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News & ArtsTuesday, April 12, 2011
Homo Gender Atypical
Posted by Dan Savage on Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 6:53 AM
Got this question last night at Cornell University...
Cornell professor Ritch Savin-Williams said in the New York Times that he's concerned that it's not about gay youth, but about gender-atypical kids. Is the "It Gets Better" campaign too narrowly focused?
The kids who suffer the most from anti-gay bullying—the prime targets—are the gender-nonconforming kids, i.e. the sissies and the tomboys, the kids who can't pass for straight. And some of the kids who can't pass for straight are straight. Most kids who are gender nonconforming, or gender atypical, are lesbian, gay, bi, or trans, and the IGBP was created to reach out to these queer kids. But the messages at the IGBP are relevant to straight gender-atypical kids, and we know that straight-but-gender-nonconforming kids are watching the videos, commenting on them, taking hope from them, and contributing their own videos.
But, yes, we have to address issues around gender—gender expectations and stereotypes—to truly address anti-gay bullying. We can learn to recognize rough gender norms without stigmatizing or punishing kids who depart from those norms. We also need to remember that it's not just the non-passing, gender-atypical kids who suffer in environments were anti-gay bullying or homophobic speech is tolerated or encouraged. Even the kids who can pass—the gender-conforming queer kids out there—suffer. Kids who no one suspects are gay witness anti-gay violence, listen to anti-gay statements made by thoughtless and bigoted friends and family members, and feel despair. They worry about being outed, they feel like frauds, they doubt that their families truly love them, and they can wind up feeling just as terrorized and suicidal as the kids who are the primary targets of anti-gay bullying and harassment.
1
Clearly, the It Gets Better Project needs a sequel:
The Do Everything For Everyone Right Now Project.
Get crackin'.
The Do Everything For Everyone Right Now Project.
Get crackin'.
2
Or it helps drives the straight-appearing gay kid into a life of closeted behavior and perhaps violent homophobia, which can destroy not only his life, but potentially others.
I once had a conversation/passive-aggresive arguement with a staff member at a gay youth center. I casually mentioned that I was concerned that we (well-meaning adults) are sometimes as guilty of Stereotyping kids as straight people are. This person told me that "those kids" don't matter because a.) the "straight-appearing" ones aren't getting bullied, and b.) the "gay-appearing" straight ones are straight.
Being a teenager is a dreadful experience, even for the popular kids. I think we - all of us adults - best serve teens by being responsible, caring grown-ups and accepting them for what they are (while holding them to standards, of course). We don't need to be their "best friends", or try to relive our youth through them, which is what my friend from the center was doing..
I once had a conversation/passive-aggresive arguement with a staff member at a gay youth center. I casually mentioned that I was concerned that we (well-meaning adults) are sometimes as guilty of Stereotyping kids as straight people are. This person told me that "those kids" don't matter because a.) the "straight-appearing" ones aren't getting bullied, and b.) the "gay-appearing" straight ones are straight.
Being a teenager is a dreadful experience, even for the popular kids. I think we - all of us adults - best serve teens by being responsible, caring grown-ups and accepting them for what they are (while holding them to standards, of course). We don't need to be their "best friends", or try to relive our youth through them, which is what my friend from the center was doing..
3
I realized I liked girls in a real way in high school, and no one else suspected. I suppose that means it was easier for me than for someone who doesn't have the option of hiding, but hiding isn't fun either. All I had, back then, to show me what gay meant was Victor/Victoria and Rocky Horror on vhs, and the annual token gay on The Real World. For a while I had a crush on Sandra Bernhard because I thought I was supposed to ONLY crush on gay women (didn't want to be some lesbian predator) and she was the only one I knew of. I remember sneaking at the public library and reading an article on lesbians in the New Yorker. It was about women in California shooting an instructional porn on solo female ejaculation. I would have LOVED to stumble across an IGBP back then. I thought I was the only gay person around here. I thought gay people all lived in New York and California and were cultured and sophisticated and artistic, everything I wasn't anyway. Being queer in small-town, Midwestern, Christian, pre-internet America sucked, regardless of my gender conformity.
I may not always agree with your advice, Dan. But I will always thank you for the IGBP. You are saving lives and saving sanity. You are also saving straights, something I haven't heard you get credit for yet. If gay teens grow up without shame, they won't have to try to "straighten" themselves up by marrying unsuspecting straights. But either way, thanks to you and Terry, it will get better for more people now than it would have without you.
I may not always agree with your advice, Dan. But I will always thank you for the IGBP. You are saving lives and saving sanity. You are also saving straights, something I haven't heard you get credit for yet. If gay teens grow up without shame, they won't have to try to "straighten" themselves up by marrying unsuspecting straights. But either way, thanks to you and Terry, it will get better for more people now than it would have without you.
4
I would think even Tony Perkins would be against bullying of gender atypical behaving teens. Is there something in Leviticus about boys not being allowed to enjoy musical theater?
5
God yes. I was a small, weak, gawkish, sissy boy who had to learn how to fake tough really early to protect myself. As a result I was terrified that I might be gay -- doomed to a life of horror, even -- well into adulthood. When you don't know who you are because you're afraid of what that might be, you have to rely on absurd stereotypes of manhood to form a front. That's what all these creepy homophobes are all about; you can see it from a mile away. Fortunately I didn't turn out that way -- or gay either, as it happens.
6
Well put, Dan. It's a complicated mess that causes a lot of suffering--to gender conformists and nonconformists of all orientations and identities--but by going straight to the source a lot of that suffering can be alleviated.
8
I was Fnarf's inverse: liked video games, comic books and scifi more than romance or soaps; played field hockey & soccer; total computer geek. Kept wondering how I could be a lesbian when I liked guys so much. I'm good at reading people, so I managed to have enough popular friends to keep me out of harm's way.
Totally can see how someone like me could end up bullied as a teenager and as a NOM bully in adulthood. IGBP would have been super helpful for me at the time.
Totally can see how someone like me could end up bullied as a teenager and as a NOM bully in adulthood. IGBP would have been super helpful for me at the time.
9
As a straight male bullying survivor, I think it is important to point out that BEING BULLIED is taken/used as evidence of gender noncomforming/being gay. A "real man" would be able to defend himself. So the fact that a kid CAN BE bullied is used as justification that he SHOULD BE bullied. This is similar to prison rape, where the rapists argue that their victims must be gay and therefore "deserved" (and probably "enjoyed") being raped.
10
Well said, Dan. As a parent of a straight non-gender conforming literature obsessed child who was despondent over being bullied for her lack of conformity and is only now (a year later) bouncing back, the project is incredibly encouraging and affirming. It only takes eyes and a willing heart to see that something need not be tailor made to make a profound impact. Knowing one is not alone is huge. Keep up the good work, love!
11
I'm a little curious about a blanket statement that "Most kids who are gender nonconforming, or gender atypical, are lesbian, gay, bi, or trans..."
Really? Considering how restrictive a lot of gender-role stuff is, I know so many women and girls who are straight but aren't completely gender-conforming. All of those boys who like theater are considered gender-nonconforming by a virulently homophobic society, but most of them are straight. Dan, you have specifically relayed that most cross-dressers are straight males (which is consistent with modern research).
Just like most anal is done by straight folks, because there are more of them, I think more gender-nonconforming is done by straight folks. (For some people, a lot of people, pegging is "gender nonconforming".) It doesn't mean that the IGBP is any less relevant (it's wonderful and I'm so proud of this community of LGBT and allies to support and promote it). I think one of the things that you, and others have said all along is that strict gender roles play into homophobia, misogyny, bullying, and hatred.
Really? Considering how restrictive a lot of gender-role stuff is, I know so many women and girls who are straight but aren't completely gender-conforming. All of those boys who like theater are considered gender-nonconforming by a virulently homophobic society, but most of them are straight. Dan, you have specifically relayed that most cross-dressers are straight males (which is consistent with modern research).
Just like most anal is done by straight folks, because there are more of them, I think more gender-nonconforming is done by straight folks. (For some people, a lot of people, pegging is "gender nonconforming".) It doesn't mean that the IGBP is any less relevant (it's wonderful and I'm so proud of this community of LGBT and allies to support and promote it). I think one of the things that you, and others have said all along is that strict gender roles play into homophobia, misogyny, bullying, and hatred.
12
@1: yes, definitely. If the only negative thing that people can say about the project is that it isn't targeted towards every single teenager who might be suffering, then you're probably doing pretty well.
Of course, now that the IGBP is a Big Thing, getting national media attention, people who have been involved with it can choose to focus on straight kids who are getting bullied, or whoever they want--and they have. Certainly non-queers have been posting videos, and I am absolutely certain that nerds, straight sissies and tomboys derive comfort from being told that it gets better for bullied teenagers. go Dan!
Of course, now that the IGBP is a Big Thing, getting national media attention, people who have been involved with it can choose to focus on straight kids who are getting bullied, or whoever they want--and they have. Certainly non-queers have been posting videos, and I am absolutely certain that nerds, straight sissies and tomboys derive comfort from being told that it gets better for bullied teenagers. go Dan!
13
You just never know when something or someone is going to come along and change your life or the lives of others.
For my own adult IGBP, I'm committed to being kinder and gentler to people I don't know by giving them 2 minutes of my time. You just never know how much that 2 minutes may mean to the other person. It's a good life lesson, a good way to live. IMO.
Keep changing lives. All of them.
For my own adult IGBP, I'm committed to being kinder and gentler to people I don't know by giving them 2 minutes of my time. You just never know how much that 2 minutes may mean to the other person. It's a good life lesson, a good way to live. IMO.
Keep changing lives. All of them.
14
Blaghag posted a lovely response to this... http://tinyurl.com/3ngsg8k
There is just so much confusion over this. I was the total tomboy as well -- and did like the boys as well as the girls. Being told it was "normal" for girls to crush on other women, I didn't figure the bisexual angle till college. But in high school, I was pretty much in Jennifer's place, with the additional complication of being the only deaf kid in the school.
Zero tolerance on bullying. Excellent starting point. With that, kids can sort things out a bit easier.
I'm actually very interested to see what these generations (roughtly, today's 13-28 year olds) are going to do to our concepts of conventional gender roles. There's way more discussion and awareness of the related issues these days.
There is just so much confusion over this. I was the total tomboy as well -- and did like the boys as well as the girls. Being told it was "normal" for girls to crush on other women, I didn't figure the bisexual angle till college. But in high school, I was pretty much in Jennifer's place, with the additional complication of being the only deaf kid in the school.
Zero tolerance on bullying. Excellent starting point. With that, kids can sort things out a bit easier.
I'm actually very interested to see what these generations (roughtly, today's 13-28 year olds) are going to do to our concepts of conventional gender roles. There's way more discussion and awareness of the related issues these days.
15
Kids who no one suspects are gay witness anti-gay violence, listen to anti-gay statements made by thoughtless and bigoted friends and family members, and feel despair. They worry about being outed, they feel like frauds, they doubt that their families truly love them, and they can wind up feeling just as terrorized and suicidal as the kids who are the primary targets of anti-gay bullying and harassment.
Totally me. I was so afraind I stayed in the closet waaaaaay too long. I realize people have to overcome that & be brave, but as a kid everytime I heard "Fag this" or "cocksuccker that"; I promised myself I would never admit I liked boys as well as girls.
Totally me. I was so afraind I stayed in the closet waaaaaay too long. I realize people have to overcome that & be brave, but as a kid everytime I heard "Fag this" or "cocksuccker that"; I promised myself I would never admit I liked boys as well as girls.
16
@13: If you do that you'll have to change your screen name you know. Because despicable you are surely not. :)
18
@3 Your last paragraph... We just don't hear that expressed enough! These NOM idiots stand for destroying two marriages for every gay person on Earth (one for the gay person not allowed to marry someone compatible, and the other for the naive straight person doomed to a broken heart.)
19
I am a somewhat tomboyish female (straight) and I was bullied in high school-- two different ones in two different continents. I actually forwarded the IGBP to one of my closeted gay friends and it made him feel better. Honestly, it made ME feel better about the past. I don't think only gay teens are saved by IGBP, it may be targeted towards them but I occasionally work with teens and many of them gay and straight have told me how much the videos have helped them feel better.
20
I'm sorry, but the opinion of anyone working for Cornell about gender issues is INVALID so long as they continue to support Dix Papas (or whatever the hell his name is) and his intersex mutilation surgeries happening at that campus.
Just sayin.
Just sayin.
21
As a gender-conforming male who was fortunate enough to get through high school without being physically bullied because I stayed deep in the closet, I can definitely attest to the fact that there are harmful effects on gay youth regardless of conformity to gender norms. I think the analogy to use for this is to compare it to smoking. Just because you do not experience the first-hand bullying, a gender-conforming youth will definitely experience the second-hand bullying and the third-hand bullying (environmental remnant of the bullying). Watching others getting bullied, and not acting to stop it, really takes a psychological toll on you. The guilt and shame you feel last for a long time. Hearing the comments and witnessing the intolerance and lack of acceptance makes you fortify your closet even more. The “It Gets Better” Project was an invaluable source to help me get through the guilt. It gave me the confidence to be who I am completely: gender-conforming traits and gender-non-conforming traits. So this project is about gender non-conforming youth, but it is also most certainly about gay youth. These groups are not mutually exclusive, nor are they synonymous.
When Dan came to our university I told everyone this message: while IGBP was created for gay youth, it is a message that generalizes to all populations. It is a message of hope to every person who has ever felt that they don’t fit in. And whenever anyone says that it is only for one group I laugh to myself and their close-minded view of a very powerful community intervention. Yes, as a gay youth IGBP was very important in helping me appreciate myself, but I know many other people who this message has impacted that do not fit the target audience.
When Dan came to our university I told everyone this message: while IGBP was created for gay youth, it is a message that generalizes to all populations. It is a message of hope to every person who has ever felt that they don’t fit in. And whenever anyone says that it is only for one group I laugh to myself and their close-minded view of a very powerful community intervention. Yes, as a gay youth IGBP was very important in helping me appreciate myself, but I know many other people who this message has impacted that do not fit the target audience.
22
Kind of OT, but anyway...I came out to my little brother when he was 14 and a gender-non-conforming teen. He liked drama, musicals, swim team, etc. I asked him recently why he'd never 'experimented' in college like his peers. He told me this- "I wondered if I was gay for a few years, due to my love of theater, etc, but always remembered what you'd told me when I was 14- 'the way to know which sex you prefer is by the gender you visualize while masturbating'. Since I never visualized having sex with a man, I figured I wasn't gay and never had to experiment."
Since he's quite the horn-dog, there have been times he wished he *was* gay because sex is easier to come by, but alas.... BTW- he's completely accepting of all atypical sexualities.
Since he's quite the horn-dog, there have been times he wished he *was* gay because sex is easier to come by, but alas.... BTW- he's completely accepting of all atypical sexualities.
23
I was severely bullied in junior high and high school for being a 'lesbian". In my adult life, I have had a handful of short-live relationships with super awesome women, but the vast majority of my LTRs have been with hetero males. This harassment was frightening to me at the time; it began long before I even developed a sense of sexuality. I remember being very confused about why I was identified as homo to my peers, because I barely even knew what the term "sexuality" even meant. I was verbally, and, on two occasions physically assaulted because of rumors of my homosexuality. This was in the notorious Anoka-Hennepin School district in Minnesota, and when I talked to parents/counselors/teachers.psychologists about the harassment (like all the magazines and PSA's tell you to do) I was basically rebuffed and told there was no way to intervene without proof. It was extremely disruptive to my development and to my education to endure this unchecked behavior, especially since I was unconscious of the 'homosexual' traits I was displaying. This was the '90's...I hope/think it is better for tweens, now. In retrospect, this was horrible and traumatic, but ultimately it led to my complete and overt rejection of the homophobic mores of my hometown culture. I see this as an extension of the tragically rigid gender behaviors that are assigned to young people, especially in American suburbs.
24
When the IGBP started and I began to watch the videos I started crying and immediately shared it with as many people as I could. I was one of those straight non-gender conforming girls AND I was a geek (seriously, being into science fiction, only girl on the soccer team, dressed like a boy, and one of the "smart kids" is a recipe for constant bullying). I was called a lesbian and a slut because I spent so much time with the boys and told no one would want to be with a girl smarter than him. It was hard to deal with. I was lucky, my family was supportive plus I inherited my dad's and granddad's incredible stubborn streak. Most aren't so lucky.
25
Basically, the fact remains that so long as teenaged boys think that the worst possible thing in the world is gayness (whatever that means or they think it means), teenaged boys will *make it* so that the worst possible thing in the world is gayness.
I suspect that the only way out of that is for teenaged boys to start thinking that the worst possible thing in the world is intolerance, and for them to start deriding and bullying the intolerant.
But I seriously doubt that will happen in my lifetime. Instead, the vulnerable minorities that it's "okay" to pick on (whoever they are, just so long as they're smaller than the other guys), will be deridden and bullied until they kill themselves.
I suspect that the only way out of that is for teenaged boys to start thinking that the worst possible thing in the world is intolerance, and for them to start deriding and bullying the intolerant.
But I seriously doubt that will happen in my lifetime. Instead, the vulnerable minorities that it's "okay" to pick on (whoever they are, just so long as they're smaller than the other guys), will be deridden and bullied until they kill themselves.
26
This was a great talk. It was a chocolate-throwing good time.
The IGBP deals with issues of gender as it goes on a micro level, in my opinion, because anyone who feels otherized can take comfort in the message to wait out high school, even though the stated mission is to serve LGBT youth.
The question seems unfair however, even though its premise may be true because explicitly battling every type of negative behavior induced by gender norms is nice but one should not be only one group's, even a great group like the IGBP's job.
The IGBP deals with issues of gender as it goes on a micro level, in my opinion, because anyone who feels otherized can take comfort in the message to wait out high school, even though the stated mission is to serve LGBT youth.
The question seems unfair however, even though its premise may be true because explicitly battling every type of negative behavior induced by gender norms is nice but one should not be only one group's, even a great group like the IGBP's job.
27
So, so true. Thanks for highlighting this, Dan. While a good number of kids in my son's third grade class will grow up to be gay, the one who gets picked on is my long-haired, sports-loathing son (who may well be straight--we can't know until he tells us). I will say that the class tomboy is adored by all and does not suffer from teasing. It's only the most extreme tomboys who face social rejection, while any boy showing the slightest bit of femininity is a target.
I write about raising my gender-nonconforming son at www.sarahhoffmanwriter.com.
-Sarah Hoffman
I write about raising my gender-nonconforming son at www.sarahhoffmanwriter.com.
-Sarah Hoffman
28
I had the same experience as Fnarf. I was an athletic and nerdy girl who many people thought was gay. In fact, I was getting those messages so often, as well as the frowns and snickers that went with them, that I thought they must be true. Imagine letting others inform you of your sexual orientation! That's how meek I was. Nowadays it seems absurd that I was taking seriously the bigoted gossipy suggestions of others, rather than acknowledging my preference for and intense attraction to bearish, intellectual, middle-aged MEN (a preference I hold to this day). That's one of the reasons I hate anti-gay discrimination so much is because I was discriminated-against and I'm not even gay. The other reason of course is that it's right and good to treat people fairly.
29
Check out this J. Crew ad, and the response it got:
http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2011/04/j-c…
(Sarah Hoffman might like this one!)
http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2011/04/j-c…
(Sarah Hoffman might like this one!)
30
@28, we're in a very similar boat. I'm a nerdy, active female who was told my entire childhood that I had to be a lesbian. Now that I'm older, I realize that my preferences include older (middle-aged), intellectual men. Of course, it wasn't until I began to read Dan Savage at 13 when I started to question what I assumed I knew about sexuality. Even then, it took me a long time to really begin to understand myself and admit what I like without feeling awkward (I'm 21 now). My discovery of Dan at a youngish age and my experiences from being bullied are certainly among the things that contribute to my support of gay rights.
31
I was never bullied in school - probably in part because I was too off the chart to be either gender-conforming or gender-nonconforming and probably in part because I carried the tennis team. But it caught up with me; I was fired for being gay quite a number of years before I was no longer a virgin.
32
I might as well chime in. I was a poorly socialized guy with long hair and a name that often drew ridicule, so I got called gay a lot. As it turned out, I'm not gay, just weird.
33
most non-gender-conforming kids are lesbian, gay, bi or trans? If that's true, then how come the overwhelming majority of crossdressers are straight, and crossdressers vastly outnumber genuine transsexuals? Are there more swishy gay men than crossdressers? Honest question--you probably have the stats someplace.
And are you seriously saying that lesbian tomboys outnumber tomboys in general? That is ridiculous.
And are you seriously saying that lesbian tomboys outnumber tomboys in general? That is ridiculous.
34
Canuck @29, I love that ad! The current screensaver of my phone is a pic of my 3 year old nephew in a pink unitard and tutu. We were having a dance party in the living room and he announced "pants aren't for dancing" and raided his sister's closet.
From about one, I kinda wondered whether he was gay (loves clothes, particularly dresses, loves pink, always notices my jewelery and wants to wear it, obsessed with princesses). After recently watching him relate to kids his age and a variety of teachers, I'm pretty convinced he's primarily straight, but gender non-conforming. Either way, his parents know to be conscious of the possibility of bullying and assertive with the school board if need be.
From about one, I kinda wondered whether he was gay (loves clothes, particularly dresses, loves pink, always notices my jewelery and wants to wear it, obsessed with princesses). After recently watching him relate to kids his age and a variety of teachers, I'm pretty convinced he's primarily straight, but gender non-conforming. Either way, his parents know to be conscious of the possibility of bullying and assertive with the school board if need be.
35
I've been thinking for a while the project is too narrow. But not in the scope of who it's targetting. How many of the people who make videos then start lobbying town councils and state legislatures for anti-bullying laws? It's all well and good to tell kids that if they survive the next five or ten years they may be able to do whatever they like, but they need protections NOW.
36
As a straight guy in college in the middle of Ohio wearing pink sparkly nail polish, I can say: it does, in fact, get better.
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