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News & ArtsWednesday, July 13, 2011
Enviro Update on Replacing Old Streetlights With LEDs
Posted by Dominic Holden on Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 2:14 PM
Seattle City Council member Bruce Harrell's work (largely invisible) to switch out the old sodium streetlamps to LEDs—which are more energy efficient, have longer lifespans, and require fewer field hours replacing old lamps—is smart city planning. Seattle City Light replaced 6,000 lamps in 2010, will do another 12,000 by the end of this year, and 41,000 within a couple years. Good jolly show, Harrell!
2
Call me crazy, but those blue lights are extremely unpleasant to drive under, or walk through. They're harsher on the eyes, and they cast a different light that seems to create shadows differently than the standard orange of the sodium lights.
If they could recreate the orange light, or reduce the harshness of the bright blue/white light, I would be happier.
If they could recreate the orange light, or reduce the harshness of the bright blue/white light, I would be happier.
3
fortunately, it doesn't snow too much here as the LEDs have had issues with accumulation of snow that was not a problem with the previous lights - where that inefficient heat generated was enough to melt the snow that would otherwise have accumulated on the lenses
5
I used to live at one of the test sites when they were trying out different kinds of LEDs. I found the light to be much more clear and allowed much better visibility, but it did take a little getting used to. Happy they are following through with this.
6
@3
1st - Snow???? in Seattle? This is an Issue? Streetlights are "mission critical" devices?
2nd - Snow accumulates on the bottom of streetlights? gravity? what's that?
sincerely,
utterly confused
1st - Snow???? in Seattle? This is an Issue? Streetlights are "mission critical" devices?
2nd - Snow accumulates on the bottom of streetlights? gravity? what's that?
sincerely,
utterly confused
7
also, LED streetlights are amazing for cycling around town. Cars, pedestrians and other cyclists are much more easily visible. I love them for at least 5 different reasons.
9
I'm with @2, even though it makes us sound like suburban dad assholes.
Seriously though Dominic, this "largely invisible" shit you're slinging is totally off. It's blindingly (and I do mean blindingly) obvious on my street (in Fremont/Phinney), where the new street lamps blaze like tiny suns, creating a bright, sickly blue hue at night that seeps through the blinds in my bedroom, invading my dreams/nightmares.
I've actually gone around and around on it with Harrell's aides, who agree with me that the new lights are much brighter. Part of the issue is that many streets have tight light post spacing based on the old light output; these new lamps are so bright that they could activate every other pole and still create enough illumination for cars/pedestrians. But the engineering folks overruled that solution, quoting some obscure regulatory requirement. And the shielding available is problematic; the engineers say it's not cost-efficient to install in most cases.
So really, this "smart planning" you're talking about didn't involve any actual impact testing, since they apparently don't have any glare-reduction strategy beyond "oh, come on...it's not that bad!"
But I guess it's all worth it if it saves a few bucks on electricity. Nobody in Seattle wants to see a star at night anyway, other than the moon (not that the weather ever allows that).
Seriously though Dominic, this "largely invisible" shit you're slinging is totally off. It's blindingly (and I do mean blindingly) obvious on my street (in Fremont/Phinney), where the new street lamps blaze like tiny suns, creating a bright, sickly blue hue at night that seeps through the blinds in my bedroom, invading my dreams/nightmares.
I've actually gone around and around on it with Harrell's aides, who agree with me that the new lights are much brighter. Part of the issue is that many streets have tight light post spacing based on the old light output; these new lamps are so bright that they could activate every other pole and still create enough illumination for cars/pedestrians. But the engineering folks overruled that solution, quoting some obscure regulatory requirement. And the shielding available is problematic; the engineers say it's not cost-efficient to install in most cases.
So really, this "smart planning" you're talking about didn't involve any actual impact testing, since they apparently don't have any glare-reduction strategy beyond "oh, come on...it's not that bad!"
But I guess it's all worth it if it saves a few bucks on electricity. Nobody in Seattle wants to see a star at night anyway, other than the moon (not that the weather ever allows that).
10
What made you change your mind from this fairly critical article you wrote 2 years ago:
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/kill-…
to "Good jolly show" ?
I like the orange ones.
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/kill-…
to "Good jolly show" ?
I like the orange ones.
11
They're not perfect, admittedly, schmacky. But based on the research I've done over the past couple years, it seems like the lights we're getting are less offensive than many in the test batches of 2009 and the technology will continually improve with each successive set of installations. I know, I know... some are ugly. And I seen them with my own eyes. But I believe, overall, this switch makes sense and Harrell's on the right track.
14
I have never been able to see with those crappy orange lights. When I moved from Cali in 1982, I was a bit confused as to why the streetlights in all of washington were orange. I think that the LED lights are a great improvement to the city, and this is exactly the kind of things that local government should be doing. As I was stating earlier about the food billboard, more programs like this, and less programs like spending $30,000 a day marketing "healthy" food choices.
15
Agreed about the harshness and brightness of the new LED lights. We noticed immediately when they replaced the ones on our street, because one night we were sitting in the living room and started wondering if there was some kind of emergency situation going on in the street, since it seemed like there must be floodlights. We walked outside and realized that it was just the streetlights.
I can't say it's harsh and bright enough to really kvetch about -- it is nice to be able to see better -- but it would be nice if they put some effort into refining the design so newer ones are a bit softer.
I can't say it's harsh and bright enough to really kvetch about -- it is nice to be able to see better -- but it would be nice if they put some effort into refining the design so newer ones are a bit softer.
16
the snow accumulates on the lenses and on the hoods of the lens below, etc. You've never seen snow anywhere except a horizontal surface? See:
http://boingboing.net/2009/12/17/led-tra…
http://boingboing.net/2009/12/17/led-tra…
18
I wonder if the problem isn't more how the light is directed rather than its brightness or color. Better street light design would focus the light where it's needed--roads and sidewalks--while minimizing light that shines into nearby homes and backyards. Spacing is part of that, but lamp designs that limit light pollution also help.
19
What exactly has Bruce Harrell done? The article you wrote in 2009 linked@10 mentioned Greg Nickels and Seattle City Light's initiative for "most Seattle residents to be living under new streetlights by 2015". Is Harrell's work "invisible" for a reason?
20
I'm all for longer lasting lights, but those things make it damn near impossible to see the stars.
21
"White" LEDs don't have to be bluish. That tint is more common either [I'm not sure which] because it's easier to make, or because the cool white (bluer) LEDs put out more measured lumens than the neutral white or warm white tints, which may make them more marketable as being brighter per watt. I have a couple of warm white LED flashlights that have the buttery color of an old Boy Scout flashlight from 40 years ago, just WAY brighter, longer running and impact resistant.
See www.candlepowerforums.com for grotesquely excessively more on this subject.
See www.candlepowerforums.com for grotesquely excessively more on this subject.
22
One of the efficiencies of LEDs is that the light is highly directed, even without any reflectors or lenses. There's no reason an LED streetlamp should put light anywhere but the ROW. If one is glaring into your window, it means an engineer somewhere did a bad (or lazy) job.
I haven't even seen one of these streetlamps yet, but I have really come to love the LED lighting at covered bus stops.
I haven't even seen one of these streetlamps yet, but I have really come to love the LED lighting at covered bus stops.
23
I don't know how anyone can think that seeing pedestrians/cyclists in blue shadows is easier than seeing them in yellow/orange shadows. Certainly the beam underneath the lamp provides a clear view, but once cars and other object start casting shadows, it is much more difficult to see. Expect more prowlers.
24
@19 City Light is a public utility and always led by a member of the Seattle Council. Bruce took oversight before 09 and is still in charge. I'm guessing 'largely invisible' is a reference to most Seattlites just think this stuff happens without knowing who is really responsible. Who the heck is responsible for making sure we have clean water? I don't know, but it comes out the tap.
25
Maybe put some lights up in the dark u-district where they keep having shootings and robberies? Maybe the light will scare away criminals. God knows there aren't any cops who give a fuck up there anymore.
28
I read led's can cause permanent eye damage. Also, I never thought I would have to use the sun visor at night. I have now.
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