Slog
News & ArtsMonday, August 22, 2011
Savage Love / Language Can Slog & "Savage Love" Readers Save This Word?
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 1:12 PM
The Guardian has a story today about some words getting booted out of the dictionary because no one uses them anymore. Words like "drysalter," "aerodrome," and "charabanc." This one caught the eye of a couple of hundred "Savage Love" readers (Slog tipper credits for everybody!):
Other words on the list include "wittol"—a man who tolerates his wife's infidelity, which has not been much used since the 1940s.
Hm. I'm not sure we can save that word. If it's pronounced like whittle, which I'm guessing it would have to be, that would make for one very confusing verb/noun homonym. Which may be why it fell out of use in the first place. So honestly, gang, saving "wittol" may be beyond the powers of even my readers, the same folks responsible for creating and popularizing "santorum," "pegging," and "diamondbacking."
But it seems to me that we could use a word for a guy who tolerates his wife's infidelities. A cuckold, in its current and fully fetishized usage, is a man who gets off on his wife fucking other men. So what do we call a man who doesn't get a kick out of his wife's infidelities but who endures or puts up with them if not wittol?
Suggestions?
4
Also, I just read Rex Warner's Aerodrome (1941), which is a parable about fascism but also has a lot to say about infidelity, love and marriage.
6
How about "closet cuckold"?
Seriously, do we really expect that the "whittols" of decades back were indifferent? Or did they experience unexplained mysterious boners in a time when there was no place for discussion of the fact?
There's only one way a man could be completely indifferent to the fact that his wife's pussy has been recently occupied. And that's if the man had completely quite said pussy and moved on to fresh pastures.
(And if the expense of raising kids was off the table as a risk-- either she was post-childbearing or he was obscenely rich).
Seriously, do we really expect that the "whittols" of decades back were indifferent? Or did they experience unexplained mysterious boners in a time when there was no place for discussion of the fact?
There's only one way a man could be completely indifferent to the fact that his wife's pussy has been recently occupied. And that's if the man had completely quite said pussy and moved on to fresh pastures.
(And if the expense of raising kids was off the table as a risk-- either she was post-childbearing or he was obscenely rich).
10
According to Wikipedia, Aerodrome is an important legal word in Canada. It's used for airstrips that have been issued licenses (as opposed to just landing your crop-duster on a farm road). Fuck snotty British lexicographers for ignoring rural language needs out in the territories.
11
I think wittol is that stuff that looks like dry skin on your dick after having unprotected sex and not showering.
12
I don't know about wittol, but on the subject of sex words, every time i hear about tea baggers, i picture one guy squatting or kneeling over another guys face and dipping his nut sack into the other's mouth (like a tea bag in a cup of hot water). am i imagining things, or is this a known name for a known sex act? if not, i propose that tea bagging be henceforth used to describe said act...
13
Oh and a drysalter is a girl who refuses to use lube even though what she' got looks like a dried salt bed, and feels like it too!
14
Anocular (an- without, ocular- eye): a blind eye
Rotanocular (adding rota- turn): turning a blind eye
Both from the idea that the guy is "turning a blind eye to his wife's infidelities." Both fairly easy to say. Either one spark any interest?
Rotanocular (adding rota- turn): turning a blind eye
Both from the idea that the guy is "turning a blind eye to his wife's infidelities." Both fairly easy to say. Either one spark any interest?
15
@ 12 - Didn't "teabagging" mean "putting your scrotum on someone's forehead"? It was used that way in a John Waters movie, Pecker, if I remember correctly.
17
@ 6 - Don't forget that divorce hasn't always been as easily accessible or as socially acceptable as it is today (and it still isn't in many places).
That, in itself, explains the necessity for such a term (and attitude) in earlier times, and the fact that the word is falling out of use nowadays.
(note: the "or" in my first sentence is non-exclusive [those who participated in the linguistics discussion on another thread will understand])
That, in itself, explains the necessity for such a term (and attitude) in earlier times, and the fact that the word is falling out of use nowadays.
(note: the "or" in my first sentence is non-exclusive [those who participated in the linguistics discussion on another thread will understand])
18
@17, hasn't a wife's infidelity pretty much always been grounds for divorce or murder? (note non-exclusive or)
I think wittols were considerably more tolerant than the average guy, who would have DONE SOMETHING ABOUT THIS OMG TERRIBLE SITUATION (as per eclexia @6).
I think wittols were considerably more tolerant than the average guy, who would have DONE SOMETHING ABOUT THIS OMG TERRIBLE SITUATION (as per eclexia @6).
19
@14, great effort, but this isn't about blindness but clarity of vision. Claricular? But that doesn't roll off the tongue. Farsightedness is known as hyperopia - again, not pretty. Other roots suggest presbyterian (ha!) or wait...French may be the prettiest: prévoyant.
21
Point of order:
"cuckold" refers to someone who gets off on his wife fucking someone else when DAN USES IT or when talking specifically about cuckold fantasies/fetishes. The word doesn't actually mean that if we're talking origin, dictionary definition, and predominant usage.
A cuckold is someone whose wife is fucking around, but the true definition in no way requires or means the cuckold likes it. It's an older term and if you look at literature from or set in the period when it was in more popular usage, it is extremely obvious that the cuckold did not enjoy he was a cuckold, could be a cuckold without knowing it (secret affairs), and it had nothing to do with the fetish that often comes up in Savage Love columns. This is the importance (or the former importance) of the word wittol—a wittol doesn’t mind his wife sleeping around; a cuckold minds it very much (if he knows). Cuckoldry is/was associated with humiliation, and possibly that is part of the fantasy/fetish, hence the use of cuckold vs. wittol or some other word for that sexual practice.
"cuckold" refers to someone who gets off on his wife fucking someone else when DAN USES IT or when talking specifically about cuckold fantasies/fetishes. The word doesn't actually mean that if we're talking origin, dictionary definition, and predominant usage.
A cuckold is someone whose wife is fucking around, but the true definition in no way requires or means the cuckold likes it. It's an older term and if you look at literature from or set in the period when it was in more popular usage, it is extremely obvious that the cuckold did not enjoy he was a cuckold, could be a cuckold without knowing it (secret affairs), and it had nothing to do with the fetish that often comes up in Savage Love columns. This is the importance (or the former importance) of the word wittol—a wittol doesn’t mind his wife sleeping around; a cuckold minds it very much (if he knows). Cuckoldry is/was associated with humiliation, and possibly that is part of the fantasy/fetish, hence the use of cuckold vs. wittol or some other word for that sexual practice.
24
We may need to bring back wittol, but with the definition of "a man who is secure enough not to be troubled by his wife's extramarital affairs."
There, fixed that for ya.
There, fixed that for ya.
25
Well if we want to try and be precise about this, cuckold is really inapt for "a man who gets off on his wife fucking other men." It is actually "A derisive name for the husband of an unfaithful wife" according to the OED. Less a fetish than an insult.
27
"Aerodrome" lives on in FAA and NOAA bureaucracy; the official aviation weather forecasts are known as TAFs, which stands for Terminal Aerodrome Forecast. (The FAA also still spells marihuana with an H.)
28
@ 18 - Yes, where and when divorce was allowed, socially permitted, or easily accessible.
(Side note: as some French and Italian friends explained to me, the reason why they don't get divorced over an affair has nothing to do with them being more open-minded, but rather with the difficulty and length of divorce proceedings until about a generation ago).
Even then, if you needed to invoke adultery as a motive for divorce (or as a defense for murder), you might have been treated with ridicule as a cuckhold (which is still one of the worst insults that can be directed at a man in many cultures... some Western cultures, too). That would have been worse to many than tolerating a discreet infidelity. If said infidelity was discreet, obviously. It would have been a different matter if the whole town knew...
(Side note: as some French and Italian friends explained to me, the reason why they don't get divorced over an affair has nothing to do with them being more open-minded, but rather with the difficulty and length of divorce proceedings until about a generation ago).
Even then, if you needed to invoke adultery as a motive for divorce (or as a defense for murder), you might have been treated with ridicule as a cuckhold (which is still one of the worst insults that can be directed at a man in many cultures... some Western cultures, too). That would have been worse to many than tolerating a discreet infidelity. If said infidelity was discreet, obviously. It would have been a different matter if the whole town knew...
29
Inwifferent?
A pun combining indifferent and wife: to display indifference to the (sexual) behavior of one's wife.
I concede the word sounds stupid and emasculating--it vaguely suggests a lisp--but perhaps that's an appropriate implication.
A pun combining indifferent and wife: to display indifference to the (sexual) behavior of one's wife.
I concede the word sounds stupid and emasculating--it vaguely suggests a lisp--but perhaps that's an appropriate implication.
30
@6 Sorry, but you're not quite right in that.
Depending on the lover, I can be a wittol or a cuckold (though I guess I'm always a cuckold by the original meaning). Some lovers I simply don't care to know about my wife having her way with, others I find it terribly exciting...and no I have not "quit" her nor has she "quit" me.
Depending on the lover, I can be a wittol or a cuckold (though I guess I'm always a cuckold by the original meaning). Some lovers I simply don't care to know about my wife having her way with, others I find it terribly exciting...and no I have not "quit" her nor has she "quit" me.
31
@ 9 - When you say "Guys Who Tolerate Their Wives Infidelities", do you mean that these guys have more than one wife?
And if so, who's the more tolerant of the other's "infidelities"?
And if so, who's the more tolerant of the other's "infidelities"?
36
As it's still August, I am barred from opining about those in relationships of mixed sexes, but they cannot get rid of charabanc. Agatha Christie and John Mortimer will turn in their graves.
38
Not sure if I'm down with whittle.
But canceling aerodrome? No way! I love that word. Bring back Aerodrome!!!
But canceling aerodrome? No way! I love that word. Bring back Aerodrome!!!
41
I think you've got the wrong idea, Dan. This is a fine word for a real specific area of sexuality, however . . .
this particular term has great utility as metaphor, or analogy. As someone who tolerates "infidelities," wittol could be a great name for all sorts of conservatives who look right past moral discretions when they are done by other conservatives. Hate the stimulus but don't mind that your ally Michelle Bachmann is hot-and-heavy in pursuit of stimulus money? You're a wittol. Think Anthony Weiner should have been thrown out of Congress but look the other way when big shitter is waxing hypocrisy. You're a wittol.
Get Andrew Sullivan and Markos and Keith Olbermann in on this.
this particular term has great utility as metaphor, or analogy. As someone who tolerates "infidelities," wittol could be a great name for all sorts of conservatives who look right past moral discretions when they are done by other conservatives. Hate the stimulus but don't mind that your ally Michelle Bachmann is hot-and-heavy in pursuit of stimulus money? You're a wittol. Think Anthony Weiner should have been thrown out of Congress but look the other way when big shitter is waxing hypocrisy. You're a wittol.
Get Andrew Sullivan and Markos and Keith Olbermann in on this.
44
All I can think about is that "charabanc" is used in a Decemberists song. Totally still relevant, right?
45
WTF, people? What about all the people in non-monogamous relationships? How are they doormats, putzes, stupid, cuckold fetishists, or pussy whipped? Whittol is a great word for someone who doesn't feel the need to control other people's sexuality.
I don't see why the similarity to "whittle" is a problem: there is no context where one could confuse the two words, and it's not like English has no homophones already. Words don't die out just cause they sound like other words.
I don't see why the similarity to "whittle" is a problem: there is no context where one could confuse the two words, and it's not like English has no homophones already. Words don't die out just cause they sound like other words.
46
E.g., the Republicans don't have much use for a Mormon who believes in reason, so they won't be wittols in the face of Huntsman's appreciation of science:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/08/23…
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/08/23…
47
@45: The use of the word "tolerates" in the definition makes me picture a guy who's not happy about his wife fooling around, but doesn't care enough to do anything about it. That implies (to me) something different than a man who celebrates and encourages his wife's desire to be with other partners. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.
49
@12, @15, yes, that was my general thought of teabagging, hence my initial long & rotfl fits when the "teabaggers" first came out. Gah.
However, I question the definition of 'cuckold' in Dan's post. I don't think it has widespread understanding as described there. Cuckold to me means a guy who doesn't know his wife is off fucking someone else and who would blow his top if he did; it also refers to how other people -- all of whom know about it but he doesn't -- view him. I had no idea there was a fetishized definition of it, and I'm not sure that can be taken to be cuckold's dominant definition, really.
To me, a guy who gets off seeing / knowing about his wife with others is a type of poly. I'd actually think you'd want to come up with a neologism for this, rather than re-use a word with perfectly solid meaning that tends to confuse things.
However, I question the definition of 'cuckold' in Dan's post. I don't think it has widespread understanding as described there. Cuckold to me means a guy who doesn't know his wife is off fucking someone else and who would blow his top if he did; it also refers to how other people -- all of whom know about it but he doesn't -- view him. I had no idea there was a fetishized definition of it, and I'm not sure that can be taken to be cuckold's dominant definition, really.
To me, a guy who gets off seeing / knowing about his wife with others is a type of poly. I'd actually think you'd want to come up with a neologism for this, rather than re-use a word with perfectly solid meaning that tends to confuse things.
50
Ahhh Robotslave, this reminds me of an old story I once heard.
There's an old bull and a young bull standing on a hill overlooking a heard of cows.
The young bull says to the old bull, "I've got a great idea, let's run down there and fuck one of those cows!"
The old bull thinks for a moment and says, "I have a better idea. Let's walk down there and fuck 'em all."
So, go ahead, spend all your energy controlling things and being an "alpha." Some of us who aren't so uptight will be over here, being beats who get more ass than the proverbial toilet seat.
There's an old bull and a young bull standing on a hill overlooking a heard of cows.
The young bull says to the old bull, "I've got a great idea, let's run down there and fuck one of those cows!"
The old bull thinks for a moment and says, "I have a better idea. Let's walk down there and fuck 'em all."
So, go ahead, spend all your energy controlling things and being an "alpha." Some of us who aren't so uptight will be over here, being beats who get more ass than the proverbial toilet seat.
52
@ 49 - That is indeed the real meaning of cuckold (sorry Dan, it's back to the dictionary for you), and that's precisely why it's used for a particular fetish.
The cuckold fetish is not about the enjoyment your derive from your wife being fucked by another man, but about the enjoyment you derive from the HUMILIATION brought about by knowing your wife is being fucked by another man.
As for the teabaggers, I find it so amusingly ironic. I always picture them with a scrotum on their forehead.
The cuckold fetish is not about the enjoyment your derive from your wife being fucked by another man, but about the enjoyment you derive from the HUMILIATION brought about by knowing your wife is being fucked by another man.
As for the teabaggers, I find it so amusingly ironic. I always picture them with a scrotum on their forehead.
53
@47: I see what you mean but there is a middle ground. Someone might enjoy the freedom of a non-monogamous relationship, and put up with their partner's non-monogamy as the price they pay for their own non-monogamy. In such a case, they might not celebrate or encourage it, but they still go along with it for the benefits it gives them.
@49: In fairness, it was mostly people making fun of the tea partiers who called them 'teabaggers.'
As far as neologisms go, poly people sometimes use the word 'compersion' to mean the enjoyment they get from their partner's pleasure (the opposite of sexual jealousy).
@49: In fairness, it was mostly people making fun of the tea partiers who called them 'teabaggers.'
As far as neologisms go, poly people sometimes use the word 'compersion' to mean the enjoyment they get from their partner's pleasure (the opposite of sexual jealousy).
56
Ditto on 21. Cuckold is not how Dan uses, no matter how much I like Savage Love. And I do. Very much.
58
@ 45 - Thank you for being the sole voice of reason so far. My husband is secure enough in his masculinity and in our marriage that he doesn't need a complete monopoly on my body, nor does he feel the least bit diminished if I get some ass on the side. He's certainly not a putz, a towel, or a beta - quite the opposite. And when either of us swings, whether alone or together, it's not something we "tolerate" but something we celebrate. I like it when my partner feels good and I like knowing other women get hot for my man. I think he gets something similar out if it when I step out. After all, I always come home to him and he knows it.
59
Aman like that is just plain stupid... no need for another word to describe him... divorce that fucking cunt!!!
61
@53: There was plenty of rhetoric coming from the teabaggers themselves about "teabag the liberals" or "teabag Obama." Google image search is instructive in this regard.
62
There's a standard term for this in (of course) French: "mari complaisant." A woman who's okay with her husband sleeping around is a "femme complaisante."
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