Slog
News & ArtsWednesday, October 5, 2011
Occupy / City Arrests Underway at Occupy Seattle (Updated)
Posted by Dominic Holden on Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 4:46 PM
- Cienna Madrid
Plenty o' updates after the jump.
Originally posted at 2:12 PM: With a phalanx of cops standing by, park rangers at the Occupy Seattle protests in Westlake Park "are going from tent to tent, telling protesters to take their tents down so they can clean the whole park," reports Paul Constant. Rangers add that folks won't be allowed to set their tents back up once the park is clean. At this point, only eight tents remain standing, Paul says, but protesters say they intend to wait until 7:00 p.m. and set up their tents again.
"It's getting very hectic here," Paul reports. Lots of people are chanting: "We are the 99 percent."
UPDATE at 2:20 PM: Police are encircling the tents as park rangers dismantle the them, says Paul via cell phone. Around the circle of cops and rangers are larger circles of protesters. The cops are in regular uniform, not riot gear.
UPDATE at 2:31 PM: Occupy Seattle spokeswoman Aliana Bazara calls with an update. As police and park officials dismantle some empty tents, about 15 to 20 protesters have begun climbing into the remaining empty tents and preparing to get arrested. “We are sitting in the empty tents that are remaining—the people who are willing to get arrested,” she says.
KING 5 has a photo of protesters locking arms around a tent.
“We do not want people to get arrested,” Bazara clarifies. “That is not the motivation; the motivation is to occupy Seattle and to show our support for the nationwide occupy movement that is happening all over the country. She also makes a plea: “We are trying to contact as many people as we can to get down here and show their support.”
- Via OccupySeattle on Twitpic
UPDATE at 2:46: Paul reports on the two arrests so far: "There was a protester in front of a tent and a protester in a tent and they just arrested them. They were pulled away and they went peacefully." He says police are down to the last two tents. "Police are approaching the big tent where the majority of the tent occupiers are."
UPDATE at 2:48: I just spoke on the phone to Peter Donahue, who is inside one of those last two tents. “We want to hold this ground. If we do, maybe they will leave,” he says. He says authorities told them to leave on Saturday, but they managed to stay put. Why do they need tents? "It’s wet and it's cold and it's nice to have shelter. “I don’t want to get arrested but at this point, I feel like enough is enough—nothing is going happen if a bunch of us don’t take a stand.”
UPDATE at 2:50 PM: A photo of an arrest and the police hauling a man off. Video of the first arrest.
UPDATE at 3:03 PM: A livestream (with an annoying ad that ends after 30 seconds) is here.
UPDATE at 3:11 PM: Occupy Seattle tweets that there have been a total of nine arrests:
UPDATE at 3:29 PM: Joe Miraballa at Seattlepi.com writes an open letter to McGinn asking him to let the protesters stay.
UPDATE at 3:39 PM: There's now a cold standoff. Three tents are stuffed with protesters and cops are hanging back, reports Paul Constant. "Protesters are linking arms around one of the tents," he says. "I don't know why they chose that tent—I think they got their shit together enough to surround it."
- Paul Constant
UPDATE at 3:46 PM: Organizers ask for your help: "We need more tents, we need more people, we need new supplies."
UPDATE at 4:04 PM: Police just arrested another protester. Officers had targeted one of the tents that doesn't have protesters linked around it, Paul says, and pulled a person out of it. He says police are moving slowly, methodically. Two tents remain.
UPDATE at 4:08 PM: Police have dismantled another tent, and now only one tent remains. Paul says, "That's the one with everyone ringing it—that one's going to be a real bitch."
UPDATE at 4:25 PM: Overheard in the office from Goldy, referring to the mayor: "Vowing to clear out the park last night, and then not clearing out the park last night, and then arresting a few people this afternoon before pulling back is not exactly the way to appear decisive and in control."
UPDATE at 4:40 PM: Here's what the scene looks like now:
"There is a ring of police circling the ring of protesters," says Paul. "Then other cops go into the ring of protester and then pulling on their arms until they let go of each other. About six or seven have been arrested so far and there are six or seven to go."
UPDATE at 4:46 PM: The last tent is down, two more people have been arrested, and the others have dispersed, Cienna reports. As the cops backed slowly out of the crowd, protesters chanted, "Fuck the police! We don't want you here! Get out!" Then several people began shouting, "Let's block the streets!" Cienna says. At that point, a small group of people walked out onto Fourth Avenue to block traffic when "three cops on horses nonchalantly butted them back onto the curb with horse butts," Cienna reports. Now horse butts are keeping the crowd on the curb.
- Cienna Madrid
UPDATE at 5:05 PM: Seattle Police Department spokespeople don't know what charges they will seek for the protesters (I'm guessing trespassing?). The SPD will post information on those charges later this evening, the media folk say.
UPDATE at 5:22 PM: Protesters with a megaphone just announced that police at the West Precinct are processing and releasing folks who were arrested, Cienna reports. Anyone who wants to stay the night can stay, according to the people with the bullhorn, as long as they don't have a tent or sleeping bag (blankets are apparently okay).
Meanwhile, seven parks employees are spraying down every inch of the park's granite paving, which was already clean from the days of rain. "They came in using the excuse that they wanted to clean the place, so now they are scrubbing the plaza," Cienna says. They even have something that looks like a Zamboni to clean off the supposed protester stink.
- Cienna Madrid
"The crowd has turned into more of a 'Fuck the Police' crowd," Cienna notes. "I haven’t heard anything about banks or any other Occupy Seattle topic."
2
The irony here is that there will always be a "top 1 percent" no matter what they do. I find this whole thing rather humorous. But they are breaking the law and making a mess, so they should be arrested.
4
of course, no one in Seattle is willing to resist arrest enough or even peacefully protest until they are FORCIBLY removed.. oh, you ask me to stop protesting, sure anything to avoid the BATON hitting me in the spine!
5
Yes there will always be a top 1%, but in recent times the difference between them and the rest of us is growing quickly. And the Republicans and Tea Baggers want it to grow faster.
6
I was just down there. There's a ton of handmade signs strewn about, but it seems like most people have already left. I was expecting *more* but its devolved into the normal small group of anarchisty looking types that are at rallies regardless of the cause. rain probably doesn't help.
8
Are all the local TV stations there?
(Cuz it's really, really nice of the Mayor to have the SPD to do this with enough lead time so the story can to make on the 5-o-clock news all over)
(Cuz it's really, really nice of the Mayor to have the SPD to do this with enough lead time so the story can to make on the 5-o-clock news all over)
10
Hey remember when all you McGinn backers accused Mike Mallahan of being as pro-corperate shill during the election?
11
One of the best ways to protest is to move your money from a big bank, into a credit union. If enough people leave the big banks, we will have gotten their attention. The big banks are counting on us being to lazy to make the shift. They want us to "protest" debit card fees by using our credit cards instead. Doing that will only put more money in their pockets. The only way to counter that is to go back to using checks. Or closing the account altogether and going to a credit union.
12
"Come and hassle me, slam me down and wrestle me, just to put on handcuffs, and charge me with resistance when they told throw my hands up" s.s.
13
The credit unions can just wait until all the banks institute the debit card fees, give it a couple of months for the everyone who's going to make the switch to do so...and then institute their own debit card fees, sealing up the trap airtight into a perfect Nash Equilibrium.
16
Mike McGinn is in a no-win situation here.
1) If he evicts the protesters: They'll come back in greater numbers to the exact same location, bring in support from labor unions, progressive Third Party groups, college students, the unemployed and homeless who have nothing to lose anyway. And then what? Is he going to go WTO and tear gas the crowd? His political future will look as bleak as Paul Schell's did.
2) If he does not evict the protesters: Moderate increase in support based on growing affinity among Seattlites for the NYC protests. Disruption of business as many shoppers realize that that latte they just bought from Starbucks now makes them look like an asshole, and whatever outfit they just picked up at Forever 21 just says "Corporate Whore". Sudden loss of consumerist appetite causes massive loss of revenue from downtown businesses. Corresponding outrage from corporations translates to a post-Citizens United spending spree on whoever challenges him for re-election.
McGinn cannot win. No matter how he handles this, he'd better start making plans for where he wants to move after his term of office expires.
1) If he evicts the protesters: They'll come back in greater numbers to the exact same location, bring in support from labor unions, progressive Third Party groups, college students, the unemployed and homeless who have nothing to lose anyway. And then what? Is he going to go WTO and tear gas the crowd? His political future will look as bleak as Paul Schell's did.
2) If he does not evict the protesters: Moderate increase in support based on growing affinity among Seattlites for the NYC protests. Disruption of business as many shoppers realize that that latte they just bought from Starbucks now makes them look like an asshole, and whatever outfit they just picked up at Forever 21 just says "Corporate Whore". Sudden loss of consumerist appetite causes massive loss of revenue from downtown businesses. Corresponding outrage from corporations translates to a post-Citizens United spending spree on whoever challenges him for re-election.
McGinn cannot win. No matter how he handles this, he'd better start making plans for where he wants to move after his term of office expires.
17
...and nothing of value was lost.
We need more traction behind actual ideas like @11's. These would have actual tangible effects.
"The 1%" does not give a single damn about how much time people are willing to devote to standing around chanting with signs and living in tents.
We need more traction behind actual ideas like @11's. These would have actual tangible effects.
"The 1%" does not give a single damn about how much time people are willing to devote to standing around chanting with signs and living in tents.
18
@2- No one is disputing that yes, according to the rules of math there will always be a top 1%. What they object to is the top 1% owning 42% of this country's wealth.
http://www.truth-out.org/5-facts-you-sho…
http://www.truth-out.org/5-facts-you-sho…
19
It's not that interesting until the rubber bullets fly, tear gas is shot at the prosters and someone stands in the middle of the crowd jacking off with a dildo up their ass singing the Battle Hymn of the Republic.
20
@2: To paraphrase you:
"There'll always be someone who's your boss, so why are you slaves protesting the Masta' lash and asking for your freedom? Silly slaves!"
"There'll always be someone who's your boss, so why are you slaves protesting the Masta' lash and asking for your freedom? Silly slaves!"
22
SPD: There is ACTUAL crime happening somewhere! Surely a drunk homeless man is trying to walk down the street, go find him!
23
@13: There's one problem with your pat little theory: credit unions by definition have no profit motive, and are governed by their members.
I know it's hard for people who grew up in this era of hypertrophic klepto-capitalism to believe, but sometimes people to do come together in mutual interest without the intention of screwing each other into the poorhouse.
I know it's hard for people who grew up in this era of hypertrophic klepto-capitalism to believe, but sometimes people to do come together in mutual interest without the intention of screwing each other into the poorhouse.
24
Great, now this is just another typical go-nowhere protest. People who want to get arrested just for the symbolic sake of it. Nobody cares about this bullshit.
25
"Police are approaching the big tent where the majority of the tent occupiers are."
So now it's "Occupy A Tent” instead of “Occupy Seattle”? Soon it will be “Occupy A Jail Cell (and complain that the food isn’t vegan)”.
So now it's "Occupy A Tent” instead of “Occupy Seattle”? Soon it will be “Occupy A Jail Cell (and complain that the food isn’t vegan)”.
26
Well, I'm the 1% and I think they have a right to protest and even be civilly disobedient. But I think their cause will be better served if they have something to say other than, "I'm angry." That's just facile. I'm sure it feels good to go out there and chant that, but, um, what will that change? Not a lot...and I say that from having been in every protest organization I could get time to join when I was young.
But hey, maybe times are different now...
But hey, maybe times are different now...
29
>nothing is going happen if it a bunch of us don’t take a stand.
Yes, you'll be arrested for not knocking it off with the fucking camping in a public plaza. Congratulations. Now you can attempt to set up your tents again and start fights with the police. Then you'll really start a change!
This dumbass protest is already on the same old wrong track. WE HAVE TO HOLD THIS GROUND. HOLD YOUR TENTS.
I thought this was about corporate greed or some shit? What the fuck do you dumb fucks care about whether or not you can keep being Campfire Kids? What does that have to do with ANYTHING you're actually trying to accomplish?
Stand around with signs, go home and sleep. Tents don't fucking matter. I'm sorry you guys can't play along with the unofficial game that's been started by the "Occupy Everything" tagline. Jesus alive this is stupid.
Yes, you'll be arrested for not knocking it off with the fucking camping in a public plaza. Congratulations. Now you can attempt to set up your tents again and start fights with the police. Then you'll really start a change!
This dumbass protest is already on the same old wrong track. WE HAVE TO HOLD THIS GROUND. HOLD YOUR TENTS.
I thought this was about corporate greed or some shit? What the fuck do you dumb fucks care about whether or not you can keep being Campfire Kids? What does that have to do with ANYTHING you're actually trying to accomplish?
Stand around with signs, go home and sleep. Tents don't fucking matter. I'm sorry you guys can't play along with the unofficial game that's been started by the "Occupy Everything" tagline. Jesus alive this is stupid.
31
You're not serious about having a revolution until you are willing to kill your mother, your father, your children and your friends for what you believe in. And history shows that is the case.
34
If you've got all day to sit around, for weeks;
Can't manage a coherent statement due to miseducation or substance use;
Lost all your saving in a sucker bet on home finance;
Overextended yourself on student loans you don't want to pay;
Of the political persuasion to have us all live in your communes by coercion.
The you are clearly NOT part of the 99%.
In fact, you're the bottom 1% -- and nearly all of it is because of shitty personal choices in your own control.
Instead of claiming to represent everyone except the top 1%, let's recognize this de facto "Occupy Slog" group for who they are. Freeloaders, weepy-eyed utopians, and cop-baiting malcontents fringing on the middle 80%, wanting someone else to pay for their drum circle habit.
If you've got all day to sit around, for weeks;
Can't manage a coherent statement due to miseducation or substance use;
Lost all your saving in a sucker bet on home finance;
Overextended yourself on student loans you don't want to pay;
Of the political persuasion to have us all live in your communes by coercion.
The you are clearly NOT part of the 99%.
In fact, you're the bottom 1% -- and nearly all of it is because of shitty personal choices in your own control.
Instead of claiming to represent everyone except the top 1%, let's recognize this de facto "Occupy Slog" group for who they are. Freeloaders, weepy-eyed utopians, and cop-baiting malcontents fringing on the middle 80%, wanting someone else to pay for their drum circle habit.
35
@24: Well it's pretty apparent that you certainly don’t, so what do you suggest be done in addition to protests? Personally I like the credit union idea. It’s a small thing, but it’s a start. If I can get a mortgage re fi at BECU as well, then I’ll be free entirely of those bastards that laid me off, which adds a nice personal touch for me.
37
@28
Yeah… Laugh, but when they started locking up the WTO protesters several of them actually did complain because all they got were baloney sandwiches in the lockup. They said their rights had been violated because their vegetarianism wasn't being respected.
Really made the “movement” look credible… I believe they likened being served only meat sandwiches to cruel and unusual punishment and torture at the time.
Yeah… Laugh, but when they started locking up the WTO protesters several of them actually did complain because all they got were baloney sandwiches in the lockup. They said their rights had been violated because their vegetarianism wasn't being respected.
Really made the “movement” look credible… I believe they likened being served only meat sandwiches to cruel and unusual punishment and torture at the time.
38
@35 I suggest the credit union idea. I suggest people getting together and drafting another initiative for a state income tax. I suggest people putting their time and talent to work in areas that actually matter. Hell, go and plant trees or work for Habitat for Humanity for a day or something. If you have this much time on your hands, the things you could be doing that are better than being annoying in Westlake Center are innumerable.
39
@34: "If you've got all day to sit around, for weeks;"
So do nerds and movie or iphone camp-ins
"Can't manage a coherent statement due to miseducation or substance use;"
I'd say that they have issues with a coherent *narrative*, but most of them used proper English.
"Lost all your saving in a sucker bet on home finance; "
Yawn, most of the people fucked by the bubble weren't the flippers, or the poors. It was the American middle-class.
"Overextended yourself on student loans you don't want to pay;"
If this is a concern of yours, move to ban most for-profit universities like Phoenix and Kaplan.
"Of the political persuasion to have us all live in your communes by coercion."
Yawn, just another Tea Partier who has no clue what this form of populism means and substitutes "communism" in his head.
"In fact, you're the bottom 1% -- and nearly all of it is because of shitty personal choices in your own control. "
If you're going to be calling people uneducated, you should probably know something about the country you live in and what's going on around you.
You come off like some sort of bozo who thinks AM Talk Radio is reality.
So do nerds and movie or iphone camp-ins
"Can't manage a coherent statement due to miseducation or substance use;"
I'd say that they have issues with a coherent *narrative*, but most of them used proper English.
"Lost all your saving in a sucker bet on home finance; "
Yawn, most of the people fucked by the bubble weren't the flippers, or the poors. It was the American middle-class.
"Overextended yourself on student loans you don't want to pay;"
If this is a concern of yours, move to ban most for-profit universities like Phoenix and Kaplan.
"Of the political persuasion to have us all live in your communes by coercion."
Yawn, just another Tea Partier who has no clue what this form of populism means and substitutes "communism" in his head.
"In fact, you're the bottom 1% -- and nearly all of it is because of shitty personal choices in your own control. "
If you're going to be calling people uneducated, you should probably know something about the country you live in and what's going on around you.
You come off like some sort of bozo who thinks AM Talk Radio is reality.
41
Seven easy steps to move your money out of a Wall Street bank and into a credit union.
http://moveyourmoneyproject.org/how-move…
http://moveyourmoneyproject.org/how-move…
42
@15 "@This makes Mallahan not a shill . . . how?"
Because people could never prove that Mallahan was a corperate shill, they woudl cite no facts that back it up, just general assumptions. With McGinn, he's arresting corperate protesters right now. Actions speak much louder than words.
Because people could never prove that Mallahan was a corperate shill, they woudl cite no facts that back it up, just general assumptions. With McGinn, he's arresting corperate protesters right now. Actions speak much louder than words.
43
@37: "Really made the “movement” look credible… I believe they likened being served only meat sandwiches to cruel and unusual punishment and torture at the time."
How is that ridiculous? It doesn't have to taste good, it just has to meet their basic needs. Give them carrots, I can't believe that you're so incredibly insecure about yourself that lowly vegetarians make you feel uncomfortable.
How is that ridiculous? It doesn't have to taste good, it just has to meet their basic needs. Give them carrots, I can't believe that you're so incredibly insecure about yourself that lowly vegetarians make you feel uncomfortable.
46
@11, in addition to the credit union thing, you could, you know, VOTE. If everyone voted, the Republicans would barely exist and the Democrats could afford to take more liberal positions. But young people don't vote. 20% in the last election.
How many of the Occupy folks voted then, do you think? No, they're in the "do things this way because we want you to" camp.
How many of the Occupy folks voted then, do you think? No, they're in the "do things this way because we want you to" camp.
47
@42: Christ, his title at T-Mobile was "VP of Customer Delight" or some nonsense. That's almost Orwellian.
McGinn was a shill attorney, too, I'm not denying, but seriously, there are more than two sides to every fucking political decision. Just because McGinn's cops are arresting trespasser's doesn't make Mallahan a progressive.
McGinn was a shill attorney, too, I'm not denying, but seriously, there are more than two sides to every fucking political decision. Just because McGinn's cops are arresting trespasser's doesn't make Mallahan a progressive.
48
The commenters here really don't understand the concept of civil disobedience.
It's not getting arrested "for the symbolic sake of it". When you're staging a protest, the authorities come and cite some statute which allows them to remove you. In this case it's "you can protest out here in the rain, no problem, but you can't have shelter", but it could just as soon have been "no loitering in the park", or something equally misapplied. If everyone shrugs and moves on, that's not a protest, it's business as usual.
For those of you saying they should be doing something better like moving their money to a credit union... again, you misunderstand the idea of protesting. We are having this conversation about credit unions because a few hundred people went out in the rain and set up tents. That's how protesting makes works in a democracy; people express their political dissatisfaction publicly (i.e. annoyingly) and it impacts public opinion.
Also, given that these people are protesting economic imbalance and the role money plays in politics, suggesting that they vote with their dollar is obtuse.
It's not getting arrested "for the symbolic sake of it". When you're staging a protest, the authorities come and cite some statute which allows them to remove you. In this case it's "you can protest out here in the rain, no problem, but you can't have shelter", but it could just as soon have been "no loitering in the park", or something equally misapplied. If everyone shrugs and moves on, that's not a protest, it's business as usual.
For those of you saying they should be doing something better like moving their money to a credit union... again, you misunderstand the idea of protesting. We are having this conversation about credit unions because a few hundred people went out in the rain and set up tents. That's how protesting makes works in a democracy; people express their political dissatisfaction publicly (i.e. annoyingly) and it impacts public opinion.
Also, given that these people are protesting economic imbalance and the role money plays in politics, suggesting that they vote with their dollar is obtuse.
49
@43
No. I was just amused that their willingness to “suffer" for their cause included dressing up like sea turtles but ended at eating processed meat… Hardy Gandhi like. Ridiculous.
No. I was just amused that their willingness to “suffer" for their cause included dressing up like sea turtles but ended at eating processed meat… Hardy Gandhi like. Ridiculous.
51
I think the livestream reporter just said something about "paddy wagons" a few minutes ago. That's racist.
52
"A Livestream (with an annoying ad that ends after 30 seconds)"
Ha! The revolution WILL be televised (and brought to you by Big High Fructose Corn Syrup).
Ha! The revolution WILL be televised (and brought to you by Big High Fructose Corn Syrup).
54
@49: It's "cruel and unusual", whether you like the person or not. It's very easy to accommodate someone's dietary needs without getting expensive or worrying about flavor. Just get 'em a vegetarian-nutriloaf if you're concerned that they'll get something too tasty.
55
A work colleague and I just walked through the park. I think standoff is a bit of an exaggeration. The cops are grouped near the corner of 4th and Pike and seem to just be milling around and chatting with a few passerbys and protesters.
There is no chanting going on and the protesters are massed closer to Pine.
There is some tension in the air but I suppose that is to be expected. I am curious what will happen when the shops start closing.
There is no chanting going on and the protesters are massed closer to Pine.
There is some tension in the air but I suppose that is to be expected. I am curious what will happen when the shops start closing.
56
How many Teabaggers did we see getting dragged away by police? None. The police did nothing about them. It's only the left that gets the privilege of being arrested.
58
@56 A valid point. I haven't seen any more obnoxious behavior on the part of the Occupiers than I ever saw on the part of Tea Partiers either.
59
I don't think any teabaggers ever tried to "occupy" any place, either. That's the only reason the SPD turned out in the first place.
60
Fnarf@46. Who said I don't vote? I have only missed one election in the last 20 years, and it was a primary election with about two things on it. But you seem to think I am young (thank you). I don't think 50 counts as "young", but I'll defer to your wisdom.
61
@56: the teabaggers generally went back to motel 6 their motor home for a nap before the blue plate special.
they were also generally retired, so in essence, THEY HAD NO JOBS and could loiter around and protest all day. and be inarticulate and misdirected in their anger.
so fuck all you douchebags fronting for wall st. grifters and corporate tax dodgers.
they were also generally retired, so in essence, THEY HAD NO JOBS and could loiter around and protest all day. and be inarticulate and misdirected in their anger.
so fuck all you douchebags fronting for wall st. grifters and corporate tax dodgers.
63
love this one from @SuicideGirls
What a difference a few 100 miles makes. #OccupyLA the mayor's office bought protesters rain ponchos #OccupySeattle the arrests have begun
What a difference a few 100 miles makes. #OccupyLA the mayor's office bought protesters rain ponchos #OccupySeattle the arrests have begun
64
@54
But you see. That’s it. When you go to jail, you don’t get choices or accommodations. That’s part of why it’s a sacrifice to go to jail for a cause you believe in.
But you see. That’s it. When you go to jail, you don’t get choices or accommodations. That’s part of why it’s a sacrifice to go to jail for a cause you believe in.
66
@60, you vote. That's terrific. You're 50; that's great too. The vast majority of the protesters are young, and the vast majority of young people do not vote. The vast majority of protesters do not vote.
And the history of public protesting in the US for close to fifty years is the history of strengthening the thing you're protesting against. IT'S NOT REAL. It's not how change comes.
And the history of public protesting in the US for close to fifty years is the history of strengthening the thing you're protesting against. IT'S NOT REAL. It's not how change comes.
67
love this one from @SuicideGirls
What a difference a few 100 miles makes. #OccupyLA the mayor's office bought protesters rain ponchos #OccupySeattle the arrests have begun
What a difference a few 100 miles makes. #OccupyLA the mayor's office bought protesters rain ponchos #OccupySeattle the arrests have begun
69
@66 c'mon, if all us lefties and Democrats actually voted, it would kick off possibly a very literal civil war with the Rights going totally bonkers. They'd be hopelessly outnumbered.
Oh, to dream...
Oh, to dream...
70
@56: "How many Teabaggers did we see getting dragged away by police? None. The police did nothing about them. It's only the left that gets the privilege of being arrested."
You try getting 'em off their rascal scooters.
You try getting 'em off their rascal scooters.
71
UPDATE at 4:08 PM: Police have dismantled another tent, and now only one tent remains. Paul says, "That's the one with everyone ringing it—that one's going to be a real bitch."
If those protesters REALLY believed in their cause they would douse themselves in gasoline and light a match now.
The eyes of the world would be upon them, and Capitalism would be a thing of the past by November!
If those protesters REALLY believed in their cause they would douse themselves in gasoline and light a match now.
The eyes of the world would be upon them, and Capitalism would be a thing of the past by November!
72
@61
>so fuck all you douchebags fronting for wall st. grifters and corporate tax dodgers.
I'm not fronting for grifters or tax dodgers. I'm saying these protests are fucking stupid.
>so fuck all you douchebags fronting for wall st. grifters and corporate tax dodgers.
I'm not fronting for grifters or tax dodgers. I'm saying these protests are fucking stupid.
73
What law are they breaking by being in the park in the middle of the afternoon? I'm unclear on this.
75
@74
Yay for them, they have a message. Nobody important is listening. They could stand out there for the rest of the year chanting their message and waving their message around on cardboard signs. Nothing will change. It's a waste of time.
Yay for them, they have a message. Nobody important is listening. They could stand out there for the rest of the year chanting their message and waving their message around on cardboard signs. Nothing will change. It's a waste of time.
77
@75 You understand that there are 15,000 people marching in New York right now, right? And demonstrations in most major cities?
78
@75: "Nobody important is listening."
And that was the problem with Stewart's "Rally for Sanity". Sanity doesn't sell adverts.
And that was the problem with Stewart's "Rally for Sanity". Sanity doesn't sell adverts.
79
@71: "If those protesters REALLY believed in their cause they would douse themselves in gasoline and light a match now."
If you believe in anything, kill yourself and thus improve the world.
If you believe in anything, kill yourself and thus improve the world.
81
I love that line from the most recent update "As the cops backed slowly out of the crowd, they chanted, "Fuck the police! We don't want you here! Get out!"
I can just picture the cops chanting that as they backed slowly out of the crowd.
I can just picture the cops chanting that as they backed slowly out of the crowd.
82
Personally, as someone who completed some banking across the street from there today, I don't see how the protestors were much of a bother.
@76 for the It Starts Here win.
@76 for the It Starts Here win.
83
Martin Luther King Jr and the civil rights movement worked because they took action that mattered. Sit-ins, bus boycotts. They didn't spend their time making asses out of themselves. And they had an explicitly clear and simple message. Don't compare this clusterfuck to them.
84
@83 I was at the Reflecting Pool, @83.
You weren't.
You don't know what works unless your corporate masters tell you.
You weren't.
You don't know what works unless your corporate masters tell you.
86
If you keep jerking yourselves off and comparing yourselves to successful movements in the past without actually changing what you're doing to be more like those successful movements, you're not going to get anywhere.
87
@83, first you say Great, they have a message (75), then you say they don't (83). They *are* taking action; it's a protest. Exactly what would you like them to do?
And if you've got that figured out, why don't you go down there and suggest it?
And if you've got that figured out, why don't you go down there and suggest it?
88
You're quoting me sarcastically quoting you? This is getting down to some YouTube level of discourse.
89
Obama just identified the protesters as possible terrorists...he's sending in predator drones to "take care of them and create real change"
90
@39 undead ayn rand
Given the dinky participation in these "Occupy" affairs, this would hardly be considered "populism." Since they marginally represent a margin of society, perhaps it would be better described as "Marginalism." The importance of this event is distorted by the echo-chamber of Twitter and Facebook. This isn't a robust movement. It's inconsequential, low-grade public slothing, regurgitated by Twitter-dependent media dupes.
Not sure how you think the middle class got rooked by banks. Didn't they understand that houses go up and down in value? Did they not understand that the first letter of ARM is "adjustable"? If they didn't read the mortgage fine print, really who should? Didn't 100% LTV sound a little too good a deal? Was the 30-year low-interest capitalization of a vacation, inside a mortgage, really a smart way to fund some sun? Did they really think all those investment condos would be easy to flip?
And who gives a shit is a university is for-profit or non-profit? If YOU borrowed the money, YOU fucking owe it. (Hell, every top non-profit state university president makes a million bucks a year, so why would you be in such a hurry to compel repayment to them, and not UPhoenix?)
At what point should we stop expecting gov't to save you fucking dumbasses from the consequences of your own voluntary -- and seemingly, consistently shitty choices?
You can throw labels like Teabagger around all you want (I'm not one, incidentally) to try an marginalize the prevailing view in this country (evident by the ass-kicking you "regressives" are taking in the ballot box). But all this is going to do is lead to a downtown-Starbucks-window-breaking spree that further dislocates middle class Americans from any sense of understanding and sympathy for your endangered "American Dirtbag" species, (Hippius Uneducatus Dopus).
Go ahead and be angry at "the man." Just don't expect to find the resolute qualities of a good one looking back at you from the mirror.
More...
Given the dinky participation in these "Occupy" affairs, this would hardly be considered "populism." Since they marginally represent a margin of society, perhaps it would be better described as "Marginalism." The importance of this event is distorted by the echo-chamber of Twitter and Facebook. This isn't a robust movement. It's inconsequential, low-grade public slothing, regurgitated by Twitter-dependent media dupes.
Not sure how you think the middle class got rooked by banks. Didn't they understand that houses go up and down in value? Did they not understand that the first letter of ARM is "adjustable"? If they didn't read the mortgage fine print, really who should? Didn't 100% LTV sound a little too good a deal? Was the 30-year low-interest capitalization of a vacation, inside a mortgage, really a smart way to fund some sun? Did they really think all those investment condos would be easy to flip?
And who gives a shit is a university is for-profit or non-profit? If YOU borrowed the money, YOU fucking owe it. (Hell, every top non-profit state university president makes a million bucks a year, so why would you be in such a hurry to compel repayment to them, and not UPhoenix?)
At what point should we stop expecting gov't to save you fucking dumbasses from the consequences of your own voluntary -- and seemingly, consistently shitty choices?
You can throw labels like Teabagger around all you want (I'm not one, incidentally) to try an marginalize the prevailing view in this country (evident by the ass-kicking you "regressives" are taking in the ballot box). But all this is going to do is lead to a downtown-Starbucks-window-breaking spree that further dislocates middle class Americans from any sense of understanding and sympathy for your endangered "American Dirtbag" species, (Hippius Uneducatus Dopus).
Go ahead and be angry at "the man." Just don't expect to find the resolute qualities of a good one looking back at you from the mirror.
91
88, I told you what their message was: Bring accountability to corporations. I don't know what there is to be sarcastic about in that message.
Then you say that what they're doing is ineffective. I suggested that if you have a better idea of how to achieve their goals, head on down there.
Do you not agree with their goals? Can you not be arsed to do anything? Or is it just more entertaining to sit behind a screen and complain?
Then you say that what they're doing is ineffective. I suggested that if you have a better idea of how to achieve their goals, head on down there.
Do you not agree with their goals? Can you not be arsed to do anything? Or is it just more entertaining to sit behind a screen and complain?
92
@56 what were teabaggers to be arrested for exactly and on what occasion? What laws did they violate? Please be specific? I'm curious.
There were those nuts that openly carried firearms to town-hall meetings. But that was all legal in the states where that was done.
Teabaggers don't camp. They don't have to. they live in McMansions. They don't really march. They "rally" with permits and all that shit. They didn't DO civil disobedience. They were a purely establishment movement bought and paid for by corporate interests.
The entire POINT of the so-called Occupy Movement is to force the establishment into confrontation and that means arrests. They aren't going to accomplish shit without risking police confrontation and mass arrests. Now, if they play their cards right, the idea is this confrontation will garner them sympathy and swell their ranks. And it will get the power of numbers and then be an actual threat to the established order.
What did you think was suppose to happen?
The problem is it probably won't. At least not in Seattle. Not unless people are really committed to losing everything. The people down there have to be willing to lose everything they own. Or have nothing to lose to begin with. That is the only path to revolutionary change people think they want.
Only I don't believe they really want it.
There were those nuts that openly carried firearms to town-hall meetings. But that was all legal in the states where that was done.
Teabaggers don't camp. They don't have to. they live in McMansions. They don't really march. They "rally" with permits and all that shit. They didn't DO civil disobedience. They were a purely establishment movement bought and paid for by corporate interests.
The entire POINT of the so-called Occupy Movement is to force the establishment into confrontation and that means arrests. They aren't going to accomplish shit without risking police confrontation and mass arrests. Now, if they play their cards right, the idea is this confrontation will garner them sympathy and swell their ranks. And it will get the power of numbers and then be an actual threat to the established order.
What did you think was suppose to happen?
The problem is it probably won't. At least not in Seattle. Not unless people are really committed to losing everything. The people down there have to be willing to lose everything they own. Or have nothing to lose to begin with. That is the only path to revolutionary change people think they want.
Only I don't believe they really want it.
94
Tactics are only a small part of what makes movement like the Civil Rights movement successful. It's the participants level of commitment that matters more than anything. And if the government perceives them to be far too dangerous to NOT accede to.
The Civil Rights movement worked because the people committed to it had fucking nothing to lose. They were ALREADY completely disenfranchised and excluded for the political community. They kept going when they got fire hosed. They kept going after they had dogs set on them. They kept going when they got, lynched, shot, beaten and had their churches burned down. They would have torn this country apart if Civil Rights didn't pass.
None of that has happened to the 99%. At least not at the frequency it happened to black people pre-1969. Which was pretty fucking often.
This 99% thing is almost all spoiled college educated white people like me who have been the most coddled and privileged people in the history of humanity. We already had full participation (as full as it was gonna get) in the political system. Sure. That system is broken. But as long as the US was on top and money was flowing we all endured a broken system.
The fantasy is over. The US is no longer the last man standing after WWII. We are not exceptional and your degree is no better than some guy's from Guangdong. You don't automatically deserve a 3000 sq. ft. house, a car, and a 401k. Welcome back to planet earth. Where most people are poor and there's a tiny percentage of rich people with healthcare. It sucks. But it could be whole lot worse.
The so-called 99% still have long way to drop. They still benefit way too much even from a broken system. Give this economy another five years—it's not even close to hitting bottom —then maybe you'll either see serious change or total surrender. People won't have choice.
Credit card and College loan debt doesn't really motivate the average person to dedicate their lives to changing a system. Maybe a couple of weekends. But not their lives.
I'd love to be wrong. Please. Prove me wrong. I'd like to get ahead of hitting bottom. But historically societies just don't change until they hit bottom.
I'd love this thing to swell into a massive movement that rocks the system to change before the election. I really hope it scares the shit out of the conservative political establishment.
But will it?
More...
The Civil Rights movement worked because the people committed to it had fucking nothing to lose. They were ALREADY completely disenfranchised and excluded for the political community. They kept going when they got fire hosed. They kept going after they had dogs set on them. They kept going when they got, lynched, shot, beaten and had their churches burned down. They would have torn this country apart if Civil Rights didn't pass.
None of that has happened to the 99%. At least not at the frequency it happened to black people pre-1969. Which was pretty fucking often.
This 99% thing is almost all spoiled college educated white people like me who have been the most coddled and privileged people in the history of humanity. We already had full participation (as full as it was gonna get) in the political system. Sure. That system is broken. But as long as the US was on top and money was flowing we all endured a broken system.
The fantasy is over. The US is no longer the last man standing after WWII. We are not exceptional and your degree is no better than some guy's from Guangdong. You don't automatically deserve a 3000 sq. ft. house, a car, and a 401k. Welcome back to planet earth. Where most people are poor and there's a tiny percentage of rich people with healthcare. It sucks. But it could be whole lot worse.
The so-called 99% still have long way to drop. They still benefit way too much even from a broken system. Give this economy another five years—it's not even close to hitting bottom —then maybe you'll either see serious change or total surrender. People won't have choice.
Credit card and College loan debt doesn't really motivate the average person to dedicate their lives to changing a system. Maybe a couple of weekends. But not their lives.
I'd love to be wrong. Please. Prove me wrong. I'd like to get ahead of hitting bottom. But historically societies just don't change until they hit bottom.
I'd love this thing to swell into a massive movement that rocks the system to change before the election. I really hope it scares the shit out of the conservative political establishment.
But will it?
95
Ahh, McGinn, you one-termer. I'm positive the cops have better things to do. THIS is our much-stretched tax money at work?!!! Great, let's pay cops to enforce the deisres of the filthy-rich and repress the long-overdue anger over our shrinking piece of the proverbial pie.
Why. Did. I. Vote. For. McGinn?!
We should ALL spend some time at this protest. This Rich-people and cop's shit's got to stop!
Why. Did. I. Vote. For. McGinn?!
We should ALL spend some time at this protest. This Rich-people and cop's shit's got to stop!
96
People taking action, walking their talk, taking risks, getting the message out, trying to wake up the populace.....
And CHZA gettin' mad, madder, maddest....
Because.... ... ...?
And CHZA gettin' mad, madder, maddest....
Because.... ... ...?
98
If McGinn wasn't going to join the protest, the best thing he could do for them was have them arrested. I don't know if that was his thinking, but it's the truth.
99
@37
Like it or lump it, shabby treatment of WTO protestors wound up costing the Seattle of Seattle a butt-load of money. Treating protestors well saves your wallet and the city's budget.
Maybe you like the protestors, maybe you don't. But, this afternoon's action was pointless and wasted a bunch of money.
Like it or lump it, shabby treatment of WTO protestors wound up costing the Seattle of Seattle a butt-load of money. Treating protestors well saves your wallet and the city's budget.
Maybe you like the protestors, maybe you don't. But, this afternoon's action was pointless and wasted a bunch of money.
100
Harass us and we convert more to our cause.
Impede us and our message becomes ever more attract.
Arrest us and we grow stronger.
Impede us and our message becomes ever more attract.
Arrest us and we grow stronger.
101
@100
100% Seattle? You don't hang out much in Madison valley, magnolia, queen Anne, Ravenna, Mapleleaf, sunset hill, sandpoint, north beach or blue Ridge do you?
100% Seattle? You don't hang out much in Madison valley, magnolia, queen Anne, Ravenna, Mapleleaf, sunset hill, sandpoint, north beach or blue Ridge do you?
102
"The vast majority of young people", "most of the people protesting". Bah. You naysayers sure feel at liberty to speak for a lot of people. And these never-ending predictions of the future, such as "These won't change a thing", and "nobody is listening". Someone more foolish than I might think you actually knew what the hell you were talking about if you didn't revert back to the same old tired and weak stereotypes of anybody who has problems so severe they feel the need to demonstrate to stick up for themselves. Wake up, we're not young drum-circle-playing dread-locked trust-fund kids. It would also do for you to remember you are one narrow-minded person, so stop trying to speak for so many others. If you think protesting never changed anything, you skipped a fuckload of history classes and should probably go download a few history-themed podcasts or something. That way you won't have to pick up a book. Then again, you would have to shut up and listen for a bit, which I don't see happening.
And what makes you think anybody is listening to your hateful mockery? Go kiss some more corporate ass, and leave us the hell alone. Our problems will not be reduced by listening to you, and who the fuck would take advice from a bunch of hateful empty-headed shills like yourselves anyway.
And what makes you think anybody is listening to your hateful mockery? Go kiss some more corporate ass, and leave us the hell alone. Our problems will not be reduced by listening to you, and who the fuck would take advice from a bunch of hateful empty-headed shills like yourselves anyway.
103
In LA the mayor is giving their protesters ponchos, and in SF council members are coming down to show support (even if the police are circling in as we speak). Seattle has a fraction of these people out protesting (what is it about Seattle that makes everyone so cynical?) and more arrests.
McGinn is gonna lose the last of his support over this.
McGinn is gonna lose the last of his support over this.
104
@47 "Christ, his title at T-Mobile was "VP of Customer Delight" or some nonsense. That's almost Orwellian."
T-Mobile consistently earns top honors for customer service. It would appear that his job was to improve customer service at T-Mobile and alot of that is understanding the needs of the customer, similar to how a political will try to understand the needs of he voter. I dont know how anyone can call that orwellian.
T-Mobile consistently earns top honors for customer service. It would appear that his job was to improve customer service at T-Mobile and alot of that is understanding the needs of the customer, similar to how a political will try to understand the needs of he voter. I dont know how anyone can call that orwellian.
105
@101: Yeah, "Seattle" is not a monoculture, and plenty of regressive idiots are in tech or aeronautics and while they live out in the suburbs, consider themselves "Seattlites".
@104: I have no beef against T-Mobile, but you have to admit, it sounds like newspeak.
@104: I have no beef against T-Mobile, but you have to admit, it sounds like newspeak.
107
@75 and also @Fnarf. That comment is telling. "Nobody important is listening." The protests are a physical space for a common discussion. I believe that the whole point is that we're fed up with a system that doesn't represent us, because the "important" people have ignored our common needs for the last 40 years, so fuck 'em, we'll have our own conversation. If they don't want to be a part of it, they don't have to. But they're not so important, because, as we've pointed out, they are the 1%, and there are many many more of us.
You know why, at 26, I didn't vote in the last election? No one represented me. Fnarf, you sound like an old-ass entitled boomer who thinks that the system is functional and legitimately serves the needs of the people, the way Mummy and Daddums told them it did in the 1950s. I don't know about Occupy Seattle, but at Occupy Wall Street, they're conducting an experiment in real participative democracy, not the representative democratic system that's been failing us for half a century.
Stay at home and bitch on the threads, but you're still talking about the protests. So whether you agree with them or not, whether you think they're stupid or brilliant, we still have you doing exactly what we want you to be doing - talking about it, and talking about ways to change the system. The difference is that the Occupiers are truly participating in the conversation and building a community, while you guys are hiding behind your computer screens. Guess who I have more respect for?
Heading out to #occupychi. Later, bitches. Have fun on teh internetz.
You know why, at 26, I didn't vote in the last election? No one represented me. Fnarf, you sound like an old-ass entitled boomer who thinks that the system is functional and legitimately serves the needs of the people, the way Mummy and Daddums told them it did in the 1950s. I don't know about Occupy Seattle, but at Occupy Wall Street, they're conducting an experiment in real participative democracy, not the representative democratic system that's been failing us for half a century.
Stay at home and bitch on the threads, but you're still talking about the protests. So whether you agree with them or not, whether you think they're stupid or brilliant, we still have you doing exactly what we want you to be doing - talking about it, and talking about ways to change the system. The difference is that the Occupiers are truly participating in the conversation and building a community, while you guys are hiding behind your computer screens. Guess who I have more respect for?
Heading out to #occupychi. Later, bitches. Have fun on teh internetz.
108
I just hope they don't fuck up traffic tomorrow night so my friend and I can get to the Sounders game.
109
@kittenkoder people shouldn't be arrested for non violent protest just because they have a tent and sleeping bag.Have you ever been homeless? Do you even know what its like? Bigger question do you even care? After looking at your bio one can tell you come from an upper class family. What I find humorous is your ignorance, but then again you can't help it you just don't know any better. So have fun in your little plastic world till it all falls apart.
110
@kittenkoder after reading your posts it's pretty obvious are so thourougly indictrinated into the mainstream dominant society narrative you don't know where you begin and it ends. I'm particularly amused by your references to voting. How quaint. We haven't had a functioning electoral system in this country for quite some time. Your snide and false superior attitude are akin to whistling past the graveyard. The bottom is about to drop out of this economy in the not too distant future. You'd better get busy working on your people skills and learn to grow some food while you are at it. The people you are critical of now are the ones who will save you when the shit hits the fan next spring. You will soon learn it It pays to be friendly.
111
One of you asks, "why does protesting require a tent? ". Well fat cat, i'm glad you asked.
For the same reason, you sleep in a big bed, in a heated and air conditioned expensive comfortable residence.
The protestors need a place to sleep. But your ass-holish thinking, is exactly like "let them eat cake". Or you would say, "let them rent $300/day rooms at the hilton"
I hope this revolution, gets a desire to meed out justice like the french revolution.
Equity, Liberty, Fraternity and executions (all legal like, like the way you fat cats do it)
For the same reason, you sleep in a big bed, in a heated and air conditioned expensive comfortable residence.
The protestors need a place to sleep. But your ass-holish thinking, is exactly like "let them eat cake". Or you would say, "let them rent $300/day rooms at the hilton"
I hope this revolution, gets a desire to meed out justice like the french revolution.
Equity, Liberty, Fraternity and executions (all legal like, like the way you fat cats do it)
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