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News & ArtsFriday, September 30, 2011
Politics / Economy "We Are the 99 Percent"
Posted by Paul Constant on Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 4:27 PM
If you're not paying attention by now, maybe this blog will help you put a face on the Occupy Wall Street protests.
We are the 99 percent. We are getting kicked out of our homes. We are forced to choose between groceries and rent. We are denied quality medical care. We are suffering from environmental pollution. We are working long hours for little pay and no rights, if we're working at all. We are getting nothing while the other 1 percent is getting everything. We are the 99 percent.
Brought to you by the people who occupy wall street. Why will YOU occupy?
To repeat: Seattle-based Occupy information can be found here and here. I know it's easy to snark about this sort of thing because it seems kind of amorphous and rudderless and full of flakes, but dammit, this is important for one simple reason: If the right wing can come out with pitchforks and teabags stapled to some hand-painted signs, by Jesus the left had better be willing to make a stink, too.
I've attended a couple of teabagger rallies, including the very first one to take place in Seattle, and I can tell you that they did not ever have a coherent message. But they were heard. If progressives in cities like Seattle just sit around and bitch about how there's no strategy or coherent plan for these protests, nothing will get done. The media has started, reluctantly, to pay attention to these protests, which means that if this just fizzles out, it'll look like liberals don't care. Every conservative blog will make hay out of the fact that we don't care enough about our issues to actually do something. They'll say we don't exist, that it's a bunch of fringe hippies and Hollyweird libtards raging against the conservative will of the people. That's not the case. I believe the majority of Americans want health care for themselves and their neighbors and regulations to protect the common good. I think these protests are an opportunity to refute the myth of the teabaggers. The only problem is that we need to stop fucking complaining and start fucking doing something.
1
Yes! Get off your asses and start something important. The future depends on it. This is our moment. We've been bullied and robbed. Stand up.
3
I do love the fantasy that those of us on the top15-20%, with family incomes over $150K a year, maybe $250k + of assets, plus equity in our homes, inheritances etc. will side with the 50% who will pick our pockets next.
I guess making it 'we are the top 80%' would have eliminated many of these white kids with college degrees, masters degrees, Macs and inheritances.
I don't think the working man hears this nonsense.
I guess making it 'we are the top 80%' would have eliminated many of these white kids with college degrees, masters degrees, Macs and inheritances.
I don't think the working man hears this nonsense.
6
Ron Paul sucks! Bachmann sucks! Perry sucks! Santorum sucks! Teabaggers suck!......the point being you have to whine and whine and whine like Paul. So like he says, "Stop Complaining."
7
@5 thanks for the laugh. We've heard the threats of the bottom 50% forever. Too bad American Idol keeps them busy.
The only system failing apart now is the European nanny state. As an actual europen, I say thank god.
The only system failing apart now is the European nanny state. As an actual europen, I say thank god.
8
Not that I don't support the cause, but 99%? I thought only 2% of homes were getting forclosed on?
9
@3,
You are not part of the top 20%. Try the top 5%. Thanks for playing, moron.
@8,
They're referring to everyone not in the top 1% of earners. It's a little hyperbolic, to say the least, since there are plenty of people in the middle classes who are doing okay (my boyfriend and I included), but hyperbole is hardly unusual in political protests.
You are not part of the top 20%. Try the top 5%. Thanks for playing, moron.
@8,
They're referring to everyone not in the top 1% of earners. It's a little hyperbolic, to say the least, since there are plenty of people in the middle classes who are doing okay (my boyfriend and I included), but hyperbole is hardly unusual in political protests.
10
@8 apparently if you make $200 k a year and have a $750k home, you have much in common with that moron making your lattes every morning.
11
At 8 - did a quick google of "percentage foreclosed homes 2011" and the 2nd hit was this NPR story:
Foreclosures made up roughly one-third of all home sales this spring. While that's a smaller share of sales from the previous quarter, it's six times the percentage of foreclosures in a healthy housing market. Meanwhile, fixed mortgage rates edged up this week from their lowest levels in decades.
http://www.npr.org/2011/08/25/139941458/…
Every new house that goes on the market means a depressed value for all the other owners around it. There are a few on my block. Google maps used to have a real estate feature, you could see all the homes in some stage of foreclosure, it was scary.
In Washington state it takes about 300 days of not paying your mortgage before the banks bat and eye. In states like Nevada and Florida it takes a lot longer.
Foreclosures made up roughly one-third of all home sales this spring. While that's a smaller share of sales from the previous quarter, it's six times the percentage of foreclosures in a healthy housing market. Meanwhile, fixed mortgage rates edged up this week from their lowest levels in decades.
http://www.npr.org/2011/08/25/139941458/…
Every new house that goes on the market means a depressed value for all the other owners around it. There are a few on my block. Google maps used to have a real estate feature, you could see all the homes in some stage of foreclosure, it was scary.
In Washington state it takes about 300 days of not paying your mortgage before the banks bat and eye. In states like Nevada and Florida it takes a lot longer.
12
"Try the top 5%. Thanks for playing, moron."
I was being humble. Still not sure why I should side with the bottom 50%? my family's done just fine the past 30 years. 2008 knocked the holidaying down a bit, but it's back this year!
I was being humble. Still not sure why I should side with the bottom 50%? my family's done just fine the past 30 years. 2008 knocked the holidaying down a bit, but it's back this year!
13
Or you could go to your local Legislative District meeting and get involved. I don't see what hanging out wit ha bunch of troofers and idiots in masks is going to do. Sure it might get more media attention, but is that really a good thing given the make up of these protests?
Someone objected in the last thread to me saying the teabaggers were more polished as though the fact that they have good PR is something to dismiss. Whine all you want, but effective is effective and a bunch of oddly dressed kids sitting in a park with random signs is not effective, never has been.
We don't need shit like this, we need more people working in the system to effect change.
Someone objected in the last thread to me saying the teabaggers were more polished as though the fact that they have good PR is something to dismiss. Whine all you want, but effective is effective and a bunch of oddly dressed kids sitting in a park with random signs is not effective, never has been.
We don't need shit like this, we need more people working in the system to effect change.
15
Nah, the police love the Tea Party, cut those evil social programs to pay the cops to stomp the rest of us.
Yay!
/sarcasm
Yay!
/sarcasm
16
I realize you're probably just pumped up about this because you (correctly) believe an invigorated left will help Obama's re-election chances, but I don't mind this time, Paul.
17
Giffy, if you pay attention you'll notice that these are bright and articulate people. They voice their concerns coherently and with passion. Teabaggers did not have better PR, they had better coverage by mainstream media controlled by corporate concerns.
I began watching the livestream of this event on Sept 18. There were hundreds of people occupying the park by then. Police had fenced off and manned the financial district, banned voice amplification, forced removal of protest signs and were patrolling the park in force. There was no mainstream media coverage of what was already a significant event. The entire event was streaming live on the internet from the beginning.
PR for Occupy Wall Street was excellent. Notice was given. It was ignored by the media until police brutality posted on youtube and a growing public awareness and support finally forced a response.
Denigrate this movement and the efforts and sacrifices the protestors have made so far; and the efforts others will make in cities around the country, including Seattle - but, remember that they are all fighting for your benefit as well.
I began watching the livestream of this event on Sept 18. There were hundreds of people occupying the park by then. Police had fenced off and manned the financial district, banned voice amplification, forced removal of protest signs and were patrolling the park in force. There was no mainstream media coverage of what was already a significant event. The entire event was streaming live on the internet from the beginning.
PR for Occupy Wall Street was excellent. Notice was given. It was ignored by the media until police brutality posted on youtube and a growing public awareness and support finally forced a response.
Denigrate this movement and the efforts and sacrifices the protestors have made so far; and the efforts others will make in cities around the country, including Seattle - but, remember that they are all fighting for your benefit as well.
18
Giffy, pay attention and you'll notice bright and articulate people voicing their concerns coherently and with passion. Teabaggers didn't have better PR, they had better coverage by mainstream media controlled by corporate concerns.
I began watching the livestream of this event on Sept 18. There were hundreds of people occupying the park by then. Police had fenced off and manned the financial district, banned voice amplification, forced removal of protest signs and were patrolling the park in force. There was no mainstream media coverage of what was already a significant event. The entire event was streaming live on the internet from the beginning.
PR for Occupy Wall Street was excellent. Notice was given. It was ignored by the media until police brutality posted on youtube and a growing public awareness and support finally forced a response over a week later.
Denigrate this movement and the sacrifices the protestors have made so far. Dismiss the efforts others will make in cities around the country, including Seattle - but, remember that they (soon, we) are all fighting for your benefit as well.
Working in the system doesn't do shit. The system is the problem.
I began watching the livestream of this event on Sept 18. There were hundreds of people occupying the park by then. Police had fenced off and manned the financial district, banned voice amplification, forced removal of protest signs and were patrolling the park in force. There was no mainstream media coverage of what was already a significant event. The entire event was streaming live on the internet from the beginning.
PR for Occupy Wall Street was excellent. Notice was given. It was ignored by the media until police brutality posted on youtube and a growing public awareness and support finally forced a response over a week later.
Denigrate this movement and the sacrifices the protestors have made so far. Dismiss the efforts others will make in cities around the country, including Seattle - but, remember that they (soon, we) are all fighting for your benefit as well.
Working in the system doesn't do shit. The system is the problem.
19
@17 If you think it is just media coverage you are mistaken. But hey keep whining and sitting in parks and maybe someday that will result in something beside dead grass and wasted time.
21
Giffy, once again you've proven yourself an entirely ignorant fool. Change will come from outside this broken system, not from within. There's plenty of historical evidence to back that up--not the DLC technocratic bullshit elitism you're spouting. Go ahead beat on the Hippies--you know the people who were right about the meltdown when you were CERTAIN that was never going to happen either. You're just as CERTAIN and certainly wrong this time.
22
the top 1% of this country controls 50% of the wealth. That is what the "I am the 99%" refers too. I'm guessing that none of you unregistered commenters fall into that 1%, just a hunch. Now shut the fuck up.
23
I agree with Paul this time! Wow, that's a rarity. If it builds community and produces 10 real democrats in NYC--as opposed to establishmentarian drones like Giffy--then it was a success.
24
@22 certainly don't. Just the top 10-20% probably in income and assets and I certainly don't want the bottom 50% making claim on my hard work and my inheritance.
26
@24 Oh, so you still want the old "Europen" aristocracy to ensure your unearned wealth, just over here huh? Yeah, that's brilliant.
27
Did you look at the link?
The first page of the blog is a sign that says
"I AM A REALTOR"
http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/
For most people reading that, suddenly the 99 percent will become 19 percent!
The first page of the blog is a sign that says
"I AM A REALTOR"
http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/
For most people reading that, suddenly the 99 percent will become 19 percent!
28
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 13:11:43 -0700
From: Phil
To: editor@thestranger.com
Subject: SlogTip: Occupy Seattle General Assembly Fri 7pm, demonstration Sat 10-7
Occupy Seattle General Assembly
https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=2…
Time:
Friday, September 30 · 7:00pm - 10:00pm
Location:
Crud! Library closes at 6! 915 2nd ave instead. We'll have someone
up there to re-route folks
Created By:
Occupy Seattle
More Info:
West Entrance. Wear a $1 Dollar Bill with the Eye of Providence
facing out. Assembly following protest at 4pm.
We will be organizing face to face to discuss Saturday's event and
the future of the occupy movement in the North West. Solidarity!
Occupy Seattle Awareness Campaign Part 1
https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=2…
Time:
Saturday, October 1 · 10:00am - 7:00pm
Location:
Westlake Center
Created By:
Sunni Wissmer
More Info:
Spread flyers, awareness, and discuss the future of the Occupy
Seattle movement! Do we want to start an overnight occupation? Do
we want to continue to gather outside of the Federal Building?
Let's talk about it!
Location and Time: 10:00 am in Westlake Center Plaza, outside of
LUSH. Wear dollar bills with the eye of Providence facing out so
we can find each other!
Anyone can make flyers, which should include this information:
We are the 99%. We are here because we are tired of
corporations running our government.
occupyseattle.org
occupytogether.org
occupywallst.org
More...
From: Phil
To: editor@thestranger.com
Subject: SlogTip: Occupy Seattle General Assembly Fri 7pm, demonstration Sat 10-7
Occupy Seattle General Assembly
https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=2…
Time:
Friday, September 30 · 7:00pm - 10:00pm
Location:
Crud! Library closes at 6! 915 2nd ave instead. We'll have someone
up there to re-route folks
Created By:
Occupy Seattle
More Info:
West Entrance. Wear a $1 Dollar Bill with the Eye of Providence
facing out. Assembly following protest at 4pm.
We will be organizing face to face to discuss Saturday's event and
the future of the occupy movement in the North West. Solidarity!
Occupy Seattle Awareness Campaign Part 1
https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=2…
Time:
Saturday, October 1 · 10:00am - 7:00pm
Location:
Westlake Center
Created By:
Sunni Wissmer
More Info:
Spread flyers, awareness, and discuss the future of the Occupy
Seattle movement! Do we want to start an overnight occupation? Do
we want to continue to gather outside of the Federal Building?
Let's talk about it!
Location and Time: 10:00 am in Westlake Center Plaza, outside of
LUSH. Wear dollar bills with the eye of Providence facing out so
we can find each other!
Anyone can make flyers, which should include this information:
We are the 99%. We are here because we are tired of
corporations running our government.
occupyseattle.org
occupytogether.org
occupywallst.org
29
See, Phil M is in, which means I'm out.
Political protests never accomplish anything. They never have, they never will. Not that anyone involved has the vaguest idea how to transform these words into action. Because this is not action. It's a symbolic display.
The best you can hope for is to invigorate the right wing. They're licking their chops over this, you know.
Political protests never accomplish anything. They never have, they never will. Not that anyone involved has the vaguest idea how to transform these words into action. Because this is not action. It's a symbolic display.
The best you can hope for is to invigorate the right wing. They're licking their chops over this, you know.
30
Oh please. If the troll is in the top 90%, I'd be surprised. He's just another act-rich-so-people-will-think-you-are-rich, I-vote-Republican-cause-Grandpaw-did, schmuck. The only thing he inherited was an intellectually deficient gene pool.
31
The stories are compelling because just about everyone is one lost job away from almost any one of the stories. It includes people who were, until recently, pretty successful and pretty comfortable. When the shit hit the fan, the rug was pulled out from under them. Page after page of stories of people with no health insurance....all pretty scary.
The 1% and their dumb ass minion apologists are happy to see these people suffer. They are happy to see more people fail. They are goddamned glad to watch people die.
And they all suck.
The 1% and their dumb ass minion apologists are happy to see these people suffer. They are happy to see more people fail. They are goddamned glad to watch people die.
And they all suck.
32
@30. I don't consider myself rich. Family income these days is about $150k, many of my investments are down from their peak, house is down about 20% from peak (but 50% above purchase price). The way dear old mum is going, I won't see grandpas's $$ for another 20 years. Of course, she's been a great investor so I know my money is safe.
But I'm not going to agree to a state income tax. Ever.
But I'm not going to agree to a state income tax. Ever.
33
But Catalina don't get me wrong, it was appalling that banks were allowed to loan to any idiot with a pulse. In my parent's day you had to be interviewed to get an Amex card; I remember seeing a line of illegals and other ne'er do wells at Costco in '06 signing up for one. I knew then we were in trouble.
So don't worry. Things will right themselves. Idiots with a pulse and a line of 'credit' at the Money Tree won't be able to get real credit or buy homes. Order will be restored, our good President Obama will see to that.
So don't worry. Things will right themselves. Idiots with a pulse and a line of 'credit' at the Money Tree won't be able to get real credit or buy homes. Order will be restored, our good President Obama will see to that.
34
"We are the 99%."
No. You aren't. At best your far left fringe nutty notions are embraced by a small minority of Americans. Most of those in the same financial boat as you think you're a whining lazy loser wanting others to pay for your laziness. You DO NOT represent anything like the 99% of Americans you claim to.
"Our homes are being foreclosed on.."
Here's a whacky idea. Pay the mortgage and your home won't be foreclosed on. Otherwise you have only yourself to blame.
"We are denied quality medical care."
Another wacky idea. Get a skill that means you can work somewhere other than McDonalds. Get insurance. Don't have a family you can't afford to house, feed, educate and provide medical care for. When you've done all those things get back to me on how you're denied medical care. Until then, I don't care.
"We are working long hours for little pay..."
Gee, who knew that getting a 2.2 GPA in high school and attending 2 quarters of community college wouldn't set you up in the SWEET life? Goddamn guidance counselor lied to you!
"...And no rights."
Except minimum wage, 40 hour weeks with OT paid for hours in excess of that, mandatory breaks and lunches, mandatory job safety standards etc etc etc. Idiot.
"The other 1% is getting everything..."
Because they, you know, worked for it. It kind of belongs to them. Want to be wealthy? Come up with a clever idea for a service or product. Leverage your home, investor money, 90 to 100 hour weeks for a couple of years, time with your family and friends and maybe, just maybe if the economy is okay and your idea as good as you think, you might not lose all of that.
Want to be in the safe category of working for others with no risk? Fine. Nothing wrong with that. But don't then whine about how those who worked and risked get the profit.
For all the corrections to your idiotic talking points, no charge. Just a kindly service from one American to another.
More...
No. You aren't. At best your far left fringe nutty notions are embraced by a small minority of Americans. Most of those in the same financial boat as you think you're a whining lazy loser wanting others to pay for your laziness. You DO NOT represent anything like the 99% of Americans you claim to.
"Our homes are being foreclosed on.."
Here's a whacky idea. Pay the mortgage and your home won't be foreclosed on. Otherwise you have only yourself to blame.
"We are denied quality medical care."
Another wacky idea. Get a skill that means you can work somewhere other than McDonalds. Get insurance. Don't have a family you can't afford to house, feed, educate and provide medical care for. When you've done all those things get back to me on how you're denied medical care. Until then, I don't care.
"We are working long hours for little pay..."
Gee, who knew that getting a 2.2 GPA in high school and attending 2 quarters of community college wouldn't set you up in the SWEET life? Goddamn guidance counselor lied to you!
"...And no rights."
Except minimum wage, 40 hour weeks with OT paid for hours in excess of that, mandatory breaks and lunches, mandatory job safety standards etc etc etc. Idiot.
"The other 1% is getting everything..."
Because they, you know, worked for it. It kind of belongs to them. Want to be wealthy? Come up with a clever idea for a service or product. Leverage your home, investor money, 90 to 100 hour weeks for a couple of years, time with your family and friends and maybe, just maybe if the economy is okay and your idea as good as you think, you might not lose all of that.
Want to be in the safe category of working for others with no risk? Fine. Nothing wrong with that. But don't then whine about how those who worked and risked get the profit.
For all the corrections to your idiotic talking points, no charge. Just a kindly service from one American to another.
35
@34: Yo, we might listen to you if you actually knew what the fuck you were talking about. Case in point, your bizarre and unsupported allegation in this thread. You want to debate? Go back there and explain how what you said is remotely accurate.
36
Seattleblahs! I knew we could depend on you to come in and scold on behalf of your betters. You're so loyal that way.
You know, if you keep up this good work on behalf of the wealthy, they might actually ask you to lunch at The Rainier Club some day. Not dinner, of course - they know that you'd just be confused by the menu and probably use the wrong silverware - but a nice lunch to reward a trusty minion never goes put of style.
You know, if you keep up this good work on behalf of the wealthy, they might actually ask you to lunch at The Rainier Club some day. Not dinner, of course - they know that you'd just be confused by the menu and probably use the wrong silverware - but a nice lunch to reward a trusty minion never goes put of style.
37
@36
My betters?
What's my wife got to do with it?
But yer rite. I dunno know how to eat no fancy food with no fancy plates and stuff, not nohow. Jes give me a Bud in the can, since them bottles is fer sissies and high falutin librul types, and maybe a hot dog with some tater chips. And turn that there Nascar race on while yer up, will ya?
My betters?
What's my wife got to do with it?
But yer rite. I dunno know how to eat no fancy food with no fancy plates and stuff, not nohow. Jes give me a Bud in the can, since them bottles is fer sissies and high falutin librul types, and maybe a hot dog with some tater chips. And turn that there Nascar race on while yer up, will ya?
38
Speaking of she who must be obeyed, she's shaking car keys and pointing at the door. Have a pleasant evening.
39
@ Does my balaclava make me look bourgeois?
You said:
"....it was appalling that banks were allowed to loan to any idiot with a pulse. In my parent's day you had to be interviewed to get an Amex card; I remember seeing a line of illegals and other ne'er do wells at Costco in '06 signing up for one. I knew then we were in trouble."
How the hell do you know who is an "illegal"? Can you smell it on them? Do they stink like beans and the sweat of a person who does manual labor? And how do you define a "ne'er do well"? What a cruel label to put on people you know nothing about.
Also: WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU DOING IN A PLACE LIKE COSTCO YOU CLASSY FUCK?
You know they let in non-whites, right?!
You said:
"....it was appalling that banks were allowed to loan to any idiot with a pulse. In my parent's day you had to be interviewed to get an Amex card; I remember seeing a line of illegals and other ne'er do wells at Costco in '06 signing up for one. I knew then we were in trouble."
How the hell do you know who is an "illegal"? Can you smell it on them? Do they stink like beans and the sweat of a person who does manual labor? And how do you define a "ne'er do well"? What a cruel label to put on people you know nothing about.
Also: WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU DOING IN A PLACE LIKE COSTCO YOU CLASSY FUCK?
You know they let in non-whites, right?!
40
@29 So, tell me when incrementalism is sold to you in shitty platitudes made to coopt you into rightwing policies you're OK with it, but you're not OK with *the beginning* of non-astroturfed activism? You're basically embodying the problem without offering any guidance whatsoever beyond "you gotta vote and get involved in the process guys! You're not serious otherwise." I am not saying we're anywhere near "change" yet, but it's a start. That's all. Of course, keep on accusing others of lacking vision.
42
Poor Catalina, she dreamed of drinking Pimms and watching the young boys sweating at Henley, but instead found itself watching 'Another Country' on VHS night after night and choking its chicken while dreaming of punting with Rupert.
43
"WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU DOING IN A PLACE LIKE COSTCO YOU CLASSY FUCK?"
Do you know some where else you can buy 50 rolls of toilet paper and 400 nappies in one go? And one doesn't get ahead by waisting money; the same grandma who taught me how to darn socks, taught me that.
"How the hell do you know who is an "illegal"?"
Que?
Do you know some where else you can buy 50 rolls of toilet paper and 400 nappies in one go? And one doesn't get ahead by waisting money; the same grandma who taught me how to darn socks, taught me that.
"How the hell do you know who is an "illegal"?"
Que?
44
@41 You're right, $150k isn't very much which is why I resent being taxed so much to keep baby mamas and hobos living it up on my dime. At least the 1% feels that way too.
But don't get me wrong, we should roll back the Bush tax cuts from 35 to 39% on upper incomes, keep the capital gains where it is and start slashing spending. Only then will be balance the budget.
But don't get me wrong, we should roll back the Bush tax cuts from 35 to 39% on upper incomes, keep the capital gains where it is and start slashing spending. Only then will be balance the budget.
45
@Does my balaclava make me look bourgeois?
Hahahhaha. You get off on sitting home trolling for comments and getting people wound up. I bet you don't even believe the shit you type. And I have no doubt that you SUCK in the sack. A cowardly, stingy, petty, sniveling little twat like you can't be worth shit when it comes to a good ol' fashioned fucking. Unless you pretend I'm an "illegal" or slave girl that needs punishing for wastin' too much of my masta's toilet paper.
HAHAHAHAH.
You've made my day.... and taken me off track. This is why I never comment on here. It's a freakin' loser moron convention.
Hahahhaha. You get off on sitting home trolling for comments and getting people wound up. I bet you don't even believe the shit you type. And I have no doubt that you SUCK in the sack. A cowardly, stingy, petty, sniveling little twat like you can't be worth shit when it comes to a good ol' fashioned fucking. Unless you pretend I'm an "illegal" or slave girl that needs punishing for wastin' too much of my masta's toilet paper.
HAHAHAHAH.
You've made my day.... and taken me off track. This is why I never comment on here. It's a freakin' loser moron convention.
46
@44 Yeah, because cutting the only source of demand during a depression has worked out so well before.
47
Back to a decent comment subject: Giffy, how many legislative district meetings have you attended? Calling those displays of neighborhood ego a way to "get involved" is not up to your usually intelligent comment standards.
48
@40 Where's the rally for people who don't hate banks or rich people but who think high incomes ought to be taxed at a higher rate and that the repeal of the Glass-Steagal Act was a mistake?
49
By the way, Seattleblues, you might want to check that thread again, because you don't know jack about hate crimes.
52
@48, I think that's the "Elizabeth Warren For Senate" party right now. Her recent statement on taxation has the wingnuts in an absolute terrified rage - they fear her, and should, thank goodness.
You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear: you moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for; you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate; you were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_W…
Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea? God bless. Keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.
53
Thanks Paul. Gotta get out there. Nothing will happen sittin' here arguing with delusional right wingers. The class war has risen way up into the upper middle class. This is about all of us but the top.
54
@29: Fnarf and Paul: What do party lines have to do with the fact that the banks ripped us off and our government staff gave them a pass? I don't see reacting in outrage as a liberal thing.
56
@47 But see that's the problem. What if all these committed people stormed in and took charge of their local LD and pushed out the petty minded NIMBYs? What if we pressed union drives at company after company? What if we ran good candidates for local office and spent time doorbelling the fuck out of the district?
I think its funny that people assume I think things are great, I don't. I just don't see how sitting in a park with some signs actually changes anything. It's easy to point out how committed people are, or how much things suck, or on and on and on, but that does not mean that this method is going to do anything at all. I mean if the end game is too make people feel badass that they are 'fighting the power' then well done, but if its real social change I fail to see how that happens.
I keep bringing up the Teabaggers because look what they have accomplished in a very short period of time and its not just because the news covers them. They got big money for sure, but they also have a ton of people working very strategically to get asshats like Rand Paul elected. When is the last time we got a really good leftwing senator elected?
You have the old guard left still running the show while the new energy and blood is wasting their time and stupid shit like this. If I were in that 1% I'd be laughing my fucking ass off right now.
I think its funny that people assume I think things are great, I don't. I just don't see how sitting in a park with some signs actually changes anything. It's easy to point out how committed people are, or how much things suck, or on and on and on, but that does not mean that this method is going to do anything at all. I mean if the end game is too make people feel badass that they are 'fighting the power' then well done, but if its real social change I fail to see how that happens.
I keep bringing up the Teabaggers because look what they have accomplished in a very short period of time and its not just because the news covers them. They got big money for sure, but they also have a ton of people working very strategically to get asshats like Rand Paul elected. When is the last time we got a really good leftwing senator elected?
You have the old guard left still running the show while the new energy and blood is wasting their time and stupid shit like this. If I were in that 1% I'd be laughing my fucking ass off right now.
57
As moving and sympathetic as these stories are posting sad pictures on the Internet won't change a thing. In fact it gives these people (and slog) a very false sense of activism. It's passive and mostly useless.
Occupying Tahir Square for six months was NOT a weak unfocused protest march like these Occupy Seattle proposes. Comparing the two is a egocentric joke.
Maybe the Wall Street occupation, if they grow and keep going into the 2012 election, might accomish something. But weekend marches of a hundred contratictory interest groups won't do a fucking thing.
Occupying Tahir Square for six months was NOT a weak unfocused protest march like these Occupy Seattle proposes. Comparing the two is a egocentric joke.
Maybe the Wall Street occupation, if they grow and keep going into the 2012 election, might accomish something. But weekend marches of a hundred contratictory interest groups won't do a fucking thing.
61
@48 Yes!
I was reading the post from the we are 99% and it was a joke. Bozos complaining about not being able to pay their car and student loans. Uh, that's your problem, bub. Not the banks fault you spent 50k on an art history degree.
Still, I will go because the wealth needs a little bit of redistributing, and their will be a lot of morons for me to make fun of.
I was reading the post from the we are 99% and it was a joke. Bozos complaining about not being able to pay their car and student loans. Uh, that's your problem, bub. Not the banks fault you spent 50k on an art history degree.
Still, I will go because the wealth needs a little bit of redistributing, and their will be a lot of morons for me to make fun of.
62
marching around, chanting, and hoping to catch the ete of a fellow protester isn't doing anything.
Here's some quick advice:
dont spend money you don't have.
That's it. It's that simple.
Other than that, fuck off hippies.
Here's some quick advice:
dont spend money you don't have.
That's it. It's that simple.
Other than that, fuck off hippies.
64
Okay kiddies!! It's 10:19 am and I am on the way out the door to head down. (I was downtown earlier and went by Westlake after my gym work out and at 9am there was NO ONE there at all!!) I know it was early but you'd think there would have been a few early birds to get something set up.....
And prepare for rain today
And prepare for rain today
65
@60, that was rather interesting and pretty much reinforces what I've thought about this. The protests are not really about change, but about the participants themselves. Making them feel engaged and meaningful. That and placing ideological commitments to things like "non-hierarchical models" over looking more models that actually work.
Nothing really wrong with that, we all do things to make ourselves feel good, but I am not going to pretend that this is somehow an important and useful social movement.
Nothing really wrong with that, we all do things to make ourselves feel good, but I am not going to pretend that this is somehow an important and useful social movement.
66
Since I'm 400 miles away at the moment, I'm going to the park to throw some discs and hope sincerely that my sweetie doesn't get arrested today. Let's not all whine about "coherent messages". Just because it won't fit in a 2 minute sound bite doesn't mean it's not important.
67
@65: Where do you get the idea that non-hierarchical models don't work?
Also, in a sense it is always about the participants. We live in a very alienating world which is a major reason things are so fucked up. To break through that alienation is an important step.
Another, helpful perspective:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/…
Also, in a sense it is always about the participants. We live in a very alienating world which is a major reason things are so fucked up. To break through that alienation is an important step.
Another, helpful perspective:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/…
68
@67 From experience. I am not saying you need ruthless top down style leadership, but you need some way to structure and convey a clear message. There 'general assembly' idea seems like an incredibly annoying and ineffectual way to accomplish anything.
I really fail to see how our world is alienating. We have problems, but this is one of the best times in history to be alive. At least in the west. I think people expect too much out of life.
I really fail to see how our world is alienating. We have problems, but this is one of the best times in history to be alive. At least in the west. I think people expect too much out of life.
69
"I really fail to see how our world is alienating. We have problems, but this is one of the best times in history to be alive. At least in the west. I think people expect too much out of life."
Jesus, you must live a life of blind privilege, but I can't imagine how you can seriously believe that. If so, our world views are fundamentally different.
Jesus, you must live a life of blind privilege, but I can't imagine how you can seriously believe that. If so, our world views are fundamentally different.
70
@69 I can turn on a facet and get clean water. Food is abundant. I have been educated and can read. I have access to the accumulation of world knowledge for about 30 bucks a month. I have a chance to pursue any number of careers or paths. I have the time to even consider things like meaning and my place in the world.
Maybe that's blind privilege but it's shared by almost everyone in the western world.
Progress is never done and we should keep working for more, but we are damn lucky to be alive when we are. Damn lucky. Almost any other time and you would be fortunate to meek out a living over a short life of painful toil with no understanding of the world or even the thought that it could change. People have fought and died for what we casually dismiss and throw away.
So I sure as fuck am not going to feel sorry for myself or think we have it bad.
Maybe that's blind privilege but it's shared by almost everyone in the western world.
Progress is never done and we should keep working for more, but we are damn lucky to be alive when we are. Damn lucky. Almost any other time and you would be fortunate to meek out a living over a short life of painful toil with no understanding of the world or even the thought that it could change. People have fought and died for what we casually dismiss and throw away.
So I sure as fuck am not going to feel sorry for myself or think we have it bad.
71
"...it's shared by almost everyone in the western world."
Wow. If you really believe that I have nothing more to say to you.
Wow. If you really believe that I have nothing more to say to you.
72
Okay, I was there at 11 am (the time they went into "break-out groups" and the crowd of about 200 or so to "put your hand on the shoulder of the person you trust the most") and at that point I decided to take a few minutes, walk to the ID and get a Vietnamese sandwich. I came back around noon and they had broken out into their groups (the crowd was a little larger at this point) and going on about rather boring points of organization.
Say this about Seattle...you can't accuse us of NOT organizing or committeeizing something to death. No sir!! And watching this crowd you could tell the spirit seemed to be rather drained by the "Seattle Process as Applied to Protest Rallies". Seriously, if you want a protest movement to have life you have to get the people worked up. Rally the troops!! Get our collective fires raging in our bellies!! Make us eager to not settle for anything less than dragging every fucking banker back to Seattle in shackles and chains then parade them down 4th Avenue. All the while the rest of us spit and kick them while wearing their Gucci, Louis Vuitton and Michael Korrs stiletto heals. Sure, we've got to organize but you sure as hell need to make us remember why we're there.
That's what killed me about this. It was a meeting (Seattle Process) that didn't seem very engaging. And folks,,,you're in DOWNTOWN SEATTLE!!! There are people milling around for you to ENGAGE!!!
Say this about Seattle...you can't accuse us of NOT organizing or committeeizing something to death. No sir!! And watching this crowd you could tell the spirit seemed to be rather drained by the "Seattle Process as Applied to Protest Rallies". Seriously, if you want a protest movement to have life you have to get the people worked up. Rally the troops!! Get our collective fires raging in our bellies!! Make us eager to not settle for anything less than dragging every fucking banker back to Seattle in shackles and chains then parade them down 4th Avenue. All the while the rest of us spit and kick them while wearing their Gucci, Louis Vuitton and Michael Korrs stiletto heals. Sure, we've got to organize but you sure as hell need to make us remember why we're there.
That's what killed me about this. It was a meeting (Seattle Process) that didn't seem very engaging. And folks,,,you're in DOWNTOWN SEATTLE!!! There are people milling around for you to ENGAGE!!!
74
@72 Ug. I hate new age feel goodery and don't need to be instructed to touch people I like nor do I like there being an increased risk of someone I don't know putting their hands all over me.
75
As far as I see it, there's only one way to mount an effective protest for change. Take your money out of your 401k, stocks, bonds, cd's, mutual funds, ect. Get your money out of the system and the hands of Wall Street. If you do not have any of those things, the system will not notice anything you do because to them you are irrelevant.
77
@75, you know if we did that it would crash the system right? They don't have the money to pay out the 401K's (which makes me wonder how they will pay it out in 20 or 30 years when millions start to retire who have been instructed to invest in such things)
@74, the touchy thing didn't bother me as much as the total lack of enthusiasm of the rally. (And seriously, break out groups?!?!? Shit, was Seattle started by the Presbyterian Church in the 1800's and they left their committee DNA on our political system?) But I admit, it may have gotten better or I may have missed the rousing speech and rally that got everyone fired up and ready to go. Though I doubt it.
@74, the touchy thing didn't bother me as much as the total lack of enthusiasm of the rally. (And seriously, break out groups?!?!? Shit, was Seattle started by the Presbyterian Church in the 1800's and they left their committee DNA on our political system?) But I admit, it may have gotten better or I may have missed the rousing speech and rally that got everyone fired up and ready to go. Though I doubt it.
79
"Political protest never accomplished anything." Yeah, except for getting women and non-whites the vote, ending child labor in the U.S., winning Medicaid and Social Security, kicking the British Empire out of India, and running a few tinhorn dictators out of the Middle East this year, I guess you're right.
Sheesh. Amazing how people who consider themselves "realists" can be so ignorant of history staring them in the face. Being cynical doesn't mean you're smarter than everyone else; it just means you have a more convenient excuse for sitting on your ass.
Look at just about ANY big social change this country has seen, and grassroots organizing was what got the job done. History lesson over, you can go back to "Dancing with the Stars" now.
Sheesh. Amazing how people who consider themselves "realists" can be so ignorant of history staring them in the face. Being cynical doesn't mean you're smarter than everyone else; it just means you have a more convenient excuse for sitting on your ass.
Look at just about ANY big social change this country has seen, and grassroots organizing was what got the job done. History lesson over, you can go back to "Dancing with the Stars" now.
80
You can't seriously compare what Ghandi or King did with this Occupy Seattle bullshit? The fucking ego! Our situation is nothing like what Ghandi or King faced. Nothing. God the narcissism in this country.
The situations will be remotely comparible when the partipants of these Occupation protests, like Ghandi and King (and thier followers), are willing to die for thier cause. American liberals will hardly sacrifice a weekend in the rain let alone lay down their fortunes and their lives.
A protest is NOT a movement. A movement forces the establishment into extremes. And a movement has to willing to endure those extremes at any price. Americans have too much lose.
Right now. Eventually we won't have anything to lose.
But right now you, me, the staff of the Sttanger,, and just about every self described liberal in America is too stuffed with priviledge and too lazy to do what it takes.
The situations will be remotely comparible when the partipants of these Occupation protests, like Ghandi and King (and thier followers), are willing to die for thier cause. American liberals will hardly sacrifice a weekend in the rain let alone lay down their fortunes and their lives.
A protest is NOT a movement. A movement forces the establishment into extremes. And a movement has to willing to endure those extremes at any price. Americans have too much lose.
Right now. Eventually we won't have anything to lose.
But right now you, me, the staff of the Sttanger,, and just about every self described liberal in America is too stuffed with priviledge and too lazy to do what it takes.
81
@80 I completely agree with you. But I don't believe Dr. King's vision is anywhere near reality. King wasn't killed for "I have a dream", but because he was agitating against the system that enforced wealth inequality. That is worse now.
82
SB @ 34
I have been an architect for 32 years, worked hard and basically very good at what I do.
I got laid off Thursday with no warning, no two week notice, no nothing. So stuff it asshole.
I have been an architect for 32 years, worked hard and basically very good at what I do.
I got laid off Thursday with no warning, no two week notice, no nothing. So stuff it asshole.
83
Here is another example of banks greed! Banks cheated veterans over refinancing fees
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By J. Scott Trubey and Bill Rankin
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Some of the nation’s largest banks and mortgage firms, including a subsidiary of an Atlanta-based bank, made millions of dollars hiding illegal fees when thousands of veterans refinanced home loans, according to a federal lawsuit unsealed this week.
More business news
* Lawsuit: Banks cheated veterans
* Biggest metro Atlanta banks grab more of the market
* Labor shortage costs Ga. $391M
* Atlanta's Coca-Cola is No. 1 brand, says consultancy
* Liaison Technologies closes funding round of $30 million
* Delta Air Lines news, links
* Coca-Cola Co. news
* Health Care Reform coverage
* Read Henry Unger's Biz Beat blog
Two whistle-blowers -- both from metro Atlanta -- filed the lawsuit in 2006 in U.S. District Court in Atlanta on behalf of the federal government. The suit seeks to recoup unspecified damages and penalties.
More than a dozen major lenders, including Wells Fargo, Bank of America and SunTrust Banks subsidiary SunTrust Mortgage, defrauded veterans and the government through mortgage loans guaranteed by the Department of Veterans Affairs, according to allegations contained in the suit.
“They gouged the veterans and then cheated the taxpayers,” Columbus lawyer Jim Butler said Tuesday. “We’re talking about hundreds of millions of dollars lost by taxpayers.”
The alleged fraud went on for a decade or more and involved loans issued across the country, he said.
Under the law, the U.S. Justice Department can intervene to take over the case, but has not so far. But the U.S. attorney in Atlanta left the door open to doing so.
“The government has not yet made a decision about whether to intervene in this case,” U.S. Attorney Sally Yates said. “As the case develops, we will continue to evaluate the merits of the case, and will consider intervening in the case at a later date if it becomes appropriate to do so.”
The lawsuit was originally filed by the whistle-blowers, metro Atlanta mortgage brokers Victor Bibby, president of U.S. Financial Services, and Brian Donnelly, vice president of the firm.
Spokesmen for SunTrust and Bank of America declined to comment, as did a spokeswoman for Wells Fargo Home Mortgage.
The suit claims the lenders engaged in a “brazen” fraud scheme. The scheme involved a program allowing veterans who already owned homes with a Veterans Affairs loan to refinance so they could take advantage of low interest rates.
Because the loans were for veterans, were for lower refinancing payments and were guaranteed by taxpayers, the conditions of the loans and the amount of fees imposed by the lender were strictly limited, the suit said.
The fees that can be charged in these loans -- called Interest Rate Reduction Refinancing Loans -- cannot include attorneys fees, said Atlanta lawyer Marlan Wilbanks, who also represents the whistle-blowers.
Although veterans were prohibited from paying attorneys fees, the lenders were free to pay those fees, he said.
Instead, the lenders hid the attorneys fees by listing $400 to $1,000 for those fees under “title examination fees,” Butler said.
“They were charging, on average, $500 to veterans that was illegal,” Butler said.
Federal regulations also prohibit the VA from guaranteeing these loans when a lender has imposed illegal fees, but by hiding the fees the lenders deceived the government into backing the loans, the suit said.
The government guarantees up to 25 percent of the value of each loan in the event of default.
The suit claims the lenders “submitted hundreds of thousands of false and fraudulent documents” to get the government to guarantee the loans. Tens of thousands of the loans are in default, the suit contends.
“Their guarantees were secured by fraud,” Wilbanks said. “It affects the taxpayer because when these loans go bad or into default, the government begins spending money.”
More...
* ShareThis
By J. Scott Trubey and Bill Rankin
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Some of the nation’s largest banks and mortgage firms, including a subsidiary of an Atlanta-based bank, made millions of dollars hiding illegal fees when thousands of veterans refinanced home loans, according to a federal lawsuit unsealed this week.
More business news
* Lawsuit: Banks cheated veterans
* Biggest metro Atlanta banks grab more of the market
* Labor shortage costs Ga. $391M
* Atlanta's Coca-Cola is No. 1 brand, says consultancy
* Liaison Technologies closes funding round of $30 million
* Delta Air Lines news, links
* Coca-Cola Co. news
* Health Care Reform coverage
* Read Henry Unger's Biz Beat blog
Two whistle-blowers -- both from metro Atlanta -- filed the lawsuit in 2006 in U.S. District Court in Atlanta on behalf of the federal government. The suit seeks to recoup unspecified damages and penalties.
More than a dozen major lenders, including Wells Fargo, Bank of America and SunTrust Banks subsidiary SunTrust Mortgage, defrauded veterans and the government through mortgage loans guaranteed by the Department of Veterans Affairs, according to allegations contained in the suit.
“They gouged the veterans and then cheated the taxpayers,” Columbus lawyer Jim Butler said Tuesday. “We’re talking about hundreds of millions of dollars lost by taxpayers.”
The alleged fraud went on for a decade or more and involved loans issued across the country, he said.
Under the law, the U.S. Justice Department can intervene to take over the case, but has not so far. But the U.S. attorney in Atlanta left the door open to doing so.
“The government has not yet made a decision about whether to intervene in this case,” U.S. Attorney Sally Yates said. “As the case develops, we will continue to evaluate the merits of the case, and will consider intervening in the case at a later date if it becomes appropriate to do so.”
The lawsuit was originally filed by the whistle-blowers, metro Atlanta mortgage brokers Victor Bibby, president of U.S. Financial Services, and Brian Donnelly, vice president of the firm.
Spokesmen for SunTrust and Bank of America declined to comment, as did a spokeswoman for Wells Fargo Home Mortgage.
The suit claims the lenders engaged in a “brazen” fraud scheme. The scheme involved a program allowing veterans who already owned homes with a Veterans Affairs loan to refinance so they could take advantage of low interest rates.
Because the loans were for veterans, were for lower refinancing payments and were guaranteed by taxpayers, the conditions of the loans and the amount of fees imposed by the lender were strictly limited, the suit said.
The fees that can be charged in these loans -- called Interest Rate Reduction Refinancing Loans -- cannot include attorneys fees, said Atlanta lawyer Marlan Wilbanks, who also represents the whistle-blowers.
Although veterans were prohibited from paying attorneys fees, the lenders were free to pay those fees, he said.
Instead, the lenders hid the attorneys fees by listing $400 to $1,000 for those fees under “title examination fees,” Butler said.
“They were charging, on average, $500 to veterans that was illegal,” Butler said.
Federal regulations also prohibit the VA from guaranteeing these loans when a lender has imposed illegal fees, but by hiding the fees the lenders deceived the government into backing the loans, the suit said.
The government guarantees up to 25 percent of the value of each loan in the event of default.
The suit claims the lenders “submitted hundreds of thousands of false and fraudulent documents” to get the government to guarantee the loans. Tens of thousands of the loans are in default, the suit contends.
“Their guarantees were secured by fraud,” Wilbanks said. “It affects the taxpayer because when these loans go bad or into default, the government begins spending money.”
84
@70 Being able to completely ignore the existance of classim and poverty is the definition of privledge.
85
Occupy Wall Street needs money and a direction. WE the People (WE Party) can help!
Occupy Wall Street turns to the A United World Social Network (WE Party) for help to create change without protesting.
WE THE PEOPLE want to see a shift in consciousness from I to WE - www.weparty.info
WE are putting together a program for ALL governments - WE THE PEOPLE appeals to 100% of the people. At WE PARTIES WE are making a difference at www.weparties.info and not getting arrested.
See the 100% World Peace Club (www.aunitedworld.net/club) - Create WE Party websites (www.15freesites.info) - Join the shift from I to WE
"Learning your purpose is your energy source to promote kindness and pass your love forward" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v... -
Your followers can definitely help us create a shift in consciousness! http://aunitedworld.net/shift
The (http://www.aunitedworld.net) Social Network is for "People Helping People Online"
This has nothing to do with the Tea Party. It's the WE, Party and it appeals to 100% of the people, 100% of the time.
The WE Party is about helping and inspiring others primarily online. It's about doing what's right. If a person does something that 99 out of 100 people feel is right and there is one person that doesn't feel that way, then it is wrong! WE are the people with Character! http://charactercounts.org/pdf/KFC-Pledg…
The WE Party Mentors say "WE can make a difference" - "Yes WE can" - United WE stand" - "WE can be the change WE wish to see in the world" - "In God WE trust" - "WE the people" - "WE are the world" - I'm proud to be an AmerWEcan" - "WE are family" - "WE believe" - "WE need a media in this country that covers grassroots movements" - WE shall not be moved" - "All WE want is equity" - "WE are the 99%"
WE created three petitions for WE Party Peace Ambassadors to sign.
1) Pass It Forward (http://www.change.org/petition...
2) World Peace Petition (http://www.change.org/petition...
3) Six Pillars of Character (http://www.change.org/petition...
It'll just take a minute!Once you're done, please ask your friends to sign the petition as well.
Grassroots movements succeed because people like you are willing to spread the word!
More...
Occupy Wall Street turns to the A United World Social Network (WE Party) for help to create change without protesting.
WE THE PEOPLE want to see a shift in consciousness from I to WE - www.weparty.info
WE are putting together a program for ALL governments - WE THE PEOPLE appeals to 100% of the people. At WE PARTIES WE are making a difference at www.weparties.info and not getting arrested.
See the 100% World Peace Club (www.aunitedworld.net/club) - Create WE Party websites (www.15freesites.info) - Join the shift from I to WE
"Learning your purpose is your energy source to promote kindness and pass your love forward" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v... -
Your followers can definitely help us create a shift in consciousness! http://aunitedworld.net/shift
The (http://www.aunitedworld.net) Social Network is for "People Helping People Online"
This has nothing to do with the Tea Party. It's the WE, Party and it appeals to 100% of the people, 100% of the time.
The WE Party is about helping and inspiring others primarily online. It's about doing what's right. If a person does something that 99 out of 100 people feel is right and there is one person that doesn't feel that way, then it is wrong! WE are the people with Character! http://charactercounts.org/pdf/KFC-Pledg…
The WE Party Mentors say "WE can make a difference" - "Yes WE can" - United WE stand" - "WE can be the change WE wish to see in the world" - "In God WE trust" - "WE the people" - "WE are the world" - I'm proud to be an AmerWEcan" - "WE are family" - "WE believe" - "WE need a media in this country that covers grassroots movements" - WE shall not be moved" - "All WE want is equity" - "WE are the 99%"
WE created three petitions for WE Party Peace Ambassadors to sign.
1) Pass It Forward (http://www.change.org/petition...
2) World Peace Petition (http://www.change.org/petition...
3) Six Pillars of Character (http://www.change.org/petition...
It'll just take a minute!Once you're done, please ask your friends to sign the petition as well.
Grassroots movements succeed because people like you are willing to spread the word!
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