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News & ArtsTuesday, October 25, 2011
Hetero Every Child Deserves a Mother and a Father
Posted by Dan Savage on Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 8:45 AM
Yesterday a bigot made this statement:
“It is not a bigoted statement to say that children need a mother and a father."
Also yesterday:
Mark Leavitt, 37, was arrested last week for investigation of two counts of felony child abuse, three counts of reckless child endangerment, domestic violence and three counts of domestic violence in the presence of children. Thursday night, Sandy police were called to a report of domestic violence at 1065 E. and Quarry View Way. They arrived to find the mother lying semi-conscious and semi-alert on the garage floor, according to a Salt Lake County Jail report and police. While investigating that case, officers noticed twin 6-year-old boys each had one or both of their hands severely burned, said Sandy Police Sgt. John Arnold. One of the boys also had blood on his face, mouth, nose, legs and chest as if he had been punched in the nose, he said.... Paramedics who responded to the scene told police one boy "could lose fingers" if he did not receive immediate treatment.
Children need parents. They need loving, devoted, fit, capable parents who don't regard third degree burns or a punch in the face as appropriate forms of discipline. Those parents can be straight or they can be gay. And only a bigot would argue that children who don't have both a mother and a father in the home—children who have two mothers or two fathers or are being raised by single parents—are being abused. Child abuse doesn't look like this. It looks like this.
1
What kind of fantasy world do those people live in? There are children in desperate need of loving homes because their mother and father cannot or will not give them one. Since time began for humans, children have needed loving homes, period. Think of all the homes with one parent. Can we really say they are not enough for a child? This is not a perfect world and people who say it must be perfect have an agenda. And it is clear the bigots have an agenda when they give us this line about a child needing a father and mother. It simply is not true.
2
What? It's not bigoted or offensive to say that your child is in an inherently flawed environment and will never grow up to be a whole person. How is that bigoted?
3
As a child of a single father, I am constantly offended by bigots like that who insinuate that my father was inept at raising me. People like that can go fuck a fence-post.
5
@4 - Sorry, I feel that the tag cheapens the great art of sarcasm (and taxes my fingers to type). I did not mean to actually insult you or your family. The fence-post and I are just good friends.
6
I think that all else being equal an opposite sex couple might do a better job raising a child than a same sex couple. On the other hand if a child's mother is a depraved crack whore and that child's father is nowhere to be found and a same sex couple is willing to give that child a stable loving home then gay adoption is probably a good thing.
7
Ken @6, every reputable study available shows that gay parents do an equal or better job of raising children than hetero parents. This is established fact now, so you may want to adjust your thinking.
8
Btw, guy on the right in Dan's linked video, Ask a Gay Family, is smoking hot. Going back to watch the rest now! *fans self*
9
@6 why on earth would you believe that? I find the whole idea that gender has anything to do with parenting absolutely ridiculous. Women do indeed undergo chemical changes when they biologically become parents (as I suspect men do too, but I haven't seen those studies) - however, these aren't huge changes, and there's little proof that they make a big difference in how a child is raised. And it should also be noted that these are biological changes that quite possibly evolved to increase the parenting instincts of people who weren't necessarily looking to be parents. Gay parents make a conscious choice to become parents - there's no "oopsie" involved.
Moreover, my cousin - who could be described as hypermasculine - is at least as nurturing as his wife with his twin sons, as is his buddy who's an 6-foot-5 MMA fighter and the father of two young children. Once you stop defining one's masculinity or femininity as strictly as previous generations have done, parents are more willing to shoulder the emotional and disciplinary responsibilities that were previously assigned to the opposite gender.
Moreover, my cousin - who could be described as hypermasculine - is at least as nurturing as his wife with his twin sons, as is his buddy who's an 6-foot-5 MMA fighter and the father of two young children. Once you stop defining one's masculinity or femininity as strictly as previous generations have done, parents are more willing to shoulder the emotional and disciplinary responsibilities that were previously assigned to the opposite gender.
10
People who plan to become parents tend to make better parents than people who don't. Two good parents are better than one good parent which is better than any number of crappy parents.
Stable couples who want kids should be able to adopt, regardless of what's in their underwear. Genital arrangement is completely irrelevant to parenting ability.
Stable couples who want kids should be able to adopt, regardless of what's in their underwear. Genital arrangement is completely irrelevant to parenting ability.
12
Now that's an argument. Evidence and analysis (that's the history teacher in me speaking). Much better than the simple evidence you normally lay out in this segment. Well put.
14
@6, 13 - All things being equal, there's no difference. And guess what? All things aren't equal. As @9 and 10 point out, there aren't a lot of accidental pregnancies among gay couples, and that makes a far greater difference to the wellbeing of a child than the chromosomal makeup of the people raising the child.
15
@13 - Also, what are you doing in here? There's a vaccination thread somewhere going untrolled as we speak.
16
Now, if you want to talk about what's truly harmful to children of gay couples you have to look no further than the bigots that claim that every child needs a mother and a father. Folks like Rev. Jason McGuire want to prevent the children of gay couples from getting legal protections afforded to children of opposite sex parents. Despite the determination of people like Rev. Jason McGuire to deny the children of gay couples the legal rights and protections, gay families fare just as well any other family. Often better, because gay people have to decide to have children, it doesn't happen by accident.
17
Bomb dropping in 5, 4, 3, 2...... I haven't seen the picture but I'm pretty sure I served a mormon mission with that guy back in the 90's. Ouch.
18
I'm so sick of the haters and their "children need a mother and a father" nonsense. It's pretty fucking clear that children don't need a mother and a father. Plenty of happy, well-adjusted kids are raised by same-sex couples or by single parents, so any notion of "need" is empirically bullshit.
A more defensible hater position is, perhaps, that children would be better off with a mother and a father. Studies like this one show that's probably wrong as well, but let's assume otherwise. So what? Children are better off with rich parents than poor parents. Does that mean poor people should be prevented from having kids? Children are better off with college-educated parents than parents who never went to college. Should people without degrees be sterilized, or at least barred from adopting?
There is simply no reason to use a theoretical, never quantified benefit to having parents of both sexes to leap to a conclusion that same-sex couples shouldn't adopt. Unless, of course, you're just a bigot casting around for thin rationales to support your bigotry.
A more defensible hater position is, perhaps, that children would be better off with a mother and a father. Studies like this one show that's probably wrong as well, but let's assume otherwise. So what? Children are better off with rich parents than poor parents. Does that mean poor people should be prevented from having kids? Children are better off with college-educated parents than parents who never went to college. Should people without degrees be sterilized, or at least barred from adopting?
There is simply no reason to use a theoretical, never quantified benefit to having parents of both sexes to leap to a conclusion that same-sex couples shouldn't adopt. Unless, of course, you're just a bigot casting around for thin rationales to support your bigotry.
19
Dan, thanks for the video. Loved how their daughter got all funny when Daniel showed his "second belly button".
21
Thanks Dan for sharing our video we are big fans here at Gay Family Values and are very proud of our Ask A Gay Family videos.
22
Hey, Gay Family Values guys, I really liked your video, but I thought you could put it even more strongly. Biological parents aren't magically better. Yes, in a perfect world, every kid would get to stay with their original attachment figure(s). But that perfect world would still include plenty of sperm-donors, egg-donors, and non-exploited surrogates helping out infertile hetero families, lesbian families, gay male families, and single parents who have willingly chosen to parent solo.
Oh, and @10? There's data showing that two parents are not any better than one, provided that one is financially and emotionally prepared to have a kid.
Oh, and @10? There's data showing that two parents are not any better than one, provided that one is financially and emotionally prepared to have a kid.
23
@18: say it, sister!
But also, will someone please, please PLEASE starting asking this question every time someone says "Children need a mother and a father.": "Great. So precisely HOW does denying gay people equal rights increase the number of children growing up in household with both a mother and a father."
But also, will someone please, please PLEASE starting asking this question every time someone says "Children need a mother and a father.": "Great. So precisely HOW does denying gay people equal rights increase the number of children growing up in household with both a mother and a father."
24
I'm aware of the studies showing children raised by same sex couples turn out the same or better than average. But gay parents aren't comparable to average parents. As many people have said, homos don't become parents by accident. Also adoption and artificial insemination are both fairly expensive, so same sex couples have to be reasonably well fixed financially in order to become parents. I think we can all agree that parents who want kids and have enough money to support them are more likely to raise happy well adjusted children. What I'm suggesting is that well financed and loving hetero couples might be marginally better parents than similar gay couples.
26
(I should point out that, as someone who was reared by lesbians, children pretty much have no interest in nor idea of what is between their parents' legs. I certainly didn't.)
27
The only way that having a father and a mother (rather than just two of one) is that sometimes guys can use some guy talk and girls can use some girl talk. However, this kind of guy or girl talk is pretty much separate from the actual task of nurturing that is required of parents, and so other relatives can fill this need just as well. My lesbian cousin and her partner have two sons, and they don't seem to lack for male interaction.
28
@24/25: Indeed. Why are het couples somehow better?
If anything, I bet same-sex couples are marginally better, as they are more likely to raise tolerant and accepting children. Probably not a lot of homophobes or Republicans coming out of households headed by same-sex couples.
If anything, I bet same-sex couples are marginally better, as they are more likely to raise tolerant and accepting children. Probably not a lot of homophobes or Republicans coming out of households headed by same-sex couples.
29
@27- I had heterosexual parents who were together until I was 16. I don't believe I ever had "guy talk" with my dad. We did watch football together regularly, but my mom watched too.
30
@25, 28 - Children of opposite marriages have the advantage of never having to hear Maggie Gallagher et al blathering on about how deficient and horrible their lives are, for whatever that's worth.
31
24, again your assumptions are not backed by facts. Do you also think a single race couple make better parents than a biracial couple?
32
@24 AFAIK the studies comparing gay parents to straight ones compared adoptive gay parents to adoptive straight parents, so the (lack of) difference between straight and gay parents was not due to being adoptive parents rather than biological parents.
33
@22 Margaret, I would be very interested in seeing data that say two well-adjusted, prepared parents are no better than similar sole parents. It seems counter-intuitive for logistical reasons, but I'd hate to rely on intuition when there are data to be had. Thanks in advance :-)
(I was a surprise baby raised by a single mom, I do not doubt that single parents can be excellent.)
(I was a surprise baby raised by a single mom, I do not doubt that single parents can be excellent.)
34
Kaliann @33, I'm not going to be able to lay my hands on a study easily. Here's what I do know:
- There are studies showing that kids of single mothers do worse on a variety of measures. But most of those are young, poor, uneducated, "single mothers by oops." When you control for education, income, family support, reproductive decision-making, etc., those differences vanish.
- The single-mother-by-choice demographic is older-than-average, financially stable, professional women. The average single-mother-by-choice earns more than the average man.
- Single-parent families do better by some measures. For example, evenings and mealtimes are less stressful, more relaxed, and have warmer, more positive family interactions. It appears that when you throw a second adult into the picture, expectations go up for how dinnertime etc. is "supposed" to work, with resulting stress.
- Then there's just the plausibility argument. With the ability to hire plenty of high-quality childcare, and with plenty of supportive family and friends in the picture, there's no plausible reason why a single parent would do a worse job raising their kids than two parents.
- There are studies showing that kids of single mothers do worse on a variety of measures. But most of those are young, poor, uneducated, "single mothers by oops." When you control for education, income, family support, reproductive decision-making, etc., those differences vanish.
- The single-mother-by-choice demographic is older-than-average, financially stable, professional women. The average single-mother-by-choice earns more than the average man.
- Single-parent families do better by some measures. For example, evenings and mealtimes are less stressful, more relaxed, and have warmer, more positive family interactions. It appears that when you throw a second adult into the picture, expectations go up for how dinnertime etc. is "supposed" to work, with resulting stress.
- Then there's just the plausibility argument. With the ability to hire plenty of high-quality childcare, and with plenty of supportive family and friends in the picture, there's no plausible reason why a single parent would do a worse job raising their kids than two parents.
35
11
alas the studies Bob cites do not say what he claims.
they compare divorced hetero single moms to lesbians.
and claim that lesbian homes are better because lesbian moms share chores more evenly.
that's funny.
alas the studies Bob cites do not say what he claims.
they compare divorced hetero single moms to lesbians.
and claim that lesbian homes are better because lesbian moms share chores more evenly.
that's funny.
36
wow the Homosexual Agenda is WINNING!
Faggots can now boldy assert that it is BIGOTRY to recognize that stable two parent mom-dad families are good for kids.
Sweet Gommorah, We Have Arrived!!
(btw. 69% of Americans believe the nation is going straight to Hell. not a coincidence....)
Faggots can now boldy assert that it is BIGOTRY to recognize that stable two parent mom-dad families are good for kids.
Sweet Gommorah, We Have Arrived!!
(btw. 69% of Americans believe the nation is going straight to Hell. not a coincidence....)
37
@36 What's bigotry is believing that same sex couples make bad parents even though all available evidence shows the opposite.
38
I would agree that every child needs a mother and a father if, say, being raised by a lesbian couple meant never ever meeting a man or being raised by a single father meant not associating with any women. I don't know about you all, but I have a father, male cousins, uncles, and male friends, coworkers, neighbors, whatever. If I had a baby and my husband was out of the picture for some reason, I still wouldn't be the only adult in the baby's life.
40
That family in the video is ADORABLE!
Just want to say that a dad really CAN fill in a lot of the traditional "woman" role. My mother had grown up with a lot of weirdness about the body (she was raised in Christian Science, a cult that doesn't believe that the physical world is real and lets children suffer rather than take them to get medical care). She had a lot of anxiety and flashbacks to abuse in her childhood, and had some mental illness. Though she loved me very much, she was not very helpful with birds & bees discussions. My dad, on the other hand, was very matter-of-fact and thoughtful and easy to talk to. So most of my questions about boys and sex and dating went to him, and he handled it all like a champ. If my questions made him nervous or weirded out, I never knew.
I grew up to be pretty confident and happy. I like my body just fine, and I have dated nice men who treat me well (mostly because I don't put up with jerks for very long). So, I think Dad did a great job at handling that "Mom" task for me.
Just want to say that a dad really CAN fill in a lot of the traditional "woman" role. My mother had grown up with a lot of weirdness about the body (she was raised in Christian Science, a cult that doesn't believe that the physical world is real and lets children suffer rather than take them to get medical care). She had a lot of anxiety and flashbacks to abuse in her childhood, and had some mental illness. Though she loved me very much, she was not very helpful with birds & bees discussions. My dad, on the other hand, was very matter-of-fact and thoughtful and easy to talk to. So most of my questions about boys and sex and dating went to him, and he handled it all like a champ. If my questions made him nervous or weirded out, I never knew.
I grew up to be pretty confident and happy. I like my body just fine, and I have dated nice men who treat me well (mostly because I don't put up with jerks for very long). So, I think Dad did a great job at handling that "Mom" task for me.
41
@38 Obviously, being raised by a same sex couple doesn't mean growing up in a gender segregated bubble. Still, I think growing up with two moms or two dads has to effect a child's development. Maybe someday Dan and DJ will coauthor a book on the subject.
42
Generalizing about parenthood based on the sex of the parents, is not backed by any research. And if such research existed, you can bet your last Bible that it would be posted on every silly anti-gay page out there, and cited by every state legislature who wants to stop gay parenting. They would LOVE it if science could back the claim. So Ken, ya got nothin'.
You can still try to create an argument around "all things being equal" or "gays have to get children differently" but it doesn't hold up. But, you have to recognize that if you do that, you are making it up and you are wrong.
You can still try to create an argument around "all things being equal" or "gays have to get children differently" but it doesn't hold up. But, you have to recognize that if you do that, you are making it up and you are wrong.
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