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News & ArtsTuesday, September 27, 2011
News The Tea Party Is Right About This
Posted by Dan Savage on Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 2:25 PM
From the Department of Stopped Clocks: this idea—brought to you by the Tea Party—should be adopted: abolish the paper dollar, replace it with a dollar coin. The guys at TPM are sneering at it the idea, it seems, because some teabaggers in Congress proposed it. Yes, dollar coins already exist and, no, they're not widely used. But that's because we haven't withdrawn paper dollars. Withdraw the paper dollar and people will use dollar coins... because they'll have no choice. You know, just like people will use energy-efficient light bulbs if we withdraw energy-inefficient light bulbs, people will use canvas grocery bags if we withdraw plastic bags (and charge for paper ones), low-flow toilets if we withdraw water-wasting toilets, etc.
But whenever we try to do any of those things someone inevitably screams "FREEDOM!" and then sensible idea/bill/proposal is quickly killed because freedom.
2
Get rid of paper dollars, AND introduce two-dollar coins as well. A buck ain't what it used to be, and even a dollar coin is pathetic in value compared to what most developed countries mint.
3
DON'T FUCK WITH MY LIGHT BULBS ! Those energy efficient things are garbage. They cast the WORST light EVAH !
5
planet money did a great podcast on this bill, and included lots of bit of info about the pros/cons of the coin. http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/07/1…
8
Sure, but the coin lasts about 20 times longer, making it cheaper in the long run.
And the coin is golden colored (brass, actually); it is not gold-plated. That's ridiculous.
And the coin is golden colored (brass, actually); it is not gold-plated. That's ridiculous.
10
Kudos to not rejecting an idea simply because the person proposing it may be a douchebag. My only concern is pragmatic -- do we know that the machines that we might want to put dollar coins into are physically capable of accepting dollar coins? I ended up with a half-dollar coin at one point and it wouldn't fit into various machines, such as parking meters, or bus fare machines, or other public transit machines. Of course we could simply replace all of those machines with ones that do accept coins, OR redesign the dollar coins to fit in those slots, but both of these might take time and money. Just a thought.
11
@Vince
Paper is cheaper to produce. But they wear out much faster and the small cost savings is more than offset by the increase in production you need from paper.
Having 1, 2, and perhaps 5 dollar coins would really be great. While we're at it, we should eliminate the penny as well.
Paper is cheaper to produce. But they wear out much faster and the small cost savings is more than offset by the increase in production you need from paper.
Having 1, 2, and perhaps 5 dollar coins would really be great. While we're at it, we should eliminate the penny as well.
13
You're damn straight that tea party patriots will scream "freedom," because the government has NO PLACE dictating what kind of food you eat (especially since Moochelle could hit the gym herself), what kind of lightbulbs or grocery bags to use, and whether or not you should wear a seatbelt or a motorcycle helmet.
This is how the statist gains and keeps power - by starting out with the seemingly mundane aspects of our lives that they think no one will care about it, and soon they will be controlling your health care. Don't think there's any death panels? Look up "quality adjusted life year," in the health care law. The government will determine if the quality of your life warrants health care, or if they should let you die.
THAT'S RIGHT!
And leftist hypocrites have excoriated Ron Paul for telling this simple truth.
THE GOVERNMENT HAS NO RIGHT TO BE IN OUR LIVES LIKE THAT!!!
It's not anywhere in the Constitution. And any court that says it is has contributed to what Mark Levin calls the soft tyranny running the country I fought for in Vietnam, the country I can hardly recognize now.
This is how the statist gains and keeps power - by starting out with the seemingly mundane aspects of our lives that they think no one will care about it, and soon they will be controlling your health care. Don't think there's any death panels? Look up "quality adjusted life year," in the health care law. The government will determine if the quality of your life warrants health care, or if they should let you die.
THAT'S RIGHT!
And leftist hypocrites have excoriated Ron Paul for telling this simple truth.
THE GOVERNMENT HAS NO RIGHT TO BE IN OUR LIVES LIKE THAT!!!
It's not anywhere in the Constitution. And any court that says it is has contributed to what Mark Levin calls the soft tyranny running the country I fought for in Vietnam, the country I can hardly recognize now.
14
A dollar bill typically lasts less than two years.
Surveying the change in my pocket...most was minted in the 1990s. I've got both a quarter and a penny from 1982.
Surveying the change in my pocket...most was minted in the 1990s. I've got both a quarter and a penny from 1982.
16
I've been thinking about buying a set of 250 dollar coins (with free shipping, yours for only $250!), just for fun. They'd be nice for paying bus fare if I hadn't switched to Orca.
17
Yeah, right. Try walking around with $15 worth of dollar coins sometime and you'll sing a different tune.
18
I moved to London last month and it took me all of two days to get used to pound and two-pound coins instead of paper money. It's really not hard to make the switch when it's the normal thing.
And I honestly find the coins to be way more convenient than dollar bills.
And I honestly find the coins to be way more convenient than dollar bills.
19
First, it's not actual paper, it's cotton and linen.
Second, how does limiting a consumer's choice really fit into the whole anti-monopoly thing?
Third, ... just seriously?
Second, how does limiting a consumer's choice really fit into the whole anti-monopoly thing?
Third, ... just seriously?
20
Clearly, almost nobody actually followed the link and read the article. The issue is that the US continues, despite them being incredibly unpopular, to produce dollar coins. As a result, there's $1.2B "worth" of dollar coins sitting around taking up warehouse space and not being circulated.
Refusing to create and distribute paper dollars for a couple years has a marginal savings effect solely because we've already made the coins.
My personal concern is (I expect) the same as what makes them unpopular in the first place: our wallets are all made for bills. If we scratch all the bill and replace them with coins, then we'll find different ways to carry our money. As is, though, the dollar coins are just extra-heavy pocket change.
Refusing to create and distribute paper dollars for a couple years has a marginal savings effect solely because we've already made the coins.
My personal concern is (I expect) the same as what makes them unpopular in the first place: our wallets are all made for bills. If we scratch all the bill and replace them with coins, then we'll find different ways to carry our money. As is, though, the dollar coins are just extra-heavy pocket change.
21
Yes. Please get rid of paper dollars. I've been saying this for years. Also, get rid of the penny. It's really a no-brainer. Getting rid of the nickel is a marginally more interesting argument, but I think it should go, too.
22
Coins are annoying. I hate them when I travel. They take up way more space than bills, weigh more, make more noise, are easily confused and dropped, and offer no real benefit save for the few times I year I use a vending machine.
23
@17:
No worse than having 15 folded $1 bills bulking up the wallet in my back pocket and giving me backaches whenever I sit on it.
No worse than having 15 folded $1 bills bulking up the wallet in my back pocket and giving me backaches whenever I sit on it.
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I hate dealing with Loonies and Toonies when I go to Canada - I keep dollars in my wallet and throw all change into my purse, where I scoop them out at the end of the week and fill my laundry jar (quarters) and stick the rest in an old wine carafe to deposit in a savings account at the end of the year. Sticking dollar coins into the mix will be pretty annoying - but it's true, take away the paper dollars and I'd get used to it pretty quickly.
30
The original article suggests that the only reason is to encourage people to use up the wasted stockpile of unwanted coins. Others here have given more sophisticated explanations (paper dollars are cheaper to produce individually but wear out a lot faster, and therefore are more expensive in the long run).
The NPR article suggests a solution is to halt production of the dollar coins until the reserves are used up. Dan's article suggests halting paper until the coin reserves are depleted. It sounds like some politicians are advocating for whatever is produced in their districts as the best approach.
I for one like paper dollars (though I used to use the coins regularly on public transit until we started using a credit-card type system). I admit I like them for a rather shallow reason: it's easier to tip go-go boys with paper money than coins. And if I have to tip with a $2 (hard to find) or a $5, it's much less likely to happen. So those boy go-go boys will have their undies sag to their ankles with the weight of all those coins, which is fine by me but might violate California's full frontal nudity in bars restrictions.
Also, quite a lot of devices accept paper money but not dollar coins, including the new pool tables my favorite watering hole is getting. (Current one takes 4 quarters. I believe the new one only takes dollar bills.)
The NPR article suggests a solution is to halt production of the dollar coins until the reserves are used up. Dan's article suggests halting paper until the coin reserves are depleted. It sounds like some politicians are advocating for whatever is produced in their districts as the best approach.
I for one like paper dollars (though I used to use the coins regularly on public transit until we started using a credit-card type system). I admit I like them for a rather shallow reason: it's easier to tip go-go boys with paper money than coins. And if I have to tip with a $2 (hard to find) or a $5, it's much less likely to happen. So those boy go-go boys will have their undies sag to their ankles with the weight of all those coins, which is fine by me but might violate California's full frontal nudity in bars restrictions.
Also, quite a lot of devices accept paper money but not dollar coins, including the new pool tables my favorite watering hole is getting. (Current one takes 4 quarters. I believe the new one only takes dollar bills.)
32
Yeah, but try rolling up a dollar coin to snort coke. It's a lot harder, trust me.
Seriously though I see no personal advantage to the dollar coins over dollar bills. Bills are lighter, easier to carry, pack up smaller, fit in my wallet and if I want to carry a pile of them (or just get a lot of change) they pull down my pants. Also, if I have a hole in my pocket my bills are probably fine but the coins are goners. I don't see why anybody would prefer the coins.
As for the government, paper bills are clearly cheaper to produce and distribute. Sure, the coins last longer so there may be a long term advantage to it but it would have to be a huge difference to make it worth it. If there is a huge advantage then let's replace all of our paper with coin. I carry a lot of $1's so that would get heavy but I don't carry many $50's so I'm perfectly happy making those into coins.
I don't care if the idea was proposed by David Koch, Obama or Jesus, it still seems like a bad idea.
@13 (I know everybody, I shouldn't feed the trolls) There are plenty of things to dislike Barack Obama for. There are even some good reasons to not like Michelle but calling her fat? She's clearly quite skinny and though I don't find her face attractive personally she's got a great body. It's especially bizarre when I hear Jabba the Limbaugh complain about her weight when he probably needs 3 aides just to pry his fat ass out of his chair.
Seriously though I see no personal advantage to the dollar coins over dollar bills. Bills are lighter, easier to carry, pack up smaller, fit in my wallet and if I want to carry a pile of them (or just get a lot of change) they pull down my pants. Also, if I have a hole in my pocket my bills are probably fine but the coins are goners. I don't see why anybody would prefer the coins.
As for the government, paper bills are clearly cheaper to produce and distribute. Sure, the coins last longer so there may be a long term advantage to it but it would have to be a huge difference to make it worth it. If there is a huge advantage then let's replace all of our paper with coin. I carry a lot of $1's so that would get heavy but I don't carry many $50's so I'm perfectly happy making those into coins.
I don't care if the idea was proposed by David Koch, Obama or Jesus, it still seems like a bad idea.
@13 (I know everybody, I shouldn't feed the trolls) There are plenty of things to dislike Barack Obama for. There are even some good reasons to not like Michelle but calling her fat? She's clearly quite skinny and though I don't find her face attractive personally she's got a great body. It's especially bizarre when I hear Jabba the Limbaugh complain about her weight when he probably needs 3 aides just to pry his fat ass out of his chair.
33
@24 - I keep my $1s in my jeans pocket and the larger bills in my wallet. Makes it easier to tip at the airport, buy $2 shots from shot boys, and tip go-go dancers and drag queens. I've done this for 10 years now. The other day, I was running now on cash in my wallet, but fortunately I had $35 in crumpled bills in my pocket.
35
I like paper dollars. As part of the tip economy I'd much rather walk around with a wad of twenty $1 bills in my pocket than twenty $1 coins. Also, I think the $1 coin is psychologically and practically inflationary. NOTHING will be less than a dollar once the paper dollar goes. My opinion on this is personal experience based and has nothing to do with politics, but I suppose here is where I should say, "Keep your government hands off my currency!"
36
@14 - Do you have a source on the 2 years? Checking my own wallet, the bulk of the contents are 2006. I have a couple twenties from 2004, which coincides with the redesign--I believe that all bills prior to that are flagged for destruction. I have a five from 2003, the year of that bill's redesign, and it's beat up enough that I don't expect a bank is likely to recirculate it once desposited. I have three singles, a 2009 and two 2006s. One of the latter is fairly mint, the other badly stained, but intact other than some wrinkling. My oldest bill is a 1996 hundred, but those don't really circulate.
I'm not suggesting that paper lasts as long as coinage, that's ridiculous. But I feel like the average lifetime is probably more like 5 years than 2.
I'm not suggesting that paper lasts as long as coinage, that's ridiculous. But I feel like the average lifetime is probably more like 5 years than 2.
37
Also, how the hell am I supposed to slip dollar coins into a thong? She'd have to keep running back to empty them out or else she'd look like she was wearing a full diaper which just isn't my personal fetish.
40
Y'all know it worked out just fine in Canada, right? It's closer than Portland, you should visit sometime.
41
Whenever I'm in Canada, I'll end up accidentally giving a panhandler five bucks or so, when my intent was just to give him some pocket change. The beggars will love the dollar coin.
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@33, that's not something most men do, straight or gay. Do you, or any of the other "I hate coins" crowd have anything more compelling than your inconvenience?
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@21 - Please DON'T get rid of the penny. It will cost you plenty in the long run.
There already is a fractional denomination never printed called the mille. It represents one tenth of a penny (10 milles = one penny). Gas stations often set their prices per gallon to the tenth of a penny. Cigarette taxes do, too, so that the tax is really calculated by cigarette rather than by pack (in the legislation, at least, if not really by practice). Banks calculated interest to the mille.
But the thing is, because the mille isn't a printed currency, they always, always, always round in their favor. Banks round down when paying you interest and up when charging you interest, even if it means they keep nine-tenths of a penny each time. That seems inconsequential when you're talking about less than a penny, but the banks make millions and millions of dollars when calculating that across so many transactions.
Now imagine if we eliminate the penny. That discrepancy now goes up ten times. (Probably only five times because of the nickel, but still...)
Every time you go to the store, you'd be able to pay the regular price if you charge it or put it on a debit card, but that's not always possible. If you pay cash, they're likely going to round in their favor. Doesn't sound like much, but it will add up over the course of a day, a week, a month, a year.....
There already is a fractional denomination never printed called the mille. It represents one tenth of a penny (10 milles = one penny). Gas stations often set their prices per gallon to the tenth of a penny. Cigarette taxes do, too, so that the tax is really calculated by cigarette rather than by pack (in the legislation, at least, if not really by practice). Banks calculated interest to the mille.
But the thing is, because the mille isn't a printed currency, they always, always, always round in their favor. Banks round down when paying you interest and up when charging you interest, even if it means they keep nine-tenths of a penny each time. That seems inconsequential when you're talking about less than a penny, but the banks make millions and millions of dollars when calculating that across so many transactions.
Now imagine if we eliminate the penny. That discrepancy now goes up ten times. (Probably only five times because of the nickel, but still...)
Every time you go to the store, you'd be able to pay the regular price if you charge it or put it on a debit card, but that's not always possible. If you pay cash, they're likely going to round in their favor. Doesn't sound like much, but it will add up over the course of a day, a week, a month, a year.....
47
Didn't Willy Wonka have hands for hooks, in his entryway? Perhaps that's a sign Amurrica should go to a medium of exchange centering on chocolate bars and golden tickets.
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@36, will you accept the word of the Federal Reserve and the US Mint? I know, Ron Paulistas may have trouble with that?
The average lifespan of a $1 bill is 21 months; $5, 16 months; $10, 18 months; $20, 24 months. The average lifespan of a coin is 25 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Res…
http://www.usmint.gov/faqs/circulating_c…
The average lifespan of a $1 bill is 21 months; $5, 16 months; $10, 18 months; $20, 24 months. The average lifespan of a coin is 25 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Res…
http://www.usmint.gov/faqs/circulating_c…
50
Yes, please get rid of one dollar bills. Permanently.
I love Canada's loonies and twonies ($1 and $2 coins).
I love Canada's loonies and twonies ($1 and $2 coins).
51
If anyone wants to get rid of their paper money, feel free to send it to me. You'll never have to deal with it again!
53
Scarabs as currency is what brought down Egypt again and again, what is a coin but a flattened out scarab? Do we freedom loving peoples who love freedom want to be like the crazy ass Egyptions?
No more obelesques, also.
No more obelesques, also.
55
I'll be over here, busily adding rivets to my pockets and reinforcing shoulder straps of backpacks/purses to deal with the extra weight...!
(I don't disagree with the arguments that coin is better/cheaper/more durable, but I do remember how f'in heavy my pockets get with those damn euros when I travel...)
(I don't disagree with the arguments that coin is better/cheaper/more durable, but I do remember how f'in heavy my pockets get with those damn euros when I travel...)
56
A lot of people up here in Canada said all the things that are being said in these comments, before we switched. then we got the coins, and within about six months, nobody remembered why they thought there would be problems. Really - there's no need to be so afraid.
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@49 - Absolutely will, but I won't take wikipedia's word for it :)
The links in the wiki article are all dead. I was able to find current information on the US Bureau of Engraving and Printing website:
Denomination ... Life Span
$1 ............... 42 months
$5 ............... 16 months
$10 ............. 18 months
$20 ............. 24 months
$50 ............. 55 months
$100 ............ 89 months
It's much more what I expected to see on the singles, but I've clearly got an atypical supply of fives and twenties.
http://www.moneyfactory.gov/faqlibrary.h…
The links in the wiki article are all dead. I was able to find current information on the US Bureau of Engraving and Printing website:
Denomination ... Life Span
$1 ............... 42 months
$5 ............... 16 months
$10 ............. 18 months
$20 ............. 24 months
$50 ............. 55 months
$100 ............ 89 months
It's much more what I expected to see on the singles, but I've clearly got an atypical supply of fives and twenties.
http://www.moneyfactory.gov/faqlibrary.h…
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@36 The series year and the date that a bill is printed is not the same. The series indicates when that current bill was designed.
Also, the date it is printed and the date it enters actual circulation (i.e. not sitting on a pallet in a reserve bank) are not the same thing.
Also, the date it is printed and the date it enters actual circulation (i.e. not sitting on a pallet in a reserve bank) are not the same thing.
60
huh, that's weird. The USBEP numbers match the wikipedia article exactly *except* for the $1 bills.
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@59 - Cool beans, didn't know that about the series dates. You learn something new every day (and if you don't, you should)
Oh, apparently it's not just design. From the BEP currency facts page:
"A new series year designation will result from a change in the Secretary of the Treasury; the Treasurer of the United States; and/or a significant change to the note's appearance such as a new currency design."
Oh, apparently it's not just design. From the BEP currency facts page:
"A new series year designation will result from a change in the Secretary of the Treasury; the Treasurer of the United States; and/or a significant change to the note's appearance such as a new currency design."
62
@32,
It's the conservative tactic of attacking their opponent's strengths. Michelle Obama is by no means skinny, but that's because she's fucking ripped. The lard asses in the Republican party thus attack her for being "unhealthy."
You can see the same thing with their potshots taken at Barack Obama for using a teleprompter (often enough those fucks are reading those "jokes" from a teleprompter). Obama is second to none for speaking off the cuff, so of course he's attacked for not doing it 24/7.
But don't fret over Lord Basil. He's a satire troll.
It's the conservative tactic of attacking their opponent's strengths. Michelle Obama is by no means skinny, but that's because she's fucking ripped. The lard asses in the Republican party thus attack her for being "unhealthy."
You can see the same thing with their potshots taken at Barack Obama for using a teleprompter (often enough those fucks are reading those "jokes" from a teleprompter). Obama is second to none for speaking off the cuff, so of course he's attacked for not doing it 24/7.
But don't fret over Lord Basil. He's a satire troll.
63
I say, go with one-dollar coins only. Nuke pennies and nickles. Require cash registers to round to the nearest dime.
The dollar bill was the smallest paper currency, and pennies were the smallest coins, back in 1920s, when everything cost less than a tenth what it costs now. If a penny was fine enough resolution on our cash transactions back in the 1920s, a dime is fine enough for us now.
I don't think the vending machine argument matters much one way or the other. It seems to me more and more vending machines are going with debit cards anyway -- a debit card reader is cheaper and less jammable than a dollar bill reader.
The dollar bill was the smallest paper currency, and pennies were the smallest coins, back in 1920s, when everything cost less than a tenth what it costs now. If a penny was fine enough resolution on our cash transactions back in the 1920s, a dime is fine enough for us now.
I don't think the vending machine argument matters much one way or the other. It seems to me more and more vending machines are going with debit cards anyway -- a debit card reader is cheaper and less jammable than a dollar bill reader.
64
@61 - Yeah, but that's sort of the same thing because changing the name of the Secretary of the Treasury, for example, is in effect a design change. (I know, I'm splitting hairs...they could choose to wait until some other form of design change was needed but I'm sure anyone who reaches that level of power just can't wait to see their name in print like that.)
65
Any coins in my pocket wind up in a jar at the end of the day. Neither my wallet nor my pockets are designed for carrying coins. I guess my trips to the coinstar would be more lucrative, but I can forsee all sorts of minor inconveniences that would add up real quick if I didn't have a few dollars handy. No thank you.
67
This coin idea is just another one of them crazy pinko ideas that we here in 'Murka are way to good for, like socialized medicine, the metric system, an effective multi-party system....
It'll never work I tell ya.
It'll never work I tell ya.
68
@55, the reason that you, and everyone else in this country, has this problem when you go to the Euro zone or the UK, is because you don't know how to spend coins properly, because your coins are all practically worthless. Seriously, a quarter today has much less buying power than a nickel back in the Eisenhower/Kennedy years. A pocketful of US change is garbage, that we keep hold of for purely sentimental reasons. Remember what parking meters were like right before they switched to cards? Or laundromats? Talk about weighed-down pockets -- a roll of quarters per day is a stupid way to live.
No rational American uses coins for real transactions, except to make exact change.
Euros and Brits (and Canadians) know better -- their coins have actual value, and so instead of dropping them in their pocket and forgetting them, they use them to buy stuff -- valuable stuff. You can spot the American in a foreign coffeehouse because he's the one pulling out a crisp new bill to pay for the two lattes, whereas your savvy Canuck or Welshman is pawing through his coins -- and finding what he needs.
When's the last time you bought a beer in a bar with coins? The bartender would look at you like you're nuts. Who wants to count four bucks or more in quarters, nickels, dimes? If we had a $2 coin, boom -- a couple of those, maybe another to make weight. Coins would get USED.
You'd still get your tips. Now, how do you react when you see that your table left you coins for a tip? Outrage. By definition it's either an insulting amount or a lunatic waste of time to count the fuckers. Ten bucks in quarters? Mental. If you tried that in MY restaurant (if I had a restaurant) I'd bar you for life.
Coins in this country are worthless. They don't have to be. If they had value we'd pay attention to them. They wouldn't pile up in your pocket or in jars on the dresser. People's pockets in Germany or Scotland or Canada aren't any more worn out than ours -- probably less.
More...
No rational American uses coins for real transactions, except to make exact change.
Euros and Brits (and Canadians) know better -- their coins have actual value, and so instead of dropping them in their pocket and forgetting them, they use them to buy stuff -- valuable stuff. You can spot the American in a foreign coffeehouse because he's the one pulling out a crisp new bill to pay for the two lattes, whereas your savvy Canuck or Welshman is pawing through his coins -- and finding what he needs.
When's the last time you bought a beer in a bar with coins? The bartender would look at you like you're nuts. Who wants to count four bucks or more in quarters, nickels, dimes? If we had a $2 coin, boom -- a couple of those, maybe another to make weight. Coins would get USED.
You'd still get your tips. Now, how do you react when you see that your table left you coins for a tip? Outrage. By definition it's either an insulting amount or a lunatic waste of time to count the fuckers. Ten bucks in quarters? Mental. If you tried that in MY restaurant (if I had a restaurant) I'd bar you for life.
Coins in this country are worthless. They don't have to be. If they had value we'd pay attention to them. They wouldn't pile up in your pocket or in jars on the dresser. People's pockets in Germany or Scotland or Canada aren't any more worn out than ours -- probably less.
69
But...but...what will hardworking American men stuff into G-stings? What about them and their FREEDOM!!1!!11!
71
While we're at it, I'd like to see a little more color in paper bills, too. A little red, a little blue. All that green gets tiresome.
72
Thanks Fnarf. You are correct. And finding change in an old coat is way more lucrative.
I guess I'm used to it as a Canadian, but we had these same arguments. Now it drives me slightly (more) nuts in the US when a) in a dark bar I can't tell the difference between ones and tens & b) I have to pull a wad of cash out of my wallet and sort through a bunch of (relatively) worthless ones to get to a more meaningful denomination to pay with. Can't imagine store clerks like sorting through a wad of ones anymore than I like counting them out, especially when they are so often tatered and worn.
I guess I'm used to it as a Canadian, but we had these same arguments. Now it drives me slightly (more) nuts in the US when a) in a dark bar I can't tell the difference between ones and tens & b) I have to pull a wad of cash out of my wallet and sort through a bunch of (relatively) worthless ones to get to a more meaningful denomination to pay with. Can't imagine store clerks like sorting through a wad of ones anymore than I like counting them out, especially when they are so often tatered and worn.
73
This is a vote for a serious push behind $1, $2 and maybe even $5 coins.
The argument that they are 'unpopular' is absurd; you have to get them into circulation *before* they can be popular.
+1 Tea Party, -1 John Kerry.
...now I hate myself.
The argument that they are 'unpopular' is absurd; you have to get them into circulation *before* they can be popular.
+1 Tea Party, -1 John Kerry.
...now I hate myself.
76
In Japan, the 500 yen coin, or roughly $5, is about the size of our dollar coin. I lived there and I've been back often, and have always found the 100 and 500 yen coins awesome and convenient.
And what the ever-loving fuck is this about Michelle Obama. She's lean and well-toned from head to toe. Not an inch of fat on her. This is as absurd as watching Tina Fey's character in 30 Rock claim to need Spanx to fit into a dress when she's Hollywood thin.
And what the ever-loving fuck is this about Michelle Obama. She's lean and well-toned from head to toe. Not an inch of fat on her. This is as absurd as watching Tina Fey's character in 30 Rock claim to need Spanx to fit into a dress when she's Hollywood thin.
77
We still haven't switched to the fucking metric system yet. There's no way we're going to dollar coins.
78
OMG the US Treasury is ILLEGAL and UNCONSTITUTIONAL and if we elect RONPAULROFL he will ABOLISH THE TREASURY and we will all live in blissful FREEDOM and use BITCOINS and barter AMMUNITION for our HOT POCKETS and CAFFEINE WATER.
79
@19
Yes, it is actual paper. Actual paper made of cotton and linen. While typically from wood, paper can be made from just about any cellulitic fibrous material.
Yes, it is actual paper. Actual paper made of cotton and linen. While typically from wood, paper can be made from just about any cellulitic fibrous material.
80
Lots of people have given good examples of how larger denomination coins work in Europe and Canada, which fits my experience well.
I've also experienced the opposite extreme: in Vietnam, the smallest denomination bill is 5000 Dong, which is worth about $0.30 (or at least it was when I was there.) Now, you can buy a lot more for $0.30 in Vietnam than you can here (a beer is typically 15,000 to 20,000 Dong) but still...the coins there really are pretty much worthless. So you end up with a wallet FULL of bills, in a dizzying array of denominations (I think I had them all the way up to 200,000), that you have to file through every time you pay for stuff.
That's not much fun, either.
I've also experienced the opposite extreme: in Vietnam, the smallest denomination bill is 5000 Dong, which is worth about $0.30 (or at least it was when I was there.) Now, you can buy a lot more for $0.30 in Vietnam than you can here (a beer is typically 15,000 to 20,000 Dong) but still...the coins there really are pretty much worthless. So you end up with a wallet FULL of bills, in a dizzying array of denominations (I think I had them all the way up to 200,000), that you have to file through every time you pay for stuff.
That's not much fun, either.
81
Everybody knows you can easily add a card reader to your smart phones, right?
Coins, paper money? It's all antiquated vestiges of the soon forgotten past.
(Of course, this implies a certain level of trust in technology and banks. That might not sit well with the people currently hoarding their gold.)
Coins, paper money? It's all antiquated vestiges of the soon forgotten past.
(Of course, this implies a certain level of trust in technology and banks. That might not sit well with the people currently hoarding their gold.)
83
Pretty much any vending machine or other money accepting device either already can handle the $1 coin (they've been around for almost 35 years) or can easily be modified to do so. $1 bill acceptors exist but are generally more expensive and less reliable than coin acceptors (just ask anybody who has gone through a wallet full of wrinkly notes trying to find one that will let him buy a Pepsi.)
Many of the places where a $1 coin would be most useful are, however, going away. Parking meters take credit cards, slot machines print out tickets, tolls and fares are paid by RFID-based cards, and so on. I guess laundromats and self-serve car washes are the places where $1 coins would still be a win.
Many of the places where a $1 coin would be most useful are, however, going away. Parking meters take credit cards, slot machines print out tickets, tolls and fares are paid by RFID-based cards, and so on. I guess laundromats and self-serve car washes are the places where $1 coins would still be a win.
85
I should note, as someone in the comments of the original article said, that many stores refuse to accept the $1 coins. I used to have a bunch left over from when Muni switched from dollar coins to the Clipper card, and they were a bitch to get rid of because clerks didn't recognize them and thought they were Canadian.
Though I imagine any effort to phase out bills for coins would include a public education campaign as well.
Though I imagine any effort to phase out bills for coins would include a public education campaign as well.
86
Here's an idea for all of you coin weight fearing commenters: smaller coins. What's with the massive size of our quarters and dollar coins? Why can't they all be close to the dime in size? And what the hell is the nickel doing larger than the dime?
88
The US should stop making one-dollar bills, but leave the old ones in circulation. Those folks who really need their folding singles can keep using the ragged washed-out bills, and everyone else can get over it and use the coins.
Oh, and people--start tipping strippers bigger bills. You know what they say: the size of the bill is the size of the man.
Oh, and people--start tipping strippers bigger bills. You know what they say: the size of the bill is the size of the man.
89
@86, That would just make them easier to lose. But my concern is the awkwardness of coins, not the weight. I hate dimes as much as quarters.
90
@81
Seeing that my iPhone knows where I am at any given moment and can track what I do on my phone, no, I don't feel comfortable handling all my financial transactions via smartphone.
Seeing that my iPhone knows where I am at any given moment and can track what I do on my phone, no, I don't feel comfortable handling all my financial transactions via smartphone.
93
come to canada. we've had dollar (and two dollar) coins for ages. makes paying the parking metre a lot easier plus tipping girls at the bar.
strippers have a hard time: i know one girl who uses a big magnet stick to pick up the coins thrown at her.
strippers have a hard time: i know one girl who uses a big magnet stick to pick up the coins thrown at her.
94
How about the public health angle of all of the creepy crawlies that hang out so easily on paper money, but have to contend with a non-porous, smaller surface on coins? A paper dollar gets handled by oodles of people, and it's a nicely absorbent surface.
As for pennies, I have been saying for years, "Change is inevitable, but pennies are a fucking nuisance."
As for pennies, I have been saying for years, "Change is inevitable, but pennies are a fucking nuisance."
95
@33
I thought they were just bitchy by nature to everyone; hadn't figured they might just be pissed at me for having stiffed them.
I keep my $1s in my jeans pocket and the larger bills in my wallet. Makes it easier to tip at the airport, buy $2 shots from shot boys, and tip go-go dancers and drag queens.All this time I was supposed to be tipping them? Even for merely passing them on the street?
I thought they were just bitchy by nature to everyone; hadn't figured they might just be pissed at me for having stiffed them.
96
The very last thing in this world I need is more metal rattling around in my pocket. This is a lousy idea.
97
My favorite tale from back in the Susan B. Anthony dollar coin days: the leader of the Congressional opposition to eliminating the dollar bill and going with coins, to save hundreds of millions of dollars a year, was that douchebag Kennedy who was in Congress from Rhode Island. He argued, with a straight face, that the dollar coin movement was a ploy by the vending machine industry to raise prices. Like he'd ever used a vending machine. Had he done so, he would have noticed that THEY TAKE DOLLAR BILLS.
Actually, the real parallel: nationalized health care. All civilized industrial nations except the USA have it. And none of them have paper bills for their lowest full unit of currency (Euro, Pound, Canadian or Australian dollar. . . ).
So, let's connect the dots. . . no dollar coin, no health insurance. Must be a 'spiracy here somewhere
Actually, the real parallel: nationalized health care. All civilized industrial nations except the USA have it. And none of them have paper bills for their lowest full unit of currency (Euro, Pound, Canadian or Australian dollar. . . ).
So, let's connect the dots. . . no dollar coin, no health insurance. Must be a 'spiracy here somewhere
98
@ 84, you forgot your smiley emoticon to designate a joke or lighthearted comment @ 33. See @ 95.
99
@ 97, what vending machine accepted dollar bills in 1979? Cans of pop and candy bars were 30¢ then. Cigarette machines required quarters - something I remember from my shortlived smoking habit in the mid-80s. The only machines I remember accepting dollars were change machines at the laundromat and token exchangers at the arcade. Heck, even the detergent vending machines in laudromats wanted quarters.
100
You guys! The US has had dollar coins since 1794. Am I the only one who has a love for the Flowing Hair, Draped Bust, Liberty Seated, Trade, Morgan, Peace, Eisenhower... No?
Oh well. Maybe I'm the only Slogger who has a tattoo on a 1916 Liberty Standing quarter or a US type set. And to talk about a tiny coin try the 3 cent piece silver (1851-73).
Sign me up for being in favor of dollar coins and universal health care.
Oh well. Maybe I'm the only Slogger who has a tattoo on a 1916 Liberty Standing quarter or a US type set. And to talk about a tiny coin try the 3 cent piece silver (1851-73).
Sign me up for being in favor of dollar coins and universal health care.
102
If there's one thing I fucking, FUCKING hate about Canada is their dollar coins. I hate coins in general much less dollar+ coins. I hate how much the weigh, I hate their bulk. I don't want any fucking loonies or toonies in this country. I am highly skeptical about any cost savings as well. Sorry, on this idea, I have to say, fuck that shit. How about making electronic purchases cheaper instead for merchants?
103
I disagree with the argument that coins are easier to lose. I find that bills get all crunched up in my purse (they kinda float freely around in there because I`m lazy like that). Coins you can feel where they are. And you can usually hear them when you drop them. They do have the tendency to roll away though.
And as far as weight goes, how many coins are you carrying?? 5-$1 dollar coins = 1-$5 bill.
In any case, I rarely carry cash anyways. One little piece of plastic is all I need.
And as far as weight goes, how many coins are you carrying?? 5-$1 dollar coins = 1-$5 bill.
In any case, I rarely carry cash anyways. One little piece of plastic is all I need.
104
@80, the last time I was in Vietnam, the smallest denomination I ended up with was a 100 Dong note, which at the time was worth ~$.006. Outside of being something cool to give as a gift upon my return, they were just ANNOYING. The largest bill I had was 500,000 Dong (about $28). ANNOYING, ANNOYING, ANNOYING. Especially considering I had just come from Hong Kong and was passing back through on my way home and had a fairly compact pile of $2, $5, and $10 HKD coins on hand. My only caveat to preferring the coins: the 10 HKD bill, while not common, is exceptionally pretty (here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dcmaster/47…). I do hope they don't stop printing them for that reason alone (although it looks like they may stop printing them with the new series...will have to hoard them as I come across them). While it takes a little getting used to using the coins if you're used to paper currency, once your wallet gets kinda heavy it's just natural to dig around in there and see what you've got, and SO much more convenient to drop a coin or two into a bus fare box or whatnot once you get the hang of the coins.
105
Who the hell uses paper money at anything other than strip clubs and farm stands any more? Or, I suppose, at farmer stripping stands...
106
Just wondering why everyone is so worried about carrying a heavy amount of change around. People actually still carry paper money? All I carry around is my debit card, been that way for years and years. Bills are only for when I travel...
107
@106: Well, then, I guess you never ride a bus. Or buy anything out of a vending machine. Or stop by the local convenience store (you know, the one with the sign that says "No Credit Card Purchases Under $5"). Must be nice.
109
Why would you ever want to replace the paper dollar? Have you actually traveled abroad? In most countries, including Canada, your wallet is HEAVY and THICK and UNCOMFORTABLE and UNWIELDY with coins. Ugh! In the U.S., on the other hand, my wallet is light as a feather.
110
I don't know of one single server that is ever happy to be paid in pirate gold.
What exactly is wrong with the paper dollar?
What exactly is wrong with the paper dollar?
111
@ 109, do you think the natives of those countries go around carrying all that cash? Or maybe it's just the tourists who change $1000 into the local currency at a time? Do you carry that kind of money when you're home now?
112
the ones, fives, tens, and twenties in my wallet right now are all from the 2006 series. Coins are from '77, '94, '95, '99, '02, and '06.
My pocket is already kinda heavy from change; transferring the 4-8 $1 bills I usually have to coins would be heavier and take longer to sort through (I organize my wallet by denomination, so it's fast to grab bills). I see no usage advantages to coins of any kind (of course, I can see perfectly well, so I don't need to ID denominations by touch).
If the cost savings are that significant, why produce bills at all? Also, while we're at it, let's ditch the penny; I haven't seen anything that costs less than $.05 in at least a decade, and there's really no reason to have a denomination smaller than lowest real price of goods (the same random-distribution-of-rounding principle that makes rounding tenths and hundredths of cents away acceptable can apply to any denomination). I'd probably use dollar coins more if people would actually accept them always (as they're legally obligated to do) and I got them more, and we'd definitely have to ramp up $5 bill production and distribution, but I think we'd all adapt to the shift pretty quickly. The real question is how a disinterested analysis of the costs/benefits for production breaks down.
My pocket is already kinda heavy from change; transferring the 4-8 $1 bills I usually have to coins would be heavier and take longer to sort through (I organize my wallet by denomination, so it's fast to grab bills). I see no usage advantages to coins of any kind (of course, I can see perfectly well, so I don't need to ID denominations by touch).
If the cost savings are that significant, why produce bills at all? Also, while we're at it, let's ditch the penny; I haven't seen anything that costs less than $.05 in at least a decade, and there's really no reason to have a denomination smaller than lowest real price of goods (the same random-distribution-of-rounding principle that makes rounding tenths and hundredths of cents away acceptable can apply to any denomination). I'd probably use dollar coins more if people would actually accept them always (as they're legally obligated to do) and I got them more, and we'd definitely have to ramp up $5 bill production and distribution, but I think we'd all adapt to the shift pretty quickly. The real question is how a disinterested analysis of the costs/benefits for production breaks down.
113
Matt, I want you to go to the bank today and buy a roll of $1 coins. Carry them and spend them instead of dollar bills and report back to us.
114
@ 113, that's silly. If we have $1 coins, no one is going to carry more than a few at once. The dreaded pocket weight all y'all are dreading would keep you, for example, from accumulating fifteen of them. Unless you're also known to accumulate up to $5 in quarters, in which case you have a problem for which the currency collection is only a symptom.
BTW, I use my debit card for most purchases. Those places that "require" a minimum of $5? They can't do that, or else the credit card processors get REALLY grumpy with them when someone complains. (Still, I don't do that to mom and pop places when making small purchases; but the ones I patronize most are liquor stores, and who buys less that $5 of goods there anyway?)
BTW, I use my debit card for most purchases. Those places that "require" a minimum of $5? They can't do that, or else the credit card processors get REALLY grumpy with them when someone complains. (Still, I don't do that to mom and pop places when making small purchases; but the ones I patronize most are liquor stores, and who buys less that $5 of goods there anyway?)
115
Like an aquaintance said about the toonie back in 1996: toonies make a poor man rich and rich man poor. Meaning: your wallet's bill compartment is almost empty, but if you have a bunch of toonies, then you could have $10 or more in coins. In contrast, if you're used to a bulky bill compartment, it feels like you have less money cuz it's in coins.
But c'mon USA, one-dollar coins and two-collar coins are nothing to be afraid of. If Canada can do it, you can too. Just like public health care. Oh, wait...
But c'mon USA, one-dollar coins and two-collar coins are nothing to be afraid of. If Canada can do it, you can too. Just like public health care. Oh, wait...
117
As a Canadian, I'm sitting here and quietly chuckling about the subject. Why? Because so many commenters are protesting about the fearful prospect of carrying around massive volumes of coinage. Based on current practices, when they proffer a bill and receive change, I don't believe they actually reuse that change. It accumulates in pockets until it can be transferred to that well in the caddy next to the driver's seat in a car, and finally to the kitchen counter or dresser top until it is finally counted and rolled and taken to the bank.
But imagine starting your day out with a few bills and a reasonable amount of coinage. If your purchase is small, then ... [builds to a dramatic moment] You. Actually. Count. Out. The. Exact. Coins. To. Pay. For. Your. Purchase. That way, you actually spend the coins instead of accumulating them. The only downside is that you have to expend (OMG) a wee bit of time and effort. Which is regained because the cashier doesn't have to make change or slow you down even further to crack open a new roll of coins. Such a system should result in a more natural flow of coins between retailers and consumers.
Though many people like their indirect method of banking the coins, I personally feel it's mere laziness that plays the most important part.
I know most people in Canada were quite excited by the proposed change to coinage and one aspect of that was the choice of the Loon on one side (hence, the name "Loonie"). OTOH, I also remember that the introduction of the Anthony dollar coin in the U.S. was greeted less warmly, because its use presumably would have implied support for the feminist movement. So the controversy certainly derailed getting it into widespread circulation. But present the public with a competition to design a new coin and people will be more likely to get involved.
Well, that's just my Two Dollars' Worth (A Twoonie ::sighs, as I was in favour of calling it a Doubloon::).
More...
But imagine starting your day out with a few bills and a reasonable amount of coinage. If your purchase is small, then ... [builds to a dramatic moment] You. Actually. Count. Out. The. Exact. Coins. To. Pay. For. Your. Purchase. That way, you actually spend the coins instead of accumulating them. The only downside is that you have to expend (OMG) a wee bit of time and effort. Which is regained because the cashier doesn't have to make change or slow you down even further to crack open a new roll of coins. Such a system should result in a more natural flow of coins between retailers and consumers.
Though many people like their indirect method of banking the coins, I personally feel it's mere laziness that plays the most important part.
I know most people in Canada were quite excited by the proposed change to coinage and one aspect of that was the choice of the Loon on one side (hence, the name "Loonie"). OTOH, I also remember that the introduction of the Anthony dollar coin in the U.S. was greeted less warmly, because its use presumably would have implied support for the feminist movement. So the controversy certainly derailed getting it into widespread circulation. But present the public with a competition to design a new coin and people will be more likely to get involved.
Well, that's just my Two Dollars' Worth (A Twoonie ::sighs, as I was in favour of calling it a Doubloon::).
120
#68, well said. It's also how you can spot the Europeans (like me) in the US - we're the suckers that actually, out of old habit, USE the change to pay in exact amounts.
Or even worse, we're the ones that stress out the cashiers by giving them $6.22 when the item cost $5.97. That just stops most of them dead in their tracks.
Or even worse, we're the ones that stress out the cashiers by giving them $6.22 when the item cost $5.97. That just stops most of them dead in their tracks.
121
@68 - wasn't there a Dilbert cartoon along those lines? "Here, I'll give you 6.22 to make it easier..."
That seems to be the difference between Americans, and those who use coins for small bills - rather than looking at the coins as 'change', we look at them as 'money', and spend them.
As a woman, I just throw coins loose into my purse. When I'm headed to the cash register, I give my purse a shake, and all the heavy coins fall to the bottom, where they are easily scooped out and used. If I don't come up with enough loonies and toonies on the first try, I know that what's left is just light dimes and so on, and don't have to bother hunting through it - just pull out a five instead. I'd have to say I know have less annoying change then back when we had one dollar bills, because now I'm in the habit of using my coins.l
That seems to be the difference between Americans, and those who use coins for small bills - rather than looking at the coins as 'change', we look at them as 'money', and spend them.
As a woman, I just throw coins loose into my purse. When I'm headed to the cash register, I give my purse a shake, and all the heavy coins fall to the bottom, where they are easily scooped out and used. If I don't come up with enough loonies and toonies on the first try, I know that what's left is just light dimes and so on, and don't have to bother hunting through it - just pull out a five instead. I'd have to say I know have less annoying change then back when we had one dollar bills, because now I'm in the habit of using my coins.l
123
I'm someone who likes to use up the spare change in my pocket to get back paper dollars.
Say my total comes to $2.20 for my morning coffee. If I give the cashier in the US a $5 bill and two dimes, and I get back three, foldable, lightweight ones in change... Sweet! It's kind of like a game to me to see how much coinage I can get rid of.
I discovered this does not work so well for me in Canada. One has to make sure one is giving the cashier enough over your total to get a FIVE back in change if you want paper currency back. Otherwise with all the loonies and toonies you get back, you can end up with the same number of coins you started with, only heavier ones! If I gave the cashier that $5 and two dimes in Canada, I'd get a loonie and a toonie back - the same number of coins I just tried to give away, 'cept HEAVIER! (I felt pretty stupid the first time it happened to me! lol).
I was collecting so many coins in Canada that I eventually had to break down and buy a coin-gina...
http://www.amazon.com/Lucky-Line-94101-S…
Say my total comes to $2.20 for my morning coffee. If I give the cashier in the US a $5 bill and two dimes, and I get back three, foldable, lightweight ones in change... Sweet! It's kind of like a game to me to see how much coinage I can get rid of.
I discovered this does not work so well for me in Canada. One has to make sure one is giving the cashier enough over your total to get a FIVE back in change if you want paper currency back. Otherwise with all the loonies and toonies you get back, you can end up with the same number of coins you started with, only heavier ones! If I gave the cashier that $5 and two dimes in Canada, I'd get a loonie and a toonie back - the same number of coins I just tried to give away, 'cept HEAVIER! (I felt pretty stupid the first time it happened to me! lol).
I was collecting so many coins in Canada that I eventually had to break down and buy a coin-gina...
http://www.amazon.com/Lucky-Line-94101-S…
124
Bzzt. Wrong. Dollar coins are more expensive to produce, transport, and spend. They are more expensive to decommission and recycle, easier to counterfeit, and have greater collector value, which means they disappear from circulation at a higher rate than bills, giving coin currency a shorter useful life compared to bills than their raw durability might suggest. It's a stupid idea because it's stupid, not because Tea Partiers support the idea; indeed, one might suggest that Tea Partiers support returning to coin because it's a stupid idea.
126
@114: No, actually, they are allowed to require a minimum of up to $10: http://www.mightybargainhunter.com/2010/…
@112: No, no one is legally obligated to accept those stupid dollar coins. Hopefully no one will take them, and people should take a hint from the fact that no one wants those idiotic things right now. The way it works is that if you already owe a debt, then if the person you owe refuses US currency, the debt is cancelled. But if you're trying to buy something, you don't owe a debt, and the person can choose what terms of payment they accept.
@112: No, no one is legally obligated to accept those stupid dollar coins. Hopefully no one will take them, and people should take a hint from the fact that no one wants those idiotic things right now. The way it works is that if you already owe a debt, then if the person you owe refuses US currency, the debt is cancelled. But if you're trying to buy something, you don't owe a debt, and the person can choose what terms of payment they accept.
127
@121: I think you got it backwards... paying $6.22 for a $5.97 item gives you a quarter back in change. It really does make it easier. That was 120's point. The Dilbert cartoon was something like paying $6.69 for a $5.26 item and getting all sorts of random change back.
130
@124, if dollar coins are the only way to have a dollar, no one will hoard them. No collector value because they are in general circulation.
131
In the age of debit cards this exercise seems a little prosaic. I rarely use paper or coin. Parking, transit ect are all going to card payments.
133
Dollar bills also are a major cause of delay for public transit. We raised this issue two years ago: http://www.humantransit.org/2009/08/mund… ... Jarrett Walker, HumanTransit.org
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