Slog
News & ArtsMonday, June 20, 2011
City / LGBTQITSLFA Local Printer Refuses Service to New Capitol Hill Gay Bar
Posted by Cienna Madrid on Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 5:05 PM
Updated with comments from the ACLU, which says that the printer's actions violate state law.
Citing the owner's moral objections, a local print shop is refusing to print flyers advertising the debut of a Capitol Hill bar on the grounds that it caters to a gay clientele.
- The "immoral" flyer not fit for print.
But on Tuesday, they received an email from the printer. "I have some bad news. :/," wrote Sarah Wheeler, an employee with Access Printed Media. "Not that we're against homosexuals at all, but because knowing that our printed products will be advertising and promoting the kind of lifestyle that goes against our morals is something that [the owner] can't bring himself to do... :/"
"We were horrified when we got the email," says Reis. "I felt sickened, furious, humiliated. Obviously, they do have a problem with homosexuals, but they couldn't even pick up the phone and call us. You’d expect this kind of close-mindedness somewhere else—out of the state or east of the mountains. Not here."
Reached by phone today, Wheeler admitted that the Diesel flyers depicted "nothing inflammatory whatsoever." (You can see the flier for yourself by clicking the image to the right to enlarge.)
Wheeler reiterated that the decision was "nothing against homosexuals themselves. We’re just not morally able to promote that kind of a lifestyle."
Wheeler says the company has no written document that outlines the business's moral-related printing policy. She did say they once refused to print an advertisement for a tarot reader. She also declined to tell this reporter more about the printer's moral code, saying that I "sounded close-minded." She added, "We're a small business owned by a small conservative Christian family. I'm sorry but we have values and we can print whatever we want."
But the ACLU of WA says the printer can't legally turn down the job. "The print shop's refusal to provide services violated state law," states ACLU spokesman Doug Honig. "The Washington Law Against Discrimination... bars discrimination based on sexual orientation and require[s] businesses open to the general public to serve all customers equally. The bar owner can file a complaint with the WA Human Rights Commission. The ACLU would be glad to hear from the bar owner and provide assistance if he wishes to pursue the matter."
A quick search of the company website shows that the company doesn't advertise its conservative Christian morals. It also fails to state, "We don't accept the money of homosexuals" prominently on its web page.
Fortunately, Reis and Hurst were able to work with gotprint.com to fulfill their flyer order. "We're looking forward to Pride weekend and the opening of our bar," says Reis. "It's going to be a flag bearing, hat-hanging bear bar. Something very masculine but with a non-intimidating image. A very inclusive place."
Diesel has no firm opening date. The couple, along with manager Mark Engelmann—former manager of CC Attle's—hopes to open the bear bar sometime this summer at 1413 14th Avenue (next to Chop Suey).
1
That seems borderline violation of Washington's anti-discrimination law...although the email explaining why they wouldn't print it, in my view, pushes it over the line.
But yay! for a new bear bar!
But yay! for a new bear bar!
4
I'm surprised.
If they don't carry flyers for gay-friendly businesses - what are they doing running a print shop on Capitol Hill?
If they don't carry flyers for gay-friendly businesses - what are they doing running a print shop on Capitol Hill?
11
Instead of "Get Pumped!" they should have stuck with their original catch phrase "Visit Us and A Dick May Piston Your Heinie!"
13
Next time they should use Phoenix in Portland. Pretty cheap and they ship overnight!
And they'll print ANYTHING!
And they'll print ANYTHING!
15
Bad homo! Girlie Press is just up the street and ADVERTISES IN THE GSBA GUIDE! (along with three other printers who want your gay business enough to join the GSBA)
That is no way to build a business on capitol hill. Get with the times, join up and use the guide. We spend all this time building a gay mafia, people are too stupid to use it then complain about "I felt sickened, furious, humiliated" you should!
Bad, bad homo!
That is no way to build a business on capitol hill. Get with the times, join up and use the guide. We spend all this time building a gay mafia, people are too stupid to use it then complain about "I felt sickened, furious, humiliated" you should!
Bad, bad homo!
16
Turning down lucrative work...what a great way to run a business. At least we all know who NOT to patronize for our printing needs!
19
My knee-jerk reaction was outrage, but after taking a few breaths, that changed.
Screw 'em. We don't want gay dollars going to people like that anyhow.
Screw 'em. We don't want gay dollars going to people like that anyhow.
22
Not that I would know, but that guy in the lower right of their home page seems pretty gay.
http://www.accessprintedmedia.com/
http://www.accessprintedmedia.com/
23
Someone with a Yelp account (yeah, I'm too lazy) should add Access Printed Media to Yelp and then leave a review. That way, people would be able to make an informed decision about whether they want to give their business to homophobes.
24
I think they refused to print for the tarot reader, not to strike a blow for rationality, but because tarot reading is wicked wicked devil magic.
Honestly, why would anyone with such tender sensibilites go into the print shop business?
Honestly, why would anyone with such tender sensibilites go into the print shop business?
25
@15 - Beside the point, but I too was wondering how they stumbled some Kent-based mom and pop. People in the flier/poster/handbill biz usually have a go-to company—worst case scenario, someone running a bar should easily be within shouting distance of a printer recommendation.
26
Of course, the ad DOES require whosoever prints it to be exposed to the words, "Bullshit" and "Ass." those are BAD WORDS. I know a couple of prissy, manners-obsessed gay folks down here who would refuse to print that ad on those grounds.
Still, if you don't want to take big gay bear $$ to provide services for the big gay bear lifestyle, I suggest it's in your best interest to move down here to South Carolina. And then, once we down here catch up to y'all up there in ten-twenty years or so, move to Uganda or Jamacia. Then once they catch up, all those lovely little countries whose names end in -Stan.
Hell, I'd kick in a few $$ here and there to fund an anti-gay migration trust. We're happy to live with you, but if y'all don't want to live with us, we're pleased to be all neighborly and help you move to where folks are more like you.
Still, if you don't want to take big gay bear $$ to provide services for the big gay bear lifestyle, I suggest it's in your best interest to move down here to South Carolina. And then, once we down here catch up to y'all up there in ten-twenty years or so, move to Uganda or Jamacia. Then once they catch up, all those lovely little countries whose names end in -Stan.
Hell, I'd kick in a few $$ here and there to fund an anti-gay migration trust. We're happy to live with you, but if y'all don't want to live with us, we're pleased to be all neighborly and help you move to where folks are more like you.
27
I couldn't find a Yelp link but I found a few other places to post reviews (like merchantcircle.com, etc.). It shouldn't be too hard to let potential clients of Access Printed Media know that they should take their business to a company that doesn't suddenly develop "Christian values" after they agree to do a job.
Oh, bigots, when will you learn.
Oh, bigots, when will you learn.
30
She also declined to tell this reporter more about the printer's moral code, saying that I "sounded close-minded."
Uh, kettle?
Even though I think the owners we wrong to decline their business, they were well within their rights to do so (other legal scholars on here are free to correct me if I'm wrong). Here's hoping other businesses also exercise their right to choose and go elsewhere for their printing needs.
Uh, kettle?
Even though I think the owners we wrong to decline their business, they were well within their rights to do so (other legal scholars on here are free to correct me if I'm wrong). Here's hoping other businesses also exercise their right to choose and go elsewhere for their printing needs.
31
They just lost business and probably drove away a bunch of potential customers because of this. They didn't hurt anyone but themselves.
33
@14: "I'm kind of OK with the fact that they don't print adverts for tarot card readers."
Yeah, but stopped clockwise, it's because they believe "witchcraft is a conduit to SATAN" or something so silly, not because soothsayers are fraudulent.
Yeah, but stopped clockwise, it's because they believe "witchcraft is a conduit to SATAN" or something so silly, not because soothsayers are fraudulent.
34
@29, it must be because you don't check with Capitol Hill Seattle blog often enough - they posted up tons of deets two weeks ago.
http://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2011/0…
More recently, CHS noted a big Chelsea type gay dance club set to open in the 17,000 square foot garage on Broadway a block from Neighbours - tons of artist renderings too:
http://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2011/0…
http://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2011/0…
More recently, CHS noted a big Chelsea type gay dance club set to open in the 17,000 square foot garage on Broadway a block from Neighbours - tons of artist renderings too:
"We want this to be for the neighborhood," Scott said. "We're willing to turn away five of the wrong people so one person from Capitol Hill wants to be here."
http://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2011/0…
35
@1, I don't think this is a border-line violation of WA anti-discrimination law. It is a blatant violation.
Expect to get a visit from the state, bigots. You want to run a business like that? Move to Idaho.
Expect to get a visit from the state, bigots. You want to run a business like that? Move to Idaho.
36
I have more of a problem with the stupidity of turning down a paying client in this shitty economy than I do with the owner's bigotry.
Having said that, calling homosexuals amoral and refusing to print their flyers means you are against homosexuals. Just admit it. Don't try to follow this stupid "Love the sinner but hate the sin" line.
When the sin is the only thing you care about, you are incapable of loving the sinner.
Having said that, calling homosexuals amoral and refusing to print their flyers means you are against homosexuals. Just admit it. Don't try to follow this stupid "Love the sinner but hate the sin" line.
When the sin is the only thing you care about, you are incapable of loving the sinner.
37
I hope their printed products are of better graphic quality than their web site. Yikes.
http://www.accessprintedmedia.com/
http://www.accessprintedmedia.com/
38
You all are assuming that the print shop was opposed to promoting homosexuality. Maybe they just don't like bears.
BTW, when is a redhead bar opening around here, for us breeders?
BTW, when is a redhead bar opening around here, for us breeders?
39
It still blows my mind that people can say, "I am not against X, but I am going to do something that is obviously and completely against X."
It makes my day-to-day life difficult at times.
It makes my day-to-day life difficult at times.
40
I can barely look at the horrible website, but I hope everybody takes a moment to contact customer service and encourage them to change their entire opinions about the subject, or go broke.
43
People like them can refuse the business. It gives the rest of us more! I got a promotional products company and am pro-equality. I'd love to take on what these bigots throw away... www.adimpressions.net
44
"It's not that we're at all against niggers, but knowing that these flyers would promote anti-slavery we just can't support it." Now what would happen?
45
@40, slog commenter Nate--who sent the company an email--let me know that the link on their site is faulty. If you want to email them, molly@accessprintedmedia.com is the email to use.
46
I think the worst part about all this is they had the nerve to call Cienna "closed minded". Bigotry really warps your view of reality.
47
@42 And the spacing of the words at the top. Really, from Coming Soon down, I likes...from Coming Soon up, I hates...
48
Cienna, Thanks for letting me know about this place, Ill put it on the list of places to never go.
49
"We were horrified when we got the email," says Reis. "I felt sickened, furious, humiliated. Obviously, they do have a problem with homosexuals, but they couldn't even pick up the phone and call us. You’d expect this kind of close-mindedness somewhere else—out of the state or east of the mountains. Not here."
Remember when there was a website showing all the people who donated to California's anti-gay marriage prop a few years back? The one with the map feature? That showed that there were donors who lived right in the Castro district.
Homophobes are everywhere. I might understand this kind of surprise if the business were based in Seattle (the actual city, not the greater metro area), but Kent's a little less progressive.
50
The proof of "We have nothing against homosexuals" would be how they might vote on a marriage equality ballot measure. If they were to vote against it, then, yes, they definitely have something against homosexuals. That something is a outright denial of a basic human right - not just some B2B commerce. Given their statement that they want nothing to do with teh gays, it's a pretty solid conclusion that they would vote against the aforementioned hypothetical measure.
Ergo . . . fucking bigots.
Ergo . . . fucking bigots.
51
The Washington State Human Rights Commission investigates sexual orientation discrimination in places of public accommodation. Their forms are available here:
http://www.hum.wa.gov/complaintProcess/
http://www.hum.wa.gov/complaintProcess/
52
Just to clarify as to why they picked a company in Kent -- they're from near Kent. The informal gathering of bears that led to this bar was down in that general area.
The more you know ===*
The more you know ===*
53
So how many people here would be outraged if a gay-owner printer refused to print Westboro Baptist Church materials?
55
I'm all for supporting "local business" but how about supporting GLBT owned businesses!??!?
Like Granny Smith said, the GSBA advertises for local AND GLBT businesses.
Like Granny Smith said, the GSBA advertises for local AND GLBT businesses.
56
@54: Cool. As long as we're clear that it's ok to decline "hate speech" but it's not ok to decline "immoral speech", I guess we're good. Oh, wait, can a gay-owned printer decline business they consider immoral but not "hate"?
57
Seriously, WTF...
The good news is, this will probably generate more publicity for the bar than the flyers ever would!
The good news is, this will probably generate more publicity for the bar than the flyers ever would!
58
@56 don't you hate it when people "out" you for being a hypocrite?
That's what happened to the printer that wouldn't do up flyers.
That's what happened to the printer that wouldn't do up flyers.
59
They could turn this around and lock up all the printing business in the "God Hates Fags" sign market, but for the obvious fact that the printing budget for "God Hates Fags" signs is zero dollars, a Big Chief tablet, and a pack of Crayola markers.
62
I kind of agree with @53. You can argue about whether there should be a law on the books against this kind of thing (and I have no idea whether there is), but it seems a bit much to turn to the courts in a situation like this. Which is to say, it really doesn't seem like that big a deal for a printer to discriminate with respect to the material it prints (we have no reason to believe that the printer discriminates based on the views or sexual orientation of its customers per se). As plenty of others have pointed out, there is a vibrant market ready to supply printing services to all paying customers.
So I guess I would say, think a bit about whether you really want every printer to have to print anything and everything that a customer will pay for. Are there any sentiments that you can think of that a printer shouldn't have to print, if the customer is willing to pay? Can you think of anything a baker should be allowed not to put on a cake? Any products a newspaper should be allowed not to advertize?
So I guess I would say, think a bit about whether you really want every printer to have to print anything and everything that a customer will pay for. Are there any sentiments that you can think of that a printer shouldn't have to print, if the customer is willing to pay? Can you think of anything a baker should be allowed not to put on a cake? Any products a newspaper should be allowed not to advertize?
64
@58: Whoosh! That's the sound of my point going right over your head.
@62 got it. Do we really want to force people to print (or bake, or paint, or whatever) stuff they find personally abhorrent -- even if we know that their abhorrence itself is morally wrong?
@62 got it. Do we really want to force people to print (or bake, or paint, or whatever) stuff they find personally abhorrent -- even if we know that their abhorrence itself is morally wrong?
65
And to the fucking assholes who are trying to find "justification" in what this business did...replace "gay" with the word "black" and tell us if you still think that it's okay.
66
@65 - this comparison had occurred to me too. But it's silly. This business is not discriminating against gay people. We have no reason to believe that a gay person couldn't print a poster promoting his band, or his business, or even his wedding. We only know that this particular printer would rather not print a poster promoting a venue for meeting gay sex partners (at least in his mind).
It is a viewpoint that the printer would rather not endorse, a behavior he would rather not promote. This isn't at all comparable to, say, declining to serve hamburgers to black people.
If the ACLU does sue this guy, then maybe the ACLU can also defend him on First Amendment grounds.
It is a viewpoint that the printer would rather not endorse, a behavior he would rather not promote. This isn't at all comparable to, say, declining to serve hamburgers to black people.
If the ACLU does sue this guy, then maybe the ACLU can also defend him on First Amendment grounds.
67
@65: Nobody's finding justification for what the business did, you cute little foul-mouthed persecuted soul.
Some of us are just saying that it's better to leave backwards folks like that be, let them embarrass themselves, and move on. But hey, post phone numbers and advocate harassment all you want. It's counter-productive and will just make them hate gays more, but it's not like I'll lose sleep over it.
Some of us are just saying that it's better to leave backwards folks like that be, let them embarrass themselves, and move on. But hey, post phone numbers and advocate harassment all you want. It's counter-productive and will just make them hate gays more, but it's not like I'll lose sleep over it.
68
@65 and @67 - I'm not trying to justify what the printer did, in that I have no problem with gay bars and would gladly print the flyer if I were in his shoes. But I am trying to justify the principle that he had a right to decline the business if it offended him. It was to isolate this principle from the specific facts in front of us that @53 used the Westboro Baptist Church example.
It's pretty galling, because I can imagine the outraged Slog post that would get written if a conservative group tried to force a gay printer to print something that is disgusting to us. It would be a mirror image of the post we're commenting on, with outraged gay commentators and liberal litigation groups itching to slap the conservatives down.
"Hard cases make bad law," goes the saying, and it means that you can't decide that you're going to correct the outrage in front of you by establishing a precedent that will itself lead to bad results if applied consistently. So, if you want to use the law to force this printer to print up the flyers, then please consider what this entails. And think a minute about whether the market solution (hire a different printer) might not be the solution you are most comfortable with.
It's pretty galling, because I can imagine the outraged Slog post that would get written if a conservative group tried to force a gay printer to print something that is disgusting to us. It would be a mirror image of the post we're commenting on, with outraged gay commentators and liberal litigation groups itching to slap the conservatives down.
"Hard cases make bad law," goes the saying, and it means that you can't decide that you're going to correct the outrage in front of you by establishing a precedent that will itself lead to bad results if applied consistently. So, if you want to use the law to force this printer to print up the flyers, then please consider what this entails. And think a minute about whether the market solution (hire a different printer) might not be the solution you are most comfortable with.
69
@53 I might be outraged at the stupidity of falling into WBC's trap. Having their rights violated, and suing for it, is how WBC makes money.
71
@66 - Yes, I too wonder whether this print shop broke the law. It sounds like if a straight person wanted this poster printed, they would have refused as well, and straight people aren't protected by this particular law.
Obviously to anyone reading this, I'm not a lawyer. And I find the print shop's objection to this poster to be clearly bigoted. But I'd be curious to know if there's a legal distinction between refusing business to a customer because they are gay and refusing to print something that promotes a gay bar.
Obviously to anyone reading this, I'm not a lawyer. And I find the print shop's objection to this poster to be clearly bigoted. But I'd be curious to know if there's a legal distinction between refusing business to a customer because they are gay and refusing to print something that promotes a gay bar.
72
"We were horrified when we got the email," says Reis. "I felt sickened, furious, humiliated."
Are drama queens allowed to work in bear bars?
Are drama queens allowed to work in bear bars?
73
I'm going to take this opportunity to plug a digital print vendor I use frequently: Copymachine (one word) in Pioneer Square. Great prices, great service, no arbitrary "moral" judging of their clientele. They do good work fast and they're great guys.
A lot of companies like the one I work for pride themselves on not only their anti-discrimination policies but for partnering with minority owned businesses. I hope this crappy "moral" printer folds.
A lot of companies like the one I work for pride themselves on not only their anti-discrimination policies but for partnering with minority owned businesses. I hope this crappy "moral" printer folds.
75
Does anyone have a screen cap of their homepage? Now that it's down, I really feel like I missed out.
76
@66: Note that it was the content of the poster that they objected to, not the sexual orientation of the client. Would it be bigoted if they refused to print a poster for an event focused on straight sexuality?
77
The law that these people are breaking is about protecting specific groups...
If a gay person gets mugged, but there's no indication that they were mugged because they were gay, then it's just straight up a mugging. But if a gay person is attacked BECAUSE they're gay (if the attack is combined with hate speech, etc), then it's a hate crime.
If a printer turns down work because the client walks in drunk and makes a mess, because they're out of purple ink, because they just think the poster is ugly, then whatever. But if they straight up SAY that they're turning down the work because the clients are gay, then it's discriminatory business practice.
That's my understanding, anyway. I ain't a lawyer.
If a gay person gets mugged, but there's no indication that they were mugged because they were gay, then it's just straight up a mugging. But if a gay person is attacked BECAUSE they're gay (if the attack is combined with hate speech, etc), then it's a hate crime.
If a printer turns down work because the client walks in drunk and makes a mess, because they're out of purple ink, because they just think the poster is ugly, then whatever. But if they straight up SAY that they're turning down the work because the clients are gay, then it's discriminatory business practice.
That's my understanding, anyway. I ain't a lawyer.
78
I wonder how they feel about printing ads for bars where straight people hook up. I mean, isn't any sex outside of marriage, especially casual sex, against traditional Christian values?
I'm not being facetious. I'd be interested to know if they've refused to print ads for other bars, dance clubs, or strip clubs on the same grounds.
I'm not being facetious. I'd be interested to know if they've refused to print ads for other bars, dance clubs, or strip clubs on the same grounds.
79
Well, to those of you who ~aren't~ upset about the tarot card exclusion, *I AM!!!*
Tarot cards shop refusal, aka "devil worship" anti-pagan prejudice, IS A RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE ISSUE ON PAR WITH HOMOPHOBIA.
Before you unleash the hellhounds declaring that soothsayers are charlatans and quacks, I know that anyone who does fortunetelling for money is most likely a quack. (And the hellhounds like me anyhow, I bring them treats).
Would they have rejected a poly club flyer as well?
This too, would be discrimination from a religious basis.
But, since these are some of the LAST CLOSETS that no one dares to come out of, for fear of repErcussions to their employment and children, no one will talk about Pagan and Poly Taboos. To those that do come out of these closets, they walk a very brave and difficult line; I admire them for it.
I am soooo tired of people snidely saying:
"I have a moral objection to your ethical, upstanding citizenship; because you have a lifestyle that my middleman says is in this old book by dead people, that has words in it, that says YOU'RE WRONG AND YOU'RE GOING TO HELL."
It's all bigotry, and all stupid, and all should be recognized as religious prejudice leading to a refusal of services illegally!
GAH!
(gets off soapbox, begins morning coffee)
AND A MERRY SUMMER SOLSTICE TO ALL!
Tarot cards shop refusal, aka "devil worship" anti-pagan prejudice, IS A RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE ISSUE ON PAR WITH HOMOPHOBIA.
Before you unleash the hellhounds declaring that soothsayers are charlatans and quacks, I know that anyone who does fortunetelling for money is most likely a quack. (And the hellhounds like me anyhow, I bring them treats).
Would they have rejected a poly club flyer as well?
This too, would be discrimination from a religious basis.
But, since these are some of the LAST CLOSETS that no one dares to come out of, for fear of repErcussions to their employment and children, no one will talk about Pagan and Poly Taboos. To those that do come out of these closets, they walk a very brave and difficult line; I admire them for it.
I am soooo tired of people snidely saying:
"I have a moral objection to your ethical, upstanding citizenship; because you have a lifestyle that my middleman says is in this old book by dead people, that has words in it, that says YOU'RE WRONG AND YOU'RE GOING TO HELL."
It's all bigotry, and all stupid, and all should be recognized as religious prejudice leading to a refusal of services illegally!
GAH!
(gets off soapbox, begins morning coffee)
AND A MERRY SUMMER SOLSTICE TO ALL!
80
Would it be okay if they refused to print up a flyer for a Jewish singles mixer because as Christians, they can't promote the immoral Christless lifestyle?
83
@79: "Tarot cards shop refusal, aka "devil worship" anti-pagan prejudice, IS A RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE ISSUE ON PAR WITH HOMOPHOBIA. "
whut
Tarot is not a "religious" ceremony simply because pagans like to do it and it's sold in New Age shops. It's entirely secular.
whut
Tarot is not a "religious" ceremony simply because pagans like to do it and it's sold in New Age shops. It's entirely secular.
84
@83, You must have missed the part where I said pagans and Tarot are not mutually exclusive.
My point was that any non-conventional, non-organized religion, is still something Americans feel they have to hide from public knowledge, for fear of legal repercussions to their families.
No, it's not like Jim Crow, or even quite like gay rights.
But religious intolerance from monotheists does create a hostile environment for the polytheistic/atheistic minorities out there, and I feel it is a form of bigotry that our society won't even ADMIT exists.
And OMG let's not even TALK about the failure of monogamy for so many people, that it is *so deeply tied* to the same monotheistic religious organizations as a way to control people by their instinctive natures. Polyamoury takes extreme honestly and maturity, constant self-reflection, and a willingness to go through difficulties for the sake of interpersonal growth. Which is another reason it is not popular here, in America. And I do mean Polyamoury, not Polygamy or Polyandry.
My point was that any non-conventional, non-organized religion, is still something Americans feel they have to hide from public knowledge, for fear of legal repercussions to their families.
No, it's not like Jim Crow, or even quite like gay rights.
But religious intolerance from monotheists does create a hostile environment for the polytheistic/atheistic minorities out there, and I feel it is a form of bigotry that our society won't even ADMIT exists.
And OMG let's not even TALK about the failure of monogamy for so many people, that it is *so deeply tied* to the same monotheistic religious organizations as a way to control people by their instinctive natures. Polyamoury takes extreme honestly and maturity, constant self-reflection, and a willingness to go through difficulties for the sake of interpersonal growth. Which is another reason it is not popular here, in America. And I do mean Polyamoury, not Polygamy or Polyandry.
85
I'm all fine with the Kent folks turning away whatever business they want to turn away. Yeah, it's kind of wimpy of 'em not to be open and out there about what their morals is, but I believe that Slog has taken care of that.
With that done, and the not-yet-opened bar having received a fair amount of free publicity, I'd strongly encourage them to keep their business in the hood, or at least in city. There are doubtless plenty of printers much closer to the bar that will be happy to take this and any future business.
Yeah, public accomodation laws are important, but I don't think there's any need to use them here. Let 'em do their best to subsist on a steady diet of xtian wedding 'nouncements.
With that done, and the not-yet-opened bar having received a fair amount of free publicity, I'd strongly encourage them to keep their business in the hood, or at least in city. There are doubtless plenty of printers much closer to the bar that will be happy to take this and any future business.
Yeah, public accomodation laws are important, but I don't think there's any need to use them here. Let 'em do their best to subsist on a steady diet of xtian wedding 'nouncements.
86
I'm late in the fray here, but some reading comprehension:
The "lifestyle" they mention is never described in detail; the reply from the print company does indicate that they're not against homosexuality.
I read that to mean that they're against the [perceived] promiscuity that the bar would be [presumptively] encouraging. That doesn't make them, inherently, from what we know, homophobic.
The "lifestyle" they mention is never described in detail; the reply from the print company does indicate that they're not against homosexuality.
I read that to mean that they're against the [perceived] promiscuity that the bar would be [presumptively] encouraging. That doesn't make them, inherently, from what we know, homophobic.
87
I'm waiting for the slog article on the print shop who refuses to print materials for the westboro baptist church.
89
I live in Kent, I am gay and I will make sure that everyone I know, both business and personal will never use Access Printed Media in the future. KARMA baby KARMA!!!
90
The statement was written by a new employee/temp and was NOT authorized by the owner. Also, the only reservations the owner had was due to the profanity and sexuallly explicit nature of the flyers... regardless of what sexual orientation it was. That is NOT discrimination. Just like a restaurant can turn away patrons based on dress code... flip flops or men in tank tops.
91
what the hell? i am no where near a "anti-Gay" activist,but what is really going on??? i can tell you right now this is an "awkward" "uh oh!", moment in the whole anti-gay straight life persona A.K.A (closeted queer), easy way out! f*ck that!!!
evry time i turn my face i see another rant raving closeted fearful homosexual... there is no difference in what this states in regards to what a freakin hetrosexual porn shop or what have a "adult night club" may possibly want to announce as there rot twat advertisement of acceptable pleasures desires.....
gary taylor....
evry time i turn my face i see another rant raving closeted fearful homosexual... there is no difference in what this states in regards to what a freakin hetrosexual porn shop or what have a "adult night club" may possibly want to announce as there rot twat advertisement of acceptable pleasures desires.....
gary taylor....
92
So, PSG, you refused to print it because of two curse words I can find in a PG-rated film, and then a double-entendre? A double-entendre that *isn't* a curse word? Sorry. Not buying it.
93
To those of you who dont seem to understand -- the story was updated w/the following from the ACLU: "The Washington Law Against Discrimination... bars discrimination based on sexual orientation and require[s] businesses open to the general public to serve all customers equally. The bar owner can file a complaint with the WA Human Rights Commission."
It isnt just wrong, rude, or bigoted, it is against the law.
It isnt just wrong, rude, or bigoted, it is against the law.
94
hey folks... I work for a local minority owned printshop in seattle and would welcome the opportunity to print for any and everyone in our fine city!! - I'm working with quite a few of the bars and clubs... babeland... the ACLU...all sorts of amazing folks - so just holler out...
Access Printed Media's behavior is mind boggling, outrageous and pure lunacy to me - bring on the bears I say!!!
carriec@unitedreporgraphics.com
Access Printed Media's behavior is mind boggling, outrageous and pure lunacy to me - bring on the bears I say!!!
carriec@unitedreporgraphics.com
95
The printing company is refusing to print because of vulgar content (language). Not because they are homophobic.
People are so gullible. Gotta hand it to the folks who are attempting to launch this new "gay-bar". This is a very smart (not to mention the most cost-effective) way to get a new business a "butt-load" of free advertising. Very slick. The media loves to put a "spin" on a story to cause a stir and guess what,.....it worked! Worked like magic. :o(
People are so gullible. Gotta hand it to the folks who are attempting to launch this new "gay-bar". This is a very smart (not to mention the most cost-effective) way to get a new business a "butt-load" of free advertising. Very slick. The media loves to put a "spin" on a story to cause a stir and guess what,.....it worked! Worked like magic. :o(
96
The printing company is refusing to print because of vulgar content (language). Not because they are homophobic.
People are so gullible. Gotta hand it to the folks who are attempting to launch this new "gay-bar". This is a very smart (not to mention the most cost-effective) way to get a new business a "butt-load" of free advertising. Very slick. The media loves to put a "spin" on a story to cause a stir and guess what,.....it worked! Worked like magic. :o(
People are so gullible. Gotta hand it to the folks who are attempting to launch this new "gay-bar". This is a very smart (not to mention the most cost-effective) way to get a new business a "butt-load" of free advertising. Very slick. The media loves to put a "spin" on a story to cause a stir and guess what,.....it worked! Worked like magic. :o(
97
94
hey folks... I work for a local minority owned printshop in seattle and would welcome the opportunity to print for any and everyone in our fine city!! - I'm working with quite a few of the bars and clubs... babeland... the ACLU...all sorts of amazing folks - so just holler out...
Access Printed Media's behavior is mind boggling, outrageous and pure lunacy to me - bring on the bears I say!!!
carriec@unitedreporgraphics.com
hey folks... I work for a local minority owned printshop in seattle and would welcome the opportunity to print for any and everyone in our fine city!! - I'm working with quite a few of the bars and clubs... babeland... the ACLU...all sorts of amazing folks - so just holler out...
Access Printed Media's behavior is mind boggling, outrageous and pure lunacy to me - bring on the bears I say!!!
carriec@unitedreporgraphics.com
99
@23 & 32 - That is not what Yelp is for! Yelp is for reviews by actual customers or people who have actually attempted to become their customers. Your suggestion for people to write reviews without having first hand experience with Access Media damages the basic integrity of Yelp.
Reviews that violate Content Guidelines (http://www.yelp.com/guidelines - specifically:
"Please make sure your contributions are relevant and appropriate to the forum. For example, reviews aren't the place for random rants about a business's employment practices, political ideologies, or other matters that don't address the core of the consumer experience. Some things are better addressed in other forums") will either be flagged by long term members of the community or wholly wiped out by corporate, so you may as well find something more useful to do with your time.
Reviews that violate Content Guidelines (http://www.yelp.com/guidelines - specifically:
"Please make sure your contributions are relevant and appropriate to the forum. For example, reviews aren't the place for random rants about a business's employment practices, political ideologies, or other matters that don't address the core of the consumer experience. Some things are better addressed in other forums") will either be flagged by long term members of the community or wholly wiped out by corporate, so you may as well find something more useful to do with your time.
100
It wasn't because of sexual orientation. Access didn't want to print a flyer with explicit language. The girl who sent the email did so without the knowledge or consent of the owner.
101
@71 -- straight people are indeed covered by non-discrimination laws that include sexual orientation (because "straight" is a sexual orientation). While the laws are commonly termed "gay rights laws", in fact they cover anyone with a sexual orientation, and prohibit discrimination based on that factor. While primarily used to prevent anti-gay discrimination, there have been cases where gay bars refused to hire straight people, and the straight folks followed the procedures and won (some were in court, some were in administrative venues).
102
All this is based on the actions & comments of the print shop EMPLOYEE, Sarah Wheeler, who is an acquaintance of the bar owner. The bar owner worked through Wheeler, his acquaintance. She wrongly assumed the OWNER/operator's reason for declining the work in her personal reply to the bar owner.
The owner delined to print profanity.
The ACLU should go after the employee who sent the owner to her friend, not the shop owner who knew nothing about the email.
The owner delined to print profanity.
The ACLU should go after the employee who sent the owner to her friend, not the shop owner who knew nothing about the email.
103
The ACLU should go after the employee who sent the offensive EMAIL to her friend, not the shop owner who knew nothing about the email.
104
Reading through the hateful nature of the responses I find your behavior shameful. What many of you are doing and advocating is much worse than the actions of the print shop owner.
A small business owner declined a job and many of you want want to harm his business and his family? That the epitome of liberal tolerance.
The more the hateful and small-minded people talk, the more they expose themselves. There might be a good reason that many of you exist on the fringes of society. It has nothing to do with any orientation or beliefs you hold. You're just not nice people.
A small business owner declined a job and many of you want want to harm his business and his family? That the epitome of liberal tolerance.
The more the hateful and small-minded people talk, the more they expose themselves. There might be a good reason that many of you exist on the fringes of society. It has nothing to do with any orientation or beliefs you hold. You're just not nice people.
108
I don't necessarily like the shop owner's views, but the email does not indicate that the job was refused due to sexual orientation. The flyer promotes activities that the business owner might not be comfortable with, and which are not directly related to sexual orientation. If they would refuse a similar ad for a non-gay bar, which I get the impression they would, then they're within their rights to refuse this ad.
109
They are small minded douche-bags, but they have a RIGHT to be small minded douche-bags. They shouldn't be under any obligation to print anything for anyone.
If I owned a print shop and refused to print an anti-gay flyer would the ACLU come after me? How about if I refused to print fliers for a mosque that advocated Sharia law?
If I were forced to print something that went against my morals I'd do such a crappy job of it the customer would never come back again.
Too bad there aren't hundreds of other printers in town. Oh, wait...
If I owned a print shop and refused to print an anti-gay flyer would the ACLU come after me? How about if I refused to print fliers for a mosque that advocated Sharia law?
If I were forced to print something that went against my morals I'd do such a crappy job of it the customer would never come back again.
Too bad there aren't hundreds of other printers in town. Oh, wait...
110
A law student's two cents: The ACLU's position isn't supported by the case law on this subject. The antidiscrimination law (RCW 49.60.030) applies to places of public accommodation, which, according to a Washington Supreme Court case from 1996 (Fell v. Spokane Transit Auth., 128 Wash. 2d 618, 911 P.2d 1319 (1996)) covers places and facilities, and not services, such as printing. Sorry folks, providers of services still have the freedom not to serve those whose views or lifestyle they disagree with. Continue the boycott, but don't think that you can SUE for this.
111
They shouldn't worry as much as being sued or violating the law as they should about staying in business.
I'm the owner of a local marketing agency with a high volume of print needs that I try to funnel through local businesses whenever I can (including theirs). And I'm gay. And they just lost my business forever.
By the way, you guys are going to the wrong website. They are at:
http://www.allaccessprint.com/
I'm the owner of a local marketing agency with a high volume of print needs that I try to funnel through local businesses whenever I can (including theirs). And I'm gay. And they just lost my business forever.
By the way, you guys are going to the wrong website. They are at:
http://www.allaccessprint.com/
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