Slog
News & ArtsTuesday, May 24, 2011
City Richard Conlin Says Your Vote Means "Nothing"
Posted by Dominic Holden on Tue, May 24, 2011 at 9:24 AM
Richard Conlin on the tunnel referendum:
"Some of us are calling it the 'Seinfeld referendum,' " said City Council President Richard Conlin, a tunnel supporter. "It's going to be a referendum about nothing,"
The city council—primarily Richard Conlin—tried to pass a law in February specifically crafted to prevent citizens from referring the final tunnel decision to the ballot. A judge was absolutely unmistakable that, because of that ploy, this referendum was the only chance for voters to have their say on the tunnel. If they hadn't gathered signatures and qualified for the ballot, the tunnel issue would be over. Done with. But it's not. Now we'll be voting this August because of this "referendum about nothing," and the council may have to pass another ordinance (which may be subject to referendum).
Like the lengthy process or not, like the deep-bore tunnel or not, like Richard Conlin or not—this referendum plows the playing field on the biggest political issue the council has touched in a decade.
This is a a vote on whether the tunnel is a done deal, it's a vote on whether Seattle thinks we should pitch in roughly $930 million on a transportation megaproject that fails at moving vehicles, it's a vote on whether the council can slyly cut voters out of a policy decision. Maybe that's "nothing" to Richard Conlin, but that doesn't make him right. It makes him full of shit.
3
I find Richard's comment offensive and I think it shows how out-of-touch he is with some voters. Ironic since many of the people supporting the referrendum were once his supporters.
4
Did anyone else notice that New Jersey just got told to fully fund their schools as their State Constitution requires?
Secret meetings won't save your precious Tunnel, Comrade Conlin.
It's still a boondoggle and every Seattle citizen knows it.
Secret meetings won't save your precious Tunnel, Comrade Conlin.
It's still a boondoggle and every Seattle citizen knows it.
6
Did he not get the memo from the Elway poll showing 50% or more of voters don't want the tunnel. It seems ill-advised to mock half the electorate.
And if this is really about nothing why has Conlin spent the last two months tacking around this issue.
And if this is really about nothing why has Conlin spent the last two months tacking around this issue.
7
@6, over 50% of the voters don't want the tunnel; over 50% don't want a rebuilt viaduct; over 50% of the voters don't want a surface option. THERE IS NO MAJORITY OPINION. So what would you have them do?
8
You might be right on the emotional notes of this referendum, but what will the results actually mean in terms of policy and action on the viaduct replacement? That is, if voters decide that the council doesn't have the final say on the contracts, then who does?
9
The people who pay the bills, Josh.
Which is the Citizens.
Corporations and non-profit organizations created by Billionaires don't pay taxes, Citizens do.
Which is the Citizens.
Corporations and non-profit organizations created by Billionaires don't pay taxes, Citizens do.
10
Votes meaningless?
HORRORS!....
next thing you know they'll be nullifying votes cast to amend state constitutions to ban homosexual marriage....
HORRORS!....
next thing you know they'll be nullifying votes cast to amend state constitutions to ban homosexual marriage....
11
I'd have them do nothing, except tear down the viaduct and replace it with a four-lane, until a rational, no-bullshit plan that people can support emerges from experience.
In the meantime, there's plenty of decaying infrastructure around that the cornucopia of tax dollars burning a hole in their pocket can be spent on.
In the meantime, there's plenty of decaying infrastructure around that the cornucopia of tax dollars burning a hole in their pocket can be spent on.
12
You're right, this vote doesn't mean "nothing". This vote is a great way to find out how people feel about the tunnel. Once this vote is over everyone will know the opinions of exactly everyone who voted on this issue.
This is NOT a vote to stop the tunnel. If you were told that you were unfortunately lied to by a bunch of lawyers, the mayor included, who need a vote like this to hold up in court as " the will of the people" when they begin to sue.
This is a meaningless vote because the outcome of the voting process does not actually achieve the goal of the vote. You guys keep crying about how important this vote is to democracy but this vote is not a democratic vote. Having your opinion gathered in the voting booth is not democracy.
This is NOT a vote to stop the tunnel. If you were told that you were unfortunately lied to by a bunch of lawyers, the mayor included, who need a vote like this to hold up in court as " the will of the people" when they begin to sue.
This is a meaningless vote because the outcome of the voting process does not actually achieve the goal of the vote. You guys keep crying about how important this vote is to democracy but this vote is not a democratic vote. Having your opinion gathered in the voting booth is not democracy.
13
Dear Seattle:
You're decisions on transportion issues are stupid!
STUPID!
How many times did you vote FOR the monorail from West Seattle to Ballard? 3?
How many times did you vote against it? 1.
Does it provide a nice alternative to our wonderful mess on Elliott and 15th, as well as an alternative way to downtown over the West Seattle Bridge? NOPE!
Now you want to eliminate the Tunnel... Actually, why don't we do what public opinion states... Let's leave the viaduct up and then tear it down and not provide an alternative while we dig a tunnel.
We elect and pay politicians to make decisions that are bigger than any ONE voice... let them do their job...
SCREW EYMAN and anyone else that wants to put a stupid referendum on the ballot... and for all you people that are voting for this referendum, and I know a lot of you are totally against Eyman, but I do hope you see the hypocrisy of your vote here...
Let the damn tunnel be built, move on with our lives... it will be better for all of us.
You're decisions on transportion issues are stupid!
STUPID!
How many times did you vote FOR the monorail from West Seattle to Ballard? 3?
How many times did you vote against it? 1.
Does it provide a nice alternative to our wonderful mess on Elliott and 15th, as well as an alternative way to downtown over the West Seattle Bridge? NOPE!
Now you want to eliminate the Tunnel... Actually, why don't we do what public opinion states... Let's leave the viaduct up and then tear it down and not provide an alternative while we dig a tunnel.
We elect and pay politicians to make decisions that are bigger than any ONE voice... let them do their job...
SCREW EYMAN and anyone else that wants to put a stupid referendum on the ballot... and for all you people that are voting for this referendum, and I know a lot of you are totally against Eyman, but I do hope you see the hypocrisy of your vote here...
Let the damn tunnel be built, move on with our lives... it will be better for all of us.
14
Maybe instead of a tunnel referendum they should be having recall votes on City Council members.
I don't think the voters knew they had placed such imperialists in power!
15
He's not mocking the voters. He's mocking what they're going to be voting on (if they actually read what they're voting on, that is), which is NOT whether the tunnel should be built. He may be a jerk but the Stranger's imputation of what he's saying is wrong.
16
@7 The will of the people only matters when it's in your favor. Do you think Dominic or McGinn or Cary Moon or most of the people commenting here would give a rat's ass about the will of the people if the state was advancing the surface option?
17
We had a vote on whether or not to open one block of Pine Street. That was definitely a high mark for democracy--right up there with tearing down the Berlin Wall.
18
This vote means exactly as much as the one held back in 2007 did - nothing.
BTW - 70% of voters voted against the tunnel in 2007, and then turned around and re-elected Richard Conlin by an even higher margin, so I'd say the political fallout from this vote will be about exactly the same. Which to say - nil.
BTW - 70% of voters voted against the tunnel in 2007, and then turned around and re-elected Richard Conlin by an even higher margin, so I'd say the political fallout from this vote will be about exactly the same. Which to say - nil.
19
@2 "He's actually mocking voters now? Shameless."
Well given how SLOG mocks most of the city council and how the mayor attacks olympia legislators, one really shouldnt be shocked at this. Mayor has created a hostile political enviornment, so these sort of things are to be expected.
Well given how SLOG mocks most of the city council and how the mayor attacks olympia legislators, one really shouldnt be shocked at this. Mayor has created a hostile political enviornment, so these sort of things are to be expected.
20
@13 - This issue causes me to rethink my opion on Mr. Eyman. He's right on this one. Let the people decide. This is after all a democracy. The Democratic party establishment in Washington state seems loathe to let the people vote on any issue.
21
@20, so you want a rebuilt viaduct. You're probably going to get one, too. What a fucking disaster.
23
The referendum on the tunnel could easily morf into a referendum on the mayor, in which case it will lose by a landslide. Don't be surprised if the tunnel supporters turn the election into just that.
25
How many times should the SR99 replacement be put to a vote?
a. 3
b. 14
c. y=(mx)b
or
d. just one more time...to make real sure
a. 3
b. 14
c. y=(mx)b
or
d. just one more time...to make real sure
26
@16 I'd be just as against a surface/transit option if it were going to soak the city taxpayers with the cost overruns.
28
If there's no consensus on what to do--and there isn't--we shouldn't build anything. We should let people vote on whether they want to pay for repairs and if they don't, tear down the viaduct.
If traffic is bad enough, a majority will eventually agree on a replacement. There's no reason to build anything until we have that majority.
The problem, of course, is that the state wants its freeway one way or the other and doesn't give a crap about Seattle. I think the entire misguided stance of local politicians is based on fear of the scenario Fnarf mentions: if Seattle rejects a tunnel, the state will cram a replacement viaduct through downtown, one that has none of the charm of the original and requires the demolition of more of the city. We need to figure out a way collectively to tell the state to go to hell so that Seattle can fix (or not fix) this problem for itself.
If traffic is bad enough, a majority will eventually agree on a replacement. There's no reason to build anything until we have that majority.
The problem, of course, is that the state wants its freeway one way or the other and doesn't give a crap about Seattle. I think the entire misguided stance of local politicians is based on fear of the scenario Fnarf mentions: if Seattle rejects a tunnel, the state will cram a replacement viaduct through downtown, one that has none of the charm of the original and requires the demolition of more of the city. We need to figure out a way collectively to tell the state to go to hell so that Seattle can fix (or not fix) this problem for itself.
30
You're feeding your readers misinformation and opinion, and it's clear you ought to register as a lobbyist for the anti-tunnel campaign.
For starters, Conlin said the referendum, not voters' votes, was meaningless, but you purposely and unfairly distorted his intent to your readers. It's no different than Fox News giving one slated view of the issue, and it cheats your audience. If Fox told me a tunnel with thousands of cars passing through it "fails" to move traffic, I'd laugh out loud - as I did reading it in the Strangler.
The referendum is indeed meaningless since it's merely advisory, and the council can do as it wishes, including creating a new ordinance, and then facing a new court challenge, etc. etc. Meanwhile, the tunnel project goes on. You've lost, and in the process made you and your paper look like chumps. Yes, full of shit is the word.
For starters, Conlin said the referendum, not voters' votes, was meaningless, but you purposely and unfairly distorted his intent to your readers. It's no different than Fox News giving one slated view of the issue, and it cheats your audience. If Fox told me a tunnel with thousands of cars passing through it "fails" to move traffic, I'd laugh out loud - as I did reading it in the Strangler.
The referendum is indeed meaningless since it's merely advisory, and the council can do as it wishes, including creating a new ordinance, and then facing a new court challenge, etc. etc. Meanwhile, the tunnel project goes on. You've lost, and in the process made you and your paper look like chumps. Yes, full of shit is the word.
31
I've stopped caring. The "seattle process" won. It's one of the tradeoffs for living here.
I'm also currently in South Florida and this place scares the shit out of me. I'll take Seattle and it's "holy fuck it's been ten years since the nisqually quake and we're still voting on a replacement" process over this hell hole any day.
I'm also currently in South Florida and this place scares the shit out of me. I'll take Seattle and it's "holy fuck it's been ten years since the nisqually quake and we're still voting on a replacement" process over this hell hole any day.
33
Each losing side is going to keep floating initiatives in the years to come, to try to get their way. Nothing will ever get built. Status quo is always better than scary progress: It's the Seattle Way.
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
SL Letter of the Day: Outside the Gay Bar by Dan Savage
-
Lunchtime Quickie: Cyclist vs Car by Kelly O
-
Sunday Morning News by Riya Bhattacharjee
-
SL Letter of the Day: Lying Liars by Dan Savage
-
Slog Bible Study: Exodus 32:24-29 by Goldy
-
Conservative GOP Arizona Sheriff—and Mitt Romney AZ Campaign Co-Chair—Pledges to Deport Illegal Immigrants by Dan Savage
-
What Did an ESPN Blogger call the Asian American Baller Lin? by Charles Mudede
-
Walmart Tries to Pay Workers in Walmart Vouchers by Paul Constant
-
Why I'm Suing Attorney James Egan by Pete Holmes
-
Pharmacy Can Refuse Women Emergency Contraceptives, Judge Rules by Cienna Madrid
RSS
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (33) RSS