Slog
News & ArtsThursday, November 3, 2011
International Chimerica Today: A Reality Check
Posted by Charles Mudede on Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 8:40 AM
Why will China not dominate the world? Precisely because the US is by far the most racially advanced society in the world. This is the great contradiction. The US's long struggle with race relations has transformed it into the most racially tolerant nation. This tolerance means it can draw deeply from the global intellect (or what Italian Marxists call "the general intellect"). Intellect is now global. You cannot depend on your own population for a steady supply of intellectual innovation. You need to be globally tentacular.
Because China will not replace the US in this regard (the center of global intellect), we can pretty much see Japan, a homogenous society (it too failed to be a global intellect center), as its terminal point. China Today:
About 60 percent of the rich Chinese people, each of whom has a net asset of at least 60 million yuan ($9.44 million), said they intended to migrate from China, a report has found.
About 14 percent of them have either already migrated from China or have applied for migration.
The three most favored destinations by the Chinese rich are the United States, Canada and Singapore. The US is the first choice of some 40 percent of the people interviewed, according to a white paper jointly released by Hurun Report and the Bank of China (BOC) on Saturday.
According to US Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS), the number of Chinese applicants for investment immigration has exceeded applications from any other country or region.
What the rich do, the middle class also does given the opportunity. Homogenous Shanghai will not displace heterogenous New York. Furthermore, the US's continued cultural and intellectual dominance owes almost everything to black Americans. American tolerance (which is not highly developed but is simply more advanced than other places like Europe and Asia) was not materialized out of thin air. It was (and still is) for black Americans a matter of "blood, sweat, and tears."
2
"Furthermore, the US's continued cultural and intellectual dominance owes almost everything to black Americans."
Does this strike anyone else as overtly racist?
Does this strike anyone else as overtly racist?
3
Chareles, as I regularly piss on you in the comments for your more egregious posts, let me compliment you for this cogent, insightful observation on the relative strength of the U.S. due to our grappling more effectively with diversity than other major countries.
I would add that in time India has the potential to become a rival on this front as it is a highly diverse, pluralistic democracy where the Dalit population is comparable to the African-American population in the U.S. As India more fully integrates and provides opportunities for members of the "lower" castes, the country will likely achieve a similar level of hard-won tolerance.
Then when they deal with the poverty and overpopulation the U.S. will have some serious competition.
I would add that in time India has the potential to become a rival on this front as it is a highly diverse, pluralistic democracy where the Dalit population is comparable to the African-American population in the U.S. As India more fully integrates and provides opportunities for members of the "lower" castes, the country will likely achieve a similar level of hard-won tolerance.
Then when they deal with the poverty and overpopulation the U.S. will have some serious competition.
4
What @ 3 said. I wouldn't go as far as @ 1, but this is a top notch post and you deserve credit for when you come through, Charles.
6
This is yet another reason we need our borders to be more open. Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free... but please also send over your rich, skilled, and intellegent.
7
What the hell did that excerpt have to do with race. All I got from it is "America is awesome and rich people want to live here." This is informed by American racial diversity how?
8
I'd have to say that Canada is way more racially "tolerant" than the US. If you're using the word "tolerant" to describe your relationship with a multi-ethnic society, then you've still got a long way to go.
9
"You cannot depend on your own population for a steady supply of intellectual innovation."
How can you say that homogenous Japan isn't a center of innovation?
I agree that innovation is embedded in our culture in a way that's difficult to duplicate, but Japan would seem to be a counter to the argument that innovation depends on racial tolerance and diversity.
How can you say that homogenous Japan isn't a center of innovation?
I agree that innovation is embedded in our culture in a way that's difficult to duplicate, but Japan would seem to be a counter to the argument that innovation depends on racial tolerance and diversity.
10
@8 You'll also notice that Vancouver's home prices have skyrocketed thanks mostly to a current wave of Chinese immigrants.
As I see it racial tolerance is a necessary but not sufficient condition for attracting immigrants.
As I see it racial tolerance is a necessary but not sufficient condition for attracting immigrants.
11
From the China Today article:
As for "the US's continued cultural and intellectual dominance owes almost everything to black Americans" ... well, that's just Charles being Charles.
Among all the destinations in terms of investment immigration, the US always outstand all other options as the country does not impose any quotaNote also that Canada, with much smaller GDP, nearly equals US as a destination.
As for "the US's continued cultural and intellectual dominance owes almost everything to black Americans" ... well, that's just Charles being Charles.
12
Can some explain the difference between "highly developed" tolerance and "more advanced" tolerance to me?
FWIW, I echo the sentiment that Canadian society seems much more multi-cultural and integrated that here in the US.
FWIW, I echo the sentiment that Canadian society seems much more multi-cultural and integrated that here in the US.
13
While I concur that Mr. M's comments are both articulate and eloquent, alas, they aren't really grounded in reality.
To date, the Transnational Capitalist Class members in North America have seen to offshore the bulk of the production assets (factories, R&D, processing facilities, etc., etc.) and capital assets (foreign investment capital) to China, India and elsewhere, but primarily to China.
Perhaps more importantly, they have also offshored the principal strategic assets: biopharmaceutical manufacturing (which Goldy likes to play Russian roulette with), microchips and digital electronics of all variety, munitions and weapons, and possibly the most strategic, derivatives processing (and that's not even considering that Morgan Stanley's entire mutual funds operation is in India).
The obvious plan is have America be the "financial center" and "security export center" (as in military and consequent imperialist activities) while China and elsewhere be where the jobs, production, R&D, etc., exist.
[FYI: "Because China will not replace the US in this regard.." You may recall when China expelled all the African students back in the '80s for what they claimed were several rapes allegedly committed by them in that country. --- so much for international totalitarianism.]
To date, the Transnational Capitalist Class members in North America have seen to offshore the bulk of the production assets (factories, R&D, processing facilities, etc., etc.) and capital assets (foreign investment capital) to China, India and elsewhere, but primarily to China.
Perhaps more importantly, they have also offshored the principal strategic assets: biopharmaceutical manufacturing (which Goldy likes to play Russian roulette with), microchips and digital electronics of all variety, munitions and weapons, and possibly the most strategic, derivatives processing (and that's not even considering that Morgan Stanley's entire mutual funds operation is in India).
The obvious plan is have America be the "financial center" and "security export center" (as in military and consequent imperialist activities) while China and elsewhere be where the jobs, production, R&D, etc., exist.
[FYI: "Because China will not replace the US in this regard.." You may recall when China expelled all the African students back in the '80s for what they claimed were several rapes allegedly committed by them in that country. --- so much for international totalitarianism.]
14
I'm tickled that all Charles has to do to get his critics' approval is tell them that America! Is! The! Greatest! @3, your first paragraph is practically purring from the strokes. But "most racially advanced society in the world"? From a Canadian point of view, this is just plainly, obviously untrue, and your willingness to swallow it is evidence of the strange blind spot in critical thinking skills that so many Americans seem to have when regarding themselves. For all of your wonderful attributes, the intensity and pervasiveness of American racism always comes as a bit of a shock to Canadians.
So, to @3 and those who agree with him/her, don't drink the kool-aid. And to Charles... calling this sort of nationalistic propaganda a "Reality Check" is beneath you. Leave it to Fox News.
So, to @3 and those who agree with him/her, don't drink the kool-aid. And to Charles... calling this sort of nationalistic propaganda a "Reality Check" is beneath you. Leave it to Fox News.
15
Charles, when you aren't trolling, race baiting, or cheering the wrongful imprisonment of innocent white women, your writing can be interesting, creative, and insightful, as the last week's worth of your posts demonstrate.
Of course, I've been here before with you. You write some good stuff, I let down my guard, and then pow, you post something as a stupid, ugly, and obnoxious as a fart in the face.
Of course, I've been here before with you. You write some good stuff, I let down my guard, and then pow, you post something as a stupid, ugly, and obnoxious as a fart in the face.
16
Another reason Chinese millionaires want to come to the US and Canada is the rule of law. A dictatorship where might makes right gives a tycoon certain advantages. He can mistreat his employees/tenants/customers with impunity. On the other hand he is in constant danger of losing everything by pissing off someone higher up the food chain. In a country like the US or Canada a rich man has to put up with tiresome things such as the statutory minimum wage and federal safety inspections, but he is less likely to have his wealth arbitrarily confiscated simply because he wound up on the wrong side of some political squabble.
17
@14: Charles is correct - the US is way ahead of the rest of the world when it comes to race relations. This isn't jingoism, it's a simple fact resulting from our country having the most liberal immigration policy in the world, certainly way more so than protectionist Canada.
Canada and other nations may not have as much racial strife as America, but that's because those countries are comparatively racially homogeneous, like Broadmoor, the gated community in Seattle.
I have a relative in Ontario (upper middle class, former exec at Whirlpool) who literally believes all our troubles would go away if non-whites were extinguished from the earth. My cousins used to endlessly make fun of the "packis" (i.e., Pakistani immigrants). Vancouver has fewer blacks than lily white Seattle.
Canada and other nations may not have as much racial strife as America, but that's because those countries are comparatively racially homogeneous, like Broadmoor, the gated community in Seattle.
I have a relative in Ontario (upper middle class, former exec at Whirlpool) who literally believes all our troubles would go away if non-whites were extinguished from the earth. My cousins used to endlessly make fun of the "packis" (i.e., Pakistani immigrants). Vancouver has fewer blacks than lily white Seattle.
18
@8, Canada is awfully tolerant of other races that are not present. There are a lot of South and East Asians in Canada, but only a tiny handful of black people, and virtually no Latinos of any kind. Canada is tolerant in the sense that Wallingford is tolerant.
19
@17 & 18, I stand by what I said. Yes, there is racism in Canada, but it is not as overt as in the U.S. That is based on my experience and the experiences of many people of different ethnicities I've encountered through the years who had knowledge of both countries.
From CIA factbook
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications…
Ethnic make-up of Canada:
British Isles origin 28%, French origin 23%, other European 15%, Amerindian 2%, other, mostly Asian, African, Arab 6%, mixed background 26%
European origin, i.e. white: 66%
Of the U.S.:
white 79.96%, black 12.85%, Asian 4.43%, Amerindian and Alaska native 0.97%, native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.18%, two or more races 1.61% (July 2007 estimate)
note: a separate listing for Hispanic is not included because the US Census Bureau considers Hispanic to mean persons of Spanish/Hispanic/Latino origin including those of Mexican, Cuban, Puerto Rican, Dominican Republic, Spanish, and Central or South American origin living in the US who may be of any race or ethnic group (white, black, Asian, etc.); about 15.1% of the total US population is Hispanic
The White, not-Hispanic or Latino population: 66% (Wikipedia, with citation)
From CIA factbook
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications…
Ethnic make-up of Canada:
British Isles origin 28%, French origin 23%, other European 15%, Amerindian 2%, other, mostly Asian, African, Arab 6%, mixed background 26%
European origin, i.e. white: 66%
Of the U.S.:
white 79.96%, black 12.85%, Asian 4.43%, Amerindian and Alaska native 0.97%, native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.18%, two or more races 1.61% (July 2007 estimate)
note: a separate listing for Hispanic is not included because the US Census Bureau considers Hispanic to mean persons of Spanish/Hispanic/Latino origin including those of Mexican, Cuban, Puerto Rican, Dominican Republic, Spanish, and Central or South American origin living in the US who may be of any race or ethnic group (white, black, Asian, etc.); about 15.1% of the total US population is Hispanic
The White, not-Hispanic or Latino population: 66% (Wikipedia, with citation)
20
Our intellectual dominance owes almost everything to black americans??? Surely that's a misprint. You mean white americans, right? That makes much more sense.
21
@17,
"According to Canada's Immigration Program (October 2004) Canada has the highest per capita immigration rate in the world [4] although statistics in the CIA World Factbook show that a number of city states and small island nations, as well as some larger countries in regions with refugee movements, have higher per capita rates". (Wikipedia, cited)
our country having the most liberal immigration policy in the world, certainly way more so than protectionist Canada.
"According to Canada's Immigration Program (October 2004) Canada has the highest per capita immigration rate in the world [4] although statistics in the CIA World Factbook show that a number of city states and small island nations, as well as some larger countries in regions with refugee movements, have higher per capita rates". (Wikipedia, cited)
22
Canada: 6.07 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2002 est.)
U.S.: 3.5 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2002 est.)
http://www.umsl.edu/services/govdocs/wof…
U.S.: 3.5 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2002 est.)
http://www.umsl.edu/services/govdocs/wof…
23
Irena, you're really awfully touchy about this.
Let me ask you - how are relations between English and French Canadians, generally? My visits to Canada were limited to a few visits to Vancouver when I lived in Seattle, but I heard some kind of anti-Quebec slur at least once each time I went to a Canucks game. You don't hear casual racism like that in America, unless you're in the South.
Let me ask you - how are relations between English and French Canadians, generally? My visits to Canada were limited to a few visits to Vancouver when I lived in Seattle, but I heard some kind of anti-Quebec slur at least once each time I went to a Canucks game. You don't hear casual racism like that in America, unless you're in the South.
24
@17, so you have a racist relative in Ontario and some ignorant cousins. Your point is...? If you're suggesting they're indicative of Canadians as a whole, that's just ridiculous. I was born in Canada and lived there for the first 30 years of my life. Having now lived in the U.S. for more than a decade, I can tell you that I've noticed far more racism and anti-immigrant sentiment here.
@18, it's simply false that there's only "a handful" of black people in Canada. Toronto's population is almost 9 percent black. It's true that the black population in Canada overall isn't very big, and that's largely because black people in Canada have mostly chosen voluntary immigration - you know, rather than being enslaved. So it's not "tolerance" that's created a larger black population in the U.S. or conversely, a lack of tolerance that explains Canada's relatively smaller black population.
Have either of you ever lived in a big Canadian city? I'm guessing not.
@18, it's simply false that there's only "a handful" of black people in Canada. Toronto's population is almost 9 percent black. It's true that the black population in Canada overall isn't very big, and that's largely because black people in Canada have mostly chosen voluntary immigration - you know, rather than being enslaved. So it's not "tolerance" that's created a larger black population in the U.S. or conversely, a lack of tolerance that explains Canada's relatively smaller black population.
Have either of you ever lived in a big Canadian city? I'm guessing not.
25
Matt, hearing Canucks fans bashing the French is sort of like hearing people in the Northern U.S. bashing Southerners. Which you never hear casually, like on Slog or anywhere, right?
27
@24, 9% in a large NE metropolis is pathetic. There are about the same number of people in Philadelphia than in all of Canada. And no Latinos at all. Go to Vancouver and sit downtown somewhere and count the black people you see. It could be hours before you record the first one.
28
@26, er, no, it's not ethnic-based bigotry. It's language-based. Although in the case of Canucks fans, I'd say it's hockey-based more than anything.
Look, it's easy to argue that Canada has its problems with racism. But if you're trying to say our problems are bigger than yours, or that Canadians are, by and large, more racist than Americans, well, good luck. Most of the world disagrees with you.
Look, it's easy to argue that Canada has its problems with racism. But if you're trying to say our problems are bigger than yours, or that Canadians are, by and large, more racist than Americans, well, good luck. Most of the world disagrees with you.
29
I have been told, by someone who would know, that "Hong Kong makes New York City look like Kansas City."
30
@ 28, actually, national/cultural-based bigotry would be the best way to describe it. As such, it's not comparable to north vs south stuff in the US because both groups have the same common culture, which isn't true of Canada's Francophone and Anglo-derived culutres. And it's pertinent if you're trying to argue that Canada is more advanced than the USA on this point.
Canada used to segregate it's minorities, too, when they got big enough. That's why Vancouver has a Chinatown at all.
The rest of the world has plenty of ethnic divisions and strife, too, so most of them lack a leg to stand on, as well.
Canada used to segregate it's minorities, too, when they got big enough. That's why Vancouver has a Chinatown at all.
The rest of the world has plenty of ethnic divisions and strife, too, so most of them lack a leg to stand on, as well.
31
@30, again, I keep hearing you argue that Canada's racist, too, which I never disputed. But I've yet to hear, from anyone, a good argument as to what makes the United States "the most racially tolerant nation" in the world. Seandr tried, but he had his facts wrong. Not even Fnarf has anything concrete to base this on. You like it because it makes you feel good, and it makes you feel good precisely because as a non-racist you are extremely sensitive to the racial animosity that divides your nation. You hate it, I know, and you want to be patted on the back for not being racist yourself, thankyouverymuch, but that doesn't change the fact that no one in the world outside of the US hears "most racially tolerant nation" and thinks of you guys. I'm sorry, but it's true.
I will say this: Non-racist Americans are the most passionately non-racist people I have ever encountered. You hate racism, not necessarily because you've suffered from it (though some have), but because you've seen the harm it's done to your country, and you love your country so much. I doubt there's another nation where so many of the most privileged group are so angry at the system that privileges them. I respect that -- but it doesn't change the fact that there are deep, damaging currents of racism that even now destabilize your country. If there weren't, you wouldn't feel the need to make these arguments. As it is, you protest too much.
I will say this: Non-racist Americans are the most passionately non-racist people I have ever encountered. You hate racism, not necessarily because you've suffered from it (though some have), but because you've seen the harm it's done to your country, and you love your country so much. I doubt there's another nation where so many of the most privileged group are so angry at the system that privileges them. I respect that -- but it doesn't change the fact that there are deep, damaging currents of racism that even now destabilize your country. If there weren't, you wouldn't feel the need to make these arguments. As it is, you protest too much.
32
@ 31, bringing up your Canadian viewpoint, as you called it, implied that you believe Canada is more advanced in this regard. Everyone's reactions should have made it clear, but you waited til now to say that you don't dispute Canadian bigotry.
Personally, I don't know if America is the most racially advanced nation or not. It could well be Canada, or it could be the former West Germany (which confronted the Holocaust and adopted the world's most liberal immigration policies; the former East Germany did not and is where most of reunified Germany's neo nazis come from.) That particular point didn't inspire my praise. Charles often exaggerates to make a point. But... The USA is a lot further along than many places, and his general point is sound. I have given him shit for his lazy and sometimes thoughtless posts, so I ought to say when I think he's written something good.
Personally, I don't know if America is the most racially advanced nation or not. It could well be Canada, or it could be the former West Germany (which confronted the Holocaust and adopted the world's most liberal immigration policies; the former East Germany did not and is where most of reunified Germany's neo nazis come from.) That particular point didn't inspire my praise. Charles often exaggerates to make a point. But... The USA is a lot further along than many places, and his general point is sound. I have given him shit for his lazy and sometimes thoughtless posts, so I ought to say when I think he's written something good.
33
@32, I said "there is racism in Canada" in my second comment (@19), and I've said it here many times in the past. I would never deny it. I'm also not arguing that Canada "is the most racially advanced nation"; I think anyone bragging like that without laying down a whole bunch of facts is going to run into trouble. But I agree with you that the US is a lot further along than many places, and you deserve credit for that. I hope I made that clear in my last post.
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