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News & ArtsTuesday, October 4, 2011
Transportation / Tech / Science Consumer Reports Recommends the Chevy Volt
Posted by Jonathan Golob on Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 8:33 PM
Consumer Reports doesn't recommend too many American cars. The Chevy Volt got the nod in the most recent set of reviews.
The Volt has an unique design—a purely electric car for the first thirty five miles of driving, after which a gasoline-powered motor drives an electric generator and extends the total range to over three hundred miles.
A traditional hybrid—like the Toyota Prius—will always beat such a system for long drives. But, most people use their cars for short trips, trips that total less than the 35 miles the Volt can offer on a pure electric drive mode. Consumer Reports notes this in their review.
Running on electricity alone, the Volt cost about 4 cents per mile at national-average electric rates, much less than it would take to fuel any gas-powered car. But your actual cost will depend on your electric rates, which vary greatly from state to state. Driving on the highway also diminishes the battery's range; we got our longest ranges on rural roads at around 45 mph. The Volt is amazingly inexpensive to run on short trips, but when the gas engine kicks in and trips reach around 70 miles, traditional hybrids catch up.
I'm rather skeptical of the environmental bona fides of hybrid cars. Liquid fuels are intrinsically more efficient at storing and transporting energy. The Volt's design takes advantage of the best batteries and gasoline can offer: the former short range efficiency, the latter energy density.
1
"A traditional hybrid—like the Toyota Prius—will always beat such a system for long drives."
Thank you for the pronouncement, Pope Golob. I shall store that on the floppy disc that keep next to my BetaMax ;-)
Thank you for the pronouncement, Pope Golob. I shall store that on the floppy disc that keep next to my BetaMax ;-)
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I hope GM hangs in there with the Chevy Volt. Wired says sales haven't matched GM's optimistic projections quite yet. Last month GM sold 723 Volts compared to 5,200 Suburbans. Nissan sold a bit over a thousand of its Leafs (Leaves?).
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If you want to be the guy stuck with an 8-track player, go ahead and by a battery car.
Air Liquide’s Potier Says Car Fuel Cells to Boost Hydrogen Sales
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-10…
Air Liquide’s Potier Says Car Fuel Cells to Boost Hydrogen Sales
Air Liquide SA Chief Executive Officer Benoit Potier said demand for hydrogen used in fuel cells will probably rise as carmakers such as Daimler AG and Toyota Motor Corp. introduce models powered by the technology.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-10…
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"A traditional hybrid—like the Toyota Prius—will always beat such a system for long drives."
I don't think that's true. Since the gas engine drives an electric generator, *not* the wheels directly, the Volt should always be more efficient. It's immune to quick starts and stops: built-in hypermiling. It seems to be a system that's even better than plug-in hybrids.
I don't think that's true. Since the gas engine drives an electric generator, *not* the wheels directly, the Volt should always be more efficient. It's immune to quick starts and stops: built-in hypermiling. It seems to be a system that's even better than plug-in hybrids.
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I am curious why they didn't incorporate a diesel engine instead of a gasoline operated one. Diesel is far more efficent to gasoline, and I suspect it is likely due to the higher costs associated with the manufacturing of diesel powered engines. I suppose the bean-counters at GM couldn't stomach it...perhaps like what happened to the very light weight aluminum 215 ci V8 Buick developed in the early 60's. GM accounting killed it.
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I'd be more confident putting my money on a proven technology that can be easily added to the existing infrastructure than buying another gas guzzler or hybrid until the hydrogen fuel cars--with their more radical requisite changes--finally get here. How many decades have we been waiting on the fulfillment of the promise that hydrogen is "nearly here?"
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It's like an old school World War 2 submarine. Run above water at night on diesel (air intake required) and below the water on electric during the day so you won't be spotted.
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I was in a seminar a few weeks back where one of the attendees was advocating for using windmills to produce hydrogen rather than electricity. I was only half listening, because it was way over my head, and I really needed to powder my nose, but others in the room seemed rather taken by the idea.
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@6, you set off towards California and tell me how far you get before your batteries are dry. Then tell me how long you waited to charge up. And again. And again. You're using your frankly pretty crappy gas engine after that. Battery cars are completely useless for long trips.
There's also the matter of cost. The Volt costs as much as a fancy luxury model, not the kinds of cars it's up against. It's basically a status symbol.
As always, I will point out that any ONE car, no matter how efficient, is worthless; what matters is whether you can produce a million, or a hundred million, of them. I curious what happens when the world's lithium supplies all get scooped out of the ground.
While electrics make sense for around town, and I would buy one if a decent one existed here (like the Smart electric, which isn't being sold in the US), I'm also waiting for the next wave of small, efficient gas or diesel city cars to be legalized here, if they ever will be. The Scion IQ is a step in the right direction; 37 MPG city isn't bad, and better than a Mini, Smart or Fiat 500, though the highway mileage is worse than those cars. There's a whole array of 50-60 MPG cars available in other countries that you can't get here, mostly because the car companies are convinced that fat Americans will never buy them.
There's also the matter of cost. The Volt costs as much as a fancy luxury model, not the kinds of cars it's up against. It's basically a status symbol.
As always, I will point out that any ONE car, no matter how efficient, is worthless; what matters is whether you can produce a million, or a hundred million, of them. I curious what happens when the world's lithium supplies all get scooped out of the ground.
While electrics make sense for around town, and I would buy one if a decent one existed here (like the Smart electric, which isn't being sold in the US), I'm also waiting for the next wave of small, efficient gas or diesel city cars to be legalized here, if they ever will be. The Scion IQ is a step in the right direction; 37 MPG city isn't bad, and better than a Mini, Smart or Fiat 500, though the highway mileage is worse than those cars. There's a whole array of 50-60 MPG cars available in other countries that you can't get here, mostly because the car companies are convinced that fat Americans will never buy them.
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I drove a Volt at a Ride n' Drive during an auto show here. I mostly did it just to see what it was like. And within 15 seconds after starting to drive it, all I could say was "Wow". It's responsive, feels really solid, and just felt like they got it "right". I could really see myself driving something with this technology. And I was expecting that it really was going to be all hype and not worth all the press attention it's been getting.
Would I buy one? At $37K+ even after tax breaks, it's still out of my price range, and that lease isn't compatible with my 18K/year commuting mileage. My apartment building doesn't have available plug-ins in the garage, so there wouldn't be a benefit to me in that electricity-area.. and that's sort of the whole point of the way it is designed. But I came away from the drive hoping that they succeed with this, and get it into different vehicle types and price ranges. I'd take this over a Prius or Leaf any day. It just made so much sense after driving it.
Would I buy one? At $37K+ even after tax breaks, it's still out of my price range, and that lease isn't compatible with my 18K/year commuting mileage. My apartment building doesn't have available plug-ins in the garage, so there wouldn't be a benefit to me in that electricity-area.. and that's sort of the whole point of the way it is designed. But I came away from the drive hoping that they succeed with this, and get it into different vehicle types and price ranges. I'd take this over a Prius or Leaf any day. It just made so much sense after driving it.
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Fnarf dear, the DC fast chargers that the Japanese have developed are really quite interesting. They take an amazing amount of energy (40-60kw) at 480v, and can supposedly charge a car in 20-30 minutes. Partner that with the new Teslas that I've heard tell are supposed to get 300 miles on a charge, and it sounds quite promising. We're supposed to be getting three of those DC chargers in the Puget Sound region as part of the big grant program, so we'll see how well that holds up in real life.
I haven't had the chance to drive a Volt yet, but the Leaf is really quite a nice car. But pricey.
I think in the long run EV's have a lot of promise for around town travel, and would be good for someone like me who would rather slit her wrists than embark on a long car trip. Fleets are already seeing the appeal of them in terms of fuel expense, but I agree it would take a pretty big shift in the American mindset for widespread adaptation.
I'm just happy to see some thinking outside the box by industry.
I haven't had the chance to drive a Volt yet, but the Leaf is really quite a nice car. But pricey.
I think in the long run EV's have a lot of promise for around town travel, and would be good for someone like me who would rather slit her wrists than embark on a long car trip. Fleets are already seeing the appeal of them in terms of fuel expense, but I agree it would take a pretty big shift in the American mindset for widespread adaptation.
I'm just happy to see some thinking outside the box by industry.
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I really don't see the problem. You take short stop and go: volt, long stop&go: hybrid, long freeway: gas or diesel. All three can take you on short trips more efficiently than older cars and long trips more efficienly than older cars. All have anywhere from decent to exceptional range. Aside from admittedly stiff upfront costs, what's not to like here?
Until very recently electrics were mostly overbuilt golf carts.
I'm very happy at the engineering progress and somewhat happy about the economies of scale kicking in and I love some of GMs talent is going to something this clever rather than changing the bracket on the headlight bezel of the Impala.
Until very recently electrics were mostly overbuilt golf carts.
I'm very happy at the engineering progress and somewhat happy about the economies of scale kicking in and I love some of GMs talent is going to something this clever rather than changing the bracket on the headlight bezel of the Impala.
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Well the first flat screen TVs went for roughly $10k and were a lot thicker than the models we see today. Now I can get a lovely Samsung 32" super flatscreen at Best Buy for roughly $400.
Let the early adopters smooth out the kinks and let GM keep honing the Volt. We're never going to realize our dream of more sustainable automobiles if we keep killing each iteration simply because they haven't reached perfection yet.
Let the early adopters smooth out the kinks and let GM keep honing the Volt. We're never going to realize our dream of more sustainable automobiles if we keep killing each iteration simply because they haven't reached perfection yet.
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Just give me my CAR. I don't care what powers it. BUT don't make me change my American life style of driving everywhere, in my private car.
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i have no opinion about the Chevy Volt ...but Consumer Reports should stick to what it does best - i.e., reviewing toaster ovens & ironing boards.
For real reviews about cars, check out Car & Driver and Road & Track.
For real reviews about cars, check out Car & Driver and Road & Track.
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Don't be confused by the fact that early adopters of cutting edge technology pay a high price. That's not the same thing as saying that the new gizmo is impractical.
When CD players first arrived in stores they cost more than my car at the time.
When CD players first arrived in stores they cost more than my car at the time.
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17, FWIW, the Volt Motor Trends Car of the Year for 2011. I only know that because Rush Limbaugh lost his mind over it for a few weeks.
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Ken dear, I don't know if he hates all electric cars, but he's not fond of the Volt
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/…
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/…
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@11, the vast majority of driving in America is well under the 35 mile range of the Volt battery. Most cars never drive more than 100 miles per trip in their life. People have this idea that they desperately need a gas car that will give them their 300 miles per tank (at 25MPG) yet they will only ever drive the 10 miles to work, 5 miles to the grocery store, 3 miles to the bar, etc. For the relative few (myself included) who like a good road trip or drive a lot for work there's no shortage of gas cars on the market.
Also, since most households these days have more than 1 car they can still have their "road trip" vehicle which will never go on a road trip and still have a Volt for the driving around town that makes up 100% of their driving anyway.
Personally, I hope they don't stop making it just because most people can't afford it now and I really hope they can bring the price down before my fiancee's car dies so we can get one.
Also, since most households these days have more than 1 car they can still have their "road trip" vehicle which will never go on a road trip and still have a Volt for the driving around town that makes up 100% of their driving anyway.
Personally, I hope they don't stop making it just because most people can't afford it now and I really hope they can bring the price down before my fiancee's car dies so we can get one.
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@22 I think your wrong. I know plenty of people who commute 40-50 miles to and from work every day. I think most people drive over 100 miles at a time once in a while. I hate cars, but end up driving 300-400 miles in a day maybe 4 or 5 times a year.
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@23, I also know people who commute that far but that doesn't change the fact that, thankfully, most people don't. You may be right that most people do, on rare occasions, drive over 100 miles. Since the Volt has that gas backup it gets well over 300 miles per tank though so this would still be plenty for almost all drivers. Especially since, like their current car, they could still refill the tank.
Range is still a bad argument against the Volt. Considering 90% of most people's driving would be done on electric only at a few cents per mile and the rare road trips may not give you the highest mileage on the market but pretty damn close.
Range is still a bad argument against the Volt. Considering 90% of most people's driving would be done on electric only at a few cents per mile and the rare road trips may not give you the highest mileage on the market but pretty damn close.
25
The Volt isn't unique, it's just the best known. The Fisker Karma and the Renault Elect'road also have electric motors driving the wheels with a range extending gas engine that functions solely as a generator (and the Elect'road predates the Volt). The upcoming Audi A1 e-tron uses the same drivetrain design. Diesel-electric locomotives have used the drivetrain design for years. In addition, the plug-in hybrids like the plug-in Prius and the BYD F3DM both have a similar drivetrain design - primary power is from the batteries charged via an outlet. In the case of plug-in hybrids, though, there is usually a direct connection between the gas engine and the wheels.
26
A few notes from a car nut and mechanical engineer.
-The Volt is expensive, but as has been noted here, is totally sufficient to replace a normal gas or hybrid car. No range limitations.
-The best charging option readily available is 240v service, which has to be installed specially, but 120v will really do a decent job for the Volt.
-The Leaf, which is a great electric car, is necessarily a 'second car'. This is fine, most family have two cars, and I think the sales of the Leaf have shown the pure electric car to be a compromise a lot of people are interested in.
-Fuel cell cars are further off public availability than electrics by a long shot. Using wind turbines to make hydrogen isn't a bad idea, people have been looking at any number of ways to store power from wind turbines, which is necessarily produced at uncontrolled volumes and times.
-Consumer Reports is a very important motoring opinion. They tend to be the most and perhaps only practical, if boring, car journalist, and are the only motoring journalists completely free from advertising, not that advertising seems to influence the majors too much.
-By all accounts, the electric smart car is absolutely brutal. Dangerously slow, despite ditching the normal awful Smart car transmission, and handles as badly as the other Smart cars. If at all possible, get a Leaf instead. It is better in every measurable way, other than ease of parking.
-High mileage foreign car offerings aren't brought over for a variety of reasons. Those cars tend to be very, very, very slow, aren't directly comparable in mileage since they aren't EPA tested (foreign mileage testing is not as rigorous and often even uses the bigger UK gallon), and the foreign diesels often can't meet US/CAFE emissions standards. Still, more car companies are bringing small, efficient cars here-the Fit, Fiesta, Mazda 2, Fiat 500, diesel Jettas, diesel SUVs from Jeep, BMW and VW, even a diesel BMW 335.
More...
-The Volt is expensive, but as has been noted here, is totally sufficient to replace a normal gas or hybrid car. No range limitations.
-The best charging option readily available is 240v service, which has to be installed specially, but 120v will really do a decent job for the Volt.
-The Leaf, which is a great electric car, is necessarily a 'second car'. This is fine, most family have two cars, and I think the sales of the Leaf have shown the pure electric car to be a compromise a lot of people are interested in.
-Fuel cell cars are further off public availability than electrics by a long shot. Using wind turbines to make hydrogen isn't a bad idea, people have been looking at any number of ways to store power from wind turbines, which is necessarily produced at uncontrolled volumes and times.
-Consumer Reports is a very important motoring opinion. They tend to be the most and perhaps only practical, if boring, car journalist, and are the only motoring journalists completely free from advertising, not that advertising seems to influence the majors too much.
-By all accounts, the electric smart car is absolutely brutal. Dangerously slow, despite ditching the normal awful Smart car transmission, and handles as badly as the other Smart cars. If at all possible, get a Leaf instead. It is better in every measurable way, other than ease of parking.
-High mileage foreign car offerings aren't brought over for a variety of reasons. Those cars tend to be very, very, very slow, aren't directly comparable in mileage since they aren't EPA tested (foreign mileage testing is not as rigorous and often even uses the bigger UK gallon), and the foreign diesels often can't meet US/CAFE emissions standards. Still, more car companies are bringing small, efficient cars here-the Fit, Fiesta, Mazda 2, Fiat 500, diesel Jettas, diesel SUVs from Jeep, BMW and VW, even a diesel BMW 335.
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@25
The Volt is unique for its numerous drivetrain configurations (I think it has 4 or 5 setups based on power demands, battery power and vehicle speed), and it is currently produced and sold in the US, unlike the Audi, BYD, Fisker, or Renault.
The Volt's gas engine isn't just a range extending generator, despite the marketing department's statements. The engineers found the car was more efficient if it did indeed directly or partially drive the wheels with the gasoline engine in certain conditions.
Insideline did a good analysis of the chevy volt's operation modes.
http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/volt…
The Volt is unique for its numerous drivetrain configurations (I think it has 4 or 5 setups based on power demands, battery power and vehicle speed), and it is currently produced and sold in the US, unlike the Audi, BYD, Fisker, or Renault.
The Volt's gas engine isn't just a range extending generator, despite the marketing department's statements. The engineers found the car was more efficient if it did indeed directly or partially drive the wheels with the gasoline engine in certain conditions.
Insideline did a good analysis of the chevy volt's operation modes.
http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/volt…
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Why would anyone need a car that goes further than the Tulips, the Ski Hills, and Puget Sound?
You can always get a quick rental for longer trips.
You can always get a quick rental for longer trips.
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Will-
I understand the sentiment, but I wonder how many Leafs are owned as a the sole household vehicle. I think people will continue to want a vehicle that can drive them as far as they want to go, and a pure electric vehicle will remain an excellent commuting/short range second vehicle.
I understand the sentiment, but I wonder how many Leafs are owned as a the sole household vehicle. I think people will continue to want a vehicle that can drive them as far as they want to go, and a pure electric vehicle will remain an excellent commuting/short range second vehicle.
30
@4 There are two problems with hydrogen-fueled fuel-cell cars. Two pretty important problems.
a) There is no hydrogen lying around. That is, pure hydrogen as a fuel pretty much doesn't exist. It has to be made by converting another fuel into it, like burning coal (or uranium nucleii) to make electricity and electrolyzing water to split it into hydrogen and oxygen. Or, catalyzing methane to tear out and discard the carbon (into the air, natch).
b) Hydrogen is a crappy fuel to try to transport. It weighs nothing in gaseous form, and even at 3000 psi you'd need hundreds of pounds of metal tanks to hold a fraction of the energy a liquid would provide. You can liquify hydrogen, but that's such a bad idea for a car it's not funny, and it's still kinda light (i.e. low energy per volume). And, you have to vent the tank to keep it liquified. Basically, a liquid-hydrogen-fueled car is a fire bomb in search of a match.
a) There is no hydrogen lying around. That is, pure hydrogen as a fuel pretty much doesn't exist. It has to be made by converting another fuel into it, like burning coal (or uranium nucleii) to make electricity and electrolyzing water to split it into hydrogen and oxygen. Or, catalyzing methane to tear out and discard the carbon (into the air, natch).
b) Hydrogen is a crappy fuel to try to transport. It weighs nothing in gaseous form, and even at 3000 psi you'd need hundreds of pounds of metal tanks to hold a fraction of the energy a liquid would provide. You can liquify hydrogen, but that's such a bad idea for a car it's not funny, and it's still kinda light (i.e. low energy per volume). And, you have to vent the tank to keep it liquified. Basically, a liquid-hydrogen-fueled car is a fire bomb in search of a match.
31
I want one. As a 2-car family, we will always have a second gas vehicle for long road trip with the 3 dogs. But I'd love to have a Volt for my 7 mile (one-way) commute, on those days I can't bike in. (and for our other mostly in-town driving).
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