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News & ArtsTuesday, October 18, 2011
Health / 2012 / News Proud To Be an American!
Posted by Dan Savage on Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 5:54 AM
In any other western industrialized nation, this man would get the surgery he needs. Here in the USA—USA! USA! USA!—he's shit out of luck. Perhaps someone at tonight's GOP debate will ask the assembled presidential dopefuls about the Las Vegas man with the 100 pound scrotum. A health care savings account isn't going to help and, thanks to his medical condition, he's unemployable and uninsurable. So what's he supposed to do? Oh, right: don't get sick, and if you do get sick, die quickly.
2
Um ... doesn't cost a million bucks to get the testicles removed ... even 100 pounds ... I don't think they charge by the pound. Even if it did, fuck him, I can't get the surgery I need because doctors won't do it, why should he get his? Same impact on quality of life.
3
@2 I hope your child never faces the same situation. But what idiot would have a child with somebody as mean spirited as you are?
4
@2 - The cost is surgery that will, hopefully, save his testicles. And with your "I can't get mine so fuck you" attitude, I have to wonder... you vote Republican, right?
6
I'm not sure this guy would get the $1 million operation in a country that had socialized medicine. Health services make decisions about what they will and will not pay for. An experimental surgery that expensive might not be covered.
7
@5 - are you seriously asking why somebody would prefer corrective surgery to castration? Why do we bother with any medical advances in that case? If you can chop it off on the cheap, chop it off. And fuck these fancy so-called "doctors". It's much cheaper to use a barber/dentist.
Or, the richest country in the world could ensure that all of its citizens had health care so we weren't having this shitty, race-to-the-bottom conversation.
Or, the richest country in the world could ensure that all of its citizens had health care so we weren't having this shitty, race-to-the-bottom conversation.
8
@6 - In a country that had socialized medicine, the problem would have been corrected long before it became such a... ah... large problem.
9
Reminder that if you engage a troll like raindrop/KittenKoder, you are feeding it and allowing it to live.
10
@7 Aaah ... so quality of life is important? Really? Tell that to the doctors next time you see them. Seriously, ask for something just to improve your quality of life, any surgery. They'll tell you no ... and milk you for it, using you as an experiment and pin cushion to get all the money they can, then when you're milked out they stop seeing you. Who's to blame for that?
12
Oh my god, that poor man. And KittenKoder, I would say that about ANYONE who needs a surgery and can't get it. Including you. It should not be a "privilege" to see a doctor and get medical attention. It should be a right. But the attitude of "I can't have it, so fuck everyone else" is the attitude that will fuck over EVERYONE.
13
"I can't get the surgery I need because doctors won't do it, why should he get his?"
So is the problem your doctors can't fix a missing brain or heart? LOL.
So is the problem your doctors can't fix a missing brain or heart? LOL.
14
Two posts in one day on how much Dan Savage hates America.
Makes me wonder if the aptly named Savage realizes that there are places to which he could emigrate. Anytime. The sooner the better. Now would be good.
Still here, Savage?
Still?
Still?
Damn. I guess polluting this country with his evangelical sexual depravity, idiotic far left fringe beliefs and hatred of this country is more important than finding someplace he'd be more happy.
Makes me wonder if the aptly named Savage realizes that there are places to which he could emigrate. Anytime. The sooner the better. Now would be good.
Still here, Savage?
Still?
Still?
Damn. I guess polluting this country with his evangelical sexual depravity, idiotic far left fringe beliefs and hatred of this country is more important than finding someplace he'd be more happy.
15
I'd like to volunteer to perform KittenKoder's surgery. I'm not a doctor of any kind, but I just like to be helpful, and taking a knife to KittenKoder is clearly what's needed to do the most good. Your surgery will be gratis.
16
This, of course, highlights to me the great nonsense about "freedom" meaning no socialized healthcare. Having universal health care gives people far greater freedom: You can lose your job and not be afraid. You can also quit your job and not be afraid of health care costs. You're free to start your own business and not worry about getting group insurance. You're free to get sick, basically, without worrying that you'll never get health care again or go bankrupt. 80% of personal bankruptcy in the US is because of medical expenses. The percentage in Canada/Scandinavia/Europe? 0.
And to #6: You're wrong. The idea that socialized systems have some sort of death panels/committees that decide what you can and cannot have is nonsense. This guy would get taken care of, hands down. It might not happen as quickly as someone with a super cadillac plan, but a hell of a lot quicker than your average wage jockey in the US. And he wouldn't have the fear that he'd get kicked off healthcare afterward, either.
And to #6: You're wrong. The idea that socialized systems have some sort of death panels/committees that decide what you can and cannot have is nonsense. This guy would get taken care of, hands down. It might not happen as quickly as someone with a super cadillac plan, but a hell of a lot quicker than your average wage jockey in the US. And he wouldn't have the fear that he'd get kicked off healthcare afterward, either.
17
@14: Whatever. Criticizing the status quo and suggesting that things could be different/better isn't "hating America." Half the reason the country is in the mess it is is because Republicans were so good at demonizing anyone who disagreed with them (and their tax cuts, screwing the poor, useless wars) as "hating America/Freedom/Apple pie."
The idea that criticism=lack of patriotism (at best) or treason (at worst) is something usually reserved for places like China and North Korea.
The idea that criticism=lack of patriotism (at best) or treason (at worst) is something usually reserved for places like China and North Korea.
18
Ahem.
I'm upper, upper class high society
God's gift to ballroom notoriety
And I always fill my ballroom The event is never small
the social papers say I've got the biggest balls of all
CHORUS
I've got big balls I've got big balls
And they're such big balls fancy big balls
And he's got big balls, And she's got big balls,
But we've got the biggest balls of them all!
And my balls are always bouncing
My ballroom always full
And everybody comes and comes again
If your name is on the guest list No one can take you higher Everybody says I've got great balls of fire!
CHORUS
Some balls are held for charity
And some for fancy dress
But when they're held for pleasure,
They're the balls that I like best.
And my balls are always bouncing,
To the left and to the right.
It's my belief that my big balls should be held every night.
CHORUS
I'm upper, upper class high society
God's gift to ballroom notoriety
And I always fill my ballroom The event is never small
the social papers say I've got the biggest balls of all
CHORUS
I've got big balls I've got big balls
And they're such big balls fancy big balls
And he's got big balls, And she's got big balls,
But we've got the biggest balls of them all!
And my balls are always bouncing
My ballroom always full
And everybody comes and comes again
If your name is on the guest list No one can take you higher Everybody says I've got great balls of fire!
CHORUS
Some balls are held for charity
And some for fancy dress
But when they're held for pleasure,
They're the balls that I like best.
And my balls are always bouncing,
To the left and to the right.
It's my belief that my big balls should be held every night.
CHORUS
19
@10 You say "Seriously, ask for something just to improve your quality of life, any surgery. They'll tell you no". All surgery is done to improve the quality of your life. Everything from my uncle's heart surgery to stop the murmur and allow him to walk for more than 15min without having to sit down from exhaustion to my friend's surgery to replace their failed kidney which got them off dialysis to Joan Rivers 5th facelift which presumably made her like herself more.
Are we going to say that people can't get surgery unless they're about to die without it? I'm curious what surgery you want that doctors refuse to do.
Are we going to say that people can't get surgery unless they're about to die without it? I'm curious what surgery you want that doctors refuse to do.
20
14, Please point out where Dan says he hates America, or in your mind is saying the country isn't perfect the same as hating America? Was pointing out that slavery was wrong the same as hating America. When women said the system was flawed when they couldn't vote the same hating America? Did the Lovings, who won the right to their interracial marriage, hate America when they criticized the laws against miscegenation?
23
@14: I think the point is to fix America.
Conservatives believe that, due to American exceptionalism, we can do no wrong. Liberals believe that, due to American exceptionalism, we must hold ourselves to a higher standard and actively right injustice in our nation.
But apparently if we even ACKNOWLEDGE that our country, as it is, isn't perfect, we're just expressing our deep and abiding hatred for the USA and our desire to make Uncle Sam weep tricolored tears.
Conservatives believe that, due to American exceptionalism, we can do no wrong. Liberals believe that, due to American exceptionalism, we must hold ourselves to a higher standard and actively right injustice in our nation.
But apparently if we even ACKNOWLEDGE that our country, as it is, isn't perfect, we're just expressing our deep and abiding hatred for the USA and our desire to make Uncle Sam weep tricolored tears.
24
@16 If countries with countries with socialized medicine don't ration healthcare then why does the BBC website include so many articles about how the UK's National Health Service decides what it will or will not pay for? Lay off the medicinal marijuana and use the Google to enlighten yourself, dude.
26
@Rob in Baltimore, I really think you won the thread with your first comment, that's some fine, high grade truthiness right there.
27
Ken @24, you are correct that the British NHS does ration healthcare, but so do we. The difference is that we ration by who can afford care. They ration by allocating resources to maximize benefit. No system is perfect, but ours is a joke.
venomlash @23, spot on as usual.
venomlash @23, spot on as usual.
28
Aside from sympathizing with the guy...
This is absurd.
Has anyone ever heard of a ONE MILLION DOLLAR SURGERY for ANYTHING? I found this in the comments of that article
QUOTE: As a surgeon who specializes in that body part, I can say unequivocally that $1 million figure is fallacious. Something's fishy. While lymphedema can make a surgery very difficult and his case is special, no amount of surgeon, hospital and ancillary care fees would initially sum to that absurd amount. UNQUOTE.
This is absurd.
Has anyone ever heard of a ONE MILLION DOLLAR SURGERY for ANYTHING? I found this in the comments of that article
QUOTE: As a surgeon who specializes in that body part, I can say unequivocally that $1 million figure is fallacious. Something's fishy. While lymphedema can make a surgery very difficult and his case is special, no amount of surgeon, hospital and ancillary care fees would initially sum to that absurd amount. UNQUOTE.
29
28, Chances are, many (dozens of) surgeries would be needed to correct the problem described, not just one. Then there would be all the post op care, follow up visits etc. It could easily add up to more than a million dollars.
30
@27 I agree that it is a disgrace that a country as wealthy as the US allows people to die from lack of routine medical procedures. All I'm saying is that this guy might find himself in the same predicament in a country with a more equitable healthcare system.
31
It is weird to me that in the U.S., we tie health insurance to employment. The times in our lives when we are most in need of health insurance are often also the times when we lose our jobs (and can't afford COBRA or private insurance), and/or can't get a new job that would have insurance.
If I were to lose my job today, my COBRA costs would be almost half of my unemployment check -- and private insurance would be even more. Fortunately, I live in San Francisco. When I lost my job and insurance in early 2009 after the economy tanked, I was eligible for Healthy SF, which covers basic medical costs and prescriptions. Cost me $50 a month, but still a lot cheaper than private insurance, and it dropped my $2,400 bill for a seven-hour hospitalization down to $40.
If I were to lose my job today, my COBRA costs would be almost half of my unemployment check -- and private insurance would be even more. Fortunately, I live in San Francisco. When I lost my job and insurance in early 2009 after the economy tanked, I was eligible for Healthy SF, which covers basic medical costs and prescriptions. Cost me $50 a month, but still a lot cheaper than private insurance, and it dropped my $2,400 bill for a seven-hour hospitalization down to $40.
32
@14 Seattleblues, I was going to ask you to take back some of your previous lies before you started spouting new ones, but then I realized you're just repeating the same tired bullshit.
You claim to have a wife and children, but that couldn't possibly be true. You'd have to be an adult.
You claim to have a wife and children, but that couldn't possibly be true. You'd have to be an adult.
34
@30 is the most pathetic conservative defense of our healthcare system i've ever read. at least kittenkoder has the guts to just come out & say they hate the poor & are happy to watch them suffer & die. you make up the absolute scummiest dodges & feints.
35
@23
Not exactly.
The highest patriotism may consist of criticism, where genuine love of the nation motivates it.
It may consist of sacrifice of life or wealth when the situation merits it.
But when you hate how our laws work, how our family structure works, how our economy works, how our health care system works, how our center right political majority drives the nation I have to wonder what exactly he loves about the country.
On the far right some conservatives dream of a nation that never was and try to 'return' to that unrealistic and unworkable dream. And some on the far, far left like Savage err in the opposite direction. In both cases what they hate about this country far outweighs the little they like about it.
Not exactly.
The highest patriotism may consist of criticism, where genuine love of the nation motivates it.
It may consist of sacrifice of life or wealth when the situation merits it.
But when you hate how our laws work, how our family structure works, how our economy works, how our health care system works, how our center right political majority drives the nation I have to wonder what exactly he loves about the country.
On the far right some conservatives dream of a nation that never was and try to 'return' to that unrealistic and unworkable dream. And some on the far, far left like Savage err in the opposite direction. In both cases what they hate about this country far outweighs the little they like about it.
36
I'm off to the woods to enjoy a wonderful fall day with my dogs, but will leave you with this-
The link Savage uses is perfect. Himself utterly incapable of accurate, honest or contextual treatment of any fact (when he bothers with facts at all) he cites a failed Senator with the same failing. The study authors objected to Graysons misuse of their work in his pontificating and wrote that the study in no way supported his claims of 45,000 deaths per annum due to lack of health care. But hey, why bother with the truth when you're a lying partisan hack, amiright?
The link Savage uses is perfect. Himself utterly incapable of accurate, honest or contextual treatment of any fact (when he bothers with facts at all) he cites a failed Senator with the same failing. The study authors objected to Graysons misuse of their work in his pontificating and wrote that the study in no way supported his claims of 45,000 deaths per annum due to lack of health care. But hey, why bother with the truth when you're a lying partisan hack, amiright?
37
This is absolutely not true. I think you misunderstand the term "socialized" in this context. "Socialized medicine" doesn't mean you can get any procedure you want or need whenever you want it. Most socialized systems I've looked into use the same formulas of costs vs. benefits as private insurance companies use here.
And if Medicaid won't cover that procedure, I doubt private insurance would either. Do you think Medicaid just denies benefits haphazardly?
You're wrong. The idea that socialized systems have some sort of death panels/committees that decide what you can and cannot have is nonsense.
This is absolutely not true. I think you misunderstand the term "socialized" in this context. "Socialized medicine" doesn't mean you can get any procedure you want or need whenever you want it. Most socialized systems I've looked into use the same formulas of costs vs. benefits as private insurance companies use here.
And if Medicaid won't cover that procedure, I doubt private insurance would either. Do you think Medicaid just denies benefits haphazardly?
38
@36 So typical. You're running away again because you can't really defend what you're saying. I would ask you to provide some proof that the people you're denouncing hate all the things you claim they hate, but that would require you to cite facts, which you're consistently unable to do because your arguments are all based on what you'd like to be true rather than what can actually be verified.
Enjoy your fantasy world. I take some small consolation in the hope that you don't really have the family or pets you claim to have because, angry, deluded bigot that you are, you must be unable to hold down a job and you must make everyone around you miserable.
Enjoy your fantasy world. I take some small consolation in the hope that you don't really have the family or pets you claim to have because, angry, deluded bigot that you are, you must be unable to hold down a job and you must make everyone around you miserable.
39
@25,
Too bad that article doesn't talk about actual procedure coverage. It does mention that the Netherlands has the most efficient medical system though, which largely entails the mandatory purchase of private insurance.
Too bad that article doesn't talk about actual procedure coverage. It does mention that the Netherlands has the most efficient medical system though, which largely entails the mandatory purchase of private insurance.
41
I'm happy to agree that our system is fucked up, but this is just about the worst example in existence. I mean seriously:
Universal health care wouldn't pay for this.
Even if Nevada's Medicaid program would allow him to go out-of-state for surgery, Warren said UCLA doctors informed him that they doubted that would work.
Universal health care wouldn't pay for this.
42
The whole story sounds strange. It could well be the write up and/or details left out (exactly how detailed would YOU like to be about a testicular growth of some kind), but I have trouble with the $1 mill. amount given.
Castration doesn't actually refer solely and only to removal of testes. It can involve more removal than that. (Just for the ppl wondering why he's worried about his penis when it's "just" castration.) Though frankly if it came down to my bits & my life, I'd take the surgery and silicone (no one blinks at this sort of decision women make all the time).
It also sounds like he had it looked at after the initial symptoms ("has been on antibiotics and medications") so this isn't a case of having been unable to get any care of it at all (therefore allowing it to reach these proportions).
Lots wrong with our health care system -- just about nothing right with it. But this one's weird. I can't see why state Medicaid wouldn't cover it (surely they are not trying to claim this is something "cosmetic") and if so, I'd be more in favor of putting pressure on them to cover it -- through this sort of public exposure. But he's not asking for that.
He's setting up an account for donations on the strength of this article? Hmmmm.... Don't think I'll be donating on this one. Was there even any request for comment from the doctors involved by this journalist?
Castration doesn't actually refer solely and only to removal of testes. It can involve more removal than that. (Just for the ppl wondering why he's worried about his penis when it's "just" castration.) Though frankly if it came down to my bits & my life, I'd take the surgery and silicone (no one blinks at this sort of decision women make all the time).
It also sounds like he had it looked at after the initial symptoms ("has been on antibiotics and medications") so this isn't a case of having been unable to get any care of it at all (therefore allowing it to reach these proportions).
Lots wrong with our health care system -- just about nothing right with it. But this one's weird. I can't see why state Medicaid wouldn't cover it (surely they are not trying to claim this is something "cosmetic") and if so, I'd be more in favor of putting pressure on them to cover it -- through this sort of public exposure. But he's not asking for that.
He's setting up an account for donations on the strength of this article? Hmmmm.... Don't think I'll be donating on this one. Was there even any request for comment from the doctors involved by this journalist?
43
@29. I think you are more correct than the Gawker article is. The only indication of the cost is a single hyphenated word in quotation marks: "seven-figure".
That could mean UCLA said the initial surgery plus extensive follow-up procedures could eventually add up to a "seven-figure" amount. But then, Gawker has a bit of a reputation for sensationalizing their content. What UCLA said we will probably never know but here we are being asked to believe what Gawker *did* say and that, I think, is an absurdity bordering on irresponsibility. This guy is in awful circumstances and Gawker just want to get clicks and page views for their web site so their advertisers will reward them. It's a sickness in and of itself to exploit this man's misery.
That could mean UCLA said the initial surgery plus extensive follow-up procedures could eventually add up to a "seven-figure" amount. But then, Gawker has a bit of a reputation for sensationalizing their content. What UCLA said we will probably never know but here we are being asked to believe what Gawker *did* say and that, I think, is an absurdity bordering on irresponsibility. This guy is in awful circumstances and Gawker just want to get clicks and page views for their web site so their advertisers will reward them. It's a sickness in and of itself to exploit this man's misery.
44
@42,
According to the original article, the seven-figure treatment he wants is a reconstruction of his penis using skin grafts, which probably won't work. His penis is gone. The only thing keeping him in pain and on disability is his refusal to accept it.
According to the original article, the seven-figure treatment he wants is a reconstruction of his penis using skin grafts, which probably won't work. His penis is gone. The only thing keeping him in pain and on disability is his refusal to accept it.
45
@35- "But when you hate how our laws work, how our family structure works, how our economy works, how our health care system works, how our center right political majority drives the nation I have to wonder what exactly he loves about the country."
Of course, when our laws help gay people or poor people, you hate them. When our family structures don't conform to your expectations, you hate them. When it's clearly obvious our economy isn't working very well, you hate those who disagree with how to make it work. And as for that last clause...argument by pure assertion.
I wonder what you love about our country. It seems to me you just love your own reflection.
Of course, when our laws help gay people or poor people, you hate them. When our family structures don't conform to your expectations, you hate them. When it's clearly obvious our economy isn't working very well, you hate those who disagree with how to make it work. And as for that last clause...argument by pure assertion.
I wonder what you love about our country. It seems to me you just love your own reflection.
46
@39- "Healthcare in the Netherlands is financed by a dual system that came into effect in January 2006. Long-term treatments, especially those that involve semi-permanent hospitalization, and also disability costs such as wheelchairs, are covered by a state-controlled mandatory insurance. This is laid down in the Algemene Wet Bijzondere Ziektekosten ("General Law on Exceptional Healthcare Costs") which first came into effect in 1968. In 2009 this insurance covered 27% of all health care expenses.[1] The Netherlands was ranked first in a study comparing the health care systems of the US, Australia, Canada, Great Britain, Germany and New Zealand.[2]
For all regular (short-term) medical treatment, there is a system of obligatory health insurance, with private health insurance companies. These insurance companies are obliged to provide a package with a defined set of insured treatments.[3] This insurance covers 41% of all health care expenses.[4]" (Wikipedia)
So 30% of healthcare coverage comes from a completely state controlled system and 40% comes from a tightly regulated obligatory private healthcare system. I guess one could reasonably say that is "largely" but your phrasing implied their system was something like the recently passed reforms in the USA. It's not much like that at all.
For all regular (short-term) medical treatment, there is a system of obligatory health insurance, with private health insurance companies. These insurance companies are obliged to provide a package with a defined set of insured treatments.[3] This insurance covers 41% of all health care expenses.[4]" (Wikipedia)
So 30% of healthcare coverage comes from a completely state controlled system and 40% comes from a tightly regulated obligatory private healthcare system. I guess one could reasonably say that is "largely" but your phrasing implied their system was something like the recently passed reforms in the USA. It's not much like that at all.
47
"But when you hate how our laws work"
Wait, don't you hate the way the Supreme Court of the USA decided the laws on abortion
"how our family structure works"
You mean the one that has a 50% divorce rate, allows straight people limitless marriages and divorces, that is okay with rapists and murderers marrying, but still won't let gay people get married?
"how our economy works"
The economy in which GE didn't pay any taxes, yet folks like you and I did?
"how our health care system works"
The system that leaves millions without coverage? Wanting to provide them with health care is America hating?
"how our center right political majority drives the nation"
The same nation that now polls in favor of gay marriage, raising taxes on the millionaires, and corporations?
Wait, don't you hate the way the Supreme Court of the USA decided the laws on abortion
"how our family structure works"
You mean the one that has a 50% divorce rate, allows straight people limitless marriages and divorces, that is okay with rapists and murderers marrying, but still won't let gay people get married?
"how our economy works"
The economy in which GE didn't pay any taxes, yet folks like you and I did?
"how our health care system works"
The system that leaves millions without coverage? Wanting to provide them with health care is America hating?
"how our center right political majority drives the nation"
The same nation that now polls in favor of gay marriage, raising taxes on the millionaires, and corporations?
48
@47 Remember you're talking to someone who loves this country so much he claims he leaves it at every possible opportunity, and who thinks things are so bad that he can never be bothered to actually do anything to make the world a better place unless it doesn't cost him anything or inconvenience him in any way, and who is quick to point out what he perceives as incorrect statements by others but refuses to address the times he's been caught flat out lying.
Oh yeah, and this is someone who denies being a bigot. He just hates people who aren't like him because he believes Jesus told him it's okay.
Oh yeah, and this is someone who denies being a bigot. He just hates people who aren't like him because he believes Jesus told him it's okay.
49
...it was funnier when South Park did it. That poor man.
There needs to be something built into bankruptcy law so that patients can say, "Perform the surgery now, let me pay you back in installments, and I promise that I won't declare bankruptcy just to get out of paying you."
There needs to be something built into bankruptcy law so that patients can say, "Perform the surgery now, let me pay you back in installments, and I promise that I won't declare bankruptcy just to get out of paying you."
52
@49 Doctors don't like that because then they can't make a profit on it ... as quickly. They like people on insurance because they are guaranteed payment ... which is where the real problem lies.
Want to fix the medical industry, stop letting it be an industry for one:
1. If an patient is misdiagnosed by a medical doctor then all subsequent medical procedures done to correct the ailment will be paid in full by the doctor who made the incorrect diagnosis. If multiple doctors are accountable for a misdiagnosis then the costs will be divided among them.
2. If a test has been done once already, and failed to determine the problem, then all subsequent identical tests for the same symptoms will be at the expense of the medical institution itself. The only exemption is if all other tests possible have also been exhausted.
3. Pain ans suffering of the patient will be taken more serious. Doctors will no longer ignore pain when there are no other symptoms. Pain is the only common symptom that is often a sign of serious ailments. Degrees of pain are different for each patient, and thus should be looked at as a serious symptom at all times.
4. Prices of common sundries and medications shall not exceed the local mean prices, and shall not be replaced with inferior products to inflate the profits. Enough profit is made on actual medical procedures and even simple consultations are inflated a lot more than they need to be, sundries and medication needed by in patient care should not be inflated in costs for profit.
5. Any procedure requested by the patient that does not put their lives in danger shall be honored and the patient can not in any way retaliate for the procedure if it was done correctly by the doctor.
6. Should a patient be unable to answer for themselves, said patient can not in any way retaliate for life saving procedures unless the patient requests in writing for an alternative method or procedure.
7. Medical doctors and surgeons will respect a patient's right to choose. No more up-selling of products or prescriptions. The doctor will inform the patient of all options and allow the patient to choose, though recommendations may be made all other options must be disclosed with honest and balanced information included. Patients will take responsibility for their health care out of the office as well, they will be responsible for researching recommendations made by the doctor.
8. If a patient suffers because of any medical facility's inaction or uncaring, then all medical bills to correct that suffering will be paid in full by that facility.
9. Medical institutions, hospitals, even private practices will accept cash or payment plans and will not defer the amount owed to a collection agency until a minimum of one year has passed without word. Not doing so will result in loss of license for life.
More...
Want to fix the medical industry, stop letting it be an industry for one:
1. If an patient is misdiagnosed by a medical doctor then all subsequent medical procedures done to correct the ailment will be paid in full by the doctor who made the incorrect diagnosis. If multiple doctors are accountable for a misdiagnosis then the costs will be divided among them.
2. If a test has been done once already, and failed to determine the problem, then all subsequent identical tests for the same symptoms will be at the expense of the medical institution itself. The only exemption is if all other tests possible have also been exhausted.
3. Pain ans suffering of the patient will be taken more serious. Doctors will no longer ignore pain when there are no other symptoms. Pain is the only common symptom that is often a sign of serious ailments. Degrees of pain are different for each patient, and thus should be looked at as a serious symptom at all times.
4. Prices of common sundries and medications shall not exceed the local mean prices, and shall not be replaced with inferior products to inflate the profits. Enough profit is made on actual medical procedures and even simple consultations are inflated a lot more than they need to be, sundries and medication needed by in patient care should not be inflated in costs for profit.
5. Any procedure requested by the patient that does not put their lives in danger shall be honored and the patient can not in any way retaliate for the procedure if it was done correctly by the doctor.
6. Should a patient be unable to answer for themselves, said patient can not in any way retaliate for life saving procedures unless the patient requests in writing for an alternative method or procedure.
7. Medical doctors and surgeons will respect a patient's right to choose. No more up-selling of products or prescriptions. The doctor will inform the patient of all options and allow the patient to choose, though recommendations may be made all other options must be disclosed with honest and balanced information included. Patients will take responsibility for their health care out of the office as well, they will be responsible for researching recommendations made by the doctor.
8. If a patient suffers because of any medical facility's inaction or uncaring, then all medical bills to correct that suffering will be paid in full by that facility.
9. Medical institutions, hospitals, even private practices will accept cash or payment plans and will not defer the amount owed to a collection agency until a minimum of one year has passed without word. Not doing so will result in loss of license for life.
53
@52: Doctors/hospitals are by no means guaranteed payment when dealing with insured patients. HMOs screw hospitals and clinics out of money previously promised every day. It's reasons like this that HMOs are reviled by everyone--including those in the medical field.
54
@53 not all insurance companies are HMOs. ;) But the point being, the doctors won't take cash payments or even a promise to pay, which is wrong. But beyond that, the inflated prices medical institutions charge is outrageous and should be put into check. Sometimes you can actually get truth from some doctors, and many medical procedures that they charge a lot of money for are actually quite simple, one has even admitted that the price paid by the patient is almost ten times what the procedure should cost, even after paying the surgeon. I didn't come up with these points by only looking at what my problems are, I came up with these based on what doctors, nurses, and other medical staff have talked about. There are some doctors who do care, a few of them, and their largest complaint is having their hands tied by frivolous lawsuits or the administration in charge of the institution they work at. There are other complaints, but paranoia in the US is at an all time high and there's no way anyone would see the benefits of a massive patient database where all medical doctors can gain access to their patient records.
55
Ah yes, the philosophy (using that word is a stretch, I know) of Kittenkoder and seattleblues: I'm miserable, so I want everyone else down in the same hole I'm in.
This fits them perfectly:
http://exiledonline.com/we-the-spiteful/
This fits them perfectly:
http://exiledonline.com/we-the-spiteful/
57
@56: Pray tell, which post would that be? Your copy-and-paste job @52?
Bigot, huh? Interesting. Explain what you mean.
Bigot, huh? Interesting. Explain what you mean.
58
Copy and paste? o.O Wow .... you didn't actually read it then. You prejudged something based on what your personal feelings are instead of taking it as it is. Though likely not the correct word, it was the easiest to type. The only place I copied that from, was my own file system. If you read it, it actually balances out the power between the medical industry and the patient. I'm not well known on legalese so the wording is a bit layman, but I also pretty much suck at explaining things anyway. Words are not something I am good with.
But again, until you actually read it, you are no better than a blind voter marking a random checkbox ... assuming you vote at all. I should have just continued to ignore your failed trolling, but I was hoping you'd actually read it. Most of the other failtrolls have me on their "ignore" list, I am surprised you do not yet, so here's your chance to prove you actually have an interest in solutions.
But again, until you actually read it, you are no better than a blind voter marking a random checkbox ... assuming you vote at all. I should have just continued to ignore your failed trolling, but I was hoping you'd actually read it. Most of the other failtrolls have me on their "ignore" list, I am surprised you do not yet, so here's your chance to prove you actually have an interest in solutions.
59
@58: It is a copy and paste job, KittenKoder. You dumped the exact same thing into usmessageboards.com on the 18th at 5:51 AM server time.
What you fail to recognize is that some points of your plan will stop doctors from doing their jobs. If a doctor is held responsible for all costs associated with a misdiagnosis, what do you think happens when a patient shows up with ambiguous symptoms? He can't risk making the wrong diagnosis, so he waits until he has more tests, or the patient's symptoms become more characteristic of one disorder. But the patient could be dead by then, depending on the problem. In medicine, you can't always afford to wait and see; sometimes you need to make a snap judgement and provide treatment.
Same thing with the tests. Sometimes a test needs to be run more than once to verify the results, as the science is not 100% perfect. If hospitals clamp down on test duplication/verification, doctors will not have the best information at their fingertips.
And as far as this goes: "Pain is the only common symptom that is often a sign of serious ailments." You're just dead wrong. How about fever, for example? And many times, pain is idiopathic. In the absence of other symptoms or particular patient history, all a doctor can do is tell you to pop a painkiller. And forcing doctors to see everyone with unexplained pain will take up their time like nobody's business, preventing them from seeing people who actually need treatment.
It's clear that you didn't think your plan through, and that you don't have the proper mindset to be a scientist of any sort. Get out of here; those kittens won't kode themselves.
What you fail to recognize is that some points of your plan will stop doctors from doing their jobs. If a doctor is held responsible for all costs associated with a misdiagnosis, what do you think happens when a patient shows up with ambiguous symptoms? He can't risk making the wrong diagnosis, so he waits until he has more tests, or the patient's symptoms become more characteristic of one disorder. But the patient could be dead by then, depending on the problem. In medicine, you can't always afford to wait and see; sometimes you need to make a snap judgement and provide treatment.
Same thing with the tests. Sometimes a test needs to be run more than once to verify the results, as the science is not 100% perfect. If hospitals clamp down on test duplication/verification, doctors will not have the best information at their fingertips.
And as far as this goes: "Pain is the only common symptom that is often a sign of serious ailments." You're just dead wrong. How about fever, for example? And many times, pain is idiopathic. In the absence of other symptoms or particular patient history, all a doctor can do is tell you to pop a painkiller. And forcing doctors to see everyone with unexplained pain will take up their time like nobody's business, preventing them from seeing people who actually need treatment.
It's clear that you didn't think your plan through, and that you don't have the proper mindset to be a scientist of any sort. Get out of here; those kittens won't kode themselves.
60
At least KittenKoder seems to be want intelligent discussions, unlike Seattleblues who only comes here to get his ego stroked only to find that the some of the liberals he hates so much are really his intellectual and moral superiors.
61
@59 At least you actually read it. As I said, there needs to be legal tweaking in it, it's just an outline of what would help fix the medical problems in the US, instead of shifting who pays. As for the tests, you do realize that right now they are doing one, maybe two (if you're lucky) tests then guessing most of the time. There have been many times in which something deadly serious is diagnosed as IBS, and often leading to complications, it's not a rare thing to happen, but no one wants to hold the doctors accountable for such lazy behaviors. A bunch of tests to see what's wrong, and get it right, is going to save more lives and money than what they are doing now.
Pain is one of the most telling symptoms, and is most often ignored, the doctors attending will smile and nod .... and then not only completely ignore actual physical pain, they push pain medications instead of looking at it as a serious symptom. Fever and all that they can verify themselves, it's pain they ignore because that's not something they can detect. Saying the pain is "all in their head" is stupid, naive, and rather defeatist. It's an excuse doctors use to avoid doing more tests if they find nothing, thus they can just declare it one of those made up syndromes and hope it passes, looking like they actually earned their inflated pay ($113 for a fifteen minute consultation from a GP is stupid). Now I know others like lawyers are just as expensive, but with medical we have no choice, we pay or die. Ignoring the pain of a patient is what has lead to misdiagnosis in most patients. I tell everyone who's diagnosed with IBS to get more tests done, suspect things like gallstones or worse. Gallstones can cause sever pain in a specific area of the body, not that it means you need surgery, but if they are there then a simple and cheap sonogram will detect them, instead of the over priced CT scan. That's just the example I know of best, because of first hand experience, I'm certain you can find other such cases. Not to mention EVERYONE passes gallstones often, it's when they don't pass that it's a problem and the pain associated with IBS is just what gallstones passing is like.
Running the same test five times, each time getting the exact same results, is insanity, or laziness. Again my example, they did a CT scan five times (once each time I went it) and wrote it off as the made up IBS ... sixth visit to the same emergency room and the doctor did the CT scan, saw nothing so suspected something else and did the sonogram ..... found out what was literally killing me. An x-ray would have also seen the problem, just sonogram is cheaper and he was pretty certain he knew what was wrong. One doctor, out of six, that actually cared enough not to just write off the pain, he listened and deduced the most likely culprits.
Another serious problem that I didn't address is the stereotyping of medical ailments. Gallstone blockage was not even suspected by the other doctors because they think it only happens to heavy people, I'm scrawny and always have been. Most of my medical problems are "not suppose to happen to skinny people," their words. Yet many people often wind up needing emergency surgeries because such ailments are thought of as "not possible for such and such" ... unless the organ is absent, there is no weight limit to any ailment, no race limit, none of that. That's one reason I despise them using such statistics. I have spoken to at least five people who have had almost the exact same experience I had, spoke to them in real life so sorry, no links.
As for your "copy paste" bullshit, copy pasting is when you plagiarizer someone's words as your own. These are my words thus it's my right to post it where I want. If you want to accuse someone of something, at least make sure they do something wrong first.
More...
Pain is one of the most telling symptoms, and is most often ignored, the doctors attending will smile and nod .... and then not only completely ignore actual physical pain, they push pain medications instead of looking at it as a serious symptom. Fever and all that they can verify themselves, it's pain they ignore because that's not something they can detect. Saying the pain is "all in their head" is stupid, naive, and rather defeatist. It's an excuse doctors use to avoid doing more tests if they find nothing, thus they can just declare it one of those made up syndromes and hope it passes, looking like they actually earned their inflated pay ($113 for a fifteen minute consultation from a GP is stupid). Now I know others like lawyers are just as expensive, but with medical we have no choice, we pay or die. Ignoring the pain of a patient is what has lead to misdiagnosis in most patients. I tell everyone who's diagnosed with IBS to get more tests done, suspect things like gallstones or worse. Gallstones can cause sever pain in a specific area of the body, not that it means you need surgery, but if they are there then a simple and cheap sonogram will detect them, instead of the over priced CT scan. That's just the example I know of best, because of first hand experience, I'm certain you can find other such cases. Not to mention EVERYONE passes gallstones often, it's when they don't pass that it's a problem and the pain associated with IBS is just what gallstones passing is like.
Running the same test five times, each time getting the exact same results, is insanity, or laziness. Again my example, they did a CT scan five times (once each time I went it) and wrote it off as the made up IBS ... sixth visit to the same emergency room and the doctor did the CT scan, saw nothing so suspected something else and did the sonogram ..... found out what was literally killing me. An x-ray would have also seen the problem, just sonogram is cheaper and he was pretty certain he knew what was wrong. One doctor, out of six, that actually cared enough not to just write off the pain, he listened and deduced the most likely culprits.
Another serious problem that I didn't address is the stereotyping of medical ailments. Gallstone blockage was not even suspected by the other doctors because they think it only happens to heavy people, I'm scrawny and always have been. Most of my medical problems are "not suppose to happen to skinny people," their words. Yet many people often wind up needing emergency surgeries because such ailments are thought of as "not possible for such and such" ... unless the organ is absent, there is no weight limit to any ailment, no race limit, none of that. That's one reason I despise them using such statistics. I have spoken to at least five people who have had almost the exact same experience I had, spoke to them in real life so sorry, no links.
As for your "copy paste" bullshit, copy pasting is when you plagiarizer someone's words as your own. These are my words thus it's my right to post it where I want. If you want to accuse someone of something, at least make sure they do something wrong first.
62
@60, thank you. I did, and tried, the failtrolls jumped on the bandwagon so I trolled them back to get them to ignore me ... it worked, but then it's an old tactic of mine from message boards.
63
Sorry KittenKoder, respect has to be earned. You continuously post hate-filled, spiteful vitriol on Slog comment threads that in no way add to the discussion or respond to what anyone else has said. That is the essence of trolling. Now, that you want to have some substance in your comments you suddenly expect others to read and respect it. It does not work like that. This thread does not exist in a vacuum, sister. Regardless of your politics, people will listen to you (not everyone, there are some MAJOR liberal trolls too) when you are not acting like an asshole. So far that is all I've seen you do.
64
If you read them, you'd see they do have points buried in them. However, though the intent was to make a point, it was buried in a method to get those not serious about debate and the real trolls to ignore me. Thus, you'd have to read the whole thing to see the point, which really helped identify those who were more interested in disagreeing just to disagree.
But, judge how you will, in reality your world has little impact on mine. Online, I'm also really good at ignoring people without feeding them, it's a good skill, so if you are unwilling to read things through or just want to disagree just to disagree, I will return to ignoring you as I have done until now.
But, judge how you will, in reality your world has little impact on mine. Online, I'm also really good at ignoring people without feeding them, it's a good skill, so if you are unwilling to read things through or just want to disagree just to disagree, I will return to ignoring you as I have done until now.
65
Well, you speak of missing the point yet you missed mine entirely. No sense in trying to reason with you.
May you find some happiness and peace of mind.
May you find some happiness and peace of mind.
66
@54: I used HMO as a generic catch-all term in reference to insurance companies. I guess there's a more specific definition that distinguishes it from other types of insurance plans (HMO, PPO, POS, EIEIO, LGBTQITSLFA, whatever). My point was intended to make sure that you aren't under the false impression that insurance companies are any more honest towards healthcare providers than they are to healthcare patients.
67
@36: Maybe Afghanistan? I know the Taliban still control a large percentage of the country. Or North Korea? Seriously, America is far too lenient toward people who don't love it uncritically for a true patriot like you to have endured it this long. Follow your own advice, for a change.
68
@61: "copy pasting is when you plagiarizer someone's words as your own"
No, that's plagiarism. Copypasting is when you hit Ctrl-C followed by Ctrl-V. (Replace "Ctrl" with "⌘" if you don't know how to use anything other than a Mac.)
The point I was making about your proposed set of rules is that there are too many situations in which they would do more harm than good, and that there's no easy algorithm for where to draw the line. They'd work well as guidelines, but not as rules. If you want to write up rules for how to run a hospital, you'd better have some experience running one and have a few other admins and medical doctors consulting on the project.
No, that's plagiarism. Copypasting is when you hit Ctrl-C followed by Ctrl-V. (Replace "Ctrl" with "⌘" if you don't know how to use anything other than a Mac.)
The point I was making about your proposed set of rules is that there are too many situations in which they would do more harm than good, and that there's no easy algorithm for where to draw the line. They'd work well as guidelines, but not as rules. If you want to write up rules for how to run a hospital, you'd better have some experience running one and have a few other admins and medical doctors consulting on the project.
69
@68 Your condescending tone is duly noted, I shall refrain from bothering to read your posts from here on.
70
@69: Your butthurt is duly noted. I shall refrain from being bothered that you're not reading my posts, now and forever.
71
@69 Yep, you've never once displayed a condescending tone in *any* of your posts. Why, I can't even find a single instance of you doing so on this page, or anywhere else on the slog. You've always been nothing but respectful in every post, clear in your thoughts, and totally free of blind ideology.
In related news, I've never written a single sarcastic thing in my life, ever.
In related news, I've never written a single sarcastic thing in my life, ever.
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