Slog
News & ArtsSunday, October 9, 2011
Occupy Mayor Explains His Anti-Umbrella Rules
Posted by Dominic Holden on Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 4:49 PM
Mayor Mike McGinn just posted a long statement that explains why drivers were ticketed for honking in support of the Occupy Seattle protesters and why he supported an insane crackdown on umbrellas last night (cops told protesters they had to stand and hold umbrellas upright, not sit down with them): Here's part of the statement:
Police were concerned that protest participants were using umbrellas and tarps to create makeshift tents to evade the no-camping rule. But no one has been ticketed or prohibited from using an umbrella at Westlake. They remain (and hopefully always will remain) legal in Seattle.
The city does feel strongly about camping at Westlake. Some have argued that the justness of the cause means we should look the other way and ignore the city’s no-camping rules at Westlake. But when it comes to free speech, government does not get to do that. We are not allowed to favor one type of speech over another. That is anathema to the Constitution. If we permit camping at Westlake for one group, no matter how worthy the cause, we will be obligated to permit camping at Westlake for any group that wishes to do so as a form of speech. That is simply not an appropriate use for Westlake. This is why we have made City Hall, a civic building that is a locus of political speech, available for camping. Anyone who wants to stay warm and dry can do so at City Hall plaza.
There's a wet, wet forecast for the next few days; the protesters may find McGinn's standing offer to stay dry at City Hall, which they rejected on Friday, increasingly attractive. [UPDATE: Just to be clear here, I'm not saying the protesters should move to City Hall—there are pros and some serious cons.]
1
Well, as I said, I'm not really sure that removing the tents was a net advantage.
When the tents were up there were defined spaces, "streets" if you will.
Without the tents it's this mass of plastic and clothing and people laying on the floor.
With tents, a casual passerby might mistake the event to be a Rainbow Girl gathering.
When the tents were up there were defined spaces, "streets" if you will.
Without the tents it's this mass of plastic and clothing and people laying on the floor.
With tents, a casual passerby might mistake the event to be a Rainbow Girl gathering.
2
So umbrellas are defacto tents now, eh? I'll remember that next time I go backpacking, as I'm sure they are just as effective.
Next time you talk to your sagacious mayor, ask him if unfurled magazines=tents, too.
Next time you talk to your sagacious mayor, ask him if unfurled magazines=tents, too.
3
I agree Dominic!! Get those protesters to City Hall...then they'll be out of the vision of most people who are downtown.
4
@3) I didn't say they should move to City Hall, just that McGinn's offer may look better if the weather gets worse.
5
I think Seattle should have an umbrella-in. Everyone and their grandfather should go down to city hall with an umbrella they're willing to part with. They should open it and leave it on the ground -- creating a massive encampment of newly formed tent-umbrellas.
Fuck the Mayor.
Fuck the Mayor.
6
I actually think it does make some sense to treat an umbrella on the ground as a makeshift shelter; I certainly don't know how I'd distinguish one from, say, a lean-to, in legalese.
What I don't understand, though, is how sleeping in the park in the open air doesn't constitute "camping," while sleeping in a structure does. Is the structure part of the legal definition of "camping?"
Can you just throw down a sleeping bag and crash in a city park without violating the law?
What I don't understand, though, is how sleeping in the park in the open air doesn't constitute "camping," while sleeping in a structure does. Is the structure part of the legal definition of "camping?"
Can you just throw down a sleeping bag and crash in a city park without violating the law?
7
While the Mayor's definition of camping is iffy, to say the least, I also can't help but feel a major possibility in the idea of having a mass march to and from City Hall every day, especially during rush hour in the morning. Like some kind of spiritual-free speech ritual.
Furthermore, saying "Fuck the Mayor" when he and the rest of the city government are holding a surprising amount of restraint just seems obnoxious.
Furthermore, saying "Fuck the Mayor" when he and the rest of the city government are holding a surprising amount of restraint just seems obnoxious.
8
@4
This here is the movement when the occupy moment collapsed. They all turned tail and scurried over to City Hall, where the would bother nobody and disappear from the public eye, to be forgotten. Left the stage to be owned by the fucking Tea Party.
All because Dominic Holden said they should. Thanks, Dominic. I hope you're happy. Probly cash yr check from the Koch brothers at your new B of A account. Here's your bazillion dollars, Dominic, thanks for telling them to go where McGinn said they could go.
I hope you're happy now.
This here is the movement when the occupy moment collapsed. They all turned tail and scurried over to City Hall, where the would bother nobody and disappear from the public eye, to be forgotten. Left the stage to be owned by the fucking Tea Party.
All because Dominic Holden said they should. Thanks, Dominic. I hope you're happy. Probly cash yr check from the Koch brothers at your new B of A account. Here's your bazillion dollars, Dominic, thanks for telling them to go where McGinn said they could go.
I hope you're happy now.
9
Wall Street and ethanol cause starvation, say scientists
Lifting controls on agricultural commodities markets in the 1990's meant literally anyone could bet on the future price of corn and other staples. The result has been a bubble of epic proportions.
http://www.grist.org/list/2011-10-07-wal…
12
There's still a Free Ride Zone, hop into the tunnel at Macy's and get off at Pioneer and you're practically at City Hall. Leave some people behind to watch tents. Just a little organization here...
13
@KittenKoder, Hey, I've gotten the sense that you have waaaaaay too much free time on your hands. Instead of blathering about god knows what it is you blather about here on SLOG, why don't you put some time into pulling that dog's lunch you call your website out of the swamp of internet 1.0 and into the modern era? I'm certain all five of the people looking to get their role playing game chat on would appreciate your efforts there far more than we here, who receive such a large share of your explosive logorrhea.
15
"That we are discussing honking, tents and umbrellas is in some way a sign of success. Yes, there have been disagreements, but they are modest in scale." modest in scale? as someone who as spent many overnights in the seattle streets in protest, tents & umbrellas (and other rain protections) are not MODEST ingredients at all... this tone is pissing me off. if you want modest, look to how the portland mayor is handling his protests.
16
We have City Hall for much the same reason that we have the Central Library: Vanity, and the desire towards that nebulous Seattle-esque aspiration of being "world class". The powers that be felt the old structures weren't suitable to contain their sense of self-worth,
As someone who works in the Seattle Municipal Tower (a building so poorly designed and ugly that only government is suitable as tenants) I benefit from that legacy every day. Norm Rice must have gotten one sweet deal to have accepted that dog of a building - and the land grab of public property that went along with it.
Of course, Westlake is no prize either. Somebody had to have been greasing the skids for that remarkably ugly public space to have been developed. The old Westlake was grimy and sketchy, but much more interesting and productive.
As someone who works in the Seattle Municipal Tower (a building so poorly designed and ugly that only government is suitable as tenants) I benefit from that legacy every day. Norm Rice must have gotten one sweet deal to have accepted that dog of a building - and the land grab of public property that went along with it.
Of course, Westlake is no prize either. Somebody had to have been greasing the skids for that remarkably ugly public space to have been developed. The old Westlake was grimy and sketchy, but much more interesting and productive.
17
Omg why can't mcginn just shut the fuck up and stay out of it. It's on. Let the beauracrats go home and fret while the people get the shit done.
18
I don't see how moving to City Hall would dilute their message. If the tents are that important to them, they should just move. If it's the message that's most important to them, they should stop distracting from it by fighting with the police and insisting on illegal camping.
20
@18, your missing the point. Mcginn is saying "move to city hall so the businesses around westlake can keep doing business." we're saying "stop protecting the gap, the abercrombies, the "lush" life... " in our name. Fuck your minimum wage jobs body shop, fuck your Chinese clothes old navy, fuck you mcginn for buying into it.
21
Anyone know if McGinn has an actual point here or not? That if he doesn't try and stop the protesters from illegally camping, that the next person who tries to camp there after Occupy Seattle eventually leaves (hopefully because we've actually managed to make significant gains in economic equality and such) will be able to use their precedent? Or would it just be a question of prosecutorial discretion, making McGinn's whole point would be bullshit?
22
Wikipedia calls Westlake Seattle's Town Square, it's even cited. But I read through the citation and though it's parks doc that wishes to improve public use of downtown parks, I don't think this is what it has in mind. If a corporation's millions of dollars is free speech then camping is too.
23
@20 -- You're right, I don't see the point. I thought the protest was about bringing attention to unemployment and the need to impose higher taxes on the wealthiest percent, not about saying fuck the businesses around Westlake.
24
@13 That website is just to show off a chat system I designed ... I was considering expanding it ... but meh. I just don't see any reason to bother. But thanks for noticing. But yeah, I do have too much time on my hands right now. Blame the doctors if you want to get mad about it. I can't think clearly enough to code anything useful right now because of pain meds and ... well ... actual human contact sickens me so I don't go "out".
@23 DING! The prize goes to you. They don't know what they're protesting. The Occupy Wall St. was started to target Wall Street specifically, but these spin off ones are just destroying local businesses for no reason, and most don't even know what they're protesting, many are protesting some made up conspiracy or another as well. It's just a jumble of shit piled on top of manure.
@23 DING! The prize goes to you. They don't know what they're protesting. The Occupy Wall St. was started to target Wall Street specifically, but these spin off ones are just destroying local businesses for no reason, and most don't even know what they're protesting, many are protesting some made up conspiracy or another as well. It's just a jumble of shit piled on top of manure.
25
@KK, You really don't get it. A good chunk of Sloggers, including myself, are sick or disabled misanthropes who have to put up with as much shit from incompetent doctors as you, if not more. There isn't some kind of party line you have to toe to post here, but for god's sake, stop constantly posting these convoluted, unconstructive word mazes that would make Alan Turing want to hide beneath a blanket.
@The rest of SLOG, my apologies for feeding the troll. As payment for my sin, have this .gif of a half-dozen cardigan corgi puppies mobbing a cat.
@The rest of SLOG, my apologies for feeding the troll. As payment for my sin, have this .gif of a half-dozen cardigan corgi puppies mobbing a cat.
26
President Obama's Jobs Tsar Speaks:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/10/0…
Immelt: You know, I grew up in Cincinnati, Ohio and my parents are really right wingers. My dad watches like, five or six hours of "Fox News" every day and stuff like that. So I called home and said, "Hey, just to give you a heads up, you know, I'm going to be with the President and he's asked me to lead this jobs council." And my mother said, "Well, you said, no, of course didn't you?" I said, "No mom, that's not what I said."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/10/0…
27
@25 Aaah ... but you have also just now proven that people don't really care about the real problems. If you did care about real problems, you'd want to fix them instead of protesting something that's not even really part of the problem itself.
28
@27, The only thing my last comment proves is that I cannot let a troll go hungry. Given the strange logical leap you have just made, and your vague pronouncements about "real problems", especially as a response to @25, you might pause to consider what you have just proven about yourself.
30
KittenKoder dear, just which local businesses have been destroyed by the protests? Indeed, what local businesses are located within four blocks of Westlake?
31
@29, No, you have proven that you have poor reading comprehension and little grasp of logic. Your responses to my comments are non sequiturs.
33
Given the latest fad of police "kettling" protesters, I would prefer an occupy site with lots of exits. The other thing I noticed after spending the night downtown, after 6pm the place depopulates except for homeless people and aimless youth, nobody lives there. Unlike Portland, downtown has few human services like parks, fountains, public restrooms, playgrounds,ect.
You'd think the city planners really didn't want people to congregate in the financial core of Seattle, huh, imagine that? The whole idea with OS is to bring the pain back to the bankers and insurance actuaries who brought on this economic shitstorm, city hall has been the poorly paid prostitute in this particular scenario.
You'd think the city planners really didn't want people to congregate in the financial core of Seattle, huh, imagine that? The whole idea with OS is to bring the pain back to the bankers and insurance actuaries who brought on this economic shitstorm, city hall has been the poorly paid prostitute in this particular scenario.
34
McGinn is scarred of homeless people sleeping in public. He can dance around it all he wants but these rules are clearly targeting people who sleep in tents.
36
@35: Rally at 5pm (McGinn speaking), general assembly at 5:45, candlelight vigil at 7:00.
See http://occupyseattle.org/calendar
See http://occupyseattle.org/calendar
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