Slog
News & ArtsTuesday, June 21, 2011
Homo / Hetero Homophobic Men Wanna Suck Dick
Posted by Dan Savage on Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 9:40 AM
The rightwing haters were a little upset when I called Antonin Scalia a cocksucker in Newsweek and Jane Lynch seconded me:
Newsweek: How long until there’s an openly gay president or Supreme Court justice?
Savage: Scalia isn’t gay?!? I always think the biggest homophobe in the room is clearly a cocksucker.
Lynch: Totally! The next religious person who tells you there’s something wrong with being a homosexual, start the countdown. It’s Psychology 101—the people who are the loudest and hate it the most hate something in themselves.
"Absolutely every traditionally religious person is homosexual?" asked buttsore Newsbuster Tim Graham.
Not every professional homophobe is a homosexual, Tim, although picturing you being lead out of a truckstop toilet in handcuffs doesn't exactly strain any brain muscles. But as we've seen repeatedly (Haggard, Rekers, Craig, et al), there is a strong correlation between ranting and raving about teh geighs and a burning desire for a little same-sex sexing yourself. And science—science!—backs me and Jane up on this: studies have found that homophobic men are "most aroused" by gay porn. You can suck on that for now, Tim.
2
Like mom always told me, the opposite of love isn't hate it's indifference. That is why men w/o any homosexual inclinations don't really care what homos do or don't do.
6
Interesting-sounding study. It totally jibes with what I've felt to be true, and makes sense. I just hope it is reported in a more professionally-vetted scholarly journal. Psychology Today may not carry as much weight.
7
And here I always thought it was just a snarky Slog meme.
@2 What does it mean if I enthusiastically support LGBT equality but find the idea anal sex (straight, gay, or other) completely repulsive? Xp
@2 What does it mean if I enthusiastically support LGBT equality but find the idea anal sex (straight, gay, or other) completely repulsive? Xp
8
I've always theorized that Santorum's homophobia stemmed from some sort of deeply buried (possibly unconsummated)) gay college affair that caused him to slip down his well-lubricated ethics axis into the manure-strewn fields of moral outrage.
10
Totally my experience: the louder the homophobe, the more likely they are to be a self-hating closeted gay.
11
But that article cites Sigmung Freud when it should really credit Anna Freud! She did a lot more work on reaction formation.
/nerdery
/nerdery
12
lostboy, those who are goobed out by something don't enter into this theory. to use your example, it's those who loudly proclaim, unsolicited, their hatred for and condemnation of anal sex who are suspect. nobody should be allowed to, it's a sin against nature, etc.--the chest pounding, vehement spittle-spewing type.
14
@ 7,
Also, it's worth mentioning that not all gay guyz are into it either. Some are perfectly happy with kissing, jacking off and blow jobs. I can't think of a better way to spend the day.
Also, it's worth mentioning that not all gay guyz are into it either. Some are perfectly happy with kissing, jacking off and blow jobs. I can't think of a better way to spend the day.
15
@7, @12 -- another test would be whether you try to stop everyone else from doing what you loudly proclaim as repulsive. There's a number of things I don't care for and/or find repulsive, but don't care who else indulges...
16
In any case, whatever else Scalia is (and I agree he *totally* has the hallmarks of being a thoroughly self-repressed queen), he's not *openly* gay...
It would be great if this meme were enough to start shutting these kind of closeted homophobes up as it gets around and is more widely quoted!
It would be great if this meme were enough to start shutting these kind of closeted homophobes up as it gets around and is more widely quoted!
19
It is a tad abrasive to describe the a supreme court justice, or anyone else, as a "cocksucker" for a mainstream publication and it's kind of a downer to the inherent integrity of your overall message.
20
My question @7 was entirely tongue-in-cheek rhetorical, but it's cool to see so many cogent responses!
BEG @16:
That's exactly my hope. Doing my best to stoke the meme on FB and twitter.
BEG @16:
It would be great if this meme were enough to start shutting these kind of closeted homophobes up as it gets around and is more widely quoted!
That's exactly my hope. Doing my best to stoke the meme on FB and twitter.
21
We know that Thomas is into big cock straight porn. How much you want to bet he's so quiet up there on the bench because his asshole is stuffed with something motorized and he doesn't want to call attention to himself.
22
My husband shut up a homophobe coworker by pointing out how obsessively the guy thought about gay sex.
23
I may not agree with Scalia, but I just do not buy that he's gay. He's such an obvious ladies man, such a big romantic. He would take the ladies to the opera, maybe even sing for them over dinner. If his politics weren't insane he'd be just my type...
24
Dan,
That 15-year-old study only looked at 35 homophobic men vs. 29 non-homophobes. It's pretty weak evidence (though I would love to think that it's completely true).
You might enjoy more recent analyses finding a mild (though decreasing over time) correlation between internalized homophobia and risky sexual behavior:
Newcomb & Mustanski, Arch. Sexual Behavior, v. 40, pp. 189-199, '09.
These same researchers also found a stronger correlation between internalized homophobia and negative mental health outcomes.
All sorts of Scalia/Santorum possibilities there!
That 15-year-old study only looked at 35 homophobic men vs. 29 non-homophobes. It's pretty weak evidence (though I would love to think that it's completely true).
You might enjoy more recent analyses finding a mild (though decreasing over time) correlation between internalized homophobia and risky sexual behavior:
Newcomb & Mustanski, Arch. Sexual Behavior, v. 40, pp. 189-199, '09.
These same researchers also found a stronger correlation between internalized homophobia and negative mental health outcomes.
All sorts of Scalia/Santorum possibilities there!
26
I've never seen any gay man who obsesses over the buttsecks the way some of the homophobes do. Man, they think about every thrust and squirm! Now, why would that be? Most people don't spend their entire day daydreaming of buttsecks.
27
Jeez, dan, first "amirite" and now "buttsore" ? Let me guess, you learned about those on "know your meme" ?
28
There's a reason they think about gay sex so much...more than most gay people do, probably, since they're denying themselves what they truly want.
29
"Absolutely every traditionally religious person is homosexual?" asked buttsore Newsbuster Tim Graham.What's interesting about this is Graham assumes every traditionally religious person is a homophobe. Mind you I have no love for teh religousity, but Graham might be shocked to find out that there are religious people who do not care about homosexuality (of course, he's probably circularly defining "traditionally religious" as "homophobic")...
30
The Republican Party parted ways with Science in 1990. (The divorce wasn't finalized until early 2001.)
31
@23 Doesn't this description usually make the gaydar start humming before the needle starts moving?:
"He's [.....] such a big romantic. He would take the ladies to the opera, maybe even sing for them over dinner."
"He's [.....] such a big romantic. He would take the ladies to the opera, maybe even sing for them over dinner."
32
@7: There's a difference between finding something repulsive and claiming something is repulsive but secretly being aroused by it. The former is something you acknowledge and file away. The latter creates internal dissonance that repeatedly bubbles to the surface.
For instance: I am completely put off by scat. I find the idea repulsive. And so I file that piece of information away in my head, and never think about it unless it comes up. Why would I waste my time thinking about something I find gross?
Now let's contrast that with Puritanistic ideas about sex. According to the American Taliban, sex is gross and demeaning and enlightened people are "beyond" such feelings. If I subscribed to that idea and claimed sex was gross, I guarantee you I would be thinking about sex even more than I do now. I'd be sticking my nose in everybody's business, condemning them if they're enjoying sex. And I'd probably be jacking off to porn in a basement somewhere, then crying tears of shame about my weakness.
Which group do the 'phobes resemble? The people who claim to dislike scat, or the people who claim to dislike sex?
[Not to take anything away from the asexuals out there, natch.]
For instance: I am completely put off by scat. I find the idea repulsive. And so I file that piece of information away in my head, and never think about it unless it comes up. Why would I waste my time thinking about something I find gross?
Now let's contrast that with Puritanistic ideas about sex. According to the American Taliban, sex is gross and demeaning and enlightened people are "beyond" such feelings. If I subscribed to that idea and claimed sex was gross, I guarantee you I would be thinking about sex even more than I do now. I'd be sticking my nose in everybody's business, condemning them if they're enjoying sex. And I'd probably be jacking off to porn in a basement somewhere, then crying tears of shame about my weakness.
Which group do the 'phobes resemble? The people who claim to dislike scat, or the people who claim to dislike sex?
[Not to take anything away from the asexuals out there, natch.]
33
@31 Wait a minute. That sounds like me when I was dating my future wife...before she found out what I was really like.
@7 I find the idea of male gay sex really weird myself, but I don't think about it very much although I often speak out strongly supporting LGBT rights to everything I have a right to including marriage and childrearing. I think about sex a lot, just not gay sex. This is why it also seems to me like a big signal light when a homophobe starts in on the physical details of gay sex. Most heteros I know really aren't interested...
@7 I find the idea of male gay sex really weird myself, but I don't think about it very much although I often speak out strongly supporting LGBT rights to everything I have a right to including marriage and childrearing. I think about sex a lot, just not gay sex. This is why it also seems to me like a big signal light when a homophobe starts in on the physical details of gay sex. Most heteros I know really aren't interested...
34
Maybe someone could get Scalia, Rck Perry and O'Keefe i a room together and see how comes out on top??
35
http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/abn/105/… is the original study. There have also been more recent ones confirming the first (agreeably smallish) study. It appears that the homophobes were mostly bisexual (everything turned them on) while the non-homophobes were turned on by lesbian sex and heterosexual sex. That's also why the homophobes talk about gayness being a choice I guess too.
Hey, I just thought of something: where's SB today!
@BEG 29. Yeah, that was a terrible (leading, hyperbolic, etc) question for a "journalist" to ask.
That newsbusters website is sick. Some of the comments are violently hateful.
Hey, I just thought of something: where's SB today!
@BEG 29. Yeah, that was a terrible (leading, hyperbolic, etc) question for a "journalist" to ask.
That newsbusters website is sick. Some of the comments are violently hateful.
36
If I subscribed to that idea and claimed sex was gross, I guarantee you I would be thinking about sex even more than I do now.
Sex is gross, when you think about it. Not that I'm thinking about it while I'm doing it. Or thinking much afterwards.
Sex is gross, when you think about it. Not that I'm thinking about it while I'm doing it. Or thinking much afterwards.
38
Dear Dan,
I've seen this mistake before in your writing. Now it's time for an intervention:
present tense = lead
past tense = led
.... so let's all picture Tim being LED out of a truckstop toilet in handcuffs.
You're welcome .....
I've seen this mistake before in your writing. Now it's time for an intervention:
present tense = lead
past tense = led
.... so let's all picture Tim being LED out of a truckstop toilet in handcuffs.
You're welcome .....
39
Dan,
I can't believe that this is even a question -- if they aren't gay, then they resent the overt sexual "freedom" (quoted because I know my gay history way too well) that gay men exhibit.
I had one kid torment me in high school -- mind you, before I even came out to MYSELF as bi -- with all manner of gay slurs. Hell, the last time I saw him I was a sophomore in college, and he actually took the time to stick the head out of his front door (Still living with the 'rents, Joe?) to shout the SAME dumbass comments (at this point I KNEW I was bi, and could probably have suggested some better slurs).
10 years later a neighbor told me he wound up as queer as Dubya in a Tux and living in Florida... as a hair dresser. As a writer I would have blue lined that crap right out, but the homophobic Long Guyland boy grew up to be a flaming queer.
In other news, sun rises in east...
I can't believe that this is even a question -- if they aren't gay, then they resent the overt sexual "freedom" (quoted because I know my gay history way too well) that gay men exhibit.
I had one kid torment me in high school -- mind you, before I even came out to MYSELF as bi -- with all manner of gay slurs. Hell, the last time I saw him I was a sophomore in college, and he actually took the time to stick the head out of his front door (Still living with the 'rents, Joe?) to shout the SAME dumbass comments (at this point I KNEW I was bi, and could probably have suggested some better slurs).
10 years later a neighbor told me he wound up as queer as Dubya in a Tux and living in Florida... as a hair dresser. As a writer I would have blue lined that crap right out, but the homophobic Long Guyland boy grew up to be a flaming queer.
In other news, sun rises in east...
40
Totally!
The next flaming faggot who tells you there’s something wrong with religion, start the countdown. It’s Psychology 101—the people who are the loudest and hate it the most hate something in themselves.
Expect Danny to out himself any day now as a closet Catholic Priest....
The next flaming faggot who tells you there’s something wrong with religion, start the countdown. It’s Psychology 101—the people who are the loudest and hate it the most hate something in themselves.
Expect Danny to out himself any day now as a closet Catholic Priest....
41
Of course they do. Peter LaBarbera, Tony Perkins and Bryan Fischer would give their left nut to do it.
42
Important exception here is Fred Phelps. He's not motivated by the urge to suck cock, he's just motivated by the urge to cause suffering in *someone*.
Fred is unable to achieve an erection without hurting someone.
Fred is unable to achieve an erection without hurting someone.
43
@40's attempt at absurdism isn't far from the truth. The positions of the loudest, most militant and vitriolic atheists can be readily characterized as affirmative faith in the absence of deity.
And while I can't speak for Dan, I think I and many other people who grew up going to church react strongly to evils in the name of religion in large part precisely because we've seen the ugliness that religion once brought out in us.
And while I can't speak for Dan, I think I and many other people who grew up going to church react strongly to evils in the name of religion in large part precisely because we've seen the ugliness that religion once brought out in us.
44
@19 What I don't get is why it's an insult. In my opinion, as the owner of a cock, good cocksuckers should get a medal and an annual parade in their honor.
45
@43: I can't think of a single atheist writer who fits that description. It sounds like the false stereotype of atheists that religious nuts have. In fact, pretty much all atheists will say that it's extremely unlikely that there is a god, based on the evidence we have.
I didn't grow up in a church, but I have no problem criticizing religion in general as harmful, because of the lack of critical thinking.
I didn't grow up in a church, but I have no problem criticizing religion in general as harmful, because of the lack of critical thinking.
46
Oh, @40 is just being facetious.
Indeed, there are non-gay homophobes: they're the ones who see conspiracy theories everywhere ('the gay agenda', 'recruiting', etc.). They don't think about sex so much as about someday becoming a minority and being persecuted by the gay majority.
It's this funny, odd fear we have that if something we identify with that happens to be frequent or normative in a certain area might be forced to disappear and become infrequent, exceptional, 'abnormal' if we allow the current exceptions to become 'normalized'. The fear that we, the majority, may someday also become a persecuted minority, and that our claim to 'normalcy', to 'correctness', to 'righteousness' (by means of frequency: we are the normals) might someday be no longer hold as the abnormals become frequent and therefore normal. Their sci-fi scenario: Mr X, the Last Straight Man on Earth, must hide and flee from the booing hordes of gay extremists while wiping a tear at the thought of how things were better in the past, in the Golden Days when everybody was straight... Etc.
Indeed, there are non-gay homophobes: they're the ones who see conspiracy theories everywhere ('the gay agenda', 'recruiting', etc.). They don't think about sex so much as about someday becoming a minority and being persecuted by the gay majority.
It's this funny, odd fear we have that if something we identify with that happens to be frequent or normative in a certain area might be forced to disappear and become infrequent, exceptional, 'abnormal' if we allow the current exceptions to become 'normalized'. The fear that we, the majority, may someday also become a persecuted minority, and that our claim to 'normalcy', to 'correctness', to 'righteousness' (by means of frequency: we are the normals) might someday be no longer hold as the abnormals become frequent and therefore normal. Their sci-fi scenario: Mr X, the Last Straight Man on Earth, must hide and flee from the booing hordes of gay extremists while wiping a tear at the thought of how things were better in the past, in the Golden Days when everybody was straight... Etc.
48
...men just wanna suck di-ick
oh, men just wanna suck
that's all they really want!
just co-ah-ah-ah-ock!
oh, men just wanna suck
that's all they really want!
just co-ah-ah-ah-ock!
49
Good God. This website has demonstrated time & time again that many people are into some freak-ass, kinky shit when it comes to sex but who the fuck would have sex with Scalia? He looks like the fucking stunt double for Jabba the Hut. Slug fucking the new thing?
51
When I was a little baby freshman in college in the last century, I was just beginning to understand the whole concept of gay. However, I was into sex and open-minded, just ignorant, mostly. During a summer semester, I was taking a sociology course that included a week on sex (ooooooooooh, how shocking). One day, while walking from class with a male friend who had a fiancee, I got into a discussion about blowjobs. He went on and on about how disgusting he thought blowjobs. I was stunned, frankly, I thought all guys loved blowjobs. I thought how strange it was for him to be so vehemently against them, like a girl might be.
So, even though I barely knew what gay truly was and even though this guy had a fiancee, I thought, gee, he's protesting a bit too much. Could he be gay?
It took a lot of years to go by, but guess what? The guy was gay and so far in the closet he couldn't see the doorknob. He's wasted his entire adult life hiding from it and making other people miserable. I wish I'd had the guts to call him out on his behavior back then. Maybe I could have saved the world some pain.
So, even though I barely knew what gay truly was and even though this guy had a fiancee, I thought, gee, he's protesting a bit too much. Could he be gay?
It took a lot of years to go by, but guess what? The guy was gay and so far in the closet he couldn't see the doorknob. He's wasted his entire adult life hiding from it and making other people miserable. I wish I'd had the guts to call him out on his behavior back then. Maybe I could have saved the world some pain.
52
My favorite thing about the piece at NewsBusters:
The banner add at the right of all the comments advertising the BATHOUSE spa and Mandalay Bay.
My favorite thing about the piece at NewsBusters:
The banner add at the right of all the comments advertising the BATHOUSE spa and Mandalay Bay.
53
Oh, @40, when will you ever understand that being religious is a choice? A disgusting, unnatural, fabric-of-society-destroying choice? But maybe there's hope for you, I'm an ex-religious counselor at a camp where we force people who have chosen belief in God to blaspheme and desecrate crucifixes. All out of love, of course, and only for $12,000.
54
@40 Savage attended a high school that prepares men for Vocations. His column frequently deals with ethical questions or the principled resolution of dilemmas. He may have turned away from the moral teachings of the church, but you have to admit that that's a mutual thing. How much less closeted a small-C catholic can he possibly be?
Let's have a brief history lesson. Prior to the 18th or 19th century, very few of the duties of a parish priest were matters of theology; the priest was the de facto administrator of the parish, as leader of the vestry, which was responsible for the upkeep and maintenance of the church - plus the roads, the civil law, the safety of the public and common law, the taxes, the public services, the quartering of any military resident in the parish, the keeping of public records, and the upkeep of common buildings and land.
The priest then had to minister to the people (hence "pastor", from the latin for shepherd), and resolve to the best of his ability all their petty quarrels, illnesses, failures, squabbles, disputes, and so on. The "community of faith" in which to hold Mass and preach the Gospels is not just an exercise in spoken latin; it kept parishioners from murdering each other or lynching said priest, which, while not common, was certainly not unknown.
In other words, the real business of ministry is not all smells and bells and middlebrow theology and how many angels can fit on the end of a pin. I'm pretty sure that Dan would have fit right in there, since who puts what where in whom, so long as they're all okay with it, seems like a very low priority in the great scheme of things. Keeping your neighbor's kids from killing your other neighbor's kids seems like a pretty high priority.
No doubt proof of my warped moral compass, of course. But if God is Love, and your best expression of virtue is to express Charity, kindness and love, to your fellow man, where do you stand?
More...
Let's have a brief history lesson. Prior to the 18th or 19th century, very few of the duties of a parish priest were matters of theology; the priest was the de facto administrator of the parish, as leader of the vestry, which was responsible for the upkeep and maintenance of the church - plus the roads, the civil law, the safety of the public and common law, the taxes, the public services, the quartering of any military resident in the parish, the keeping of public records, and the upkeep of common buildings and land.
The priest then had to minister to the people (hence "pastor", from the latin for shepherd), and resolve to the best of his ability all their petty quarrels, illnesses, failures, squabbles, disputes, and so on. The "community of faith" in which to hold Mass and preach the Gospels is not just an exercise in spoken latin; it kept parishioners from murdering each other or lynching said priest, which, while not common, was certainly not unknown.
In other words, the real business of ministry is not all smells and bells and middlebrow theology and how many angels can fit on the end of a pin. I'm pretty sure that Dan would have fit right in there, since who puts what where in whom, so long as they're all okay with it, seems like a very low priority in the great scheme of things. Keeping your neighbor's kids from killing your other neighbor's kids seems like a pretty high priority.
No doubt proof of my warped moral compass, of course. But if God is Love, and your best expression of virtue is to express Charity, kindness and love, to your fellow man, where do you stand?
55
Dan,
Not all homophobes are gay. I think that there are many cases where someone is a homophobe because they were raped or molested as a child. Becasue of my experiences as a child with a pedophile, it took me many years not to see all gay people as evil fucks.
Antonin Scalia may have been molested as a child and still cannot see that all gay people are not evil fucks who want to rape children. If this is the case, then calling him a cocksucker might be more psychologically damaging to him than you know. It's not that I particularly care about Antonin, it's that I don't see this subject, hating gay's because of childhood trauma, ever brought up as a cause of homophobia.
It doesn't help if you go around calling every homophobe a cocksucker if that homophobe hates gays because of a deeply personal trauma. All you are spreading is more hate or making thier hate more intransigent.
Yes you should stand up for yourself and say gay people have the right to exist with the same freedoms as anyone else, but I'd like to think that compassion and understanding are better than name calling. I'm probably wrong about that though.
Quick note about the science: "studies have found that homophobic men are "most aroused" by gay porn." This does not cancel my point. I'm sure the study mearly measured the physiological response of homophobic men. If you've spent some or most of your childhood geting sexually serviced by a male pedophile you might have a physiological response to gay porn, it doesn't necessarily mean you are "turned on" by gay porn.
Not all homophobes are gay. I think that there are many cases where someone is a homophobe because they were raped or molested as a child. Becasue of my experiences as a child with a pedophile, it took me many years not to see all gay people as evil fucks.
Antonin Scalia may have been molested as a child and still cannot see that all gay people are not evil fucks who want to rape children. If this is the case, then calling him a cocksucker might be more psychologically damaging to him than you know. It's not that I particularly care about Antonin, it's that I don't see this subject, hating gay's because of childhood trauma, ever brought up as a cause of homophobia.
It doesn't help if you go around calling every homophobe a cocksucker if that homophobe hates gays because of a deeply personal trauma. All you are spreading is more hate or making thier hate more intransigent.
Yes you should stand up for yourself and say gay people have the right to exist with the same freedoms as anyone else, but I'd like to think that compassion and understanding are better than name calling. I'm probably wrong about that though.
Quick note about the science: "studies have found that homophobic men are "most aroused" by gay porn." This does not cancel my point. I'm sure the study mearly measured the physiological response of homophobic men. If you've spent some or most of your childhood geting sexually serviced by a male pedophile you might have a physiological response to gay porn, it doesn't necessarily mean you are "turned on" by gay porn.
56
@55, where to begin?
Gay ≠ pedophile.
If Antonin Scalia is so delicate as to incur psychological damage over being called a cocksucker, he probably does need help. But it's hard for me to sympathize with him because he's in a position of great authority and he should know better than to allow his hatred (whether it's based on "deeply personal trauma" or just plain assholery) to affect his decisions--which, in turn, affect real people.
We should not cater to and coddle public figures who have hateful views. We should oppose them.
Also, gay ≠ pedophile.
Gay ≠ pedophile.
If Antonin Scalia is so delicate as to incur psychological damage over being called a cocksucker, he probably does need help. But it's hard for me to sympathize with him because he's in a position of great authority and he should know better than to allow his hatred (whether it's based on "deeply personal trauma" or just plain assholery) to affect his decisions--which, in turn, affect real people.
We should not cater to and coddle public figures who have hateful views. We should oppose them.
Also, gay ≠ pedophile.
57
@56, #55 didn't say gay = pedophile, he said that people can be anti-gay because of a negative experience with someone who is gay. Just like people can be racist because of a bad experience with someone of a minority race.
58
And if you mean that child molestation often has nothing to do with sexual orientation/attraction, you may be right, but that doesn't change the associations made in a kid's mind, prejudicial as they may be.
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