Slog
News & ArtsWednesday, November 2, 2011
Savage Love SL Letter of the Day: Buttsex Free At Last
Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 5:53 PM
As a gay guy who also doesn't like anal, I appreciated the letter from WAMEA and your response. I thought I should offer some encouragement.
A little while ago I started dating a fellow non-anal guy, and since then, we've fallen in love with each other—and since I gave up fucking, my sex life has never been better. In the past, I only let guys I was dating or hooking up with fuck me because they insisted; I don't mean that in the sense that I was pressured into doing something I didn't want, but that I tolerated for their pleasure rather than enjoying it myself. In many cases, however, I found that anal ruined the moment for me or even turned me off. I even skip over the fucking parts when I watch porn.
While I can't assume that my experience is representative of everyone, I can't help wondering if a lot of guys out there have anal sex not because they like to, but because they feel as though they have to. Most of what gay and bi men learn about sex comes from porn, and "normal" porn usually portrays fucking as the high point of any sexual encounter. Porn in which the guys suck or jerk each other to orgasm is often marketed as a niche product. On top of that, there's a pervasive idea that you're a virgin until you've topped or bottomed, and I've often gotten strange looks when I've admitted I don't like anal.
Anyway, I think there's a lot more of us out there than meets the eye, and I think WAMEA only really needs to be honest and upfront about it.
A Fellow Non-Fucker
My response after the jump...
················
Thanks for writing and representing all of the non-buttfucking gay men out there, AFNF, but I think you're being a little hard on porn.
While a lot of people do learn about sex watching porn—and while far too many people are getting their "sex educations" watching porn *—I don't think it was porn alone, or even porn primarily, that elevated anal sex in gay sexual encounters to the status of vaginal sex in straight sexual encounters, i.e. the defining and default sexual activity.
It was primarily AIDS education.
People were buttfucking prior to AIDS and prior to AIDS ed campaigns—duh—but for three decades AIDS education campaigns have urged gay and bi men to use condoms every time they have sex. Now as the most efficient method of HIV transmission, anal sex is rightly the focus of AIDS ed campaigns. But in addition to pushing condoms at and on gay and bi men, HIV education campaigns also pushed the idea that all gay sexual encounters include anal. You can't put up posters in every gay bar on earth that say "use a condom every time" without putting it into gay and bi men's heads that they're going to be having anal sex—or will be expected to have anal sex—"every time."
Which is one of the reasons I was so delighted to read the results of the study I mentioned in my response to WAMEA: most gay and bi men aren't having anal sex "every time." Knowing that might empower more gay and bi men to decline to have anal sex, if anal sex isn't something they enjoy, or to not feel like they must have anal sex "every time," even if anal sex is something they do enjoy.
* Confidential to the sex/porn-o-phobes: porn isn't going anywhere. If we don't want kids and young adults to get their sex educations watching porn, well, then we'll have to get comprehensive sex education into the schools, i.e. sex ed that can compete with and offer a reality check the "educations" and unrealistic expectations that some people are getting from porn.
1
1- Porn gives unrealistic and unhealthy attitudes toward sex. period.
2- the notion that AIDS education rather than porn has promoted anal would be funny were it not so colossally monumentally asinine.
3- it is sad to see Danny so locked into his prejudices and bigotries....
2- the notion that AIDS education rather than porn has promoted anal would be funny were it not so colossally monumentally asinine.
3- it is sad to see Danny so locked into his prejudices and bigotries....
2
I'm glad your happy, AFNF! It sure sound to me that you're more of a AFNAF, though. You are doing the "F", it sounds like. Or maybe this fever has me confused.
I'll add that I'm so glad to have a school district that has comprehensive sex education for everyone whose parents do not remove them from class.
I'll add that I'm so glad to have a school district that has comprehensive sex education for everyone whose parents do not remove them from class.
3
Anal as practiced by homosexuals is, epidemiologically speaking, brutally destructive. Virtually guaranteed to transmit STDs.
Danny, if God made you gay, why didn't he give you a fuckable hole?
That seems cruel and sadistic.....
Danny, if God made you gay, why didn't he give you a fuckable hole?
That seems cruel and sadistic.....
4
"....you're being a little hard on porn."
get it?
HARD on porn....
UWAHAHAHA!
our little Danny is a punster!
get it?
HARD on porn....
UWAHAHAHA!
our little Danny is a punster!
5
Danny, if you are aware of ANY evidence that over the past three decades homosexuals paid ANY attention to AIDS education campaigns please share it......
6
gosh Danny weren't you telling America's kids and Bristol Palin that Anal was 100% SAFE and FOOLPROOF?
7
>"You can't put up posters in every gay bar on earth that say "use a condom every time" without putting it into gay and bi men's heads that they're going to be having anal sex—or will be expected to have anal sex—"every time.""<
Danny, are you aware that oral also can spread STDs?
And that protection is indicated then also?
Did you know that, Danny?
Danny, are you aware that oral also can spread STDs?
And that protection is indicated then also?
Did you know that, Danny?
8
@ 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7...
I know you like using the username as some kind of last laugh, so maybe that's why you're enjoying such a copious amount of comment diarrhea, but c'mon, surely you can collect your thoughts enough before writing a reply that you don't have to do it again, and again, and again, and again, and again.
I know you like using the username as some kind of last laugh, so maybe that's why you're enjoying such a copious amount of comment diarrhea, but c'mon, surely you can collect your thoughts enough before writing a reply that you don't have to do it again, and again, and again, and again, and again.
9
Wow. I guess "buttsex" in the headline is like a waving red cape to the anal-obsessed "Danny" troll. Haven't seen a frothing spaz-out like this in a while.
11
Very interesting response. I'll admit I've never thought about the effects of a comprehensive AIDS campaign in that particular respect. A very necessary one, but an interesting side effect. I must say, you'd never know from the written porn that anal wasn't required, either.
Glad LW is happy, my best to everyone everywhere with what they're happy with.
Oh and just to help out with red flag waving (chortle - does he even know what that signals?): buttsex! buttsex!
*sigh*. Barrel. Fish. Bang.
Glad LW is happy, my best to everyone everywhere with what they're happy with.
Oh and just to help out with red flag waving (chortle - does he even know what that signals?): buttsex! buttsex!
*sigh*. Barrel. Fish. Bang.
12
@1: "1- Porn gives unrealistic and unhealthy attitudes toward sex. period."
Saying "period" doesn't give your argument more weight, it only serves to make you look stupid.
The problem isn't "porn", the problem is certain types of erotica, and certain approaches to its consumption.
The majority of porn is terrible, and much of it is unhealthy. Saying "period" ignores the reality of the situation and promotes intellectual incuriosity.
Saying "period" doesn't give your argument more weight, it only serves to make you look stupid.
The problem isn't "porn", the problem is certain types of erotica, and certain approaches to its consumption.
The majority of porn is terrible, and much of it is unhealthy. Saying "period" ignores the reality of the situation and promotes intellectual incuriosity.
13
Hunh. And here all this time I thought it sprang from Jerry Falwell's & Anita Bryant's fevered imaginations.
14
I know this is going to sound crazy- but cant it also (work with me here) simply be a case of supply and demand? If the popularity of gay porn ending in anal play wasnt so desirable then porn industries wouldn't be so flooded with it. It is equally likely that there is simply so much porn with anal because it really IS a highly desired sex act.
Honestly, though? I don't think it's any one cause. And this chicken and the egg thing will get real tiring really quick. Needless to say there is PLENTY of porn out there that caters to the non-anal gays so why bother getting all riteous a about it?
Me personally? Even before being exposed to AIDS education, long before sex-Ed and the discovery of gay porn I was irreversibly drawn to a nice, round, bubble butt on a guy. I didn't even know why or what I wanted to do with it yet- but I knew i wanted to do something to it. Something hot. I wanted to play with it, rub it, whatever. The discovery of anal sex was less a "oh Jeez is this what they want me to do?" and more of a "FUCK YEAH! I can't WAIT to do that!"
To each their own though. Even an ass-obsessed man like me doesn't want to do anal all the time or even the majority of the time. It tends to be messy and an involved sexual act and is best saved for when both parties come prepared. And if the butt does nothing for you? Good for you! But to think that most guys would think like you if you simply removed the anal from porn or the crazy "condom every time" sex education is honestly ridiculous and very self-serving of you. And sounds eerily like the bigoted line of "if you show acceptance of Chaz Bono on national TV in a positive light it will make girls suddenly want to all become men!"
Honestly, though? I don't think it's any one cause. And this chicken and the egg thing will get real tiring really quick. Needless to say there is PLENTY of porn out there that caters to the non-anal gays so why bother getting all riteous a about it?
Me personally? Even before being exposed to AIDS education, long before sex-Ed and the discovery of gay porn I was irreversibly drawn to a nice, round, bubble butt on a guy. I didn't even know why or what I wanted to do with it yet- but I knew i wanted to do something to it. Something hot. I wanted to play with it, rub it, whatever. The discovery of anal sex was less a "oh Jeez is this what they want me to do?" and more of a "FUCK YEAH! I can't WAIT to do that!"
To each their own though. Even an ass-obsessed man like me doesn't want to do anal all the time or even the majority of the time. It tends to be messy and an involved sexual act and is best saved for when both parties come prepared. And if the butt does nothing for you? Good for you! But to think that most guys would think like you if you simply removed the anal from porn or the crazy "condom every time" sex education is honestly ridiculous and very self-serving of you. And sounds eerily like the bigoted line of "if you show acceptance of Chaz Bono on national TV in a positive light it will make girls suddenly want to all become men!"
15
12
wow.
making ourselves look stupid.
how embarrassing.
well, it could have been worse.
we could have claimed that AIDS education gives unrealistic and unhealthy attitudes toward sex.
wow.
making ourselves look stupid.
how embarrassing.
well, it could have been worse.
we could have claimed that AIDS education gives unrealistic and unhealthy attitudes toward sex.
17
When the LW says he's not into anal sex I assume he means bottoming. Pretty much every gay/bi guy likes topping.
18
@17 interesting point. I gather that there isn't a regular custom in gay culture of taking turns: you fuck my ass and then I'll fuck yours?
Is it fair to wonder if gay anal sex often mirrors bad hetero sex, where one partner enjoys fucking (as the top), and the other puts up with being fucked?
Hoping I'm way off base here...
Is it fair to wonder if gay anal sex often mirrors bad hetero sex, where one partner enjoys fucking (as the top), and the other puts up with being fucked?
Hoping I'm way off base here...
20
It gets worse...straight dudes blackmailed into gay sex!!
Boy Posing As Girl On Facebook Extorts Sex
Thirty-one victims were identified and interviewed and more than half said the girl with whom they thought they were communicating tried to get them to meet with a male friend to let him perform sex acts on them.
They were told that if they didn't, she would send the nude photos or movies to their friends and post them on the Internet, according to the complaint. Stancl allegedly used the excuse to get the victims to perform repeated acts, the complaint said.
Seven boys were identified in the complaint by their initials as either having to allegedly perform sex acts on Stancl or Stancl on them. The complaint said Stancl took photos with his cell phone of the encounters.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/02/0…
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@18 In my experience about 60 - 70% of gay men like having things in their ass, at least some time. For me receptive anal sex is a 'not on the first date' activity because I'm HIV negative and want to stay that way, but also because I have to develop an emotional attachment to a guy before having his thing in my butt hole gives me any pleasure.
23
@20
It's all allegation until it goes to court, but more importantly... through what tortured logic exactly do you think that's relevant to this thread?
It's all allegation until it goes to court, but more importantly... through what tortured logic exactly do you think that's relevant to this thread?
24
I'm a gay man and don't have a lot of sexual experience, but though I love to watch fucking in porn, my interest in it is as more of a "maybe down the line" kind of thing. I don't want to have buttsex with someone I don't know very, very well, and even then I don't envision it would be the cornerstone of my sexual expression, but I too am intimidated at the thought that it's somehow expected of me, and when I've talked to some of my friends (all of them straight), they insisted I was still a virgin until I filled a butthole or had my butthole filled. I always became angry and defensive and they wonder why I'm upset, as if they're just telling it like it is when trying to downgrade my sexual experiences.
I felt extremely vindicated when America's foremost sex-advice fag explained (in a YouTube video I shared) that oral sex is sex, mutual masturbation is sex, rolling around naked and getting off is sex, and that there are degrees of virginity and not an all-or-nothing matter of filling a hole. Thanks for continuing to defend us butt-fuck-optionals.
I felt extremely vindicated when America's foremost sex-advice fag explained (in a YouTube video I shared) that oral sex is sex, mutual masturbation is sex, rolling around naked and getting off is sex, and that there are degrees of virginity and not an all-or-nothing matter of filling a hole. Thanks for continuing to defend us butt-fuck-optionals.
25
21
Rates ARE down among normal Americans.
The only demographic in which AIDS is increasing is- guess!- homosexuals.
Why is that, Jr?
Rates ARE down among normal Americans.
The only demographic in which AIDS is increasing is- guess!- homosexuals.
Why is that, Jr?
26
CDC FACT SHEET
HIV and AIDS among Gay Men
Gay men continue to be the risk group most severely affected by HIV. CDC’s most recent data show that between 2006 and 2009, the number of new infections that occur each year increased among Gay men. These data clearly show the urgent need to expand access to proven HIV prevention programs for gay men, and to develop new approaches to fight HIV in this population.
A Snapshot
> Gay men account for nearly half of the approximately 1.2 million people living with HIV in the United States (49%, or an estimated 580,000 total persons).
> Gay men account for more than half of all new HIV infections in the United States each year (61%, or an estimated 29,300 infections).
> The rate of new HIV diagnoses among Gay men in the United States is more than 44 times that of other men (range: 522 – 989 per 100,000 Gay men vs. 12 per 100,000 other men).
HIV and AIDS among Gay Men
Gay men continue to be the risk group most severely affected by HIV. CDC’s most recent data show that between 2006 and 2009, the number of new infections that occur each year increased among Gay men. These data clearly show the urgent need to expand access to proven HIV prevention programs for gay men, and to develop new approaches to fight HIV in this population.
A Snapshot
> Gay men account for nearly half of the approximately 1.2 million people living with HIV in the United States (49%, or an estimated 580,000 total persons).
> Gay men account for more than half of all new HIV infections in the United States each year (61%, or an estimated 29,300 infections).
> The rate of new HIV diagnoses among Gay men in the United States is more than 44 times that of other men (range: 522 – 989 per 100,000 Gay men vs. 12 per 100,000 other men).
27
@17
Dudes. Gay, straight, or bi - they'll shove it in anything, anywhere. I'm just grateful that I'm a bit more discriminating with my lady bits. BTW, the HPV vaccine should be mandatory for all boys because their dirty cocks are major disease vectors for us ladies. Fucking bullshit.
Dudes. Gay, straight, or bi - they'll shove it in anything, anywhere. I'm just grateful that I'm a bit more discriminating with my lady bits. BTW, the HPV vaccine should be mandatory for all boys because their dirty cocks are major disease vectors for us ladies. Fucking bullshit.
28
CDC FACT SHEET
In a study of 21 major U.S. cities in 2008, Gay men had high levels of HIV infection, and many of those infected with HIV did not know it.
• Overall, one in five Gay men participating in the study was infected (20 percent).
• Among those who were infected, nearly half (44 percent) were unaware of their HIV status.
• AIDS continues to claim the lives of too many Gay men. Since the beginning of the epidemic, more than 286,000 Gay men with AIDS have died.
Complex Factors Increase Risk
> High prevalence of HIV: The existing high prevalence of HIV among gay men means they face a greater risk of being exposed to infection with each sexual encounter, especially as they get older.
> Lack of knowledge of HIV status: Studies show that individuals who know they are infected take steps to protect their partners. Yet many gay men are unaware of their status and may unknowingly be transmitting the virus to others. Additionally, some gay men may make false assumptions or have inaccurate information about their partner’s HIV status. It is critical to ensure that sexually active gay men get tested for HIV at least annually, or more frequently as needed.
> Complacency about risk: Among young MSM in particular, complacency about HIV may play a key role in HIV risk, since these men did not personally experience the severity of the early AIDS epidemic. Additional challenges for many gay men include maintaining consistently safe behaviors over time, underestimating personal risk, and the false belief that because of treatment advances, HIV is no longer a serious health threat. We must reach each generation of gay men and develop programs that can help gay men remain uninfected throughout the course of their lives.
More...
In a study of 21 major U.S. cities in 2008, Gay men had high levels of HIV infection, and many of those infected with HIV did not know it.
• Overall, one in five Gay men participating in the study was infected (20 percent).
• Among those who were infected, nearly half (44 percent) were unaware of their HIV status.
• AIDS continues to claim the lives of too many Gay men. Since the beginning of the epidemic, more than 286,000 Gay men with AIDS have died.
Complex Factors Increase Risk
> High prevalence of HIV: The existing high prevalence of HIV among gay men means they face a greater risk of being exposed to infection with each sexual encounter, especially as they get older.
> Lack of knowledge of HIV status: Studies show that individuals who know they are infected take steps to protect their partners. Yet many gay men are unaware of their status and may unknowingly be transmitting the virus to others. Additionally, some gay men may make false assumptions or have inaccurate information about their partner’s HIV status. It is critical to ensure that sexually active gay men get tested for HIV at least annually, or more frequently as needed.
> Complacency about risk: Among young MSM in particular, complacency about HIV may play a key role in HIV risk, since these men did not personally experience the severity of the early AIDS epidemic. Additional challenges for many gay men include maintaining consistently safe behaviors over time, underestimating personal risk, and the false belief that because of treatment advances, HIV is no longer a serious health threat. We must reach each generation of gay men and develop programs that can help gay men remain uninfected throughout the course of their lives.
29
@25
Because they're DUDES. If you could get laid as easily by your sexual interest as gay dudes can, you *would too*, asshole. But most ladies don't have the incredibly low standards as any-warm-hole-will-do DUDES. You're completely full of shit if you claim that the reason why you don't fuck like a bunny rabbit is because you're on a higher moral plane. It's because most ladies WON'T with you. Fucking idiot.
Because they're DUDES. If you could get laid as easily by your sexual interest as gay dudes can, you *would too*, asshole. But most ladies don't have the incredibly low standards as any-warm-hole-will-do DUDES. You're completely full of shit if you claim that the reason why you don't fuck like a bunny rabbit is because you're on a higher moral plane. It's because most ladies WON'T with you. Fucking idiot.
30
CDC FACT SHEET
HIV: Protect Yourself
Be smart about HIV. Here’s what you can do to reduce your risk of infection:
Get the facts — Arm yourself with basic information: Are you at risk? How is HIV spread? How can you protect yourself?
Take control — You have the facts; now protect yourself and your loved ones. There are three essential ways to reduce your risk:
1. Don’t have sex (i.e., anal, vaginal or oral)
2. Only have sex (i.e., anal, vaginal or oral) if you’re in a mutually monogamous relationship with a partner you know is not infected
3. Use a condom every time you have anal, vaginal or oral sex. (Correct and consistent use of the male latex condom is highly effective in reducing HIV transmission.)
Put yourself to the test — Knowing your HIV status is a critical step toward stopping HIV transmission, because if you know you are infected, you can take steps to protect your
partners. Also, if you are infected, the sooner you find out, the sooner you can receive life-extending treatment. In fact, CDC recommends that all adults and adolescents be tested for HIV. Because other STDs can play a role in the acquisition of HIV, knowing whether you are infected with either is critical in reducing your risk for infection.
Call 1-800-CDC-INFO or visit www.hivtest.org to find HIV and STD testing locations near you.
Start talking — Talk to everyone you know about HIV — friends and family, coworkers and neighbors, at work and at places of worship. Have ongoing and open discussions with your partners about HIV testing and risk behaviors. Talking openly about HIV can reduce the stigma that keeps too many from seeking the testing, prevention and treatment services, and support they need.
HIV doesn’t have to become part of your life. Each of us can and must be part of the solution.
Visit www.actagainstaids.org for more information about HIV and what you can do to stop HIV.
More...
HIV: Protect Yourself
Be smart about HIV. Here’s what you can do to reduce your risk of infection:
Get the facts — Arm yourself with basic information: Are you at risk? How is HIV spread? How can you protect yourself?
Take control — You have the facts; now protect yourself and your loved ones. There are three essential ways to reduce your risk:
1. Don’t have sex (i.e., anal, vaginal or oral)
2. Only have sex (i.e., anal, vaginal or oral) if you’re in a mutually monogamous relationship with a partner you know is not infected
3. Use a condom every time you have anal, vaginal or oral sex. (Correct and consistent use of the male latex condom is highly effective in reducing HIV transmission.)
Put yourself to the test — Knowing your HIV status is a critical step toward stopping HIV transmission, because if you know you are infected, you can take steps to protect your
partners. Also, if you are infected, the sooner you find out, the sooner you can receive life-extending treatment. In fact, CDC recommends that all adults and adolescents be tested for HIV. Because other STDs can play a role in the acquisition of HIV, knowing whether you are infected with either is critical in reducing your risk for infection.
Call 1-800-CDC-INFO or visit www.hivtest.org to find HIV and STD testing locations near you.
Start talking — Talk to everyone you know about HIV — friends and family, coworkers and neighbors, at work and at places of worship. Have ongoing and open discussions with your partners about HIV testing and risk behaviors. Talking openly about HIV can reduce the stigma that keeps too many from seeking the testing, prevention and treatment services, and support they need.
HIV doesn’t have to become part of your life. Each of us can and must be part of the solution.
Visit www.actagainstaids.org for more information about HIV and what you can do to stop HIV.
31
@ 22: Ken, I’d guess that’s about the same rate I see among open-minded, straight guys these days. Based on a modest sample of straight boys and ass play for the last decade, many of them can’t accommodate anything cock-sized, but are very happy with a finger and prostate play (once they get past the whole “this makes me gay” thing). Maybe I travel in very experimental circles, but based on my past sex partners, I can say “60 - 70% of [straight] men like having things in their ass, at least some time.”
33
It might be worth mentioning, Dan, that many men and women regularly take cock and other objects up the ass because it FEELS REALLY GOOD, and not because they've been brainwashed by porn or AIDs pamphlets.
I've heard from a few women who think it feels better than vaginal intercourse. This woman wrote entire memoir about her love of anal sex. And these ladies don't even have prostates.
I've heard from a few women who think it feels better than vaginal intercourse. This woman wrote entire memoir about her love of anal sex. And these ladies don't even have prostates.
34
Danny,
the CDC wants YOU to know:
There are three essential ways to reduce your risk:
1. Don’t have sex (i.e., anal, vaginal or oral)
2. Only have sex (i.e., anal, vaginal or oral) if you’re in a mutually monogamous relationship with a partner you know is not infected
3. Use a condom EVERY TIME you have anal, vaginal or ORAL sex.
did you catch that Danny?
1 abstinence
2 monogamy
3 use a condom every time
now please don't be such an ignorant prick.....
the CDC wants YOU to know:
There are three essential ways to reduce your risk:
1. Don’t have sex (i.e., anal, vaginal or oral)
2. Only have sex (i.e., anal, vaginal or oral) if you’re in a mutually monogamous relationship with a partner you know is not infected
3. Use a condom EVERY TIME you have anal, vaginal or ORAL sex.
did you catch that Danny?
1 abstinence
2 monogamy
3 use a condom every time
now please don't be such an ignorant prick.....
35
@29 Consider the behavior of hetero movie stars and professional athletes. There wealth and fame gives them access to unlimited pussy and many of them engage in the same kind of hyper sexual activity as gay men.
36
btw Dan are you going to sue Le Monde for that HIDEOUS picture they ran?
Was it photoshopped? or did they smear shit all over it?
you've got a case, dude.....
Was it photoshopped? or did they smear shit all over it?
you've got a case, dude.....
37
I thought HIV could be spread through oral sex, though - is that not accurate? Can it be transmitted via swallowing, or via facials?
38
As a gay man, straight porn doesn't do much for me so I tend to focus on other things in the videos. I've noticed that women in straight porn are often shown wearing their high heel shoes. Why? They'll be butt-ass naked but have their high heels on. Are straight men fascinated by high heels? I don't get it. This is quite a mystery to me.
39
You undermine your case when you make it personal, Alleged. It makes it look less like a crusade and more like a pathological obsession.
...which it is, of course, but I just thought you deserved to know.
...which it is, of course, but I just thought you deserved to know.
41
@38, some men are into heels, and some are into the feet that the heels call attention to. I think most don't care either way but it's a cheap, easy gimmick porn producers throw in to interest guys with relatively common fetishes.
I could do without it myself, but I mostly try to watch amateur porn anyway.
I could do without it myself, but I mostly try to watch amateur porn anyway.
42
@34: I'm pretty sure that Dan agrees with you on those last two. Either wrap your shaft every time, or sleep only with someone (or someones) who you know is (are) clean.
Dan, can you verify your support for this principle in writing so that maybe Alleged will shut up about it?
Dan, can you verify your support for this principle in writing so that maybe Alleged will shut up about it?
43
39
sorry if we take it personally when celebrities use their fame to spread deadly misinformation.
we plead guilty to having a pathological obsession with The Truth
sorry if we take it personally when celebrities use their fame to spread deadly misinformation.
we plead guilty to having a pathological obsession with The Truth
44
42
are you kidding?
Danny thought those CDC campaigns advocating condom use were bullying him into taking it in the ass.
and his idea of 'monogamy' is cheating nine times in six years of "marriage"....
are you kidding?
Danny thought those CDC campaigns advocating condom use were bullying him into taking it in the ass.
and his idea of 'monogamy' is cheating nine times in six years of "marriage"....
45
@44: Your skills in reading comprehension are on par with yours in critical and analytic reasoning. What Dan said was that AIDS awareness measures strengthened the perception that gay sex is necessarily buttsex. He explicitly stated that they were RIGHT to focus on anal sex, because it is higher-risk than oral sex or frottage as far as STD transmission goes!
Now I don't know where you get your information, but I know nothing of Dan cheating on Terry. To the best of my knowledge, he hasn't made any public statement to that effect, so how would you know if he was cheating unless...
Oh.
Alleged, humping a Dan Savage love pillow* does not count as Dan cheating on Terry with you.
*best four-word phrase of the month, IMHO
Now I don't know where you get your information, but I know nothing of Dan cheating on Terry. To the best of my knowledge, he hasn't made any public statement to that effect, so how would you know if he was cheating unless...
Oh.
Alleged, humping a Dan Savage love pillow* does not count as Dan cheating on Terry with you.
*best four-word phrase of the month, IMHO
46
@38 the heels are no different then gay porn snowing naked guys going at it with their boots on. I never understood that either.
As for anal, I think a lot more guys would like it if they relaxed and gave it a chance.
As for anal, I think a lot more guys would like it if they relaxed and gave it a chance.
47
So, who made heteros think intercourse was a necessity every time, then? Because the vast majority of them do.
48
Wow, anal sex really puts the unregistered troll in a aroused tizzy. Sounds like he's trying to convince himself more than anyone else. Relax, gay sex can be quite safe, and it's a lot of fun too!
49
@46
People wear something on their feet in professional porn because the movie sets are filthy places. It would be a huge turn-off for most viewers to see those dirty feet waving around.
People wear something on their feet in professional porn because the movie sets are filthy places. It would be a huge turn-off for most viewers to see those dirty feet waving around.
50
I like to keep my high heels on when I have sex. It makes me feel sexy and slutty. I don't watch porn, so I didn't realize it was super-prevalent, though I am not surprised. I think heels tap into archetypes of extreme femininity in both the powerful and vulnerable sense.
Just me I'm talking about here, however.
Just me I'm talking about here, however.
51
@37, Hypothetically, yes, HIV can be transmitted orally or on the face. It's just that the incidence of it happening are astronomically difficult to find. So we're talking risk factors as a defense from HIV. If you suck cock after recently having oral surgery, your risk factor sky-rockets. But if you suck cock under healthy oral condition, it's almost unheard of for someone to have had HIV transmitted to them that way. If you have an open sore on your face, yeah, your risk factor jumps proportionally. But if you don't, you're risk factor plummets. Swallowing? Well, it's not well-understood why, but risk factor is low even when someone swallows a load from an hiv+ person. It's the same with rimming.
The second thing that increases the possibility of transmission is the NUMBER OF EXPOSURES. Bar cruising every night with strangers tilts the scale in favor of transmission. But seeing your fuck buddy three times a day, 24/7/365 doesn't unless he's HIV+ and you're engaging in high risk sexual behavior.
As I remember (and It's been about a years since I read this), the odds of getting infected via oral sex is something like 1 in 50,000 exposures. With anal sex it's like 1 in 500 exposures but changes drastically if a condom is used.
So what Dan is pointing out is that the incidences of new infections has dropped dramatically because 1) condoms are being used in buttsex and 2) people are opting out of buttsex in favor of oral sex.
Then there's the little known factor that the Religious Right ignores/lies-about and it's that there's an entire sub-group of gay men who simple don't do buttsex. Period. I'm in the "practically never" sub-group as viewed over the course of my whole life and the *never* group as viewed in the last 15 years - or - when AIDS education finally matured to the point where I could be informed about what choices to make
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The second thing that increases the possibility of transmission is the NUMBER OF EXPOSURES. Bar cruising every night with strangers tilts the scale in favor of transmission. But seeing your fuck buddy three times a day, 24/7/365 doesn't unless he's HIV+ and you're engaging in high risk sexual behavior.
As I remember (and It's been about a years since I read this), the odds of getting infected via oral sex is something like 1 in 50,000 exposures. With anal sex it's like 1 in 500 exposures but changes drastically if a condom is used.
So what Dan is pointing out is that the incidences of new infections has dropped dramatically because 1) condoms are being used in buttsex and 2) people are opting out of buttsex in favor of oral sex.
Then there's the little known factor that the Religious Right ignores/lies-about and it's that there's an entire sub-group of gay men who simple don't do buttsex. Period. I'm in the "practically never" sub-group as viewed over the course of my whole life and the *never* group as viewed in the last 15 years - or - when AIDS education finally matured to the point where I could be informed about what choices to make
52
48
Actually America is weary of homosexuals giving themselves (and their innocent unsuspecting lied to significant others) AIDS then whining because we haven't given them a pill that lets them engage in unhealthy dangerous behavior with impunity.
It is a tired old song.
It doesn't really matter what word Reagan ever uttered or not or when.
It doesn't really matter what fundamentalists think or believe or say.
All that is relevant is that homosexuals keep shoving filthy germ and virus ridden things up their asses and infecting themselves then whining to the rest of the country to fix it.
The country really doesn't care what you shove up your asses and would love you to keep it your own business.
But you keep showing up at public health clinics with STDs at 80 times the rate of normal Americans and making it everyone's business.
And if you ever get Single Payer government health insurance you can expect the government to start telling you what you can shove up your asses, just like it tells smokers when and what they can puff on.
So do us all a favor;
1- quit infecting yourselves
or
2- STFU about it when you do and quit expecting everyone else to cure/pay for the infections and diseases you keep shoving up your asses.
Actually America is weary of homosexuals giving themselves (and their innocent unsuspecting lied to significant others) AIDS then whining because we haven't given them a pill that lets them engage in unhealthy dangerous behavior with impunity.
It is a tired old song.
It doesn't really matter what word Reagan ever uttered or not or when.
It doesn't really matter what fundamentalists think or believe or say.
All that is relevant is that homosexuals keep shoving filthy germ and virus ridden things up their asses and infecting themselves then whining to the rest of the country to fix it.
The country really doesn't care what you shove up your asses and would love you to keep it your own business.
But you keep showing up at public health clinics with STDs at 80 times the rate of normal Americans and making it everyone's business.
And if you ever get Single Payer government health insurance you can expect the government to start telling you what you can shove up your asses, just like it tells smokers when and what they can puff on.
So do us all a favor;
1- quit infecting yourselves
or
2- STFU about it when you do and quit expecting everyone else to cure/pay for the infections and diseases you keep shoving up your asses.
54
52 this sounds like you.
ONE hot summer’s day a Fox was strolling through an orchard till he came to a bunch of Grapes just ripening on a vine which had been trained over a lofty branch. “Just the things to quench my thirst,” quoth he. Drawing back a few paces, he took a run and a jump, and just missed the bunch. Turning round again with a One, Two, Three, he jumped up, but with no greater success. Again and again he tried after the tempting morsel, but at last had to give it up, and walked away with his nose in the air, saying: “I am sure they are sour.”
“IT IS EASY TO DESPISE WHAT YOU CANNOT GET.”
55
48
zippity-do-da!
oh look, your sunny optimism is infectious.....
"can be" is nice but "really is" is a good bit uglier.
The reality is that gay sex infects with AIDS 50-80 times as much as hetero sex.
And other STDs at similarly high rates.
Is that a lot of fun, too?
zippity-do-da!
oh look, your sunny optimism is infectious.....
"can be" is nice but "really is" is a good bit uglier.
The reality is that gay sex infects with AIDS 50-80 times as much as hetero sex.
And other STDs at similarly high rates.
Is that a lot of fun, too?
57
55,56, I have a great sex life, and have never had any sort of STD ever. Motor vehicles kill far more people than gay sex, but I don't see you going apoplectic over that. What's with your gay sex obsession?
58
@49 If the porn sets are so filthy that the actors are visibly dirty in the movie, you'd think they would mop.
59
57
we're happy you're happy, Rob.
really.
we hate to see lives wasted.
ignorance really IS death.....
we're happy you're happy, Rob.
really.
we hate to see lives wasted.
ignorance really IS death.....
60
59, "We're"? Are you royalty? You do seem like a queen. Just take it up the ass already, and stop laying awake at night with your cock hunger. Hint, Dan's not going to fuck you, and neither am I, so you'll have to settle for what you can get at the airport bathroom, like other, um, "straight" men.
61
I should know better than to engage with the unregistered guy who keeps posting, and I won't respond to the content of your flames. But I'm curious as to why you refer to yourself in the third person. Are you the Queen?
64
60
ah- we reach the crux of the matter;
if we disagree with Danny and Bob we must be closeted homosexuals.
gee.....we've never heard that one before.
ah- we reach the crux of the matter;
if we disagree with Danny and Bob we must be closeted homosexuals.
gee.....we've never heard that one before.
66
64, Yes, because all straight men secure in their heterosexuality obsess and post repeatedly on gay man's blog posts. You're here month after month, week after week, day after day, hour after hour. (I bet you cannot honestly answer why you do this.) You really came unglued when you read butt sex, but you're not gay obsessed or anything.
68
This may be off topic given the comment thread but Lots of gay men enjoy getting fucked. And by enjoy I mean really really really love it. It isn't something done out of a sense of obligation or tradition. I am one of those gay men and I don't really think too much about fucking someone else. These roles are called "top" and "bottom" and are surprisingly common.
I understand that some women enjoy being fucked vaginally. It doesn't automatically assume that being fucked makes them want to then fuck their partner. Sometimes it is nice to have a role and something you are good at and enjoy. This has been "gays sex 101" thanks for your attention
I understand that some women enjoy being fucked vaginally. It doesn't automatically assume that being fucked makes them want to then fuck their partner. Sometimes it is nice to have a role and something you are good at and enjoy. This has been "gays sex 101" thanks for your attention
69
I gotta say that this theory [that gay men don't focus on buttsex] is a stretch. All the gay men I know participate in anal pretty much all the time, and for only one reason: it feels good. Asses on men are hot, and a dick feels good in an asshole, whether giving or receiving.
Also, the data is flawed: asking guys 'did you do anal the last time you had sex' is going to give skewed results. I had sex this morning with my hand, so no, I did not have anal sex. Geez.
Also- love the way Period Troll is so frothed out today! Way to go Dan and Sloggers! BUTTSEX, BUTTSEX, BUTTSEX, BUTTSEX, AND DOUBLE BUTTSEX ON THE SIDE FOR YOU, troll!
Also, the data is flawed: asking guys 'did you do anal the last time you had sex' is going to give skewed results. I had sex this morning with my hand, so no, I did not have anal sex. Geez.
Also- love the way Period Troll is so frothed out today! Way to go Dan and Sloggers! BUTTSEX, BUTTSEX, BUTTSEX, BUTTSEX, AND DOUBLE BUTTSEX ON THE SIDE FOR YOU, troll!
70
66
so you think all heterosexuals who post on slog are closet homosexuals? deep thinking there, bob....
so you think all heterosexuals who post on slog are closet homosexuals? deep thinking there, bob....
71
70, No, only the ones who endlessly obsess on gay sex, like you. You can't stop thinking about it, can you?
72
Alleged, I see you have no comeback to #45.
@70: Only the ones who obsess over gay sex. I'm straight, so I only ever contemplate gay sex from a clinical or statistical perspective.
@70: Only the ones who obsess over gay sex. I'm straight, so I only ever contemplate gay sex from a clinical or statistical perspective.
73
Ken, I have to respectfully disagree. I don't particularly like to top. And when I do, I prefer a very experienced bottom (a power bottom, if you will), because frankly, I'm not that experienced in loosening a guy up.
I'm not that experienced as a bottom, either. It's definitely not on the menu for a first encounter (most of the times -- there have been exceptions). But that's not because I need emotional intimacy for it so much as that if I'm unfamiliar with a guy, that will make me a little more tense, and that's going to make it harder for me to either (1) relax enough to bottom, or (2) be comfortable enough to get him relaxed enough, if I'm topping, without getting all tense and stage-frighty and losing my erection.
My personal experience, at least, which may not be representative of all of us in our 40s.
I'm not that experienced as a bottom, either. It's definitely not on the menu for a first encounter (most of the times -- there have been exceptions). But that's not because I need emotional intimacy for it so much as that if I'm unfamiliar with a guy, that will make me a little more tense, and that's going to make it harder for me to either (1) relax enough to bottom, or (2) be comfortable enough to get him relaxed enough, if I'm topping, without getting all tense and stage-frighty and losing my erection.
My personal experience, at least, which may not be representative of all of us in our 40s.
74
This letter really drives home the point that orientation really isn't a matter of activities, is it? I guess I'm a "straight" guy - I don't find men very attractive and I've never had a crush on a guy. Girls, oh my yes, and I love going down on a woman.
However, I also love the buttsex! Giving and receiving. I find it much easier to find a gay guy who will give it to me, than a woman who will strap it on for me (or take it from me, for that matter).
I feel like I'm in denial when I say I'm straight and yet like a cock up the ass. But maybe not - if there are guys who consider themselves gay and don't ever like the buttsex, then what the heck.
However, I also love the buttsex! Giving and receiving. I find it much easier to find a gay guy who will give it to me, than a woman who will strap it on for me (or take it from me, for that matter).
I feel like I'm in denial when I say I'm straight and yet like a cock up the ass. But maybe not - if there are guys who consider themselves gay and don't ever like the buttsex, then what the heck.
75
@74, I'm curious, when you meet a guy for anal, do you help him get an erection by stroking or sucking him? Or are you like, "ick, I don't want to see that, I'll be over here watching the game; let me know when you have a hard cock to stick up my ass"...?
77
Dan, why didn't you throw bisexuals into your comments so that EVERYONE could be mad at you?
That said, both of my teenagers have gotten shitty sex-ed at their otherwise very excellent school. We're on the border of Bachmann country, so 30% of the parents opt out completely. But still, the curriculum focuses on the physical changes during puberty and avoiding death by avoiding sex. There was no coverage of birth control and no mention that unmarried people under 21 might occasionally have sex.
That said, both of my teenagers have gotten shitty sex-ed at their otherwise very excellent school. We're on the border of Bachmann country, so 30% of the parents opt out completely. But still, the curriculum focuses on the physical changes during puberty and avoiding death by avoiding sex. There was no coverage of birth control and no mention that unmarried people under 21 might occasionally have sex.
78
I would say about 20% of the gay men I know never do anal, in some cases, not even anal play. It's just not something they enjoy that much, just like not all het couples automatically enjoy it. I know a couple that never have any form of penetrative sex at all, but they most definitely have sex - it's sort of a form of what we called "dry-humping" back in my day, but minus clothes. Seems to work out just fine for all concerned.
Not that it's any of anyone else's business what anyone does with their junk with another consenting adult. OMIGAWD, BUTTSEX!!! The horror, the horror!!!111!!!!!!
Not that it's any of anyone else's business what anyone does with their junk with another consenting adult. OMIGAWD, BUTTSEX!!! The horror, the horror!!!111!!!!!!
79
To all the tight asses who are fear filled rather than butt filled .. try a little deep breathing .. and if if is toooooooo big ...just say no and flip him over and penetrate him. If that's a turn off leaving you limp dicked than show him what you are good at.. To go a little deeper (uh er..!) .. anal sex is a very intimate act for most people and not like swallowing a sword or licking a lolly pop ... so proceed with caution ..and care . It should not hurt .. if it does . stop him ..usually the top hasn't done his job correctly ...I mean a top has to take some responsibility if you do not opewn and let him in . If he has not relaxed you enough that you trust him to take him.. he doesn't deserve to be inside you remember lube baby lube... and come find the Pleasure button .. the prostate .. that will put all of it a new light for ya
81
@75 I pretty much do everything, including kissing. For me, it is about role/gender play, so that's the fantasy running in my head...autogynephilia...so that's where the feminine comes in. Hilariously (maybe?) I have fantasized that I am a woman having lesbian sex with a female partner on occasion too. Neither of these is frequent, and I have to be in the right mood.
82
@81 fascinating. Have you tried looking for long-term partners who can appreciate gender play, maybe among the people who identify as 'queer' rather than straight or gay?
83
@82 I had only one long term partner who appreciated it and I found her conventionally: at work. She actually initiated it with me (by playing with my ass). She would never have identified as queer in any sense - she was outwardly very repressed and represented herself as a very religious/conservative traditionalist. We cracked that nut with BDSM and she had quite the taste for the taboo and was my first experience with pegging.
In my experience I've found that the vast majority of women - including some 'queer' or 'bi' women - pretty much apply the bi-male double standard: touch one dick and you're gay, for life, Q.E.D., followed immediately by: get the hell away from me before you give me HIV or some other STD.
I've thought it would be a natural fit to find a bi woman who enjoyed strapping it on with me, but not so much in reality. I've been rejected over this a few times. There may be a few women I've known where this would not be an issue, but they were not attractive to me for other reasons (not all physical). It's a unicorn thing.
This is not a big part of my sex life. I have fantastic, fairly vanilla sex with my current partner - who expressed exactly this male/female double-standard WRT to bisexuality outright while discussing a "yesterday straight, today lesbian, tomorrow who knows?" friend of hers. I'm very masculine in my walking around identity, quite happy that way, and very happy being a dominant/masculine lover. When my sex life - even vanilla - is feeling good and fulfilled, the urge for kinky goes way down. While bi-phobic in some regards, my current partner is willing to play and explore, so it looks promising.
In my experience I've found that the vast majority of women - including some 'queer' or 'bi' women - pretty much apply the bi-male double standard: touch one dick and you're gay, for life, Q.E.D., followed immediately by: get the hell away from me before you give me HIV or some other STD.
I've thought it would be a natural fit to find a bi woman who enjoyed strapping it on with me, but not so much in reality. I've been rejected over this a few times. There may be a few women I've known where this would not be an issue, but they were not attractive to me for other reasons (not all physical). It's a unicorn thing.
This is not a big part of my sex life. I have fantastic, fairly vanilla sex with my current partner - who expressed exactly this male/female double-standard WRT to bisexuality outright while discussing a "yesterday straight, today lesbian, tomorrow who knows?" friend of hers. I'm very masculine in my walking around identity, quite happy that way, and very happy being a dominant/masculine lover. When my sex life - even vanilla - is feeling good and fulfilled, the urge for kinky goes way down. While bi-phobic in some regards, my current partner is willing to play and explore, so it looks promising.
84
Thanks for sharing... I will share in return, that in my twenties, when I felt my biological clock ticking, I would have run from a guy who admitted to being bi. I wanted someone I could trust to stick with me through the hard work of raising children together, not someone who really wanted to be with a man. I was friends with someone openly bi in college, and while I would have fooled around with him (didn't happen, despite lots of flirting), I didn't see him as marriage material. (I admit that I was operating on bad information and cliches; just trying to give my state of mind.)
But now, in my forties, with children nearing their teen years, I see bi men very differently. Now I find it hot, and would love to get my husband together with another guy. If I were on the market again, I would be very open to a bi guy. I no longer see bi men as more of STD vector than straight men, and I am more concerned that a partner be interested in hot sex than stability :-)
I don't know how old you are, but if you have had these bad experiences with women in the 20s, I would try again with women in their 40s or 50s.
But now, in my forties, with children nearing their teen years, I see bi men very differently. Now I find it hot, and would love to get my husband together with another guy. If I were on the market again, I would be very open to a bi guy. I no longer see bi men as more of STD vector than straight men, and I am more concerned that a partner be interested in hot sex than stability :-)
I don't know how old you are, but if you have had these bad experiences with women in the 20s, I would try again with women in their 40s or 50s.
85
women in their 20s, duh. (Don't mean to imply you should break up with your current partner; just wanted to raise the idea that older women, post-child-rearing, might be more open to bi guys.)
86
Well, without going into too many details, I am trying to find someone to have children with and raise a family. So long term "stability" is pretty high on the scale. My partner is 32 and having kids is definitely on the table, but the relationship is new. I have had partners who were no longer thinking in child-bearing mode (either already had them or not interested) and yes, you're right, it changes perspective a lot.
87
What I'm saying, in my long-winded fashion, is that I think you are taking the right approach. I approve of you hiding your interest in guys, for now, while you find a long-term partner and focus on raising young children together. But if the two of you go through a re-evaluation of your marriage when the children are in school, as many couples do... I hope you will feel safe enough then to open up to her about your deepest fantasies, and hear hers as well. I wish you much happiness, now and in future decades :-)
88
What is with all these buttfucking people who don't like anal sex? I'm a straight girl and it feels fucking marvelous. Are they missing a prostate or not preparing properly or something? I know the anus is no vagina, but it feels to me like all these gaymos who don't like anal sex is similar to a bunch of straight chicks who don't like vaginal sex. WTF dudes? I don't even have a prostate and it feels fucking awesome--better than vaginal sex sometimes. You have prostates! You should love it! I just don't get it!
I'm not telling anyone what to do. I'm just not sure why there is such a large contingent of males who don't like things that ought to feel even better for them than vaginal feels for chicks. If a woman doesn't want vaginal sex, we classify that as a sexual dysfunction. I'm just curious.
I'm not telling anyone what to do. I'm just not sure why there is such a large contingent of males who don't like things that ought to feel even better for them than vaginal feels for chicks. If a woman doesn't want vaginal sex, we classify that as a sexual dysfunction. I'm just curious.
90
@88: As much as I hate to sound like the "BUT IT'S UNNATURAL" crowd, I'd say that it's because the vagina is a sexual organ and the anus isn't. If you don't enjoy giving oral, that's not a dysfunction because your mouth isn't a sexual organ. If you don't enjoy receiving anal, that's not a dysfunction because your anus isn't a sexual organ. Sexual dysfunction is when the genitals, which have no purpose other than to fuck (discounting their peripheral role in urination) can't have any fun fucking.
91
@87 - Thanks for the support and good wishes! I'm definitely with 88 on the whole "it just feels good" thing and when I said my current partner is open-minded, I mean that she might be into doing things to stimulate me there. I'm in favor of Dan's general advice that all kink cards should be on the table before making a long term commitment, so I've been working on letting her know that I like having my ass played with. Good luck to you with getting your husband to indulge you!
92
90
What do you call someone who perverts the use of a bodily part,
who deviates from what is biologically intended?
What do you call that?
What do you call someone who perverts the use of a bodily part,
who deviates from what is biologically intended?
What do you call that?
93
@92: Well, when I Googled it, I got a link to a glossary of Freudian terms. Why? Why do you care whether or not people kiss?
What do you call someone who ascribes intent to biology? What do you call that?
I call that person a numbskull, a twit, and a Creationist, if you'll pardon my redundancy.
What do you call someone who ascribes intent to biology? What do you call that?
I call that person a numbskull, a twit, and a Creationist, if you'll pardon my redundancy.
94
intent. and biology....
use your rectum to shit and everything is good.
use it as a sex organ and biology bites you in the ass, so to speak.
How high can the AIDS rate among ass fuckers go?
20% is really just the floor.
twits?
use your rectum to shit and everything is good.
use it as a sex organ and biology bites you in the ass, so to speak.
How high can the AIDS rate among ass fuckers go?
20% is really just the floor.
twits?
95
@94: Please provide a source for your assertion that people engaging in anal sex have at least a 20% rate of AIDS.
You don't have one.
You don't have one.
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