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News & ArtsMonday, June 13, 2011
Politics / Sex Anthony Weiner Might As Well Resign
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 9:08 AM
Just to be clear: I'm not calling on Weiner to resign. I'm not joining the censorious, clueless, hypocritical chorus. Yes, more pictures are surfacing. Yes, innocent chats Weiner had with seventeen-year-old teenage "fans" are being held up as proof that he's a pedophile in the making. (Because we all know that straight men are incapable of distinguishing between porn stars and minors and adjusting their conversations/tweets accordingly.) No, it's the rehab thing that has me ready to the throw in the towel. As I said when the scandal first broke...
While I hope Weiner comes clean, I hope comes out swinging: He didn't do anything wrong, he didn't do anything millions of other Americans aren't also doing, he didn't break any laws. His privacy has been invaded. He's being attacked. He is the victim here. And if doing what Weiner has done disqualifies a person from public life, there won't be anyone qualified to be public life in ten years time save the Amish.
Now here's what I hope the legally married congressman doesn't do: confess to having a problem, blame "sex addiction," check into the Tiger Woods Memorial Sex/Career Rehabilitation Center, resurface a month later Dr. Drew's couch looking contrite, and apologize to the American people for being one of them.
By checking into rehab—by pretending that it's him, and not the culture, that has a problem with sex—Weiner is sharpening the blade on the guillotine to which he's been dragged.
And somehow "Vitter the Shitter" is still a senator.
(Psst... Anthony? If you're going to resign, why not kick some GOP ass on your way out the door? Do it for old time's sake: call a press conference and announce that you're prepared to resign so long as David Vitter resigns at the same time you do. That'll instantly shift the entire discussion to Vitter's behavior—he's the "family values" douche who actually broke the law along with his marital vows (and placed calls to an escort service from the floor of the House)—and it'll force the media to focus on the hypocrisy of rightwingers calling on you to resign while refusing to even discuss Vitter the Shitter.)
UPDATE: A few of the comments can be summed up like this: "But Weiner lied! He has to resign! Because he lied!"
Am I the only one who remembers this: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky."
Clinton lied to a grand jury, to his cabinet, to members of Congress, to every reporter on earth. He lied to the whole world. And we concluded—the American people, the same people who don't want Weiner to resign—that there are certain things a man has a right to lie about. When someone cruelly invades your privacy and asks you a question they have no business asking and answering honestly would inflict pain on your loved ones—greatly magnifying the pain your indiscretion would inflict by itself—and a "no comment" or an obfuscation or a non-denial denial would be taken as tantamount to an admission/confirmation, you have a right to lie.
Hell, you have a responsibility to lie—and, if you get away with it, to consider yourself fortunate and regard your near-political-death experience as a wakeup call and to knock that shit, whatever it was, the hell off. And even if you do ultimately get caught, Americans are willing to give you a pass on a lie like this. (Again, Weiner's constituents don't want him to resign, just like the American people didn't want Clinton to resign or be impeached.) Because it's the kind of lie that any person—any honest person—can picture himself/herself telling if he/she were in the same circumstances.
And does anyone believe that it wouldn't have been better for Mrs. Weiner and the little Weiner growing inside her—the same persons whose welfare the handwringers claim they're most concerned with—if Weiner had gotten away with his lie?
1
Better yet, call on Vitter to resign first (which he won't do, of course), then renege on his promise to resign.
2
In what universe do you think anyone in DC gives 1 fuck about your pointless drivel?
Grow up and get over yourself.
Grow up and get over yourself.
3
Weiner lied to the president. He should resign for that.
He should also resign for going into rehab. He's not Lindsay Lohan.
Dan, you're as much to blame for this as anyone else. You helped make it OK for us to mock hypocrites during their sex scandals.
The scolds are just playing their cards against yours.
He should also resign for going into rehab. He's not Lindsay Lohan.
Dan, you're as much to blame for this as anyone else. You helped make it OK for us to mock hypocrites during their sex scandals.
The scolds are just playing their cards against yours.
5
Weiner did do something wrong: he lied. And if he didn't want to be "attacked", meaning thrown under the bus by these very classy ladies, he should have been much more selective about who he shared intimate texts and photos with.
6
@3, 5: You're right, he lied. By your logic, all of our elected officials should immediately resign. Perhaps they should, but calling on Weiner to resign while giving every other one of the lying assholes a pass is pretty asinine.
7
Jesus, Dan, you're acting like this guy has some sort of moral high ground to stand on. He doesn't. He's a lying piece of shit.
Off with his head.
Off with his head.
8
I couldn't agree more. It's not the sexting, it's the lame retreat to rehab.
Call me a dreamer, but I still hope he won't resign. And if he does, absolutely, he damn well better bring Diaperbaby Vitter down with him.
Call me a dreamer, but I still hope he won't resign. And if he does, absolutely, he damn well better bring Diaperbaby Vitter down with him.
9
Hahahahaha. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy, because he did it to himself. I hope he stays in office and implores Nancy Pelosi to release her own penis pictures.
10
He should resign. No, not because of the cock pics. I don't care about that. He should resign because he is too stupid to be taken seriously.
Have you actually read the exchanges he had with the blackjack dealer? She was so obviously faking it and leading him on. Only a 14 year-old would believe it. He should resign in shame for being so fucking stupid and gullible. Please go back to junior high, Rep. Weiner, where you clearly belong.
Have you actually read the exchanges he had with the blackjack dealer? She was so obviously faking it and leading him on. Only a 14 year-old would believe it. He should resign in shame for being so fucking stupid and gullible. Please go back to junior high, Rep. Weiner, where you clearly belong.
11
@6 -- He lied to the president. For that, the people in the party the president leads should waste no time holding the door for him.
12
Should he resign? No.
Should the voters elect someone else next term? Probably.
That's where this falls. As for the hypocrisy of Republicans on this issue... oy vey, no argument here. Worse than the Dems, and that's a pretty high bar.
@2 you're a schmuck. They don't care about you either, yet there you are, typing away. None of us needs to be influential just to have the right to communicate and express opinions.
Should the voters elect someone else next term? Probably.
That's where this falls. As for the hypocrisy of Republicans on this issue... oy vey, no argument here. Worse than the Dems, and that's a pretty high bar.
@2 you're a schmuck. They don't care about you either, yet there you are, typing away. None of us needs to be influential just to have the right to communicate and express opinions.
16
The Rehab thing has nothing to do with Rehab. He needs a way to get out of the spot lite until the news cycle moves on. Rehab is the only way to do that "properly." I think we should help him by finding some juicy scandal committed by some republican. You know something that is actually illegal.
About the lying thing I think everyone should get a pretty big pass when lying to anyone other then their spouse or partner. If Dan or anyone else asked me about my personal sex life I think I would be justified in lying rather then punting and admitting to some truth I held private.
DAN you can ask me anything you want about my sex life and I will never lie.
About the lying thing I think everyone should get a pretty big pass when lying to anyone other then their spouse or partner. If Dan or anyone else asked me about my personal sex life I think I would be justified in lying rather then punting and admitting to some truth I held private.
DAN you can ask me anything you want about my sex life and I will never lie.
17
Lying only matters when it's part of a conversation that implies a realtionship of trust, and that certainly is not the case when it comes to the media asking questions about a politician's private life.
The problem with lying is that it undermines the practice of trust. When there is no implicit trust then there is no harm done in lying.
If someone expects people to tell the truth in every situtation then one simply doesn't understand what is at stake morally, or one has a bizarre understanding of the degree of trust implicit in casual conversation with strangers.
The problem with lying is that it undermines the practice of trust. When there is no implicit trust then there is no harm done in lying.
If someone expects people to tell the truth in every situtation then one simply doesn't understand what is at stake morally, or one has a bizarre understanding of the degree of trust implicit in casual conversation with strangers.
18
Couldn't he just say that his statements to the public and to party leaders were "not intended to be factual statements."
Isn't that supposed to be a get-out-of-getting-caught-lying-free card?
Isn't that supposed to be a get-out-of-getting-caught-lying-free card?
19
If his response from the very beginning were something of the tune to "Go fuck yourself," he wouldn't be in this shitty situation right now.
Weiner is one of the more energetic proponents of liberal/progressive values; you don't see many like him in office nowadays. It's a terrible shame how he mishandled this.
Millennia from now, anthropologists will report that the USA had a state deity, analogous to Roman Vesta, called "Family Values" to which a prominent male politician was ritually murdered every three months. "Family Values" was centered around an antiquated ritual called "marriage," rather than the reproductive contracts we have nowadays, and symbolically, through the "marriage" ritual (those of you aware of the mating rituals of Black Widow spiders will find this familiar), the "wife" castrated the "husband" and then swallowed him back up into her womb. This is how the "wife" received all her superpowers and legal privileges.
Weiner is one of the more energetic proponents of liberal/progressive values; you don't see many like him in office nowadays. It's a terrible shame how he mishandled this.
Millennia from now, anthropologists will report that the USA had a state deity, analogous to Roman Vesta, called "Family Values" to which a prominent male politician was ritually murdered every three months. "Family Values" was centered around an antiquated ritual called "marriage," rather than the reproductive contracts we have nowadays, and symbolically, through the "marriage" ritual (those of you aware of the mating rituals of Black Widow spiders will find this familiar), the "wife" castrated the "husband" and then swallowed him back up into her womb. This is how the "wife" received all her superpowers and legal privileges.
20
@6 I never said he should resign. I just take issue with the statement that he's done nothing wrong. And I find it difficult to feel sorry for him and think of him as a victim when he's brought everything on himself.
21
Why the hell should he resign? If the voters want him out, they'll make it clear. Weiner should tell anyone calling for his resignation to fuck off and get back to their own job.
Democrats are such goddamned wimps. Where have all the LBJ's gone?
Democrats are such goddamned wimps. Where have all the LBJ's gone?
22
Hear hear, Amanda. He sent unsolicited dick pics and then lied about it until absolutely cornered. If they were between him and his mistress or something, then sure, let's talk. What everyone also seems to miss is that he has/had almost zero political allies in his own party even before this whole affair began. That's the real reason he's swinging in the wind right now. It has nothing to do with 'puritanism' or family values or whatever. It's politics.
23
Yeah, society has a problem with sex, and perhaps Weiner does not (though frankly I can't make that judgment call and I don't think you have any right to either, Dan). But why is lying ok in your book? I know lying isn't a crime, but neither is hypocrisy, yet you gleefully rake every Republican over the coals for hypocrisy. Why is lying fine but hypocrisy unforgivable? I'm not saying I think Weiner should resign because he lied, but I don't think he has any moral high ground. I know many politicans lie, and often on issues that are actually important (unlike this). But that doesn't mean Weiner's lying is ok. Like a lot of people, I gave him the benefit of the doubt at first, and thought he was the victim of the Republican slime machine. That was really fucked up to be tricked like that, and I don't respect the guy as a result. He absolutely does need to examine his behavior, and I think he should get some help. However, if he is just doing rehab for appearance's sake, then that's really gross. I also think it's really gross that you won't even concede that what Weiner did - the lying, the false accusations -- was fucked up and he should be remorseful about that.
24
Weiner seems pretty lame and his initial reaction was dodgy and this rehab thing is spineless and icky. He is a victim of his own bad judgment all along the line.
But I still don't think he should resign. I think he should man up and tell everyone to mind their own affairs, And get back to governing and try to keep a low net profile from here on out.
And maybe the political parties should hold classes for all reps once a year and how to deal with sexual scandals.
But I still don't think he should resign. I think he should man up and tell everyone to mind their own affairs, And get back to governing and try to keep a low net profile from here on out.
And maybe the political parties should hold classes for all reps once a year and how to deal with sexual scandals.
25
Of course he shouldn't resign. People who think he should have sex problems that go much deeper than anything Anthony Weiner did.
This is just stupid American puritanical nonsense. I agree that he shouldn't have gone into whatever "rehab" he's in, because there's nothing to "recover" from. People lie about sex all the time. Get over it.
This is just stupid American puritanical nonsense. I agree that he shouldn't have gone into whatever "rehab" he's in, because there's nothing to "recover" from. People lie about sex all the time. Get over it.
26
Aside from the usual bias against Democrats, we're in our third week of morning shows, cable networks, nightly news giggling about Weiner's weiner because they can get the story past the censors. None of the pics so far are too explicit for network television. Everything in the transcripts is fairly vanilla, R not X rated.
Vitter the Shitter doesn't have to resign because outside of The Stranger and its ilk you will never read, let alone see, what Vitter's fetish was. The least censored mainstream media(Bill Maher on HBO for example) will mention Vitter's diapers, but not what was in them and what he did with his shit. Most regular news viewers and Vitter's constituents think he just went to a prostitute for "regular" sex. If you had a Grandma in Louisiana would you explain it to her? I didn't think so.
Vitter the Shitter doesn't have to resign because outside of The Stranger and its ilk you will never read, let alone see, what Vitter's fetish was. The least censored mainstream media(Bill Maher on HBO for example) will mention Vitter's diapers, but not what was in them and what he did with his shit. Most regular news viewers and Vitter's constituents think he just went to a prostitute for "regular" sex. If you had a Grandma in Louisiana would you explain it to her? I didn't think so.
27
I thought that we let Clinton get away with lying because evidence against him was gathered by questionably legal means, what he lied about was no big deal anyway, and the Republicans running the witch hunt were just generally being assholes.
28
Here's the difference between Weiner's lies and the hypocrisy of politicians Dan has attacked: Weiner didn't hurt the public by lying. Conservative hypocrisy harms the public because the politicians doing it are promoting government policies that damage our freedoms, and/or they're contributing to a culture of sexual oppression.
Both liars and hypocrites are dishonest to shield their own sorry asses from media fire, but at least liars like Weiner and Clinton don't try to throw the fire back at the rest of us.
Both liars and hypocrites are dishonest to shield their own sorry asses from media fire, but at least liars like Weiner and Clinton don't try to throw the fire back at the rest of us.
29
Gah. At this point it seems to me Weiner has handled this so badly I'm not going to be too sorry about whatever does happen. No, I didn't think he should resign -- leave all that to his constituents -- but I do also think he should have exercised a bit more discretion, the more I hear about what seems to have been way more than one accidentally tweeted picture.
But then again, when he gave that terribly evasive original answer about whether or not that was his crotch shot, he really signalled exactly how he was going to handle this whole thing.
I *do* think Vitter should absolutely go as well, but unfortunately there's no calls for *his* head going on in the media right now.
Meh. Double meh.
But then again, when he gave that terribly evasive original answer about whether or not that was his crotch shot, he really signalled exactly how he was going to handle this whole thing.
I *do* think Vitter should absolutely go as well, but unfortunately there's no calls for *his* head going on in the media right now.
Meh. Double meh.
30
@28 - We have our reasons, they have theirs. We get all up in arms about their public statements versus their private lives.
They get upset because they expect public figures to represent the best of the American character.
"How can I teach my children to keep their dicks off the Internet when Weiner does it and doesn't get in trouble?"
They get upset because they expect public figures to represent the best of the American character.
"How can I teach my children to keep their dicks off the Internet when Weiner does it and doesn't get in trouble?"
32
"Have you actually read the exchanges he had with the blackjack dealer? She was so obviously faking it and leading him on."
I watched them read aloud by Bill Maher and Jane Lynch. While I'm aware that most sexy talk sounds stupid out of context, this was a pretty crappy-sounding script that could have come from a jaded phone sex operator or a female cop working vice, or a computerized sexbot that needs it's patter upgraded when the new model comes out.
I watched them read aloud by Bill Maher and Jane Lynch. While I'm aware that most sexy talk sounds stupid out of context, this was a pretty crappy-sounding script that could have come from a jaded phone sex operator or a female cop working vice, or a computerized sexbot that needs it's patter upgraded when the new model comes out.
33
Sad that so many of my fellow lefties and liberals are busy making excuses for Weiner and talking about Vitter (a pathetic back-bencher who has no cred in DC) when, of course, if this were about another right-wing shit bag they'd be screaming for blood. The Weiner defenders have created a cult of personality about the guy not at all different from that which the Tighty-Righties created for the likes of Sarah Palin. Weiner's career is not as important as the causes to which he is supposedly dedicated. He has become a joke and has lost credibility with other members of Congress. His "fans" seem mostly to be those who get all their political information from yapp talk shows on TV, where he has made miself a regular. Yes, he might as well resign because he's become a JOKE...it's too bad, but it's true.
34
He lied. Yes. He's an idiot. Agreed. So what? The idea he must resign his position in the House of Representatives as a consequence of this prevarication is absurd. Too many posters, here and elsewhere, seem to view lying as a one-size-fits-all wrong when it comes to punishment. Every lie is not the same. This misconduct is between his spouse, his tweets and ultimately the voters of New York's 9th District.
Murder isn't created equally. Yet somehow we've managed to accept this obvious fact, classifying homicide as 'Murder One,' 'Murder Two,' etc. We've grown to accept nuanced jurisprudence when it comes to addressing the taking of a life.
Aren't we bright enough to do the same with respect to deceit?
Murder isn't created equally. Yet somehow we've managed to accept this obvious fact, classifying homicide as 'Murder One,' 'Murder Two,' etc. We've grown to accept nuanced jurisprudence when it comes to addressing the taking of a life.
Aren't we bright enough to do the same with respect to deceit?
35
An elected official, public employees, and college professors have no or limited rights to privacy. All forms of communication are subject to Freedom of Information requests and subpoena by Congress and/or the courts
36
The lying, the claims of being the innocent victim, not to mention the stupidity and recklessness of his behavior. No, I don't think it's the worst thing in the world and personally I don't think he should resign over it. But it's really not acceptable behavior, either. Can't liberals say he fucked up and should make amends? Can't liberals say that while it's perfectly ok for our elected officials to have kinky private sex lives, it's not ok for them to be liars and idiots? I'm pretty incredulous at the people defending this guy as if all he did was get caught jaywalking or something.
37
@1 ftw.
@35 Americans have no actual enumerated right to privacy, except in certain States like Washington. If you want a legal right to Privacy, move to the EU or Canada.
@35 Americans have no actual enumerated right to privacy, except in certain States like Washington. If you want a legal right to Privacy, move to the EU or Canada.
38
Amen Dan! You wrote exactly what I've been thinking all weekend. I wish wiener wasn't such a wiener, and he just stood up for himself. Christ.
40
@36 -- He's a creep. He's a putz. He's a moron, a loudmouth, a prick and a puss.
The qualities do not disqualify him in the House.
When the President asked him if he did these things, he denied them. He lied to the President. He got caught.
He does not respect the office he holds or the offices he works with.
He should resign.
The qualities do not disqualify him in the House.
When the President asked him if he did these things, he denied them. He lied to the President. He got caught.
He does not respect the office he holds or the offices he works with.
He should resign.
41
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for saying this. It doesn't even matter how we treated Clinton or Clinton treated us. Americans--even on the "Progressive Left" (a joke for sure) --are really showing their maturity on this one.
About the lying thing: So if Weiner lied about his personal consensual virtual sex life, that's a "resignable" offense but if he lied about, say, healthcare reform, the Palestinian occupation, Mavi Marmara or Amnesty International, etc. [there's many instances of his AIPAC/ corporate flackery] it doesn't matter at all?
About the lying thing: So if Weiner lied about his personal consensual virtual sex life, that's a "resignable" offense but if he lied about, say, healthcare reform, the Palestinian occupation, Mavi Marmara or Amnesty International, etc. [there's many instances of his AIPAC/ corporate flackery] it doesn't matter at all?
42
Of course he lied! Who wouldn't? Last time I looked...lying wasn't illegal. Not as long as you're not under oath.
I long for the day that "it's none of your business" is the knee jerk reaction instead of "I didn't do it!" It's easier to recover from and, most of the time, it's more appropriate.
I long for the day that "it's none of your business" is the knee jerk reaction instead of "I didn't do it!" It's easier to recover from and, most of the time, it's more appropriate.
43
Dan, could you stop calling Huma Abedin "Mrs. Weiner"? She didn't change her name. There is no "Mrs. Weiner" involved in this unless it's the guy's mother.
44
@39: How does it feel being incapable of spelling "ibuprofen"? I bet you can't find your butt with both hands.
45
@30 - I can count myself as one American that doesn't give a fuck about ineffectual, worrywort slapdick parents and their damn kids.
The "how am I supposed to teach my children" argument is a callback to this gem:
"HOW AM I GOING TO EXPLAIN THIS TO MY KIDS?!" Being a parent sucks, doesn't it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPvVnrV1t…
The "how am I supposed to teach my children" argument is a callback to this gem:
"HOW AM I GOING TO EXPLAIN THIS TO MY KIDS?!" Being a parent sucks, doesn't it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPvVnrV1t…
46
And does anyone believe that it wouldn't have been better for Mrs. Weiner and the little Weiner growing inside her—the same persons whose welfare the handwringers claim they're most concerned with—if Weiner had gotten away with his lie?
Only if he made an honest effort thereafter TO STOP. If not, discovery is simply inevitable.
47
All good - except Vitter the Shitter easily won re-election after his scandal, and Republicans will use that as defense of him still sitting in the Senate. If Weiner had a similar election backing him, I think all the calls for his resignation would evaporate.
48
I want him to quit. This country has cultivated an entrenched political class. More and more this class is divided up into two overlapping categories: smart sociopaths or stupid narcissistic douche bags. And once your in the club and are accepted by your particular tribe you have an easy ticket to a seven figure income and a life of almost zero accountability.
So. Fuck Weiner. I don't care if he's in my tribe. He's stupid as shit and I'm sick of stupid people getting to run things and getting to be part of the Nobility just because they pander to my political kinks.
It's not his morality that's the issue. It's not that he lied. I couldn't give a shit. It's that he's too stupid to understand how the most rudimentary technology works, too stupid to employ a simple stratagem to deflect his mistake, and too stupid to just say 'fuck all ya all' and ride it out. How's this stupid fuck going to resolve a single one of our serious problems if he can't figure out how to talk dirty to a college chick and then can't figure out what to do once he get's busted?
So. Fuck Weiner. I don't care if he's in my tribe. He's stupid as shit and I'm sick of stupid people getting to run things and getting to be part of the Nobility just because they pander to my political kinks.
It's not his morality that's the issue. It's not that he lied. I couldn't give a shit. It's that he's too stupid to understand how the most rudimentary technology works, too stupid to employ a simple stratagem to deflect his mistake, and too stupid to just say 'fuck all ya all' and ride it out. How's this stupid fuck going to resolve a single one of our serious problems if he can't figure out how to talk dirty to a college chick and then can't figure out what to do once he get's busted?
52
I agree that the calls to resign are overblown and exhibit a massive double standard, but I disagree that his privacy has been invaded. He tweeted a picture of erection -- a mistake, surely, but a really stupid one -- and made it public. He also sent nude pictures of himself to strangers on the internet. If you're a public figure doing this, I don't think you have any expectation of privacy.
And he's hardly done much to generate goodwill -- he got his first elected position through race-baiting, has a reputation as a pretty relentless bully, and has used homophobic slurs against members of his staff. This feels like karma ...
And he's hardly done much to generate goodwill -- he got his first elected position through race-baiting, has a reputation as a pretty relentless bully, and has used homophobic slurs against members of his staff. This feels like karma ...
53
I agree that the calls to resign are overblown and exhibit a massive double standard, but I disagree that his privacy has been invaded. He tweeted a picture of his erection -- a mistake, surely, but a really stupid one -- and made it public. He also sent nude pictures of himself to strangers on the internet. If you're a public figure doing this, I don't think you have any expectation of privacy -- at least where the pictures in question are concerned.
And he's hardly done much to generate goodwill -- he got his first elected position through race-baiting, has a reputation as a pretty relentless bully, and has used homophobic slurs against members of his staff.
And here's the problem with his lie, that makes it different than Clinton's lie: he tried to push the blame onto Breitbart and a "vast right wing conspiracy". This has given Breitbart a great chance to play the victim. Now the legitimate criticism of Breitbart will be drowned out by his smugly righteous self-pity. Thanks for that, Weiner.
And he's hardly done much to generate goodwill -- he got his first elected position through race-baiting, has a reputation as a pretty relentless bully, and has used homophobic slurs against members of his staff.
And here's the problem with his lie, that makes it different than Clinton's lie: he tried to push the blame onto Breitbart and a "vast right wing conspiracy". This has given Breitbart a great chance to play the victim. Now the legitimate criticism of Breitbart will be drowned out by his smugly righteous self-pity. Thanks for that, Weiner.
55
"And we concluded—the American people, the same people who don't want Weiner to resign—that there are certain things a man has a right to lie about. When someone cruelly invades your privacy and asks you a question they have no business asking and answering honestly would inflict pain on your loved ones—greatly magnifying the pain your indiscretion would inflict by itself—and a "no comment" or an obfuscation or a non-denial denial would be taken as tantamount to an admission/confirmation, you have a right to lie."
Funny. It never works that way in the depositions or trials I attend.
Funny. It never works that way in the depositions or trials I attend.
56
@55, he wasn't on trial, though. Politicians lie to the media all the time. They lie during the primaries to pander to their base. Then they lie during the general election to appear "moderate." If politicians lost their jobs every time they lied, we wouldn't have anyone running the country.
57
56: Clinton lied under oath. People claimed, it was just sex. Nope. Lying under oath is a biggie. Sex was the way he dodged the obvious. And people like you fell for it. You also let him essentially call Lewinsky a lying stalker, until the DNA came back. Scary shit, that is, if the person doing it must be trusted to exercise judgment and concern for others' welfare over his own, which is what we need of presidents.
Weiner's response to people finding out about his activity? Similar to Clinton. He blamed nebulous hackers and such.
You cannot trust people like that to exercise their judgment for the benefit of others over themselves. They gotta go. Not because of the sex, but because of the attempt to so scandalously lie to the very people they are obligated to not lie to, all in order to avoid simply saying, "Yeah. I did that. I am done talking about it."
Weiner's response to people finding out about his activity? Similar to Clinton. He blamed nebulous hackers and such.
You cannot trust people like that to exercise their judgment for the benefit of others over themselves. They gotta go. Not because of the sex, but because of the attempt to so scandalously lie to the very people they are obligated to not lie to, all in order to avoid simply saying, "Yeah. I did that. I am done talking about it."
58
Gee Dan - you are always concentrating on such small potatoes;
If Tony really wants to go down swinging, why not choose someone (equally irrelevant to his present dilemma) who plays for the Team which has the power to force him from access to the Congressional gym? Why not refuse to resign until Barney Frank resigns?
If Tony really wants to go down swinging, why not choose someone (equally irrelevant to his present dilemma) who plays for the Team which has the power to force him from access to the Congressional gym? Why not refuse to resign until Barney Frank resigns?
59
Gee Dan - you are always concentrating on such small potatoes;
If Tony really wants to go down swinging, why not choose someone (equally irrelevant to his present dilemma) who plays for the Team which has the power to force him from access to the Congressional gym?
Why not refuse to resign until Barney Frank resigns?
If Tony really wants to go down swinging, why not choose someone (equally irrelevant to his present dilemma) who plays for the Team which has the power to force him from access to the Congressional gym?
Why not refuse to resign until Barney Frank resigns?
61
and what about Gingrich? why wasn't he pressed to resign? and he can run for President after his reprehensible behavior?
62
What about the fact that at least one of women claims that she said nothing flirtatious to Weiner and she was stunned by the crotch shot he sent? That doesn't seem a little... predatory?
63
The man sent unsolicited pictures of his genitalia to women. That seems to be a) sexual harassment and b) a violation of his marriage vows - which I at least think are rather important promises. Then he lied like a rug about it. He shouldn't resign. The House should rise up and toss his ass out (which it can do).
And if you think that means that a lot of other Congresscritters should by that standard also be thrown out, I'm fine with that, too. Promises mean something. If promises to your wife mean nothing, promises to me probably don't either. The problem isn't our cultural attitudes towards sex. The problem is this guy's behavior that makes him think he should do whatever he wants AND get away with it.
Clinton? He had sex with someone he had a position of authority over. I don't care if she wanted it or not. As far as I'm concerned it was rape, and he should have gone down over it.
And if you think that means that a lot of other Congresscritters should by that standard also be thrown out, I'm fine with that, too. Promises mean something. If promises to your wife mean nothing, promises to me probably don't either. The problem isn't our cultural attitudes towards sex. The problem is this guy's behavior that makes him think he should do whatever he wants AND get away with it.
Clinton? He had sex with someone he had a position of authority over. I don't care if she wanted it or not. As far as I'm concerned it was rape, and he should have gone down over it.
65
Of course he shouldnt resign. Everyone loves to throw stones. Look at yourselves. Everyone makes mistakes. This was a dumb one, but he is not dumb- just horny and an old guy with a computer is dangerous. He is one of the few strong leaders we have. He puts himself out there and makes unpopular statements. He's got balls and not enough politicians have them.
He did not break any laws. And if one more person says that he took a photo while at the congressional gym- i'll puke. Tired of hearing all these hypocritical petty bitches. STFU Already.
He did not break any laws. And if one more person says that he took a photo while at the congressional gym- i'll puke. Tired of hearing all these hypocritical petty bitches. STFU Already.
66
Total invasion of privacy. This is the best piece I've seen on the matter:
http://www.alternet.org/sex/151223/the_w…
http://www.alternet.org/sex/151223/the_w…
67
Total invasion of privacy. This is the best piece I've seen on the matter:
http://www.alternet.org/sex/151223/the_w…
http://www.alternet.org/sex/151223/the_w…
68
No one cruelly invaded Weiner's privacy. Why would a Congressman expect that cock pics sent from his account to members of the public would remain private? Of course that's going to get out. It's just as stupid as finding a hookup on craigslist using a face pic. Maybe worse in Weiner's case because he didn't reign himself in after that scandal.
Weiner's behavior is objectionable because it was just SO stupid - if you're going to indulge your fantasies online, do it anonymously if you don't want to be found out. Don't send pics from your account and don't include your face. I'm sure that's what the rest of his colleagues have been doing. I don't expect our representatives to be rocket scientists, but would sure hope they're smarter than this.
Weiner's behavior is objectionable because it was just SO stupid - if you're going to indulge your fantasies online, do it anonymously if you don't want to be found out. Don't send pics from your account and don't include your face. I'm sure that's what the rest of his colleagues have been doing. I don't expect our representatives to be rocket scientists, but would sure hope they're smarter than this.
69
Good post, Dan. And thanks for "It Get's Better", it's awesome what you two have done for so many people.
71
He should not resign. He did nothing for which he should resign.
I do hope he has learned a lesson, though. If you are going to be a public figure, a political firebrand AND engage in computer/phone sexual interaction, find a way to be freaking anonymous about it. It pisses me off to see that scumbucket Breitbart cackling away and releasing photo after photo and simpering "I'm the good guy here."
I do hope he has learned a lesson, though. If you are going to be a public figure, a political firebrand AND engage in computer/phone sexual interaction, find a way to be freaking anonymous about it. It pisses me off to see that scumbucket Breitbart cackling away and releasing photo after photo and simpering "I'm the good guy here."
72
Thank you, Dan, for your observations about lying in such situations. You are right. The behavior, stupidity, and embarrassment are possible reasons for not re-electing him but the lying was totally natural.
75
if lying is an offense punishable by forced resignation, then i expect to see/hear the resignations of every member of congress, senator, state governor, federal judge, and probably most upper-level federal and state employees across the board. the unifying trait among ALL these people is their propensity to lie and lie and lie.
76
I absolutely agree. It's not being pointed out enough that his privacy has been invaded, unfairly. His sexts or whatever are none of our damn business.
Andrew Breitbart needs to go down, hard. But how? He deserves no credibility but this incident seems to boost this smear artist a great deal
Andrew Breitbart needs to go down, hard. But how? He deserves no credibility but this incident seems to boost this smear artist a great deal
77
While people may be glad that Anthony Weiner is stepping down, if he is doing so amid pressure from his congressional colleagues, despite a vocal contingent of his constituents wanting otherwise, what does it say about us that we ALLOW the collective will of politicians, whom Weiner does NOT represent to supersede the will of those who elected him to represent them?
If he did not break any laws, if he did not misuse public funds, if he did not use public resources, if these were conversations that took place between consenting adults, then there were no laws broken. I am not defending what he did - its not my place to condemn or defend - nor is it anyone else's. We don't get to have a say what goes on between consenting, sound-minded adults. And while I completely agree that he should have either fessed up about it to begin with OR not said a word about it at all, he faced no ethics violations charges, there was no congressional censure, there was no evidence of legal wrongdoing. There was no due process of any kind, the only people who had a right to call for his resignation are the people who elected him to office. If a majority of them felt that he could still represent him, their voices should count more than the voices of other politicians. If they don't, then there what meaning does "of the people, for the people and by the people" really have?
If he did not break any laws, if he did not misuse public funds, if he did not use public resources, if these were conversations that took place between consenting adults, then there were no laws broken. I am not defending what he did - its not my place to condemn or defend - nor is it anyone else's. We don't get to have a say what goes on between consenting, sound-minded adults. And while I completely agree that he should have either fessed up about it to begin with OR not said a word about it at all, he faced no ethics violations charges, there was no congressional censure, there was no evidence of legal wrongdoing. There was no due process of any kind, the only people who had a right to call for his resignation are the people who elected him to office. If a majority of them felt that he could still represent him, their voices should count more than the voices of other politicians. If they don't, then there what meaning does "of the people, for the people and by the people" really have?
78
Lying is immoral, but not unethical depending on the situation. Weiner should not have resigned, however, I don't agree with you, bottom line.
79
Dan, please respond to those who are pointing out that his pics were unsolicited. Does that still mean that he "did nothing wrong?" Since a vast number of people look to you for moral guidance, can you explain the rules surrounding sending out crotch shots via twitter or email? If the explicit pics were not expected or requested, why isn't he basically a flasher?
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