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News & ArtsWednesday, September 14, 2011
Hetero Straight Kids Bullied to Death By Gays
Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 3:17 PM
"Due to the media attention being given to suicides by bullied gay and lesbian youth," writes Chris, "we have decided to create a list of straight kids who have been bullied by gays and lesbians until they were driven to take their own lives."
The list is here.
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I am very relieved there are no names on this list, and I have to say this is a very effective, impacting idea.Thank you.
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Dammit, Dan, you're totally missing the real crime, here. What we need to worry about are straight marriages ruined by homosexual deviant-activism. I'll be the one to stand up and start collating this information since nobody else has the courage to:
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nvm.
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nvm.
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@4. I actually had a guy at work tell me that the declining marriage rate in Scandinavia was due to them allowing gay marriage. "Since marriage is so much less meaningful now." I googled it, and found a very comprehensive article explaining the social trend. Not a single sentence in that article had the word "gay" in it. I sent it to him. Still waiting for a reply (please play cricket sounds here).
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I've had gay guys tell me my shoes don't match my dress. It's true I just considered returning the dress, but does that count?
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@10 Just returning the dress won't change the fact that you have zero fashion sense and are a blight on society. Just give up already. That's clearly not getting better.
Oh wait. I'm sorry, does bullying by bi-sexual women count or is this another one of those instances where we are more of an afterthought, if that?
Oh wait. I'm sorry, does bullying by bi-sexual women count or is this another one of those instances where we are more of an afterthought, if that?
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@ #9 - Please explain you comment. I have no idea what you are trying to say or how it relates to the problem of straights abusing gays.
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That looks exactly like the list of hetero marriages that have been destroyed because of gay marriage. What a coincidence.
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This list would not prove anything. Most gay/lesbian people who have bullied BECAUSE of their non-heterosexual nature have done so because social pressure was severe enough to make them lash out. Any names on this list only provide further support for GSA's, teen support groups and support against discrimination of any kind. The logic behind this list is just chocked full of fail.
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@8
Marriage is less meaningful because 5% of the population that wasn't inclined to partake of it before suddenly can? So, like, if you have 100 people in a room, and only 95 can get married, they'll be cool with it, but add 5 more and they'll be like "OH GOD DAMN OUR EXCLUSIVE CLUB IS RUINED"? And this is a reasonable position to which we should be sympathetic?
K
Also my list was of straight marriages ruined by gay marriage. There has to be something to ruin in the first place. If you flake out with a terrible excuse before you even get to that point you don’t get credit. What’s more, I’m guessing that, in this scenario, such a lukewarm willingness to commit is an indication of much greater, much more personal problems than a generalized anxiety about what some other people somewhere in the world might be doing.
Marriage is less meaningful because 5% of the population that wasn't inclined to partake of it before suddenly can? So, like, if you have 100 people in a room, and only 95 can get married, they'll be cool with it, but add 5 more and they'll be like "OH GOD DAMN OUR EXCLUSIVE CLUB IS RUINED"? And this is a reasonable position to which we should be sympathetic?
K
Also my list was of straight marriages ruined by gay marriage. There has to be something to ruin in the first place. If you flake out with a terrible excuse before you even get to that point you don’t get credit. What’s more, I’m guessing that, in this scenario, such a lukewarm willingness to commit is an indication of much greater, much more personal problems than a generalized anxiety about what some other people somewhere in the world might be doing.
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There was a closeted gay kid at my high school. His defense mechanism was to insult or bully other people. Not to death, but he was a real asshole until he finally came out. C.f. closeted GOP lawmakers.
Perhaps if he wasn't taught to think his sexual preference was abnormal, he wouldn't have projected his self-loathing on other people. But gay kids can be little fuckers too, just so you know. I'm sure there's a case of a closeted gay kid bulling a straight kid to death somewhere.
Perhaps if he wasn't taught to think his sexual preference was abnormal, he wouldn't have projected his self-loathing on other people. But gay kids can be little fuckers too, just so you know. I'm sure there's a case of a closeted gay kid bulling a straight kid to death somewhere.
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@13: Okay. I can rephrase it as 'Why keep score?' Gay kids get bullied more than straight kids because of their orientation, but gay kids can also be mean and bully the slow, clumsy, and socially awkward kids. Better to have nurturing view of all kids when it comes to bullying.
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Actually, most of the kids bullying the gays are closet-cases. But I guess that doesn't count to this list.
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Raindrop does have a point, making it about numbers instead of people does tend to create a coldness to the whole issue, and the Us Versus Them mentality is the result of that. The anti-gay idiots did just that for that reason, make it cold and calculated so people would forget these are people we're talking about and start ... well ... this. Should we really determine who wins by who can scream the loudest? The first civil rights movement was won by whispers and opposed by guns.
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Rest In Peace, Kiddo's
Justin Aaberg, July 9, 2010
Billy Lucas, September 9, 2010
Cody Barker, September 13, 2010
Seth Walsh, September 19, 2010
Tyler Clementi, September 22, 2010
Asher Brown, September 23, 2010
Raymond Chase, September 29, 2010
And too many more to list. Gone but not forgotten.
Justin Aaberg, July 9, 2010
Billy Lucas, September 9, 2010
Cody Barker, September 13, 2010
Seth Walsh, September 19, 2010
Tyler Clementi, September 22, 2010
Asher Brown, September 23, 2010
Raymond Chase, September 29, 2010
And too many more to list. Gone but not forgotten.
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They are NOT bullied to Death, they are bullied to fashion sense and hair products. Can you say Metro-sexual.
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@20: That's like excusing anti-Semitism because there are indubitably some Jews who have beat up Gentiles.
Donny Donowitz, for one.
Donny Donowitz, for one.
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@8 I tried googling for "scandinavian declining marriage rate" and the first article I found started thus:
"From 1970 to 2004 the annual number of marriages per 1,000 adult women in the United States plunged by nearly 50 per cent."
@20 I imagine the point is for the homophobes that believe it's the gay kids that are the deviant/delinquent factor. I agree this is a particular political statement that could backfire.
"From 1970 to 2004 the annual number of marriages per 1,000 adult women in the United States plunged by nearly 50 per cent."
@20 I imagine the point is for the homophobes that believe it's the gay kids that are the deviant/delinquent factor. I agree this is a particular political statement that could backfire.
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@23 - And not every kid who's bullied for being gay actually is gay, so there's the possibility this list is missing one, maybe two names.
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#19 - I was that kid (bi rather than gay). Not 'self-loathing' so much as...lacking personhood. I got saner.
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@30: You said quite distinctly that we should be worrying about bullying in general, not anti-gay bullying, because there are certainly gay kids who bully others for reasons other than sexual orientation.
The truth is that homophobic bullying is much more of a problem than other kinds of bullying because gay kids so often have such little support from school officials and sometimes even their own parents.
The truth is that homophobic bullying is much more of a problem than other kinds of bullying because gay kids so often have such little support from school officials and sometimes even their own parents.
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@30: And if you're pointing to something KittenKoder said in order to support your argument, you might as well admit defeat. He's been koding kittens for what, a week, now, and has yet to say anything that makes a lick of sense.
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@37: Since one number is positive and the other is zero, it's not so much a numbers game as an existence game.
@38: Pardon my ignorance with regard to my incorrect pronoun usage, you insane cunt.
@38: Pardon my ignorance with regard to my incorrect pronoun usage, you insane cunt.
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@39 "Pardon my ignorance with regard to my incorrect pronoun usage, you insane cunt." Much better, thank you.
However, if it's an existence game, then why are the numbers being focused on?
However, if it's an existence game, then why are the numbers being focused on?
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@20 uh,no. I've been a teacher for a decade and I have never once seen or heard of a gay kid bullying anyone. But I have dealt with homophobic kids in every class, every single year. Go ahead and tell me I'm wrong.
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Venomlash, please.
Does what I said:
They are not the same thing. Similar but not the same. I was bullied for being gay in H.S., like so many of us. I applaud the IGBP. My point is only let’s not “keep score” and build up a race to who gets to play the victim card more. And certainly KittenKoder makes a great point that it makes the discussion cold and calculated.
Does what I said:
Better to have nurturing view of all kids when it comes to bullying.Equal what you paraphrased me of saying:
…that we should be worrying about bullying in general, not anti-gay bullying, because there are certainly gay kids who bully others for reasons other than sexual orientation.
They are not the same thing. Similar but not the same. I was bullied for being gay in H.S., like so many of us. I applaud the IGBP. My point is only let’s not “keep score” and build up a race to who gets to play the victim card more. And certainly KittenKoder makes a great point that it makes the discussion cold and calculated.
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@44: The "nurturing view" bit is not the part of you comment that I had a problem with. Try again.
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Good. In all seriousness, a list like this one should exist.
As our society becomes more egalitarian with regard to GLQT, the balance of power in teenaged cultures will shift, and gays won't be at a disadvantage any more. I expect that the ratio of gays bullied by straights and straights bullied by gays will even out.
Society can change with regard to how gays and straights are perceived and treated much more easily than human nature can change. We can't get rid of the natural aggression that leads young people to treat each other like dirt.
As our society becomes more egalitarian with regard to GLQT, the balance of power in teenaged cultures will shift, and gays won't be at a disadvantage any more. I expect that the ratio of gays bullied by straights and straights bullied by gays will even out.
Society can change with regard to how gays and straights are perceived and treated much more easily than human nature can change. We can't get rid of the natural aggression that leads young people to treat each other like dirt.
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I'm sorry to have to tell you this, @venomlash, but... Donnie Donowitz isn't real. Except in our hearts, baby. He'll always be alive in our hearts.
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@19, of course -- if there are closeted gays who bully and persecute other gays (just see Republican politicians), what wouldn't they do to straight guys and gals if they could and had a reasonable pretext?
The world is a complicated place, and I'm sure there are plenty of bad people of all persuasions, sexual and otherwise.
The world is a complicated place, and I'm sure there are plenty of bad people of all persuasions, sexual and otherwise.
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@47 - there is still the issue of proportionality! I think the number Dan used at one point was approximately 7% of the population is gay. Now, if you wanted to get "proportional," eventually straights would account for ~93% of the bullying and gays for ~7%, but that is still an absurd argument....
@48 - I'm Jewish AND an engineer. I can't help it sometimes, either :-)
@48 - I'm Jewish AND an engineer. I can't help it sometimes, either :-)
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This should include gay parents, as straight parents bully their gay kids to death too.
This should include straight teachers, straight pastors, etc., under the same logic. It surely could significantly grow this list.
This should include straight teachers, straight pastors, etc., under the same logic. It surely could significantly grow this list.
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@8: This person didn't invent this argument (I've read an article about this, written by a conservative American) but as a Scandi, my interpretation of the trend is quite different. More liberal societies that are less caught up in the "correct" way to live are more likely to a) allow gay marriage, and b) embrace diversity in other ways too - less pressure to get married, more cohabiting unmarried couples, more non-traditional families of all kinds. It's not a cause, it's a common effect of the underlying live-and-let-live attitude.
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Unfortunately, there are probably closeted gay kids who have bullied other gay kids to death.
Lets help them all get along: http://www.facebook.com/nogayleftbehind
Lets help them all get along: http://www.facebook.com/nogayleftbehind
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The promblem here is that children are committing suicide because some other kid is being a jerk, it dosn't matter if they are gay or straight or bi or whatever.
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@56 This rings true, but suicide is only important to people if it's something they want to protect or are associated with, which really pisses me off because I'm part of the smallest minority and no one gives a fuck about our suicides at all in any way shape or form. New stories about transgendered are so short lived it's not even funny. The outrage .... sure, there's a bit of outrage but when a gay or christian or ... whatever person gets hurt people push and push and push all the time, burying the smallest group. Like we don't matter at all because ... we aren't a large enough minority.
For anyone that classifies trans with gay ... fuck you, no seriously, fuck you, you fucking piece of shit generalizers.
For anyone that classifies trans with gay ... fuck you, no seriously, fuck you, you fucking piece of shit generalizers.
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#19... GFY! Point is it's not an obvious problem for straight people but it is certainly for us gays. So dont project your negative self worth on anyone but yourself
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Are you fuckin kidding me?!? Homosexual's get bullied by heterosexual's, heterosexual's get bullied by homosexual's, heterosexual's get bullied by heterosexual's, and homosexual's get bullied by homosexual's.. Everyone gets bullied at some point and some take drastic measures. It doesn't matter who is doing the bullying, it just needs to stop. Not to mention the sexual orientation of the bullies has nothing to do with the matter.
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That's fucking nasty. There certainly are kids of non-specific sexual identity or sexuality being bullied to death by other people of non-specific sexuality.
The world doesn't have to be a war with the lines drawn between sexual identity.
The world doesn't have to be a war with the lines drawn between sexual identity.
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I accidentally outed a gay man when I was drunk 3 years ago & he retaliated by orchestrating my social ostracisation at work. I've considered suicide a few times, but I'm strong & have fought through.
Let's not start deluding ourselves that no Gay person person is ever mean. Feeling like a victim is a common starting point for those who wish to feel justified for cruelty. And some Gay manifestations of camp are the recycling of teenage girl bully tactics into adulthood.
Let's not start deluding ourselves that no Gay person person is ever mean. Feeling like a victim is a common starting point for those who wish to feel justified for cruelty. And some Gay manifestations of camp are the recycling of teenage girl bully tactics into adulthood.
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Sorry ... but outing someone is a pretty messed up thing to do, thanks to society still being stupid on the matter with their kids, by the time they do figure out for themselves they need to come out on their own time. As for social ostracisation .... at work? You're at work, you should be working, anyway.
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@62. It was an accident. It happened because someone overheard me talking about him at a party. I felt terrible and I apologised. As for working at work... in my field, good relationships with colleagues are critical to getting the job done. Being ostracised = being professionally crippled. This kid sabotaged my career. The film "outrage" gives countless examples of peoples lives being ruined by closeted politicians trying to cover their tracks. My story isn't rare, but I think this is a bit of a tangent from the intent of the thread, which is about the disproportionate ammount of teenage bulllying towards LGBT kids.
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Yes, this is a reality. after 911 i was arrested while attending Cypress College, by a Lesbian PE Dean. She held me in the Santa Ana jail for four days, no charges. that is the bullying going on even today post 911. it alright, tough times call for tough people. not with violence but with brains. take them to court for straight harassment, i am.
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@63 "It happened because someone overheard me talking about him at a party." Good that you feel bad, and I'm not saying him doing the same thing in retaliation is better at all, but this is a good example of why people's attachment to social circles and structures can be a bad thing, especially for the people considered different sexual or ... well any other way really. The best way to redeem one's self in such a huge misstep is to talk to the person you out BEFORE it gets out of hand. The thing is, and I cannot stress this enough, everyone is to blame, no one is innocent in a matter like this. People are still attacking anyone different than them in any way, even a little difference. So it gets perpetuated by them lashing back harder than they probably should, which just makes matters worse because in the minds of those who attacked the different person it justifies their actions, eventually spiraling into a war. MLK (one hero of mine) and Rosa Parks (my biggest hero) found the best solutions to bringing about change, it stuck and we see it's positive influence even today. MLK spoke of common ground, Rosa just defied an injustice without hurting anyone. So I'm not going to say you were the one wrong in this, neither was the gay person, just that one or the other person has to stop for it to all stop. I could go on with more of this, but I'll stray too far from the line of conversation at this point, so I'll stop myself. Just feel empathy for each other.
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@64: Whuh? They have a School of Lesbian PE at Cypress College? With a dean and everything? How do college deans go about arresting people? (For not being lesbian?!)
I bet there's absolutely no more detail to that story that could make you seem a little less the outraged innocent.
I bet there's absolutely no more detail to that story that could make you seem a little less the outraged innocent.
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@64: This sounds vaguely like something video of which might have been found on a web site Dan used to promote: The naughty, inept, nominally straight female wrestler is confined, punished and 'trained' by Dean Smitty PhD, the iron-fisted leader of the nationally renowned Department of Lesbian Physical Education.
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Wow, I love this! I had no idea I could find something about (some) gays bullying (some) straight people. I was f-ing bullied by this girl during middle school about 15 years ago. MANY years later I was curious about her so I found her b-tt on facebook. She goes on and on about how she's a lesbian now. It was deffinitely the SAME person because of both her name and home town matched the girl I was harrassed by (due to my appearance... large glasses, bad curly perm, crooked teeth and clearance clothing.) And YES this truly, really DID happen to me. She harrassed me so much, I wanted to end my life but luckily I was strong enough to get through the 2 YEARS I had to deal with her psycho a--. I still hate that nasty b---- because she put me through hell during me early/mid teen years. She must have had horrible parenting, plus being into women without being able to let anyone know about it was probably killing her so she had to divert her huge problems onto others to make her self feel better? Or to forget about her Own Issues? I do wish someone would punch her lights out. She was truly HORRIBLE.
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I apologize if I accidently write another comment that's about the same but I can't find the comment I wrote. I'll attempt to write another one. THIS HAPPENED TO ME!!!!! I'm very serious and sincere about this. During middle school, about 15 years ago... I was harrassed and verbally bullied by a girl for about two years. At one point (I) wanted to kill myself but luckily I had the strength to stay strong. She didn't like my curly perm, my glasses, my crooked teeth, nor my clearance rack wardrobe (my mother was cheap.) Anyway, she was a real b-tch to say the least. She put me through so much, I located her b-tt on facebook. It was the same person because both her first and last name... as well as her "home town" matched the douchebag I delt with years ago. These days she says she's a lesbian but honestly.... goes on AND ON about it. She's also still* an a--hole because she even comes off rude online. One day I hope someone punches her in the throat. She was such a horrible person and WOW what a f-cking hypocrite. She made fun of people for years but she wouldn't have appreciated it if someone made fun of her for being gay. I really (hate) hypocrites. Anyway she must have had terrible parenting plus being gay.... she probably wanted to divert her issues by making fun of others.
Anyway... I was reading her page and she says she really likes Lady Gaga. Really?? Lady Gaga?? This woman I delt with, as a kid, is 30 da-n years old and likes a 22 year old singer? W-o-w. Oh... one last thing... she has this SICK nick-name she goes by "lick-her-low." Now, I don't have an issue with gays and lesbians.... but even if I ran into a Straight Man w/ that nick-name... I'd want to upchuck in a paper bag. She is such a sick weirdo and MEAN (trust me... she Really Is.) In fact her latest headshot on her page makes her look like a seriel killer. She deffinitely (looks) spookier than she did in middle school. Anyway... had to vent and (YES) this story of mine is TRUE.) I just had to vent about that.
More...
Anyway... I was reading her page and she says she really likes Lady Gaga. Really?? Lady Gaga?? This woman I delt with, as a kid, is 30 da-n years old and likes a 22 year old singer? W-o-w. Oh... one last thing... she has this SICK nick-name she goes by "lick-her-low." Now, I don't have an issue with gays and lesbians.... but even if I ran into a Straight Man w/ that nick-name... I'd want to upchuck in a paper bag. She is such a sick weirdo and MEAN (trust me... she Really Is.) In fact her latest headshot on her page makes her look like a seriel killer. She deffinitely (looks) spookier than she did in middle school. Anyway... had to vent and (YES) this story of mine is TRUE.) I just had to vent about that.
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i was bullied by gay ppl. ironically i'm lgbt but no1 knew.
but this sarcastic list is disgusting. because of course NO ONE is bullied BY gay ppl. ignorance is a two way street.
but this sarcastic list is disgusting. because of course NO ONE is bullied BY gay ppl. ignorance is a two way street.
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