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News & ArtsMonday, August 8, 2011
News / Enviro Banning Plastic Bags: It Can Be Done
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 7:31 AM
Just, you know, not here. It would never work here.
Since July 1, large supermarkets and pharmacies in unincorporated parts of Los Angeles County have been required to charge 10 cents each for paper bags and have been banned from using plastic grocery bags. Similar bans are in effect or pending in several cities across Southern California. The county ordinance was designed to encourage shoppers to bring their own reusable bags and cut down on waste. Some customers have been using odd contrivances to lug out their purchases—including baskets, cardboard boxes, old paper and plastic bags, backpacks and even their hands.
"People bring boxes—almost every day at least one person will bring a box," said Albertsons checker Alice Nolasco, who works at a store in unincorporated Hacienda Heights.
Interesting detail:
That 10 cents [for a paper bag] is retained by grocers to cover the cost of papers bags and promote the change.
Maybe the grocery chains would get behind a ban like that. And, yes, just banning plastic bags won't save us from the coming ecopocalypse. But if we can't scrounge up the political will to make the little changes—the easy changes—then we're never going to find the political will to make any big changes.
1
Customers are animals. I worked at a grocery store that tried to charge five cents for plastic bags, and you would not believe the hissy fits that were thrown. Over five fucking cents. It made me want to wrap a bag over their faces.
4
This is the kind of non-ban that makes sense to me. When buying groceries I don't always have cloth bags on me, and using paper bags while walking/using transit can be really awkward. Putting a price on them will discourage use, but they'll stll be available for use when necessary.
5
We really ought to use deposits on bags and any sort of food containers. People would think twice about throwing something out if it had a $0.25 deposit on it.
6
Portland also passed a plastic bag ban 2-3 weeks ago.
http://news.opb.org/article/portland-cou…
Seattle will once again be the last major city on the west coast to adopt progressive change...
http://news.opb.org/article/portland-cou…
Seattle will once again be the last major city on the west coast to adopt progressive change...
7
My city, Ottawa and perhaps all of ontario has something similar. However, it was led by the grocery stores. They charge 5-10 cents per bag, except for one store that used to give a 5 cent credit if you brought bags. Now, they don't give the credit, but don't charge for bags.
8
Christ - we should just ban plastic bags, carve out an exception for compostable plastic bags, throw in a high requirement of post-consumer product for paper bags, apply the ban to everyone (including downtown retailers), and be done with it. Stores can charge a fee if they want, and we can be done with this.
Why the Council can't get this done is beyond me.
Why the Council can't get this done is beyond me.
10
Yeah, it really saves the environment to have to buy plastic trash can liners, instead of reusing grocery bags, and to have to launder cloth grocery bags when meat, milk, etc. leak.
11
@ #1: Shoppers won't throw as much of a hissy fit if the grocery stores have to charge because of a LAW. Because of a city by-law, the city of Toronto now charges 5 cents for each plastic bag. It wasn't any of the individual stores' "fault", so people didn't get as mad.
There were a few indignant articles in the paper, but then everyone calmed down. It reminded me of when smoking was banned in restaurants and bars. Everyone thought there would be backlash, and there were a few whiners for a few days, and then everyone shut up and got used to it.
Now, it's common to see people carrying out small numbers of groceries with no bag at all--just in their hands. Pretty cool.
And just because it's not a big change doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to do.
There were a few indignant articles in the paper, but then everyone calmed down. It reminded me of when smoking was banned in restaurants and bars. Everyone thought there would be backlash, and there were a few whiners for a few days, and then everyone shut up and got used to it.
Now, it's common to see people carrying out small numbers of groceries with no bag at all--just in their hands. Pretty cool.
And just because it's not a big change doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to do.
13
The plastic bag ban is ridiculous and counterproductive.
Paper bags are not environmentally friendly. Paper comes from trees. Cutting down trees to turn them into bags is hugely wasteful--it takes 3 tonnes of wood to make one tonne of wood pulp--not to mention the environmental impact of logging, manufacturing and transporting the product, with all the energy use and pollution associated with every step of the process. Plus, paper shopping bags aren't common in most places, and many people don't like them. Also, most paper bags will only be used once before being thrown away because they just aren't as useful as plastic bags--you can't carry a wet swimsuit in a paper bag, or use it for garbage, or even carry most recycling in it--where I live, the bags the city distributes for separating recycling are plastic. Or, if they're recycled, they must go through yet more environmentally unfriendly, energy-guzzling, polluting processes to turn them back into reusable pulp.
In contrast, manufacturing plastic bags is much more energy-efficient than manufacturing paper ones, and plastic grocery bags are typically reused several times over before being discarded. Also, if people don't get plastic bags for free, then they will start buying them, because everybody needs plastic bags for carrying stuff, storing stuff, holding garbage, and picking up dog crap. It is true that plastic bags aren't biodegradable and are a significant solid waste problem, but biodegradable plastics are available and could be made into bags (biodegradable dog poo bags are already widely available), and some argue that modern waste-to-energy incineration methods, despite the pollution they create, are more environmentally friendly than other methods of energy production currently in widespread use. Also, plastic is more readily recyclable and can be recycled into usable products many, many times.
Instead of banning plastic bags, a far bigger impact would be created by banning paper bags, requiring all plastic bags to be biodegradable, and encouraging people to use cloth shopping bags.
More...
Paper bags are not environmentally friendly. Paper comes from trees. Cutting down trees to turn them into bags is hugely wasteful--it takes 3 tonnes of wood to make one tonne of wood pulp--not to mention the environmental impact of logging, manufacturing and transporting the product, with all the energy use and pollution associated with every step of the process. Plus, paper shopping bags aren't common in most places, and many people don't like them. Also, most paper bags will only be used once before being thrown away because they just aren't as useful as plastic bags--you can't carry a wet swimsuit in a paper bag, or use it for garbage, or even carry most recycling in it--where I live, the bags the city distributes for separating recycling are plastic. Or, if they're recycled, they must go through yet more environmentally unfriendly, energy-guzzling, polluting processes to turn them back into reusable pulp.
In contrast, manufacturing plastic bags is much more energy-efficient than manufacturing paper ones, and plastic grocery bags are typically reused several times over before being discarded. Also, if people don't get plastic bags for free, then they will start buying them, because everybody needs plastic bags for carrying stuff, storing stuff, holding garbage, and picking up dog crap. It is true that plastic bags aren't biodegradable and are a significant solid waste problem, but biodegradable plastics are available and could be made into bags (biodegradable dog poo bags are already widely available), and some argue that modern waste-to-energy incineration methods, despite the pollution they create, are more environmentally friendly than other methods of energy production currently in widespread use. Also, plastic is more readily recyclable and can be recycled into usable products many, many times.
Instead of banning plastic bags, a far bigger impact would be created by banning paper bags, requiring all plastic bags to be biodegradable, and encouraging people to use cloth shopping bags.
15
I'm with Dingo. In fact, Dingo said everything I was planning to say, but worded it better.
I have cloth grocery bags, and I use them. But I use plastic grocery bags for different tasks after they've held groceries. Those tasks can't always be done by the cloth bags.
I have cloth grocery bags, and I use them. But I use plastic grocery bags for different tasks after they've held groceries. Those tasks can't always be done by the cloth bags.
16
Bellingham has a similar ban starting in 2012. I think it's great. People complain about change, but eventually, we'll all be so used to it that we will look back and think how could we have NOT switched to a plasticbagless society sooner?
17
After resisting at first, taking cloth bags to the grocery store helps tame kitchen insanity when I get home. One day though, my cloth bags were stolen from my cart while shopping – the nerve!
18
Plastic grocery bags have been banned in supermarkets in France for several years. (American-style paper grocery bags don't exist here.) The supermarkets can sell you a big plastic tote bag with handles for about a dollar if you came unprepared. Most supermarkets leave outside the entrance a big crate full of boxes for customers to use. I've seen people who forgot to bring bags just pile all the food back in the trolley, wheel it to their car and put it all loose in the trunk, they're that averse to buying any kind of bag. Everybody got used to it pretty quickly.
I noticed that in most American supermarkets, the cashier or another person packs everything in the bags (this wasn't done in France even before the ban) and they seem to think that no plastic bag should contain more than 2 items. I think that has contributed to the glut as much as anything.
I noticed that in most American supermarkets, the cashier or another person packs everything in the bags (this wasn't done in France even before the ban) and they seem to think that no plastic bag should contain more than 2 items. I think that has contributed to the glut as much as anything.
19
Sometimes I forgot (like if I pop into a store on the way home on impulse), but I have a large selection of canvass bags and a few backpacks that I use. I've also been known to bring my gym bag and a suitcase on rollers (though it's annoying to roll the suitcase six blocks home). I try to do my part.
21
Paper bags suck. the handles often break due to the weak ass glue they use. I have these hard plastic handles (think brass knuckles, except its made of plastic with hooks for the bags to attach to) that just dont hook on very well with paper bags. That and I re-use the plastic bags for kitty litter. Makes it easy to walk home 4 blocks with 4-6 plastics bags in tow.
22
@13, "plastic grocery bags are typically reused several times over before being discarded"
I doubt there's a single municipality in the world for which that would be an accurate statement. A tiny number of plastic bags are re-used multiple times, a very small percentage are re-used once, and the vast majority go straight into the trash, since they need to be stockpiled before recycling. Most people keep a handful in a closet for swimsuits or wet trash, but once they have a few on hand, the rest go in the trash.
"Also, plastic is more readily recyclable and can be recycled into usable products many, many times."
Plastics get recycled once--into non-recyclable products like lumber, textiles and benches.
Plastic bags contribute massively to litter, whereas a paper bag gets rained on a couple times and it's gone.
I doubt there's a single municipality in the world for which that would be an accurate statement. A tiny number of plastic bags are re-used multiple times, a very small percentage are re-used once, and the vast majority go straight into the trash, since they need to be stockpiled before recycling. Most people keep a handful in a closet for swimsuits or wet trash, but once they have a few on hand, the rest go in the trash.
"Also, plastic is more readily recyclable and can be recycled into usable products many, many times."
Plastics get recycled once--into non-recyclable products like lumber, textiles and benches.
Plastic bags contribute massively to litter, whereas a paper bag gets rained on a couple times and it's gone.
23
Here in Denmark, plastic bags at the grocery store cost at least 25 cents, but the rate of bringing your own bag in Copenhagen, where you pay for a bag, seems about the same as in Seattle, where you don't. The home garbage system seems to be built around putting your garbage in a plastic bag from the grocery store, though. They incinerate all their garbage, so out of sight, out of mind, I guess.
24
What? three hours into the post and no one has mentioned the absolute need for plastic grocery bags to collect dog poop? That used to be the bedrock argument of these discussions: "think of the poop!" It would be that some headway is being made. Have dog owners found an alternative? I hope so.
25
Speak for yourself. I use paper bags to store stuff temporarily, to take stuff to Goodwill, to hold my recyclables until I take them to the garage to dump them in the bin. I can use tiny, easily torn plastic bags for NONE of these things. And I already buy plastic trash bags because, again, plastic grocery bags are too small and tear too easily to realistically use for garbage. They would only ever be useful for dry garbage (like, in say, an office), but you don't need a trash can liner for dry garbage.
No, they aren't. The overwhelming majority are thrown in the trash, when they aren't just dumped on the sidewalk. You are on crack.
Also, most paper bags will only be used once before being thrown away because they just aren't as useful as plastic bags
Speak for yourself. I use paper bags to store stuff temporarily, to take stuff to Goodwill, to hold my recyclables until I take them to the garage to dump them in the bin. I can use tiny, easily torn plastic bags for NONE of these things. And I already buy plastic trash bags because, again, plastic grocery bags are too small and tear too easily to realistically use for garbage. They would only ever be useful for dry garbage (like, in say, an office), but you don't need a trash can liner for dry garbage.
plastic grocery bags are typically reused several times over before being discarded.
No, they aren't. The overwhelming majority are thrown in the trash, when they aren't just dumped on the sidewalk. You are on crack.
27
@13 overstates the recycling/reuse part of plastic bags, although there's a few more considerations -- plastic bags are much lighterweight and thus can be transported using less fuel. Plastic does not actually decompose for the most part, it just breaks down into smaller and smaller pieces of plastic -- there's beaches out there with plastic sand (and animals filling up with bits of plastic in their systems on so on).
I'm a bit amused at how everyone slags the paper bags so much, though. Plastic bags didn't arrive in the US (or at least in southern California) until about mid to late 80's. I saw them in Mexico (and thought they were really, really, strange -- all floppy and not very useful) before I saw them in the U.S.
Neither paper bags nor plastic bags really are the solution -- although I sympathise 100% with the difficulties in always have a tote bag on hand. And as a dog owner, I do re-use (I would not call it recycling!) plastic bags quite a bit.
I'm a bit amused at how everyone slags the paper bags so much, though. Plastic bags didn't arrive in the US (or at least in southern California) until about mid to late 80's. I saw them in Mexico (and thought they were really, really, strange -- all floppy and not very useful) before I saw them in the U.S.
Neither paper bags nor plastic bags really are the solution -- although I sympathise 100% with the difficulties in always have a tote bag on hand. And as a dog owner, I do re-use (I would not call it recycling!) plastic bags quite a bit.
28
@26
I question how much decomposing *anything* does when compacted into a landfill. Archaelogists thousands of years in the future are going to have a field day with them.
I question how much decomposing *anything* does when compacted into a landfill. Archaelogists thousands of years in the future are going to have a field day with them.
29
@22: you doubt that plastic grocery bags are reused several times before being discarded? Not for carrying groceries, I grant you that. But there's no one I know who doesn't reuse a plastic grocery bag at least once, even if it's for holding garbage.
Also, "plastics get recycled once--into non-recyclable products like lumber, textiles and benches."
That's untrue: first of all, lumber is made of trees. Second, plastic can be recycled into usable and recyclable products multiple times.
And while I already conceded that plastic bags contribute massively to litter and are a significant percentage of the stuff in landfills, a discarded paper bag represents a much bigger waste of resources than a discarded plastic one.
The fact is, paper bags are a huge waste of resources and a major source of pollution, and so are plastic ones, but people will always need a convenient, disposable bag capable of holding wet items--and to those who argue that their great-grandmothers used baskets for shopping and never even heard of plastic, the reality is that their world no longer exists. Few people have the time to walk to local stores to do their shopping every day, and yes, most cities require you to collect your dog waste. As I said in my original post, the solution isn't to ban plastic bags and promote paper ones; that's just stupid. The solution is to encourage people to carry re-usable shopping bags for their grocery-buying trips, and to require all plastic bags to be biodegradable.
Also, "plastics get recycled once--into non-recyclable products like lumber, textiles and benches."
That's untrue: first of all, lumber is made of trees. Second, plastic can be recycled into usable and recyclable products multiple times.
And while I already conceded that plastic bags contribute massively to litter and are a significant percentage of the stuff in landfills, a discarded paper bag represents a much bigger waste of resources than a discarded plastic one.
The fact is, paper bags are a huge waste of resources and a major source of pollution, and so are plastic ones, but people will always need a convenient, disposable bag capable of holding wet items--and to those who argue that their great-grandmothers used baskets for shopping and never even heard of plastic, the reality is that their world no longer exists. Few people have the time to walk to local stores to do their shopping every day, and yes, most cities require you to collect your dog waste. As I said in my original post, the solution isn't to ban plastic bags and promote paper ones; that's just stupid. The solution is to encourage people to carry re-usable shopping bags for their grocery-buying trips, and to require all plastic bags to be biodegradable.
30
@9 you're right, I read it wrong. In that case I'd be against this be..I think it's better to put a price on them, and still have them available for convenience sake. Otherwise I'm going to be buying half a dozen cloth bags a year that I don't need, or buying paper bags that are difficult to carry (and tend to rip) while walking.
31
We should keep SOME bags. I get my groceries delivered, and there isn't a good way to have this happen without disposable bags of some kind. I always hope that the amount of plastic bags that I accumulate (and recycle) is offset by the fact that I DON'T HAVE A CAR.
I wish they would make the bags out of corn though. Those new plastic materials degrade so easily.
I wish they would make the bags out of corn though. Those new plastic materials degrade so easily.
32
I still think a refundable deposit would be a much better carrot to get people to save, reuse, and return paper bags than an outright 10 cent charge. The point really is supposed to be increasing the recycling etc. So model it on other successful programs like the CA redemption value, etc.
33
They've done this in Long Beach (where I live) and I don't mind too much. I just keep my cloth bags in my trunk and bring them into the store with me. Of course, I always saved every plastic bag I got for wet swimsuits, for packing shoes (I don't like the dirty soles touching my clean clothes), and to use as garbage bin liners (the little ones for my desk and bathroom). I know you can buy small garbage bin liners and I guess I'll have to when I run out.
But I've never thrown plastic bags away as plastic bags, rather than bin liners - I believe in Florida you can recycle them too.
But I've never thrown plastic bags away as plastic bags, rather than bin liners - I believe in Florida you can recycle them too.
35
The problem here is that they put plastic and paper bags in the same category. I don't like idea of plastic bags. Everything about them is 'not good.'
Paper bags however are biodegradable, recyclable, are made from an (arguably) natural product, and are useful for all kinds of things. I use them to sort my recycling at home.
i wouldn't mind paying a modest bag fee for paper bags.
Paper bags however are biodegradable, recyclable, are made from an (arguably) natural product, and are useful for all kinds of things. I use them to sort my recycling at home.
i wouldn't mind paying a modest bag fee for paper bags.
36
Dingo is just plain wrong. Others have appropriately countered the incorrect arguments. I'll point out that plastic bags are not recycled multiple times. The lumber mentioned is plastic lumber. This point alone shows Dingo's ignorance on this subject.
37
Happening up here in Bellingham next year, too. But sure it won't work 90 miles south, because we're just a bunch of fucking hippies up here, right?
38
Okay, 2 things:
1. I live in low income neighborhood in Long Beach and even before this went into effect, most of the people in my neighboirhood were already bringing reusable bags and carts. It is definitely not as hard to carry reusable bags as people think - especially when there are so many options that can be compressed to fit in a purse or pocket. Haven't seen anyone complain here yet.
2. Of course we need to limit consumption of paper goods as well, especially since trees are no longer an "unlimited national resource." But I don't see how eliminating plastic first, encouraging people to use reusable bags and offering paper bags - at cost - is a worse thing than offering paper AND plastic. You can put paper bags in compost, too, unlike plastic bags. The fact is, by elminating 1 of 2 unneccesary evils, this is still a big step toward phasing out a single use mentality.
1. I live in low income neighborhood in Long Beach and even before this went into effect, most of the people in my neighboirhood were already bringing reusable bags and carts. It is definitely not as hard to carry reusable bags as people think - especially when there are so many options that can be compressed to fit in a purse or pocket. Haven't seen anyone complain here yet.
2. Of course we need to limit consumption of paper goods as well, especially since trees are no longer an "unlimited national resource." But I don't see how eliminating plastic first, encouraging people to use reusable bags and offering paper bags - at cost - is a worse thing than offering paper AND plastic. You can put paper bags in compost, too, unlike plastic bags. The fact is, by elminating 1 of 2 unneccesary evils, this is still a big step toward phasing out a single use mentality.
39
@31, it's not delivery, but there's a grocery store chain here on the East Coast that will allow you to give or buy from them whatever amount of reusable bags you typically use, and then will bag your PICK-UP order in reusable bags. It would work the same for delivery. They have me down for 3 bags, and when I drop by to pick up my groceries I return the bags from my last order, and I get reusable bags that I just return the next time I pick-up. Wouldn't be much harder to hand the delivery driver a stash of reusable bags.
40
Plastic bags are recycled until you have too many of them. At home, my plastic bag bin is beyond full (There are probably 50 in there.) So now, I just throw them away.
41
@26 Could you point me to some? Because I am skeptical of any biodegradable plastics after it was found most just breakdown to microscopic pieces and aren't actually broken-down biologically.
42
I live in Santa Monica, CA and our bag ban has been in place for a few months now. it really is not a big deal at all, no one cares that they now have to remember to bring bags or pay a whole extra dollar for paper bags on a large shopping trip. And there has already been a sharp decrease in those random, floating in the air plastic bags you used to see on every sidewalk in the city.
43
@11 I believe that there are some that are made out of corn that meet ASTM standards for compostable plastics.
44
@43 and others about the "biodegradable" plastics. If you want to have the "plastic" bag breakdown into organic components that can be used by plants and other organisms, the bag needs to be "Certified Compostable." These are typically made of Polylactic Acid (PLA, aka derivatives of corn, tapioca, or sugar cane). PLA bags as grocery bags are use in some European stores.
Biodegradable simply means that it will breakdown into very small pieces, but those pieces will still be plastic, and most likely a petroleum plastic.
Biodegradable simply means that it will breakdown into very small pieces, but those pieces will still be plastic, and most likely a petroleum plastic.
45
It can be done. I work in Canada in a city supported by the "oil sands". Ironic? - yes. In a city whose backbone is producing oil plastic bags (a by-product of oil) are banned. The stores don't even carry then. Good story here:
http://www2.canada.com/calgaryherald/new…
http://www2.canada.com/calgaryherald/new…
46
Those restaurantowners in the crowd know that Cash & Carry's been doing this for years. There's a pile of boxes at the door. You want a container for your purchases, get it yourself.
However, There are More Important Things to a.publish b. put 45+ comments on
For every 10 already-onboard liberal/green folks you've reaffirmed with this article, you've permanently pissed off 1 fence rider, and stirred the shit for 3 of the "Yeah, maybe, but what we REALLY need to do..." crowd (the folks that are just happy to argue & BS, and further sap useful activitists' time).
It's not "if we can't do at least this, we're fucked". We're really fucked by the far reaching, deeply distrubing have-to-be-fought now battles: Scratching at the mosquito bite itch when facing down the angry bear isn't the best use of limited time/resources. Pick your gawddamn battles.
superlong spiralling-cost deathtoll-inflating War?
National economy and banking crime?
Education travesty?
Civil rights & worker rights?
hell, even Tunnel?
However, There are More Important Things to a.publish b. put 45+ comments on
For every 10 already-onboard liberal/green folks you've reaffirmed with this article, you've permanently pissed off 1 fence rider, and stirred the shit for 3 of the "Yeah, maybe, but what we REALLY need to do..." crowd (the folks that are just happy to argue & BS, and further sap useful activitists' time).
It's not "if we can't do at least this, we're fucked". We're really fucked by the far reaching, deeply distrubing have-to-be-fought now battles: Scratching at the mosquito bite itch when facing down the angry bear isn't the best use of limited time/resources. Pick your gawddamn battles.
superlong spiralling-cost deathtoll-inflating War?
National economy and banking crime?
Education travesty?
Civil rights & worker rights?
hell, even Tunnel?
47
@29, lay off the Kool Aid!
For starters, check out one of the many sources of actual information, as opposed to gas/timber industry propaganda on the subject:
http://www.reuseit.com/learn-more/top-fa…
For starters, check out one of the many sources of actual information, as opposed to gas/timber industry propaganda on the subject:
http://www.reuseit.com/learn-more/top-fa…
48
I really like this idea (especially if both paper and plastic bags are taxed, as was the Seattle proposal).
A special tax on people who don't drive their car to buy groceries, but instead pick them up when walking or busing home from work - what could be more ecological than that?
A special tax on people who don't drive their car to buy groceries, but instead pick them up when walking or busing home from work - what could be more ecological than that?
49
Why do we ban the use of small plastic grocery bags, which get reused and recycled, instead of banning the sale of the millions of single-use plastic garbage bags that get used once and dumped in the landfill? When I get a plastic bag from the grocery store, I use it for my next few visits, or to carry books from the library, and then they get donated to my neighbors with dogs or used as small trash can liners. I suspect Glad and Hefty have significant investments in lobbying for grocery bag bans.
51
seriously, do we need to ban theM??
must we ban everything? how about just being a smart individual and not using them unless you really need em....I do not drive, and on the occasional rainy day i might have to walk a mile to a grocery store, being penalized because i need a few plastic bags is ludicrus, all you smug people driving your cars use more petrolium starting your cars, than I use shopping...since i dont have a car I cant always store a bunch of canvas bags wherever I go...so when I have to make a quick stop on the way home from say...oh i dont know, a date, or somewhere else that carrying my backpack would be totally unacceptible, i cant get a fricken plastic bag because some arrogant car driving ass who thik since plastc bags are unecessary for them that NO one should ever use them?? give me a break. a ban like thi will hurt the poorest of poor, and the most environmentally concious people like me who choose not to drive because of environmental impact...by the way, thos plastic bags all get recycled, instead of buying new plastic wrap or bags for my food, I use recycled plastic bags from grocery stores, this is better for the environment then buying new saran wrap or whatever....dan, i fricken love ya, you mean soo much to me as a person, but this idea of outright ban of all plastic bags forever is really hard on the poorest people.
must we ban everything? how about just being a smart individual and not using them unless you really need em....I do not drive, and on the occasional rainy day i might have to walk a mile to a grocery store, being penalized because i need a few plastic bags is ludicrus, all you smug people driving your cars use more petrolium starting your cars, than I use shopping...since i dont have a car I cant always store a bunch of canvas bags wherever I go...so when I have to make a quick stop on the way home from say...oh i dont know, a date, or somewhere else that carrying my backpack would be totally unacceptible, i cant get a fricken plastic bag because some arrogant car driving ass who thik since plastc bags are unecessary for them that NO one should ever use them?? give me a break. a ban like thi will hurt the poorest of poor, and the most environmentally concious people like me who choose not to drive because of environmental impact...by the way, thos plastic bags all get recycled, instead of buying new plastic wrap or bags for my food, I use recycled plastic bags from grocery stores, this is better for the environment then buying new saran wrap or whatever....dan, i fricken love ya, you mean soo much to me as a person, but this idea of outright ban of all plastic bags forever is really hard on the poorest people.
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