Slog
News & ArtsThursday, March 31, 2011
The Ladies Indiana GOPer: Pregnant Women Will Lie About Rape to Get Abortions
Posted by Cienna Madrid on Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 9:10 AM
On Wednesday, House Representatives of the Indiana state considered a controversial anti-abortion bill, introduced by state Rep. Eric Turner (R), that would make abortions illegal in the state after 20 weeks. Representatives were also considering a bill amendment, proposed by Rep. Gail Riecken (D), that would make exceptions for “women who became pregnant due to rape or incest, or women for whom pregnancy threatens their life or could cause serious and irreversible physical harm."
You know, pretty common sense exceptions.
There's just one problem with the amendment, argued Turner, the original bill's sponsor: Women would then have a "giant loophole" where they could simply lie about being a rape or incest victim and procure an abortion anyway. After Turner's incredibly callous, wrong-headed argument (if he truly believes there will be an epidemic of Indiana women pretending to be raped by strangers or family members in order to get abortions, isn't that a striking testament of how vital access to the procedure is?), Rep. Linda Lawson (D)—who spent six years as a sex crimes investigator in Indiana—rightly freaks the fuck out:
But common sense loses again—Riecken's amendment was voted down 42 to 54. The anti-abortion bill itself passed the House overwhelmingly—72 votes in favor, 23 against.
Curtsies to mr. herriman for the tip.
1
For the life of me, I can't understand why this is even open for discussion. No, I am not now (and never have been) in favor of abortion as a means of birth control, but come on, it's not a fucking black-and-white issue.
Planned Parenthood is in my will. I'll leave it at that.
Planned Parenthood is in my will. I'll leave it at that.
3
Independents are overwhelmingly in favor of allowing abortion in rape and incest cases.
The GOP is doing a great job of whittling their potential voter base down to nothing.
The GOP is doing a great job of whittling their potential voter base down to nothing.
4
If we can't trust women not to lie about getting raped to get abortions, why are we still taking the risk of letting them vote or own property? We can't trust them to be good citizens, a uterus utterly precludes that possibility!
6
seeing this stuff over and over makes me want to incite bills in these states requiring young men to submit DNA sample along w/ selective services for paternity database. Each male in the database that fathers a child will be put on an 18 year probation-variant. Maybe dead-beat-dadness can affect your credit score. Make it heavy on a man like it's heavy on a woman.
8
Umm ... if we make abortion unavailable except in cases of rape or health emergencies, of course women will lie about rape to get abortions. There's a straightforward reason for this: many women need abortions, for reasons other than rape or medical emergencies. Given a bad set of choices--should I lie, or bring up a kid in poverty/an abuse situation?--many will likely pick "lie," and will justify it on the quaint theory that they are in charge of their own bodies. So this asshole is, indeed, a bold truth-teller. He's just a bold truth-teller who doesn't give a fuck about women and who doesn't value their rights.
9
@6 -- Seeing b.s. like this makes me want to propose bills in these states requiring ALL men to submit a DNA sample. Let the fucking Republican scum know that they're equal to women in being untrustworthy SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY HAVE DICKS. Apparently there is no level so low that a Republican won't stoop to it. If I still lived in Hammond (where I was born) I'd be down at Lawson's office handing them money for her next campaign.
11
Wow. I would figure that a woman in that case would have to come up with a pretty elaborate story in order to get an abortion. Once you say you are raped, doesn't it have to be reported by whatever agency? I know PP asks that question on the paperwork... "Are you here because you were raped?"
And then if you weren't, you have to make a bunch of shit up and hope it stands... and as a result make the world worse for real victims of rape and incest.
And then if you weren't, you have to make a bunch of shit up and hope it stands... and as a result make the world worse for real victims of rape and incest.
13
It passed the house. Assholes. http://www.indystar.com/article/20110331…|newswell|text|News|p
God I hate living in this fucking state.
God I hate living in this fucking state.
14
The only good republican is a dead republican; dead after their head's have been cut off in a public square.
The French had a really good idea in 1789 on how to handle the conservatives in their country back then
The French had a really good idea in 1789 on how to handle the conservatives in their country back then
16
Um, so... I'm going to probably get flamed to all hell for this, but I think Turner has a point, although he doesn't really know it.
Disclaimer: I support first-trimester abortion rights and believe that government funding should be made available for abortions just like any other healthcare procedure, BUT...
If the only way a woman can afford to get an abortion is if she claims that she was raped, then this clause would be specifically encouraging women to make false rape claims. Turner frames that as an issue of people defrauding the state, but I'm more worried about the false claims themselves. False rape accusations can have tremendously damaging consequences for the falsely accused, even if they're never convicted.
Furthermore, Lawson's argument is provably false. There *are* women who lie about rape. They may not be the same people Lawson has worked with as a sex crimes investigator, but it happens, and we can't assume that everyone who makes a rape accusation is telling the truth.
Again, I think this whole argument is foolish, because women should have access to affordable healthcare, including abortion services, regardless of the circumstances of conception. It's just that, regarding this one issue, I think it's a little less black-and-white than Cienna and Rep. Lawson are making it out to be.
Disclaimer: I support first-trimester abortion rights and believe that government funding should be made available for abortions just like any other healthcare procedure, BUT...
If the only way a woman can afford to get an abortion is if she claims that she was raped, then this clause would be specifically encouraging women to make false rape claims. Turner frames that as an issue of people defrauding the state, but I'm more worried about the false claims themselves. False rape accusations can have tremendously damaging consequences for the falsely accused, even if they're never convicted.
Furthermore, Lawson's argument is provably false. There *are* women who lie about rape. They may not be the same people Lawson has worked with as a sex crimes investigator, but it happens, and we can't assume that everyone who makes a rape accusation is telling the truth.
Again, I think this whole argument is foolish, because women should have access to affordable healthcare, including abortion services, regardless of the circumstances of conception. It's just that, regarding this one issue, I think it's a little less black-and-white than Cienna and Rep. Lawson are making it out to be.
17
@8 and 16,
This bill only bans abortions after 20 weeks, which is pretty fucking far along in pregnancy. A vanishingly small number of abortions are performed that late, and effectively all of them are performed for health reasons. Women have little to no motivation to lie about rape or incest to be eligible for an abortion under this law.
And it's the Republicans who want rape or incest victims to be forced to make frape accusations with the police/DA's office in order to qualify for abortion at ANY stage in the pregnancy. It's Republicans who are begging for an increase in formal allegations, real or false.
This bill only bans abortions after 20 weeks, which is pretty fucking far along in pregnancy. A vanishingly small number of abortions are performed that late, and effectively all of them are performed for health reasons. Women have little to no motivation to lie about rape or incest to be eligible for an abortion under this law.
And it's the Republicans who want rape or incest victims to be forced to make frape accusations with the police/DA's office in order to qualify for abortion at ANY stage in the pregnancy. It's Republicans who are begging for an increase in formal allegations, real or false.
19
@16 Sure there are women who lie about being raped, but we absolutely CAN and fucking SHOULD assume every rape victim is telling the truth. Anyone caught making a false rape accusation should be punished accordingly, but saying we can't assume every rape victim is telling the truth is only going to discourage rape victims from coming forward. To not take every rape accusation seriously is to not take rape seriously.
20
Eventually, Amerika will split and become Balkanized. Why am I certain of this (aside from Cienna's article posted above)?
Because once upon a time, Zbigniew Brzezinski claimed the opposite would take place -- and that stupid mofo has been 100% wrong with all his predictions.
Indiana is the state which leads the nation in privatization: privatization of their water supply, government services, police, etc., etc., ad nauseum, which is why they are so deep in the doo doo today (did they ever re-start all that public transit they ended back in 2008 -- when they couldn't afford buses to run in their major cities????).
People I have met from Indiana generally have the IQ of a flea -- although fleas tend to be more articulate than Indianans.
And to those who wish to financially support Planned Parenthood -- first ask yourself this:
If they were sooo effective, how did we end up in this place? How do we end up continuously fighting the same battles over and over and over again?
Because, Planned Parenthood (the concept of which I am 100% for, just not those warped outfits) at the national level works hand-in-hand with the US Chamber of Commerce, just as at the city level, the Greater Seattle Chamber of Commerce has industriously worked to offshore as many local jobs as possible over the past twenty years.
They've rigged the game completely --- only there are still fools out there who are easily horn-swoggled (as in scammed, shammed and flim-flamed).
I cringe whenever I hear some douchebag in their 30s, 40s, or god-help-us, 50s, proclaim:
"I'm a liberal.....I listen to NPR!" Holy Mother of Godzilla! When the Egyptian revolution as at its peak, the national NPR was reporting it was quickly on the wane!
When workers were fleeing Libya, and reporting back in their home countries of Germany, Turkey, France and Egypt, that Gadhaffi was brining in mercenaries to murder his citizenry, NPR -- again at the national level -- brought on people to "DEBUNK" such reportage from overseas and Al Jazeera.
Holy Mother of Godzilla! When will the Ameritard ever learn???
Doesn't matter, it's too late now........
More...
Because once upon a time, Zbigniew Brzezinski claimed the opposite would take place -- and that stupid mofo has been 100% wrong with all his predictions.
Indiana is the state which leads the nation in privatization: privatization of their water supply, government services, police, etc., etc., ad nauseum, which is why they are so deep in the doo doo today (did they ever re-start all that public transit they ended back in 2008 -- when they couldn't afford buses to run in their major cities????).
People I have met from Indiana generally have the IQ of a flea -- although fleas tend to be more articulate than Indianans.
And to those who wish to financially support Planned Parenthood -- first ask yourself this:
If they were sooo effective, how did we end up in this place? How do we end up continuously fighting the same battles over and over and over again?
Because, Planned Parenthood (the concept of which I am 100% for, just not those warped outfits) at the national level works hand-in-hand with the US Chamber of Commerce, just as at the city level, the Greater Seattle Chamber of Commerce has industriously worked to offshore as many local jobs as possible over the past twenty years.
They've rigged the game completely --- only there are still fools out there who are easily horn-swoggled (as in scammed, shammed and flim-flamed).
I cringe whenever I hear some douchebag in their 30s, 40s, or god-help-us, 50s, proclaim:
"I'm a liberal.....I listen to NPR!" Holy Mother of Godzilla! When the Egyptian revolution as at its peak, the national NPR was reporting it was quickly on the wane!
When workers were fleeing Libya, and reporting back in their home countries of Germany, Turkey, France and Egypt, that Gadhaffi was brining in mercenaries to murder his citizenry, NPR -- again at the national level -- brought on people to "DEBUNK" such reportage from overseas and Al Jazeera.
Holy Mother of Godzilla! When will the Ameritard ever learn???
Doesn't matter, it's too late now........
21
I see nothing to feel confident about from all the ultra-lamer comments at this post.
Everyone begins arguing about the inane reframing by the bankster class lackeys, instead of arguing about how such a situation could ever arise in Amerika!
That's the prob: the Ameritard is soooo easily fooled and distracted and misdirected.
Don't always allow them to frame the discussion and non-debate, Vagina People!
Get your pathetic pinheads out of your butts and THINK, for a change!
Everyone begins arguing about the inane reframing by the bankster class lackeys, instead of arguing about how such a situation could ever arise in Amerika!
That's the prob: the Ameritard is soooo easily fooled and distracted and misdirected.
Don't always allow them to frame the discussion and non-debate, Vagina People!
Get your pathetic pinheads out of your butts and THINK, for a change!
22
@17: Noted. I'd be fine with the clause if it allowed a woman to make a rape claim without being forced to name or prosecute her supposed rapist. If they wanted to (and I would encourage them to), they obviously could, but in the case of a woman falsely claiming that she has been raped, no one else gets harmed in the process. Pushing for an increase in formal allegations is basically what I'm against.
@19: That's not how our justice system works. Taking a rape claim seriously is not the same as assuming the victim is telling the truth. Once a claim has been made, an investigation ensues, because the defendant also has rights that must be protected. You say yourself that anyone caught making a false accusation should be punished (they usually aren't), but how would you even separate the false from the true if you assume they're all true from the start?
@19: That's not how our justice system works. Taking a rape claim seriously is not the same as assuming the victim is telling the truth. Once a claim has been made, an investigation ensues, because the defendant also has rights that must be protected. You say yourself that anyone caught making a false accusation should be punished (they usually aren't), but how would you even separate the false from the true if you assume they're all true from the start?
23
@22
Rapes are already under reported in this country and women are still put through the wringer when they come forward. We should assume they are true because they could be true. If we assume they're false right away then the investigation will go nowhere and the woman, if she was raped, will be even more traumatized. It's called an investigation and proof. If she lied, she deserves to be punished. There still should be a honest investigation into it without a rolling of eyes or half hearted attitude.
Rapes are already under reported in this country and women are still put through the wringer when they come forward. We should assume they are true because they could be true. If we assume they're false right away then the investigation will go nowhere and the woman, if she was raped, will be even more traumatized. It's called an investigation and proof. If she lied, she deserves to be punished. There still should be a honest investigation into it without a rolling of eyes or half hearted attitude.
24
Either way you spin it, this is just another way of putting the burden on the woman, whether she's a victim of rape and/or incest, or someone exercising her right to family planning. Men—legislators or otherwise—should have no part in this decision.
25
@6 Do guys still register for Selective Service? With a couple of wars going on and all, you'd think there'd be a low registration rate.
28
Thanks for all of your posts and good work Cienna. I'm volunteering with Naral Pro-Choice Washington because I'm so tired of feeling upset about this.
29
Great expression of the woman--who I think is Gail Riecken--behind Rep. Turner at :38 and thereafter. Her eyes are about to bug out of her head.
30
@17: Since an anatomical screen ultrasound usually happens at 20-22 weeks, that's exactly when a lot of people will discover that their child has a disability for which they're not prepared or which isn't compatible with life. Abortion because of a fetus's disability isn't politically popular, but since parenting a severely disabled kid is, statistically, financially and maritally ruinous, I can completely understand why someone wouldn't want to do it. (And plenty of reasonable women wouldn't want to carry around a fetus for an extra 20 weeks knowing that it would die shortly after birth. Twenty weeks IS far along, but the next twenty are just as long.) Sure, there are plenty of things you can't know about until a baby is born, or later, but I think the more prenatal screening available, the better, but it's not so great if no one is able to act on that information.
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
SL Letter of the Day: Outside the Gay Bar by Dan Savage
-
Lunchtime Quickie: Cyclist vs Car by Kelly O
-
SL Letter of the Day: Infantile-ism by Dan Savage
-
SL Letter of the Day: Lying Liars by Dan Savage
-
What Did an ESPN Blogger call the Asian American Baller Lin? by Charles Mudede
-
Walmart Tries to Pay Workers in Walmart Vouchers by Paul Constant
-
Why I'm Suing Attorney James Egan by Pete Holmes
-
Pharmacy Can Refuse Women Emergency Contraceptives, Judge Rules by Cienna Madrid
-
What Do You Think of Microsoft Office for the iPad? by Paul Constant
-
Have You Gayed Your Dead Mormon Today? by Anthony Hecht
RSS
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (30) RSS