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News & ArtsThursday, March 31, 2011
Homo Loving Christians Ask God to Make Sure a Gay Man Can't Have His Partner At His Bedside During a Medical Emergency, Ask God To Make Sure Lesbian Widows Are Prevented From Attending Their Partners' Funerals
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 8:51 AM
That's what it boils down to.
And to those who argue that gay people should just compromise and accept civil unions and leave marriage alone: the religious bigots who oppose—and successfully block—marriage equality also oppose civil unions. There is no civil unions "compromise" on the table. We have to fight even for second-class citizen status.
1
Damn Catholics.....
hey; Dan- wasn't your Mom Catholic?
Didn't she raise you Catholic?
That must be hard to swallow.....
hey; Dan- wasn't your Mom Catholic?
Didn't she raise you Catholic?
That must be hard to swallow.....
4
Exactly Dan.
These people are nothing but a bunch of bullshit peddlers, liars and frauds.
And to think they believe God is proud of them. Ha!
These people are nothing but a bunch of bullshit peddlers, liars and frauds.
And to think they believe God is proud of them. Ha!
5
"....To Make Sure Lesbian Widows Are Prevented From Attending Their Partners' Funerals"
Really Danny?
Check again. Your Depends are leaking.....
Really Danny?
Check again. Your Depends are leaking.....
7
In Christian Land "love" is hate and hate is love. Science is only o.k. when you need it to save your life or fly you somewhere. The gobermint is bad unless you need it to subsidize NASCAR or yourself. And the old testament is right unless it's wrong.
8
YES!! PRAY!!!
They really aren't praying enough. I wish they would pray more.
They waste valuable praying time every time they do stuff like go to the polls and vote. Praying is the single most effectual thing they can possibly do. Why would they ever do anything else?
We need to make them understand this.
They really aren't praying enough. I wish they would pray more.
They waste valuable praying time every time they do stuff like go to the polls and vote. Praying is the single most effectual thing they can possibly do. Why would they ever do anything else?
We need to make them understand this.
9
@3 Oh, please. No one is making that assertion. But you know what? Lots of them are. And the ones who are most vocal and most energized to propagate their beliefs in this country are, the majority of the time, of the bigoted conservative variety. People who think that everyone who is, was, or will ever be religious is ignorant and evil are wrong. But when it comes to spreading the faith and imposing beliefs on others, unfortunately it is the ignorant and evil leading the charge.
11
I'm moving to Denver in April. Which I was there now so I could show up with some signs of my own at their little "vigil" (can you really apply the word "vigil" to something so hateful?)
12
-If it passes, he warned, “You can be sure that we will not get the genie back in the bottle in our lifetime, perhaps never.”-
What? If I am allowed to get a civil union, it's likened to a cockamamie episode of I Dream Of Genie? Gay rights are Barbara Eden running amok and conservative Larry Hagman needs to get us back in our bottle before we embarrass him at the awards ceremony? Get a fucking grip, who lets these people have an opinion?
What? If I am allowed to get a civil union, it's likened to a cockamamie episode of I Dream Of Genie? Gay rights are Barbara Eden running amok and conservative Larry Hagman needs to get us back in our bottle before we embarrass him at the awards ceremony? Get a fucking grip, who lets these people have an opinion?
13
I jusr tried to comment, we'll see if they post it. The article mentions in clear terms what benefits gay people wouls gain, but is very vague about the damage traditional marriage would suffer. I was brought up catholic, and was married in a catholic church, but came out to my parents as an atheist shortly after <(the wife of course knew all along). Does the church think gay marriage will hurt traditional marriage more, or less than divorce? My marriage has made it so far with many divorces, I think it can survive gay marriage.
14
@11: You'll enjoy it here, it's actually a very good place to live. But for Chrissakes, learn how to spell first; we've already got enough illiterates.
15
@13 It's not about what it will do to anyone's marriage or anyone's army or anyone's adopted child. It's about full blown bigotry. Plain and simple.
16
@11,
Like 5280 said, it really is a great place to live. It's not at all conservative, despite this bill potentially not passing (the committee its in is has a repub majority unfortunately).
My guess is, if the anti-equality bigots do show up to protest at the capital, they'll be few in number and mostly ignored. I work a few blocks away from it, maybe I'll take a look around noon and report back.
Like 5280 said, it really is a great place to live. It's not at all conservative, despite this bill potentially not passing (the committee its in is has a repub majority unfortunately).
My guess is, if the anti-equality bigots do show up to protest at the capital, they'll be few in number and mostly ignored. I work a few blocks away from it, maybe I'll take a look around noon and report back.
17
@8 lol - YES
Of course, as an atheist, my own personal prayer generally goes along the lines of "God, save me from your followers..."
*sigh*
Of course, as an atheist, my own personal prayer generally goes along the lines of "God, save me from your followers..."
*sigh*
19
"It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said."
22
@11 please do. It would be interesting to know what you think.
@17 as a Christian, I find myself praying the same thing all too often.
For the record I did comment on the article, using my real name, offering my own prayers for the enlightenment of those who claim God's grace but do not feel it. Moderator will probably ensure you are the only ones to see any of it.
@17 as a Christian, I find myself praying the same thing all too often.
For the record I did comment on the article, using my real name, offering my own prayers for the enlightenment of those who claim God's grace but do not feel it. Moderator will probably ensure you are the only ones to see any of it.
23
I wouldn't call those individuals "loving Christians". I'd call them God bother-ers. I've heard it said that religion should be treated like a penis, it should be kept private and carefully tucked away. Shared in consensual situations. That it should not be taken out and waved before the crowd, then crammed down peoples throats. That's a God bother-er, someone who crams their religious beliefs down peoples throats. And, they whine that they are being persecuted when their victims bite back. Tis a rather rape-y analogy, sorry for that, and rather insulting to penises, too. Sorry.
24
I noticed that no comments have been posted yet. Mine got 'waiting approval'. Let's see if it gets approved.
I do not for the life of me understand how these people live with themselves. I couldn't imagine having that much hatred in my heart day in & day out. I think of christians like Bishops John Shelby Spong & Gene Robinson and Stephen Sprinkle and wonder how those men managed to gain their compassion while working within their respective churches. They are what church should be about. If there had been anyone like them when I was growing up I might not have stopped attending when I was 12.
I do not for the life of me understand how these people live with themselves. I couldn't imagine having that much hatred in my heart day in & day out. I think of christians like Bishops John Shelby Spong & Gene Robinson and Stephen Sprinkle and wonder how those men managed to gain their compassion while working within their respective churches. They are what church should be about. If there had been anyone like them when I was growing up I might not have stopped attending when I was 12.
25
Kim, my thoughts exactly. I always believed that a relationship with god was a private matter. Not something to be waved about as 'proof' of being a 'good' person. Ironically, when I was in the middle of a spiritual crisis at 17, wondering what horrible thing I did that made god do this to me, I got my consolation from the bible. I read that what my church had been telling me was wrong. What a relief!
27
Capricorn44, I'm not inclined to think that Spong, Robinson, Sprinkle, Borg... gained their compassion through their respective churches. I think it is more likely that their churches are an outlet for their compassion. Although they may draw warmth and inspiration from examples of Jesus feeding his followers, healing the sick, taking a political stance against the collusion of Rome and the Temple authorities... I tend to think that compassion is a byproduct of life experiences which allows the person to identify with others, reach out to others...
28
@23 Indeed Kim, and skepticism of highly implausible claims should be treated like breasts: flashed to the crowd at the slightest provocation.
29
Now wait just a Goddamned minute here - you've got something against breasts? That's downright unAmerican.l
31
I shouldn't be smug but... Sometimes I'm so glad I ended up on this side of the border. Not that we should rest on our laurels by any means. My town is full of these sorts of people. But it's also full of out lesbian couples and everyone talks pleasantly to each other. US queers: come to Canada! You are welcome here!
32
All states are conservative outside the big cities. Denver and Boulder are liberal and so are most of the suburbs. Colorado Springs and the rural areas are conservative. We have a Democratic governor and voted for Obama in the last election. Colorado is no more conservative than any other swing state.
34
@21,
Having lived in both Denver and Austin, I'd say Austin is more liberal than Denver, but in a weird way. Austin is more granola and hippy. Sort of like an anarchist commune, if that makes sense. EVERYONE is a fucking vegan, EVERYONE is covered in tattoos, EVERYONE smokes pot regularly. Everything is bigger in Texas, and the hippies in Austin aren't excluded... they're all trying to out-granola each other. Denver seems more "textbook" liberal. There are pot smokers and hippies, but you don't see herds of them like you do in Austin. People in Denver seem to keep more to themselves.
That's been my experience, at least (and I really do love both cities too).
Having lived in both Denver and Austin, I'd say Austin is more liberal than Denver, but in a weird way. Austin is more granola and hippy. Sort of like an anarchist commune, if that makes sense. EVERYONE is a fucking vegan, EVERYONE is covered in tattoos, EVERYONE smokes pot regularly. Everything is bigger in Texas, and the hippies in Austin aren't excluded... they're all trying to out-granola each other. Denver seems more "textbook" liberal. There are pot smokers and hippies, but you don't see herds of them like you do in Austin. People in Denver seem to keep more to themselves.
That's been my experience, at least (and I really do love both cities too).
35
So I just got back from the Denver rallies at the capital.
I took pics, but I don't have the thing that lets me put them on my computer (I'm semi-luddite).
There were a few bigots out, maybe 35-40? They were mostly quiet and just milled around chatting with each other.
On the west side of the capital, where the gay rights rally was happening, there were definitely more people, not a horde, but maybe 50-60? I had to leave just as it was starting and there were at least a dozen more people heading there as I left (the bigot crowd looked about the same size from when I got there to when I left).
The gay rights crowd was also definitely more vocal and organized and had signs and flags and stuff, and it's a good flag day because it's windy as shit here today. The bigots didn't have any signs or flags that I saw. Just them and their bibles and their strollers.
I took pics, but I don't have the thing that lets me put them on my computer (I'm semi-luddite).
There were a few bigots out, maybe 35-40? They were mostly quiet and just milled around chatting with each other.
On the west side of the capital, where the gay rights rally was happening, there were definitely more people, not a horde, but maybe 50-60? I had to leave just as it was starting and there were at least a dozen more people heading there as I left (the bigot crowd looked about the same size from when I got there to when I left).
The gay rights crowd was also definitely more vocal and organized and had signs and flags and stuff, and it's a good flag day because it's windy as shit here today. The bigots didn't have any signs or flags that I saw. Just them and their bibles and their strollers.
36
So if it passes will these "loving Christians" admit that prayer doesn't work? that god is indifferent to human prayers? that god favors same sex civil unions? or there is no god? If the bill passes, dear "Christians", those are the only options to explain it.
37
Recently I heard a conservative Christian radio program (I think it might have been from Focus on the Family) about the Biblical directive that wives submit to their husbands. I didn't know anyone still believed that, but evidently they do. The commentator took pains to present it as a reasonable and respectful relationship. He said that usually he and his spouse would talk things out and come to agreement, but in the rare situation where they simply disagreed and a decision must be made, he had to use his God-given authority to tell her to submit, a burden of responsibility that weighed heavily on him, etc.
For me it was a lightbulb moment. Finally I understood how gay marriage threatens traditional Christian marriage. If two gender-equals can have a successful marriage, without either one having the God-given authority to order the other around, then why should straight women go on taking orders from their husbands? Gay marriage threatens patriarchy. Another reason to support it.
For me it was a lightbulb moment. Finally I understood how gay marriage threatens traditional Christian marriage. If two gender-equals can have a successful marriage, without either one having the God-given authority to order the other around, then why should straight women go on taking orders from their husbands? Gay marriage threatens patriarchy. Another reason to support it.
38
Here's what I posted on their website. I doubt it will be approved by the moderator:
Archbishop Charles J. Chaput of Denver said that civil unions are “essentially marriage under another name” and the long-term impact of the legislation has not been fully discussed.
-------------------------
I really love this backtracking. All everyone has ever heard from religious people is, "Call it anything else, but don't call it marriage." Yes, we all know how sacred Rush Limbaugh's fourth marriage is. How could a gay couple ever compete with the sanctity of that? Now, religious people somehow have decided that they own the term "civil union" too. Even though they don't want the second-class status of civil unions for themselves. Who would? Gay people aren't even deserving of the meager crumbs of legal protection they provide. How Christian of them.
When was the last time anyone has heard a straight couple say that they can't wait to be "civil union-ed"? Civil unions are in no way, shape or form, marriage. Most states don't even recognize civil unions, and our government certainly doesn't. The fact that non-religious straight couples can get married at their city courthouse, makes the archbishop's claim that the church owns "marriage" a little hard to swallow.
As for "weakening the family structure of society". Can anyone explain how that happens? A gay couple is granted a civil union, then married couples within a 5 mile radius will suddenly start getting divorced? It's nothing more than slippery-slope rhetoric, with nothing to back up that claim.
Archbishop Charles J. Chaput of Denver said that civil unions are “essentially marriage under another name” and the long-term impact of the legislation has not been fully discussed.
-------------------------
I really love this backtracking. All everyone has ever heard from religious people is, "Call it anything else, but don't call it marriage." Yes, we all know how sacred Rush Limbaugh's fourth marriage is. How could a gay couple ever compete with the sanctity of that? Now, religious people somehow have decided that they own the term "civil union" too. Even though they don't want the second-class status of civil unions for themselves. Who would? Gay people aren't even deserving of the meager crumbs of legal protection they provide. How Christian of them.
When was the last time anyone has heard a straight couple say that they can't wait to be "civil union-ed"? Civil unions are in no way, shape or form, marriage. Most states don't even recognize civil unions, and our government certainly doesn't. The fact that non-religious straight couples can get married at their city courthouse, makes the archbishop's claim that the church owns "marriage" a little hard to swallow.
As for "weakening the family structure of society". Can anyone explain how that happens? A gay couple is granted a civil union, then married couples within a 5 mile radius will suddenly start getting divorced? It's nothing more than slippery-slope rhetoric, with nothing to back up that claim.
39
@29 Not sure how you managed to read that as breast-negative, 5280, lol.
@30 Always happy to send a lil mirth your way, Kim.
@30 Always happy to send a lil mirth your way, Kim.
40
Ahh, yes, Ephesians Chapter 5. The husband is the head of the wife or how to justify smacking your wife around to the pastor. Such a hurtful weapon, in my experience as a DV counselor.
41
Off topic, my apologies, SLOG. Blame my stupid photographic-ish memory and my collective love for you all.
My condolences, Fifty-Two-Eighty. I wish you joy today and everyday.
My condolences, Fifty-Two-Eighty. I wish you joy today and everyday.
42
Kim, totally agreed with you. I'm more inclined to believe that Spong, et al are the way they are despite their churches not because of them.
Outercow...@28 that may just show up as my signature line somewhere. :)
Outercow...@28 that may just show up as my signature line somewhere. :)
43
@42 just saw Spong speak last weekend, and from his history that does seem to be true.
Sometimes I think the Nebraska Methodist church created a dimensional tear when they sent 20 or so of us off to a youth camp called "Rainbow Camp" every summer, to sing songs and learn about the inclusivity of God.
Sometimes I think the Nebraska Methodist church created a dimensional tear when they sent 20 or so of us off to a youth camp called "Rainbow Camp" every summer, to sing songs and learn about the inclusivity of God.
46
Really? I thought it was just that they wanted you to keep your icky gross sex thing in back alleys "where it belongs". Where *all* sex belongs, of course.
I really don't think they put any more thought than that to it. It's not like they plot in smoky back rooms to deprive you of treating you like a human being, they just don't like that icky sex thing -- doubly so if that icky sex thing is "weird" by their standards. Theirs is an entirely irrational and emotional reaction, based entirely on prejudices instilled since birth. Which is why even educated and intelligent doctors still keep you out of emergency wards.
I really don't think they put any more thought than that to it. It's not like they plot in smoky back rooms to deprive you of treating you like a human being, they just don't like that icky sex thing -- doubly so if that icky sex thing is "weird" by their standards. Theirs is an entirely irrational and emotional reaction, based entirely on prejudices instilled since birth. Which is why even educated and intelligent doctors still keep you out of emergency wards.
48
I've had two completely tame, brief response posts denied on that CNA article. No profanity, no insults. They seem to moderate along some unspecified ideological line. I can't say I'm surprised, but it's a shame that reason has left the building.
49
They call themselves Christians, crap, I call them hypacrits....I was raised and told God created all usand he loves us....I can't help it I am a lesbian.Leave the man be with his partner.
I believe in God and I will not quit believeing he created me, no matter that I am lesbian.
Straight people are so worried about what we are ,don't hide from them, be proud and be at his side. Straights to me are so scared of us cause we have longer relationships and we show our love to one another better. Tell the Cristians to mind their own lives..
I believe in God and I will not quit believeing he created me, no matter that I am lesbian.
Straight people are so worried about what we are ,don't hide from them, be proud and be at his side. Straights to me are so scared of us cause we have longer relationships and we show our love to one another better. Tell the Cristians to mind their own lives..
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