Slog
News & ArtsTuesday, June 7, 2011
City / Media At the Kalebu Trial, an Attack Too Brutal for Most Local Reporters to Fully Describe
Posted by Eli Sanders on Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 2:12 PM
Something is happening at the trial of Isaiah Kalebu, something you won't read about it in the local mainstream media. The reality of a "great and ordinary day," as King County Deputy Prosecutor Brian McDonald put it, is being described. So is the reality of a terrifying night that followed.
On that warm night, in July of 2009, Isaiah Kalebu allegedly climbed through an open window in the South Park home of Teresa Butz; raped Butz and her partner repeatedly at knife-point; stabbed Butz in the heart, killing her; and then fled.
The details of the attack, as recounted by prosecutors and witnesses at the trial, are too explicit for most news outlets to print, too vivid and horrible for most people to imagine. Yet Butz's family and friends have been present at every moment of the proceedings so far, listening intently. I don't presume to know what they are thinking or feeling. But it's clear they're not shying away from the details of what happened that night.
Neither are the jurors, who were warned during the selection process that some of the material at this trial would be hard to stomach.
In some ways, the ability of everyone in the courtroom to remain present and watchful during all of this speaks to the need for full accountings—for people who are willing to look squarely, without any pre-sanitizing, at what humans sometimes do to each other, and for other people who are willing to hear the full, awful, occasionally ambiguous truth.
Not everyone needs to do this kind of looking and listening.
But for those who want to do it by proxy, here is what I've heard at the trial so far. (It comes almost exclusively from statements and allegations made by prosecutors and witnesses. Kalebu's defense attorneys put off their opening statement until after the prosecution rests, and they've been mostly silent, declining to even question a number of the prosecution's witnesses.)
_________
July 18, 2009 was a Saturday. Teresa Butz and her partner—who has asked not to be named—spent that Saturday doing things they loved. They went on a tour of microbreweries in the South Park area, they went to see about getting Butz's partner fitted for a wedding dress (the two were planning a commitment ceremony), they considered going to a friend's party up in Marysville.
In that way that Saturday plans sometimes change mid-course, they eventually decided not to go to Marysville. Instead, they headed home to cook steaks.
They ate the steaks together. They watched a movie together. They fell asleep together.
The "next memory" of Butz's partner, according to Deputy King County Prosecutor Brian McDonald, "is that she awoke and that the defendant was in their bedroom."
He was naked. He was holding a knife. He told them: "Shut up, I won’t hurt you, I just want pussy."
Kalebu, according to McDonald, demanded the two women undress.
Butz told him she was on her period.
Kalebu said it didn't matter.
Kalebu then, according to McDonald, "raped them every way imaginable. Vaginally, anally, orally. He wasn’t wearing a condom, and he ejaculated several times.”
He was calm and deliberate. He talked throughout. And, McDonald said, "Throughout all this time, he held on to this large knife, and never did he let go.”
The women thought they would both get out alive if they did what he wanted. That's what he told them would happen. They prayed, silently and out loud, that this would be the case. They tried to comfort each other. As Butz's partner was being raped next to her, Butz turned and told her: "I'm so sorry."
Kalebu, McDonald said, told the women something like: "Chill out. It's just round one."
He then forced Butz to perform oral sex on him. He ordered her: "Swallow."
According to McDonald, Kalebu at one point wiped his penis on a pair of one of the women's shorts, leaving one bit of what prosecutors say was a large amount of DNA evidence.
The attack went on for some time, McDonald told the court, and Butz's partner "began to wonder if he was ever going to leave, so she made up a lie to see if she could put an end to this.”
She told Kalebu they had a friend coming over at 5 a.m. to take them to a wedding.
"Don't worry," Kalebu replied.
He planned to leave before then, and he appeared to know he'd be the subject of a manhunt as soon as he did.
“I know you’re going to call the police," he said, according to McDonald. "They all do. But I’ll be long gone.”
They offered him their purses, left earlier on a table in the kitchen. That wasn't what he'd come for. He took them into another bedroom in the house, where he'd apparently undressed and left his jeans. There, he reached into his jeans and pulled out another knife. Then he took them back into their bedroom.
“With a knife in each hand, he started to slash at their throats," McDonald said.
The women began to fight back.
Kalebu punched Butz, McDonald said (an autopsy later showed her three bottom teeth broken and pushed back). He stabbed Butz in the left arm. He slashed her neck seven times, one of the slashes five and a half inches long. He slashed her partner's neck. He stabbed Butz in the heart.
At one point, Butz tried to hold Kalebu off with a small metal table, then threw the table through the bedroom window, jumped out, and ran, naked and screaming, into the street where she later died. Kalebu, seeing this, began to flee, and Butz's partner followed him out of the bedroom, then turned and frantically tried to let herself out the front door.
It took some time. She was so covered in blood ("It looked like somebody had dumped a bucked of blood all over her body," Seattle Police Officer Thomas Berg testified today) that it was hard for her to turn the door handle.
Kalebu, McDonald said, "left the way he came—through an open window in the back of the house, in the bathroom.”
5
I clicked on "Continue reading >>" because I was curious.
Is the thesis here that there's some reason, other than morbid curiosity, to read/publish this stuff? Because I can't really think of one that rings true. Not to say you shouldn't have published it or that I shouldn't have read it. Free country and all that. I'm just not sure that, "looking squarely at what humans sometimes do to each other," is anything other than a euphemism for for voyeurism.
Somehow the magnitude of the horror in this account makes me feel guilty for not admitting why I read it, and makes me resent you trying to pretty up the reasons you published it.
Is the thesis here that there's some reason, other than morbid curiosity, to read/publish this stuff? Because I can't really think of one that rings true. Not to say you shouldn't have published it or that I shouldn't have read it. Free country and all that. I'm just not sure that, "looking squarely at what humans sometimes do to each other," is anything other than a euphemism for for voyeurism.
Somehow the magnitude of the horror in this account makes me feel guilty for not admitting why I read it, and makes me resent you trying to pretty up the reasons you published it.
6
It's just true crime writing as far as I can tell. Nothing courageous about it. Stuff like this get published all the time.
7
@5, there may be an element of voyeurism behind why some people read after the jump. I also think there's something valid in acknowledging (without sanitizing it) what is being told in the courtroom. But I think that the details after the jump help to explain the context of this paragraph:
"In some ways, the ability of everyone in the courtroom to remain present and watchful during all of this speaks to the need for full accountings—for people who are willing to look squarely, without any pre-sanitizing, at what humans sometimes do to each other, and for other people who are willing to hear the full, awful, occasionally ambiguous truth."
"In some ways, the ability of everyone in the courtroom to remain present and watchful during all of this speaks to the need for full accountings—for people who are willing to look squarely, without any pre-sanitizing, at what humans sometimes do to each other, and for other people who are willing to hear the full, awful, occasionally ambiguous truth."
8
@5 - I took a different tack, and chose not to click through for the details. I get literally sick every time I am reminded of this particular incident - queasy and light-headed - and I've decided to actively avoid the details. I should be more "steeled" to the atrocities of humans the older I get, but the opposite seems to be true. I am grateful that Eli and others have taken on this task for me.
9
So heartbreaking that these women's last hours together were filled with such horror. Aside from all the other awfulness, no one should have to say goodbye to their partner like that.
10
Now I wish I hadn't read this--much worse than what I'd imagined. I'm not the "fry that bastard" type, but I am currently willing to impersonate one.
Having said that, thanks for reporting with clarity, Eli. The truth hurts, and sometimes it should.
Having said that, thanks for reporting with clarity, Eli. The truth hurts, and sometimes it should.
11
He must be a monster, right?
What else could you call some one who does that for fun?
or maybe he wanted to be caught. Though I'm not sure that makes him an less monstrous.
either way he is a menace and a misery and should be put away for everyone's good.
What else could you call some one who does that for fun?
or maybe he wanted to be caught. Though I'm not sure that makes him an less monstrous.
either way he is a menace and a misery and should be put away for everyone's good.
12
I was on that beer tour that day. I can't help but think that if we had tried a little harder for them to stay with us, rather than pulling the Hale's bus up to their house, things might have been different. I hope that he never sees the freedom again, and the rest of his life is spent in pain.
13
Everyone should know what this man did. His blood will be on all our hands when we execute him.
I am glad some people feel comfort and security in ignorance. Ignorance may let you sleep at night, but it doesn't absolve you from responsibility.
When we kill him -- I hope we kill him -- we might as well all pull the trigger.
I am glad some people feel comfort and security in ignorance. Ignorance may let you sleep at night, but it doesn't absolve you from responsibility.
When we kill him -- I hope we kill him -- we might as well all pull the trigger.
14
six shooter, the death penalty is off the table.
and while i understand the sentiment, your bloodlust is disturbing. how will killing this man solve any problems?
and while i understand the sentiment, your bloodlust is disturbing. how will killing this man solve any problems?
15
@13: i would pull the trigger with you.
i would not feel that blood is on my hands if i put down an rabid dog. and kalebu is not much different than that. he is unbalanced and violent, and he cannot control his mind. as there is no point in punishing a rabid dog, executing him is more merciful than 60 years of life in prison.
i would not feel that blood is on my hands if i put down an rabid dog. and kalebu is not much different than that. he is unbalanced and violent, and he cannot control his mind. as there is no point in punishing a rabid dog, executing him is more merciful than 60 years of life in prison.
17
and the instant he's dead, poof!, there goes any chance we have of studying this guy and figuring out what made him do what he did, so we can identify people like him before they commit horrible acts.
an eye for an eye leaves us... what, again?
an eye for an eye leaves us... what, again?
18
#17, studying this guy? Is that what happens to people in prison for life? Where's all this amazing data about what makes people commit horrible crimes. Oh, that's right you just made some stupid shit up.....
19
He's a sub-animal that wouldn't/shouldn't be on the street anyway if not for Seattle's limp-wristed justice system. I would kill him before I killed a rodent.
20
#18, I don't understand your hostility or aggression. I'm sorry that a different point of view is so upsetting to you, but you'll have to accept it and start coping.
I oppose the death penalty. That does not mean I oppose justice. I just don't see taking another life as justice.
Prisoners are studied, Hosono, whether you choose to believe it or not.
I oppose the death penalty. That does not mean I oppose justice. I just don't see taking another life as justice.
Prisoners are studied, Hosono, whether you choose to believe it or not.
21
He is being studied. He's a fucking sociopath. That's the cause. I am not a death penalty supporter, but I do think that this person is beyond repair and is exactly the sort that the death penalty is intended for.
22
We know they were brutally raped and about the throat slashing. And sadly we know crimes like this go on every day all over the world. No idea why the Stranger feels the need to spell it out so gruesomely.
If a mainstream newspaper published this level of detail it would be excoriated -- including by some of the people posting right here -- for sensationalism, for trying to sell papers, etc.
I see nothing noble here.
If a mainstream newspaper published this level of detail it would be excoriated -- including by some of the people posting right here -- for sensationalism, for trying to sell papers, etc.
I see nothing noble here.
24
@20, I don't support the death penalty either, but I'm very curious as to your claim of prisoners convicted of violent crime being studied, please point me to some research about this...
25
" No idea why the Stranger feels the need to spell it out so gruesomely."
Because Kalebu made the mistake of killing The Stranger's demographic. White, liberal, educate and gay. He should have stuck to killing his fellow blacks, Slog would have never cared.
Because Kalebu made the mistake of killing The Stranger's demographic. White, liberal, educate and gay. He should have stuck to killing his fellow blacks, Slog would have never cared.
26
@24 He gets evaluated by psych experts and mental health professionals while in prison. Not just once to determine competency, but frequently while he is there.
27
I used to support the death penalty, but now I'm not so sure. If a guy like Kalebu or even fucking Gary Ridgeway can get out of it, then what's the point?
Kalebu will go to Walla Walla for the next few decades and most of us will forget he ever existed.
Kalebu will go to Walla Walla for the next few decades and most of us will forget he ever existed.
28
@26,
Since when? I'm aware of studies of prisoners, but do you have specific proof that all violent prisoners are studied to any degree? It seems like the majority of them are tossed in prison and forgotten.
And even prisoners have rights. They have to consent to be part of scientific or medical studies.
Since when? I'm aware of studies of prisoners, but do you have specific proof that all violent prisoners are studied to any degree? It seems like the majority of them are tossed in prison and forgotten.
And even prisoners have rights. They have to consent to be part of scientific or medical studies.
29
As someone wishing I hadn't clicked "continue reading", I hope that you publish the man's defense with as much detail. The details I wish I hadn't read were horrifying and painful and my heart goes out to the woman's family and partner, especially her partner. If you've justified publishing these details because there is a need to hear what people can do to each other, and the "full, awful, occasionally ambigous truth", I do feel that the man's defense also needs to be heard in the same way. I don't want to jump on board the "kill him now" bandwagon until you've reported on the defense, although, unlike almost every one of my family and friends, I do believe in the death penalty, and would like to know why it's "off the table" @ 14.
30
@25 - Spending the limited time and resources of a weekly rag like The Stranger on an incident that resonates with its readers just makes sense, but doesn't mean they don't "care" about other demographics or the impact of crime on non-SLOG readers. If this exact incident occurred in Dallas or Memphis or Miami, I doubt Eli would be following it this closely.
And my personal feelings on the death penalty have shifted a bit since I stood outside in the dark protesting the exectution of Gary Gilmore at Point of the Mountain. For a very very few, I now think we just need to push the "reset" button and release that dark soul back to God. Not as retribution or as a deterrent, but to remove the physical container of a bit of evil so it doesn't bump up against those souls that remain behind in physical form.
And my personal feelings on the death penalty have shifted a bit since I stood outside in the dark protesting the exectution of Gary Gilmore at Point of the Mountain. For a very very few, I now think we just need to push the "reset" button and release that dark soul back to God. Not as retribution or as a deterrent, but to remove the physical container of a bit of evil so it doesn't bump up against those souls that remain behind in physical form.
31
Kalebu has a long history of mental illness. We don't execute the mentally ill in this country (except maybe in Florida and Texas).
We also don't allow people in custody or prisoners to participate as experimental subjects.
We also don't allow people in custody or prisoners to participate as experimental subjects.
32
I am so angry these women didn't fight back earlier. And you have the perfect opportunity when forced to perform oral sex (chomp!). I know they did what they thought was best. I have just read far too many stories where the man said "Let me do such-and-such and I won't kill you" and then goes ahead and kills the woman anyway. For years I've read these stories. Remember the man who killed the lesbian grandmothers in Oregon? Kidnapped one and told her to call her partner to come meet her. She called, the woman came, he killed them both.
I guess I also don't see, in this case, if he's busy attacking one woman, what does the other do? Did he say "If you move, I'll stab her" or "I'll stab you"? I don't care what the threat is. I decided long ago I was going to fight back in a situation where I am threatened.
I was mugged once and hesitated a second too long to prevent it, and I swore that wouldn't happen again. And because you don't know how you might react, you rehearse what you'd do over and over in yr head. I understand there is a risk. The last time I was mugged I bolted as soon as possible. And these guys had a gun and car. I could've been shot. But that was a risk I was going to take.
You have to take a chance, esp when your personal well being is at stake.
Please, don't trust anyone who says "If you do what I say, I'll let you go." Would you trust someone who said "Let me commit a lesser crime, and then I won't commit a greater one"?
I guess I also don't see, in this case, if he's busy attacking one woman, what does the other do? Did he say "If you move, I'll stab her" or "I'll stab you"? I don't care what the threat is. I decided long ago I was going to fight back in a situation where I am threatened.
I was mugged once and hesitated a second too long to prevent it, and I swore that wouldn't happen again. And because you don't know how you might react, you rehearse what you'd do over and over in yr head. I understand there is a risk. The last time I was mugged I bolted as soon as possible. And these guys had a gun and car. I could've been shot. But that was a risk I was going to take.
You have to take a chance, esp when your personal well being is at stake.
Please, don't trust anyone who says "If you do what I say, I'll let you go." Would you trust someone who said "Let me commit a lesser crime, and then I won't commit a greater one"?
33
1. Certainty he will never hurt anyone again.
2. The costs of housing him and treating him until he dies of natural causes.
3. The guilt of locking a human in a cage for decades.
4. A clear signal of our priorities as a society.
an eye for an eye leaves us... what, again?
1. Certainty he will never hurt anyone again.
2. The costs of housing him and treating him until he dies of natural causes.
3. The guilt of locking a human in a cage for decades.
4. A clear signal of our priorities as a society.
34
@31 Thanks, I don't know anything about this case, and I don't think we should execute the mentally ill or mentally deficient. My own views on the death penalty were shaped in large part by my pre-teen memories of the execution of Timothy McVeigh, and while I'm conflicted about my support for capital punishment, I think I can definitely say that the seriously mentally ill should not be subject to it. On the other hand, I think that the "maybe" in your statement about Texas, at least, is misplaced. It is one of the things the rest of the world reviles us for.
35
@29,
Because the prosecutor has decided not to pursue it. I could be wrong, but it's my understanding that if the prosecutor wants to pursue a death penalty case, he/she has to state that from the beginning, before going to trial.
@32,
That's really easy to say until you're faced with a naked, armed, rabidly violent man in your own home who outweighs you by 100 pounds in muscle. Have you seen Kalebu? He's not a fucking munchkin.
And P.S., fuck you very much for blaming two victims of rape, assault, and murder.
Because the prosecutor has decided not to pursue it. I could be wrong, but it's my understanding that if the prosecutor wants to pursue a death penalty case, he/she has to state that from the beginning, before going to trial.
@32,
That's really easy to say until you're faced with a naked, armed, rabidly violent man in your own home who outweighs you by 100 pounds in muscle. Have you seen Kalebu? He's not a fucking munchkin.
And P.S., fuck you very much for blaming two victims of rape, assault, and murder.
36
32, i believe anger serves you better than fear in these situations. that has been my direct experience, as a matter of fact. it's not as easy to summon when a knife is present, let alone a gun, but yes, by all means, it usually pays to summon it--the more fearful you seem, the more powerful they feel. but...YOU are angry at THEM? it's their own lives they lost, not yours or your loved ones. how does that make you angry, exactly?
37
it is probably not what people want to hear, but the way to prevent these crimes is by investing in mental health outreach, diagnoses, treatement & general infrastructure. you can stop crazy people from killing people BEFORE they kill them. these aren't crimes of passion, they are crimes of insanity. from what i recall from reading at the time of the crime, he was a diagnosed and untreated schitzofrenic (sp?). put enough untreated schitzofrenic people on the street & this is the sort of horrific thing that inevitably happens a certain percentage of the time.
people want to kill this guy now. in the abstract, i don't have a problem w/ it. that brand of justice is common throughout the world and if it can be applied to any crime, it can be applied to this one.* however, that alone will do nothing to prevent this sort of thing from happening again.
*that said, i oppose the death penalty because of both the way it is applied (i.e. against blacks more than white) & the horror show that is our 'justice system,' (where your court appointed attorney can sleep through your murder trial & that isn't grounds for an appeal (this actually happened)).
people want to kill this guy now. in the abstract, i don't have a problem w/ it. that brand of justice is common throughout the world and if it can be applied to any crime, it can be applied to this one.* however, that alone will do nothing to prevent this sort of thing from happening again.
*that said, i oppose the death penalty because of both the way it is applied (i.e. against blacks more than white) & the horror show that is our 'justice system,' (where your court appointed attorney can sleep through your murder trial & that isn't grounds for an appeal (this actually happened)).
38
Wow #32, talk about misplaced anger. Why not be angry at rape culture, at the lack of resources for the mentally ill in this city/state/country, at misogyny and patriarchy? Why choose to blame the victims? That just seems absurd. That's great that you feel like you can do that, but not everyone has such fortitude. Not to mention that there currently is no conclusive evidence that doing what the attacker wants vs not doing what the attacker wants leads to less harm. You talk about "reading far too many stories" where the man kills the woman after she cooperates--ever think that perhaps you DON'T hear about the stories where women DON'T get killed for cooperating? Where they escape safely? A survival strategy is just that--a strategy. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Tragically, it didn't in this case--but maybe if they fought back they also would have gotten killed. It is absolutely not your place to judge them.
39
@37,
Kalebu actively resisted treatment. In this country, for the past 50 years, the state has not had the authority to force treatment on anyone until they harm someone else or themselves. In fact, in California, mental institutions don't have the authority to forcibly medicate dangerous patients. A mental health worker was murdered by one of those patients recently. The policy stands.
So, no, it's not possible to stop crazy people from killing others. Greater resources would not have saved Teresa Butz.
Kalebu actively resisted treatment. In this country, for the past 50 years, the state has not had the authority to force treatment on anyone until they harm someone else or themselves. In fact, in California, mental institutions don't have the authority to forcibly medicate dangerous patients. A mental health worker was murdered by one of those patients recently. The policy stands.
So, no, it's not possible to stop crazy people from killing others. Greater resources would not have saved Teresa Butz.
40
@39
i stand by my statement. rises in violent crime in the 80s were tracked to the cuts in funding for mental health under reagan. and kalebu's refusal to take part in a system that has been horribly broken for his entire life doesn't lessen the overall impact increased mental health services can have in lessening the violent crime of the diagnosed mentally ill.
i stand by my statement. rises in violent crime in the 80s were tracked to the cuts in funding for mental health under reagan. and kalebu's refusal to take part in a system that has been horribly broken for his entire life doesn't lessen the overall impact increased mental health services can have in lessening the violent crime of the diagnosed mentally ill.
41
@40
The rise in violent crime undoubtedly had more to do with the crack/cocaine trade but nice try in your attempt to use this this in a left-wing agenda.
The rise in violent crime undoubtedly had more to do with the crack/cocaine trade but nice try in your attempt to use this this in a left-wing agenda.
42
@40,
And what accounts for the staggering drop in violent crime over the past 20 years? I haven't noticed huge investments in mental health. Have you?
Every high-profile violent crime motivated (at least in part) by mental illness that I can think of involved someone purposely off his meds or someone who has deliberately resisted mental health treatment his entire life.
And the major push under Reagan was de-institutionalization. There's no putting that genie back in the bottle. Mentally ill people have rights, and those rights can't be revoked until they kill someone or try to kill themselves.
And what accounts for the staggering drop in violent crime over the past 20 years? I haven't noticed huge investments in mental health. Have you?
Every high-profile violent crime motivated (at least in part) by mental illness that I can think of involved someone purposely off his meds or someone who has deliberately resisted mental health treatment his entire life.
And the major push under Reagan was de-institutionalization. There's no putting that genie back in the bottle. Mentally ill people have rights, and those rights can't be revoked until they kill someone or try to kill themselves.
44
"Why not be angry at rape culture, at the lack of resources for the mentally ill in this city/state/country, at misogyny and patriarchy?"
Why not angry at black urban rape culture promoted through hip-hop and rap? Or does everything have to be the fault of straight, white males cuz that's sooooo boring.
"Kalebu actively resisted treatment"
And we can thank the ACLU and left for that.
"rises in violent crime in the 80s were tracked to the cuts in funding for mental health"
Ok, so what about the drops in violent crime in the last 10 years?
"what accounts for the staggering drop in violent crime over the past 20 years? "
Abortion...it's doing a great job at eliminating potential criminals.
Why not angry at black urban rape culture promoted through hip-hop and rap? Or does everything have to be the fault of straight, white males cuz that's sooooo boring.
"Kalebu actively resisted treatment"
And we can thank the ACLU and left for that.
"rises in violent crime in the 80s were tracked to the cuts in funding for mental health"
Ok, so what about the drops in violent crime in the last 10 years?
"what accounts for the staggering drop in violent crime over the past 20 years? "
Abortion...it's doing a great job at eliminating potential criminals.
45
@32: I have a ton of responses. It's so easy to have the benefit of hindsight, but very difficult to say how you'd react in such a terrible situation. A strange, larger man is crazy enough to break into your house and hold a knife in your bedroom. He's got the knife to your partner, whom you love. Maybe you could fight back, but what will happen to your partner?
Oh, and Theresa's serious wounds probably happened after she started to fight back.
Oh, and I'm sorry that the ordeal these two women suffered upsets you.
Oh, and Theresa's serious wounds probably happened after she started to fight back.
Oh, and I'm sorry that the ordeal these two women suffered upsets you.
46
We should just admit that, as a society, we're really bad at living with some kinds of mental illness.
BTW, let me jump in and get points for pointing out that almost all mentally ill people are far more hazardous to themselves than to other people.
The sad fact is Kalebu was an asshole. He should die for his crimes regardless of his mental illness. If it makes you feel better, consider his execution less a punishment for him and more a coping strategy for us.
BTW, let me jump in and get points for pointing out that almost all mentally ill people are far more hazardous to themselves than to other people.
The sad fact is Kalebu was an asshole. He should die for his crimes regardless of his mental illness. If it makes you feel better, consider his execution less a punishment for him and more a coping strategy for us.
47
AND, back to the point of the post: I used to be against the death penalty. The more details I read and the more banal evil I see, the more I'm ready to admit some people just deserve to die.
48
I wasn't going to read the story, and then I read the comments and forced myself to read the story to make sure I still held my gut beliefs about the death penalty. In response to @33, the death penalty leaves us:
1. Certainty he will never hurt anyone again.
True, dat. Dead people rarely hurt others.
2. The costs of housing him and treating him until he dies of natural causes.
Hm, except those are usually cheaper than a death penalty case. Unless you want to cheap out on a death penalty case, refusing to allow for expert witnesses, appeals, etc. and thereby increasing the likelihood an innocent person will be executed. That (to me) would be a crime comparable in magnitude to this one; I'm not willing to go there. Are you?
3. The guilt of locking a human in a cage for decades.
Is that worse than the guilt of killing a human being? Really? Locked in a cage, s/he at least has the possibility of meaning, redemption, proving innocence, etc.
4. A clear signal of our priorities as a society.
If we believe that you deserve it, we will kill you and spend a lot of money to do it. Know what? I'd rather lock them up forever (or until they prove their innocence) and spend the money on education. But that's just me.
Let's just remember these are peoples' attitudes before they've heard a defense. Would any of you, accused of a capital crime, think a jury of your peers might give into blood lust and a desire for revenge before a desire for justice? Read this before you answer: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/…
1. Certainty he will never hurt anyone again.
True, dat. Dead people rarely hurt others.
2. The costs of housing him and treating him until he dies of natural causes.
Hm, except those are usually cheaper than a death penalty case. Unless you want to cheap out on a death penalty case, refusing to allow for expert witnesses, appeals, etc. and thereby increasing the likelihood an innocent person will be executed. That (to me) would be a crime comparable in magnitude to this one; I'm not willing to go there. Are you?
3. The guilt of locking a human in a cage for decades.
Is that worse than the guilt of killing a human being? Really? Locked in a cage, s/he at least has the possibility of meaning, redemption, proving innocence, etc.
4. A clear signal of our priorities as a society.
If we believe that you deserve it, we will kill you and spend a lot of money to do it. Know what? I'd rather lock them up forever (or until they prove their innocence) and spend the money on education. But that's just me.
Let's just remember these are peoples' attitudes before they've heard a defense. Would any of you, accused of a capital crime, think a jury of your peers might give into blood lust and a desire for revenge before a desire for justice? Read this before you answer: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/…
49
Eli,
Well, I got around to reading the rest of the post. Very difficult to get through it. Quite ghastly. I can't imagine you're happy about covering the trial.
After perusing it, I find it difficult to ascertain that he was insane when committing the acts. This is one mean & vile human being. I am a reluctant supporter of Capital Punishment but in this case if convicted, I would endorse Kalebu's execution. I doubt he'll get it if found guilty. I believe the prosecution didn't call for it in the preliminary hearing. But this is one heinous crime. He seems to have no remorse and I believe it was premeditated. No, this person, Kalebu doesn't need to be treated anymore for mental illness. Should he be convicted, I hope he is given mandatory life imprisonment w/o a chance of parole at the very least. Bloody sad.
Well, I got around to reading the rest of the post. Very difficult to get through it. Quite ghastly. I can't imagine you're happy about covering the trial.
After perusing it, I find it difficult to ascertain that he was insane when committing the acts. This is one mean & vile human being. I am a reluctant supporter of Capital Punishment but in this case if convicted, I would endorse Kalebu's execution. I doubt he'll get it if found guilty. I believe the prosecution didn't call for it in the preliminary hearing. But this is one heinous crime. He seems to have no remorse and I believe it was premeditated. No, this person, Kalebu doesn't need to be treated anymore for mental illness. Should he be convicted, I hope he is given mandatory life imprisonment w/o a chance of parole at the very least. Bloody sad.
52
I clicked through to get to the comments but am not reading the stuff above.
I got it loud and clear last year from the details that were reported that this was the most horrible of crimes. I don't need to hear the details. Eli some of us can read between the lines and know that there was more horrible stuff that wasn't written up detail by detail.
I got it loud and clear last year from the details that were reported that this was the most horrible of crimes. I don't need to hear the details. Eli some of us can read between the lines and know that there was more horrible stuff that wasn't written up detail by detail.
53
Way to go, all you naive white Seattle libtards who support Seattle's idiotic namby-pamby wimpy "social justice" system. You get to live in the filth and squalor that your dipshit reality-ignoring policies help to create.
54
@53: I'm tired of hearing how I should be terrified of black people. It's not really true, you know.
It must also be easy to be liberal in Detroit (~80% black), since Motor City is more liberal than any other American metropolitan area.
It must also be easy to be liberal in Detroit (~80% black), since Motor City is more liberal than any other American metropolitan area.
56
@26 I think you're talking about involuntary commitment, not incarceration. He will likely receive no mental health evaluations or treatment in prison, except in the context of classification. It's not clear what a principal investigator could get out of it, anyway. The psychotic are sui generis, by definition.
@40 Deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill started in the late 50's/early 60's (under Eisenhower, then Kennedy), with a second surge related to mental retardation in the mid 70's. The increase in incarceration dates to 1979-81 (depending on what metric you're using) and is still climbing. That's not a couple of years lag time; that's a whole generation. And another generation since then.
@capital punishment: If he ever makes it into general population (unlikely) at whatever security level, his life expectancy can probably be measured in months if not weeks or days. Rapists are not well liked, and it's not like he's developed finely tuned skills at making friends and influencing people. I'm sure Eli will set up a betting pool if asked nicely.
@40 Deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill started in the late 50's/early 60's (under Eisenhower, then Kennedy), with a second surge related to mental retardation in the mid 70's. The increase in incarceration dates to 1979-81 (depending on what metric you're using) and is still climbing. That's not a couple of years lag time; that's a whole generation. And another generation since then.
@capital punishment: If he ever makes it into general population (unlikely) at whatever security level, his life expectancy can probably be measured in months if not weeks or days. Rapists are not well liked, and it's not like he's developed finely tuned skills at making friends and influencing people. I'm sure Eli will set up a betting pool if asked nicely.
58
I recently watched "The Gits" movie, about the rise of that punk band and the brutal murder of Mia Zapata.
I just keep wondering the same thing: what is so fucking wrong with the male of the species? Why are they responsible for 95% of all the violent crimes in our society? Yes, there are violent women criminals but you have to look hard to find them.
I just keep wondering the same thing: what is so fucking wrong with the male of the species? Why are they responsible for 95% of all the violent crimes in our society? Yes, there are violent women criminals but you have to look hard to find them.
59
When they roll him into the trial or when he walked in he made the comment something to the effect of why are they going through the trial everyone says he is crazy....that is going to be his lawyer's defense and I am not sure after looking at all the evidence and the brutality of this man's actions how his lawyer could even utter one word in any sort of defense.
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