your own schooling.
55
BTW can we expect more rapes, assaults and thefts (as reported in this morning's NYT) at Occupy Wall Streets around the USA as these anarchists' camps grow? Is that the future you're offering the AMerican people?
Good luck with that.
Good luck with that.
56
"it's probably best to do it in a way that reflects well on your own schooling"
Oh no, I stand by my statement that much of this finger twinkling, masturbatory 'egalitarianism' down at OS is the product of the gradual slide in American schooling in the past 20 years where competitiveness, individualism and ambition are frowned upon and collectivism and group-think are encouraged. It's the end product of the 'everyone gets a goal star' culture of egalitarianism and self-esteem worship and is, quite frankly, worthless to the competitive future of the USA.
Oh no, I stand by my statement that much of this finger twinkling, masturbatory 'egalitarianism' down at OS is the product of the gradual slide in American schooling in the past 20 years where competitiveness, individualism and ambition are frowned upon and collectivism and group-think are encouraged. It's the end product of the 'everyone gets a goal star' culture of egalitarianism and self-esteem worship and is, quite frankly, worthless to the competitive future of the USA.
57
@55
Yes, we probably can. And again, I don't know who you're addressing with that "Is that the future you're offering the American people?" How did you come to the conclusion that I'm some sort of spokesperson for OWS, or even sympathetic to anarchist ideology?
Do you find criticism credible only when it is uninformed?
Yes, we probably can. And again, I don't know who you're addressing with that "Is that the future you're offering the American people?" How did you come to the conclusion that I'm some sort of spokesperson for OWS, or even sympathetic to anarchist ideology?
Do you find criticism credible only when it is uninformed?
58
@56
Good.
Stating it that way doesn't make your own education look inadequate.
Well, except for the "goal star" typo, but that's merely inattention, not ignorance.... unless you weren't aware that the idiom is "gold star."
Good.
Stating it that way doesn't make your own education look inadequate.
Well, except for the "goal star" typo, but that's merely inattention, not ignorance.... unless you weren't aware that the idiom is "gold star."
59
@58 Seeing as how I spelt it properly earlier, you can fault the iPhone's spell check 2nd time around.
61
@59: If your iphone allowed you to spell it correctly earlier, how could the spell-check be a problem the second time around?
62
I was there. Love Occupiers!
What do I love? They make space for differing views & differing priorities, while uniting people who
-pay their share of taxes
-don't want to do business with off-shoring, billion-dollar businesses, who don't pay taxes
-don't like having to fight for 'bennies' from programs they've paid into
-don't want to rescue failing banks from results of illegal lending practices (mortgage scandal / actual jail time anybody?)
-object to CEOs trotting off from businesses w/ multi-million dollar severence packages, when US taxes don't get paid (did I say that again?)
You know the drill. Justice would be good: those who pay into government or special programs get helped; and those who don't, aren't ever "too big to fail "!
Yup, Occupiers are great!
What do I love? They make space for differing views & differing priorities, while uniting people who
-pay their share of taxes
-don't want to do business with off-shoring, billion-dollar businesses, who don't pay taxes
-don't like having to fight for 'bennies' from programs they've paid into
-don't want to rescue failing banks from results of illegal lending practices (mortgage scandal / actual jail time anybody?)
-object to CEOs trotting off from businesses w/ multi-million dollar severence packages, when US taxes don't get paid (did I say that again?)
You know the drill. Justice would be good: those who pay into government or special programs get helped; and those who don't, aren't ever "too big to fail "!
Yup, Occupiers are great!
63
Any more sexual assaults, broken bottle slashing, drugs, booze or Nazis this week? I suspect SCCC's patience will wear thin as this becomes just another hobo camp filled with dopers, drunks and lunatics.
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